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Re: AFC (Automatic Feed Control) for continuous strippers

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  • gff_stwrt
    Hi, folks. Riku, unfortunately we are not allowed to produce alcohol, even from a little still. We can use it for distilling essential oils, or purifying water
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 1, 2008
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      Hi, folks.

      Riku, unfortunately we are not allowed to produce alcohol, even from
      a little still.

      We can use it for distilling essential oils, or purifying water and
      stuff like that.

      Regards,

      The Baker

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Billy,
      >
      > This is IMO relevant to our hobby. The system I described can not
      be
      > used for industrial scale stills as the boiling in bigger tube
      will
      > not cause enough spilling to make it work. Rather it would be
      quite
      > nice for some of our Australian friends who are limited to 5 liter
      > boilers by law.

      snip
      >
      > Cheers, Riku
      >
      >
    • mavnkaf
      ... quite ... rises ... flows ... fed ... untill ... column. ... Hi Riku, First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ spirits tonight, thanks
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 2, 2008
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I was asked about AFC so I thought I'll post my answer in here as
        well:
        >
        > AFC is/was studied in swedish and norwegian forums so I don't think
        > there's any thorough explanations in english. The principle is
        quite
        > simple. We have a reservoir for mash where the liquid level is kept
        > constant (circulating pump works for that). For that reservoir mash
        > goes to a pipe that goes into column close to the bottom. It then
        rises
        > up to the top of the packing. The reservoir is located so that the
        > liquid level is the same is pipe length - ie. normally nothing
        flows
        > out of the pipe. Now when the temperature at the lower parts of the
        > column rises above the boiling point of the mash the mash starts to
        > boil and spurts mash to the top of the packing. When enough mash is
        fed
        > the temperature at the lower parts of the column drops and boiling
        > ceases. This stops the feed and temperature starts to rise again
        untill
        > boiling starts again. Strippate is collected from the top of the
        column.
        >
        > Cheers, Riku
        >


        Hi Riku,

        First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ spirits
        tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who they
        are, Thank you!!! ;0

        Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion a
        little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
        comming).

        My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The wash
        feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go and
        it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.

        There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have column
        packing, right?

        Cheers
        Marc
      • mavnkaf
        ... think ... kept ... mash ... the ... the ... to ... is ... boiling ... spirits ... and ... column ... I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 2, 2008
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > I was asked about AFC so I thought I'll post my answer in here as
          > well:
          > >
          > > AFC is/was studied in swedish and norwegian forums so I don't
          think
          > > there's any thorough explanations in english. The principle is
          > quite
          > > simple. We have a reservoir for mash where the liquid level is
          kept
          > > constant (circulating pump works for that). For that reservoir
          mash
          > > goes to a pipe that goes into column close to the bottom. It then
          > rises
          > > up to the top of the packing. The reservoir is located so that
          the
          > > liquid level is the same is pipe length - ie. normally nothing
          > flows
          > > out of the pipe. Now when the temperature at the lower parts of
          the
          > > column rises above the boiling point of the mash the mash starts
          to
          > > boil and spurts mash to the top of the packing. When enough mash
          is
          > fed
          > > the temperature at the lower parts of the column drops and
          boiling
          > > ceases. This stops the feed and temperature starts to rise again
          > untill
          > > boiling starts again. Strippate is collected from the top of the
          > column.
          > >
          > > Cheers, Riku
          > >
          >
          >
          > Hi Riku,
          >
          > First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ
          spirits
          > tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who they
          > are, Thank you!!! ;0
          >
          > Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion a
          > little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
          > comming).
          >
          > My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The wash
          > feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go
          and
          > it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.
          >
          > There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have
          column
          > packing, right?
          >
          > Cheers
          > Marc
          >


          I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack a column that
          has a tube up the guts of it? ( middle). So the colunm must be
          modular right? Have the abiltity to be pulled apart? Right?

          Cherrs
          Marc
        • Arsene Lupin
          ... Continuous columns are difficult to design and understand, I suggest you implement ARC & AFC in the continuous column once you are aquainted with the
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 2, 2008
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            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I was asked about AFC so I thought I'll post my answer in here as
            > > well:
            > > >
            > > > AFC is/was studied in swedish and norwegian forums so I don't
            > think
            > > > there's any thorough explanations in english. The principle is
            > > quite
            > > > simple. We have a reservoir for mash where the liquid level is
            > kept
            > > > constant (circulating pump works for that). For that reservoir
            > mash
            > > > goes to a pipe that goes into column close to the bottom. It then
            > > rises
            > > > up to the top of the packing. The reservoir is located so that
            > the
            > > > liquid level is the same is pipe length - ie. normally nothing
            > > flows
            > > > out of the pipe. Now when the temperature at the lower parts of
            > the
            > > > column rises above the boiling point of the mash the mash starts
            > to
            > > > boil and spurts mash to the top of the packing. When enough mash
            > is
            > > fed
            > > > the temperature at the lower parts of the column drops and
            > boiling
            > > > ceases. This stops the feed and temperature starts to rise again
            > > untill
            > > > boiling starts again. Strippate is collected from the top of the
            > > column.
            > > >
            > > > Cheers, Riku
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Riku,
            > >
            > > First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ
            > spirits
            > > tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who they
            > > are, Thank you!!! ;0
            > >
            > > Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion a
            > > little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
            > > comming).
            > >
            > > My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The wash
            > > feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go
            > and
            > > it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.
            > >
            > > There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have
            > column
            > > packing, right?
            > >
            > > Cheers
            > > Marc
            > >
            >
            >
            > I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack a column that
            > has a tube up the guts of it? ( middle). So the colunm must be
            > modular right? Have the abiltity to be pulled apart? Right?
            >
            > Cherrs
            > Marc
            >
            Continuous columns are difficult to design and understand, I suggest
            you implement ARC & AFC in the continuous column once you are
            aquainted with the basics. Moreover there is a sizing issue.
            Build you stripper, see the ABV you can get with 100C in the boiler
            with your desired wash flow. THEN you may implement ARC & AFC.

