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Re: Mig/Tig welding a lid?

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  • Harry
    ... Joining of Copper Components Copper and Copper alloys are more readily joined than most other materials used in engineering. Although 90% of Copper based
    Message 1 of 11 , May 14 1:33 AM
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      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Runnels <dougrunnels@...> wrote:
      >
      > I was trying to go cheep. Silver solder sticks are expensive here now.
      > Juat trying to find a cheeper way to do it. I can weld, braze,
      > solder, etc: I just don't know the required combinations of different
      > metals to combine together.
      > So I guess simple brass will not braze copper to copper?

      Joining of Copper Components
       
      Copper and Copper alloys are more readily joined than most other materials used in engineering.
      Although 90% of Copper based components are assembled using conventional welding and
      brazing techniques, they can be successfully joined using every known joining process.
      When welding, soldering or brazing Copper the joint must be clean and free of dirt, grease
      or paint.

      Soldering

      Soldering can be divided into two methods:
      Soft soldering using alloys that melt below 350°C
      Hard soldering using stronger, high melting point alloys
       
      In regard to soldering Copper alloys, hard soldering is often referred to as Silver soldering.
       
      Soft soldering normally uses Tin based solders for joining Copper and brass when
      high mechanical strength is not required. The method is commonly used for joining Copper in
      domestic electrical and plumbing applications. Brazing
      With the exception of alloys containing more than around 10 per cent Aluminium or 3 per cent
      Lead, brazing can be used to join all Copper alloys. Brazing is particularly popular for joining Copper components used in building, heating, ventilation, air-conditioning and the manufacturing of electronic products.

      Welding

      Copper alloys are readily welded using all common welding techniques including:
      Arc welding
      Gas-shielded arc welding
      Tungsten inert gas (TIG) welding
      Metal inert gas (MIG) welding
      Plasma arc welding
      Pulsed-current MIG welding
      Electron Beam welding
      Laser welding
      Friction welding
      Ultrasonic welding


      Bolting and Riveting
       
      Copper and all Copper alloys can be successfully bolted or riveted. However
      consideration must be given to the material used in the bolts or rivets. As Copper is
      often chosen for its corrosion resistance, the material used in the bolts and rivets
      should be made from the same or similar material to that being joined.
      For roofing applications, Copper nails are preferred but brass or stainless steel can be
      substituted. Mechanical joining like bolting and riveting may induce localised areas of high stress,which could induce failure in the component. Replacing the mechanical joint with adhesivebonding can eliminate this. Adhesive bonding can also be used in conjunction with mechanicalbonding.


      Adhesive Bonding

      With consideration given to joint design so there is an adequate overlap on the joint
      area, Copper and Copper alloys can be successfully joined using adhesive bonding.
      As Copper and Copper alloys form a protective surface oxide layer, the surfaces
      must be cleaned before the adhesive is applied.


      Finishing

      Copper components can be finished in a vast variety of ways. The finish used for
      any given Copper component is dependent upon function and/or aesthetics. Copper naturally forms a protective oxide layer on exposure to the elements. This layer isnormally blue – green and may or may not be desirable.

      The blue – green patina develops over time but its development can be enhanced andaccelerated by the use of commercially available oxidising agents.
      If the tarnished patina of Copper is not desirable, the material can be protected using
      a lacquer coating. An acrylic coating with benzotriazole as an additive will last
      several years under most outdoor, abrasion-free conditions.


      Painting

      In most instances Copper and Copper alloys do not require painting. The inherent
      properties of Copper resist corrosion and biofouling.

      Painting of Copper is occasionally done for aesthetic reasons. It is also done to reduce
      the incidence of metal to metal contact of bimetallic couples where galvanic corrosion might
      be a problem.

      Before painting Copper, the surface of the material should be roughened by grit or
      sand blasting. Other specific procedures will depend upon the type of paint being used.
      Please consult the paint manufacturer for details.

       

      Cleaning and Polishing Copper

      The best way to keep Copper clean is to not allow it to get dirty in the first place.
      Where possible, decorative items should be kept clean and free of dust. Many
      decorativecopper items are coated with lacquer to protect the finish. Other than
      dusting, for these items occasional washing with luke warm, soapy water may be
      required. They should never be polished as this may remove the protective lacquer.
      To remove tarnish from Copper cookware, simply rub with lemon halves dipped in salt.
      Tarnish can be removed from Copper in industrial applications using commercial
      copper polishes. These polishes should be applied following the manufacturers
      instructions.

