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Re: 160 proof in a pot still?

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  • gff_stwrt
    (--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, mstehelin wrote:) ... Thanks, M , for your reply; thanks also to Jameson (Message 42087) and duds
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 7, 2008
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      (--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...>
      wrote:)


      >Hi, folks,

      Thanks, M , for your reply; thanks also to Jameson (Message 42087)
      and duds (Message 42088).

      What I plan to do in the first place is to freeze the wine (in
      around 10 x 10-litre buckets) in the walk-in freezer at work. I will
      take it out and strain out the ice before it is frozen (more or
      less) solid.
      I have done this before and to me it seems a lot easier. I have
      some supermarket vegetable bins a bit bigger than 2' x 1' x 1' high,
      with 1/8 holes at 1" centres in the bottom, and they make great
      strainers!

      I will probably do this twice; I hope in this way to end up with
      less water but retain almost all of the alcohol and the flavour.

      In the week or so that this takes I will think about your ideas
      and plan how to distill the wine.

      Here are some (more or less random) thoughts about it:

      * It will already be 'partly distilled' because of the freezing so
      maybe I will only put it through the still once

      * After the first run I could (after throwing out the foreshots)put
      the feints (heads-and-tails) or part of the feints into the next run
      (making cuts is something I have to learn more about from
      experience)

      * Because I have quite a lot of wine, I could leave out altogether
      any part of the heads, and the tails, that don't have any trace of
      the nice aroma, and put them in as feints into the next few 'second
      runs' of more ordinary stuff.
      (I like the idea (pint's?) of eventually adding a doubler to my
      still and making vodka with the pot still on the third (?)run
      through)

      But would some of the stuff I left out have been important to the
      brandy when it is mature? (Like wine, where the acid and the tannin
      are important as well as the flavour/aroma?)

      * I will also look up some of the information on our site on
      disitlling fruit wines as I guess retaining the aroma is important
      there too.

      Again thank you all, you have given me a lot to think about.
      If anyone else has any ideas please tell me about them.

      Regards,
      The Baker

      >
      > Mr. Baker,
      > When you distill x2 you not only increase alcohol content, but you
      > increase flavour. I Recommend that you re-use heads and tails as
      per
      > your plan. You might find that the flavours become very strong
      almost
      > like a whiskey, when aged on oak. Pint-o-shine had a pretty good
      post
      > regarding blending different cuts from the same run. It was a
      reply
      > to a post so you might have to search his posts.
      > Cheers
      > M
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi, folks,
      > >
      > > (snip)
      > > I have just been given over 100 litres of lightish red wine,
      a
      > > few years old in bottles, sour and not much tannnin and barely
      > > drinkable as wine. But the first lot through the still (after
      the
      > > foreshots and a small amount of heads) was quite strong in
      alcohol
      > > (over 60% is my guess, I have mislaid my test equipment while
      > > renovating) and had a very attractive aroma from the wine.
      > > What is the best way to keep some of this aroma and
      flavour in
      > > the brandy? I am not very experienced but to me this may end up
      as
      > > something special.
      > >
      > > I am thinking of taking the hearts out of the first run,
      and
      > > putting the little bit of heads and most of the tails into the
      > > next 'first' run.
      > > What do you think?
      > >
      > > Thanks for your help,
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > >
      > > The Baker
      > >
      > >
      > >
    • jamesonbeam1
      Hey Baker, what your talking about is called jacking - I made applejack like that when I was in college. However, you must have a cold enough temp to get the
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 8, 2008
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        Hey Baker,

        what your talking about is called "jacking" - I made applejack like that when I was in college.

        However, you must have a cold enough temp to get the alcohol up.  Read this:

         

        MAKING APPLEJACK

        The features that make Applejack different from hard cider or

        apple wine is that it has a higher concentration of alcohol. It

        can be as high as 30% alcohol or 60 proof. Also, the apple

        flavor is more intense or concentrated.

        Applejack is made by storing completely finished apple wine at
        below freezing temperatures. What happens is the water that is
        in the apple wine freezes and rises to the top while the alcohol
        stays in liquid form - a process known as fractional crystal-
        lization.


        The following will give you an idea of how concentrated the alcohol can become at a given temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until the liquid
        reaches 14% alcohol by volume. At 10 below ice will form until it
        reaches 20%. At 20 below 27% can be made. And, at 30 below

        33% alcohol can be obtained.

        Applejack was very popular among the New England colonies.
        Barrels of apple wine would be set out in sheds during January
        and February when the temperatures where blistering cold. And,

        by first thaw it would be ready to drink.

         

        As you can see Baker, unless your freezer is -30 F you will not get more then 33% abv regardless of how many times you repeat this process...

         

        From: http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html

         

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim.

        >Hi, folks,

        Thanks, M , for your reply; thanks also to Jameson (Message 42087)
        and duds (Message 42088).