            I would like to add that continuous strippers are interesting because
            they allow for energy reuse which seems like a point of design often
            overlooked. If you dont reuse energy, the benefit is very limited,
            you'll trade boiler size for column height, aquarium pump and a lot of
            headache.

            About packing, the AFC may be more or less intrusive but will allow
            packing (just push the scrubbers from the other side of the tube).
          • abbababbaccc
            ... they ... a ... wash ... that ... You make a doughnut out of a potscrubber and put that around the AFC pipe and push it down. In case of AFC you need to be
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 2, 2008
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@> wrote:
              > >> >
              > >
              > > Hi Riku,
              > >
              > > First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ
              > spirits
              > > tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who
              they
              > > are, Thank you!!! ;0
              > >
              > > Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion
              a
              > > little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
              > > comming).
              > >
              > > My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The
              wash
              > > feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go
              > and
              > > it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.
              > >
              > > There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have
              > column
              > > packing, right?
              > >
              > > Cheers
              > > Marc
              > >
              >
              >
              > I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack a column
              that
              > has a tube up the guts of it? ( middle). So the colunm must be
              > modular right? Have the abiltity to be pulled apart? Right?
              >
              > Cherrs
              > Marc
              >


              You make a doughnut out of a potscrubber and put that around the AFC
              pipe and push it down. In case of AFC you need to be able to open the
              column from top and from bottom to achieve proper packing. You could
              use copper mesh as well but SS potsrcubbers will not corrode.

              Cheers, Riku
            • Trid
              Just a bit of information regarding various control valves. It can be useful for following technical converstations/topics as well as background information
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 2, 2008
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                Just a bit of information regarding various control valves. It can be useful
                for following technical converstations/topics as well as background information
                for more advanced tinkering.

                http://www.kele.com/olcat/CV12/Valve_Selection_Terminology.pdf

                Trid
                -ever tinkering
              • mavnkaf
                Thanks Riku and Arsene for the replys, abit a late I know. I got a quick question about the AFC tube size and the length of the tube, when it is inside the 50
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 11, 2008
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                  Thanks Riku and Arsene for the replys, abit a late I know.

                  I got a quick question about the AFC tube size and the length of the
                  tube, when it is inside the 50 mm x 800 mm column, just keep in mind
                  the still will be only used as a continuous wash stripper for low
                  wines aiming for about 65%, I hope.

                  Cheers
                  Marc




                  "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>

                  You make a doughnut out of a potscrubber and put that around the AFC
                  pipe and push it down. In case of AFC you need to be able to open the
                  column from top and from bottom to achieve proper packing. You could
                  use copper mesh as well but SS potsrcubbers will not corrode.

                  Cheers, Riku

                  …………………………………………………………………

                  "Arsene Lupin" <ragnagna75012@...>

                  Continuous columns are difficult to design and understand, I suggest
                  you implement ARC & AFC in the continuous column once you are
                  aquainted with the basics. Moreover there is a sizing issue.
                  Build you stripper, see the ABV you can get with 100C in the boiler
                  with your desired wash flow. THEN you may implement ARC & AFC.

                  I would like to add that continuous strippers are interesting because
                  they allow for energy reuse which seems like a point of design often
                  overlooked. If you dont reuse energy, the benefit is very limited,
                  you'll trade boiler size for column height, aquarium pump and a lot of
                  headache.

                  About packing, the AFC may be more or less intrusive but will allow
                  packing (just push the scrubbers from the other side of the tube).
                • abbababbaccc
                  8mm pipe, 80cm long has been tested in one meter column (IIRC)- Cheers, Riku
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 12, 2008
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                    8mm pipe, 80cm long has been tested in one meter column (IIRC)-

                    Cheers, Riku

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks Riku and Arsene for the replys, abit a late I know.
                    >
                    > I got a quick question about the AFC tube size and the length of the
                    > tube, when it is inside the 50 mm x 800 mm column, just keep in mind
                    > the still will be only used as a continuous wash stripper for low
                    > wines aiming for about 65%, I hope.
                    >
                    > Cheers
                    > Marc
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • mavnkaf
                    Thanks Riku, I thought it may have been 8 mm because I ve read you used 8 mm for the ARC set up. Now for the next step of the feed tank, which I think I have
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 17, 2008
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                      Thanks Riku, I thought it may have been 8 mm because I've read you
                      used 8 mm for the ARC set up.

                      Now for the next step of the feed tank, which I think I have got
                      worked out. I'm going to preheat the wash to 40 c with a fish tank
                      heater and use a small float valve (for gravity feed), that I found at
                      a pet store, its low pressure and deals with low volumes of water or in
                      my case, wash.

                      Cheers
                      Marc

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > 8mm pipe, 80cm long has been tested in one meter column (IIRC)-
                      >
                      > Cheers, Riku
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