      If a brushed finish is required on Copper or copper alloys, stainless steel brushes must
      be used to eliminate cross contamination.

       

      Slainte!
      regards Harry

    • billy.turf
      I was thinking of welding a colom to a lid. But the most important question would be, is it safe? Is there some possibility that dangerious substances are
      Message 2 of 11 , May 14 7:35 AM
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        I was thinking of welding a colom to a lid. But the most important
        question would be, is it safe? Is there some possibility that
        dangerious substances are going to enter my mash if I want to weld a
        portal into the side of the boiler, you know just to be able to see
        what's going on. Or weld the colom to the lid just because it's the
        cheapest and surest way to fasten something.
      • Trid
        ... I mis-spoke. What I meant to say was that I simply soldered it all together with sliver bearing, lead free plumbing solder and a propane torch. It works
        Message 3 of 11 , May 14 10:36 AM
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          --- Doug Runnels <dougrunnels@...> wrote:

          > I was trying to go cheep. Silver solder sticks are expensive here now.
          > Juat trying to find a cheeper way to do it. I can weld, braze,
          > solder, etc: I just don't know the required combinations of different
          > metals to combine together.
          > So I guess simple brass will not braze copper to copper?
          >
          > Trid wrote:
          > >Simple silver soldering worked just fine for me when I made my shotgun
          > >condenser.

          I mis-spoke. What I meant to say was that I simply soldered it all together
          with sliver bearing, lead free plumbing solder and a propane torch. It works
          fantastic without having to get as involved as brazing or welding. Besides, it
          doesn't get much cheaper than that.

          Trid
        • jamesonbeam1
          Again, re-read Harry s post on this topic and only use materials that are compatible with copper / stainless and have no lead or celsium, etc. in them.
          Message 4 of 11 , May 14 11:07 AM
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            Again, re-read Harry's post on this topic and only use materials that
            are compatible with copper / stainless and have no lead or celsium,
            etc. in them. Personally, I dont see why using one of those sink
            type couplings, as used on the Bokakob still design would not
            suffice, unless your using different sized tubing for you column (not
            colom - sounds like something in the digestive track :):):). Also
            look at the World Class Still Design at:
            http://www.moonshine-still.com/

            Vino es Veritas,
            Jim.



            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billy.turf" <billy.turf@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I was thinking of welding a colom to a lid. But the most important
            > question would be, is it safe? Is there some possibility that
            > dangerious substances are going to enter my mash if I want to weld
            a
            > portal into the side of the boiler, you know just to be able to see
            > what's going on. Or weld the colom to the lid just because it's the
            > cheapest and surest way to fasten something.
            >
          • rye_junkie
            ... I havent paid much attention to this thread but I agree with Jim here. A couple of months ago I picked up a 14 round piece of 1/8 SS plate. With a boring
            Message 5 of 11 , May 15 6:36 AM
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Again, re-read Harry's post on this topic and only use materials that
              > are compatible with copper / stainless and have no lead or celsium,
              > etc. in them. Personally, I dont see why using one of those sink
              > type couplings, as used on the Bokakob still design would not
              > suffice, unless your using different sized tubing for you column (not
              > colom - sounds like something in the digestive track :):):). Also
              > look at the World Class Still Design at:
              > http://www.moonshine-still.com/
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              > Jim.

              I havent paid much attention to this thread but I agree with Jim here.
              A couple of months ago I picked up a 14" round piece of 1/8" SS plate.
              With a boring Head in a milling machine I machined a hole for a SS
              sink strainer from lowes. I dont even have to use a gasket for this
              connection any more. The Beauty of the Strainer it that I now have a
              boiler cap That I can Attach a Pot, Reflux CM, or my new offset head
              to simply by screwing one of them to it. Just my thoughts. I realize
              everyone does not have access to this type of equipment but a good
              Hole saw from the H ware store or a trip to your local machine or
              welding shop will accomplish the same thing. It is very versatile.

              Mason
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