        What I plan to do in the first place is to freeze the wine (in
        around 10 x 10-litre buckets) in the walk-in freezer at work. I will
        take it out and strain out the ice before it is frozen (more or
        less) solid.
        I have done this before and to me it seems a lot easier. I have
        some supermarket vegetable bins a bit bigger than 2' x 1' x 1' high,
        with 1/8 holes at 1" centres in the bottom, and they make great
        strainers!

        I will probably do this twice; I hope in this way to end up with
        less water but retain almost all of the alcohol and the flavour.
        ___snip____
      • gff_stwrt
        ... like that ... concentrated the alcohol can become at a given temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until the liquid reaches 14% alcohol by volume.
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 9, 2008
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hey Baker,
          >
          > what your talking about is called "jacking" - I made applejack
          like that
          > when I was in college.
          >
          > However, you must have a cold enough temp to get the
          alcohol up. Read this:
          >
          > snip
          >
          > > The following will give you an idea of how
          concentrated the alcohol can become at a given
          temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until
          the liquid reaches 14% alcohol by volume.

          snip

          > Vino es Veritas,
          >
          > Jim.

          Hi, folks, and thanks Jim, that's really interesting.
          The freezer is around zero degrees F., but the wine
          is not very high alcohol, my guess would be around 9%.
          But say it was 100 litres at 10% ( 10 l. of alcohol
          and 90 l. of water)and the abv was increased to 15%
          (it's close and the math is easier):
          I would still have (in theory and ignoring losses)
          the same amount of alcohol (ten litres) but much less
          water and so, less in total to distill.
          A total of 66 l. of wine @15% alcohol gives the same
          10 l. of alcohol and 56 l. of water; which is 36 l.
          less water, and of course 36 l. less total volume.

          Anyway I think that's right.

          And hopefully with the same aroma compounds.

          So I think it will be well worth the effort although
          The abv will still not be high.

          Thanks again for the interesting data
          Regards,

          The Baker
        • jamesonbeam1
          Actually Baker, The flavors are more intensified, since fractional crystal- lization will just take the water out - not take out flavors - as does distilling.
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 9, 2008
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            Actually Baker,

            The flavors are more intensified, since fractional crystal-
            lization will just take the water out - not take out flavors - as
            does distilling.

            At 0 degrees F you should also be able to get out around 14% abv
            regardless of what the starting abv is. You can only get more abv
            out if you go below 0 degrees F. When I crank up my freezer to high
            and get it around -15 degrees F, i can usually increase the abv from
            like 12% to 22% or around there - least thats what i calculate from
            the amount of distillate vs amount of mash using a pot still.

            Vino es Veritas,
            Jim.

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:

            > Hi, folks, and thanks Jim, that's really interesting.
            > The freezer is around zero degrees F., but the wine
            > is not very high alcohol, my guess would be around 9%.
            > But say it was 100 litres at 10% ( 10 l. of alcohol
            > and 90 l. of water)and the abv was increased to 15%
            > (it's close and the math is easier):
            > I would still have (in theory and ignoring losses)
            > the same amount of alcohol (ten litres) but much less
            > water and so, less in total to distill.
            > A total of 66 l. of wine @15% alcohol gives the same
            > 10 l. of alcohol and 56 l. of water; which is 36 l.
            > less water, and of course 36 l. less total volume.
            >
            > Anyway I think that's right.
            >
            > And hopefully with the same aroma compounds.
            >
            > So I think it will be well worth the effort although
            > The abv will still not be high.
            >
            > Thanks again for the interesting data
            > Regards,
            >
            > The Baker
            >
          • gff_stwrt
            ... snip ... Hi, folks, Thanks again, Jim; that s exactly what I was hoping for. And you probably spotted my subtraction error (below); I meant to say that
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 9, 2008
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Actually Baker,
              >
              > The flavors are more intensified, since fractional crystal-
              > lization will just take the water out - not take out flavors - as
              > does distilling.

              snip
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              > Jim.

              Hi, folks,

              Thanks again, Jim; that's exactly what I was hoping for. And you
              probably spotted my subtraction error (below); I meant to say that
              there would be 34 litres less water, not 36 litres!

              Regards,
              The Baker
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@> wrote:
              >
              > > Hi, folks, and thanks Jim, that's really interesting.
              > > The freezer is around zero degrees F., but the wine
              > > is not very high alcohol, my guess would be around 9%.
              > > But say it was 100 litres at 10% ( 10 l. of alcohol
              > > and 90 l. of water)and the abv was increased to 15%
              > > (it's close and the math is easier):
              > > I would still have (in theory and ignoring losses)
              > > the same amount of alcohol (ten litres) but much less
              > > water and so, less in total to distill.
              > > A total of 66 l. of wine @15% alcohol gives the same
              > > 10 l. of alcohol and 56 l. of water; which is 36 l.
              > > less water, and of course 36 l. less total volume.
              > >
              > > Anyway I think that's right.
              > >
              > > And hopefully with the same aroma compounds.
              > >
              > > So I think it will be well worth the effort although
              > > The abv will still not be high.
              > >
              > > Thanks again for the interesting data
              > > Regards,
              > >
              > > The Baker
              > >
              >
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