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Re: 160 proof in a pot still?

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  • duds2u
    The last couple of malt whisky runs I have done utilised the info from Harry and Pint about diluting the spirit run wash. I had always diluted it down to about
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 7, 2008
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      The last couple of malt whisky runs I have done utilised the info
      from Harry and Pint about diluting the spirit run wash. I had always
      diluted it down to about 40% but the problem was I was getting too
      much alcohol volume at too high a percentage to carry over the
      flavours I was looking for thus reducing the volume of hearts. Now I
      dilute the combined low wines and feints to 27%ABV. It has made quite
      a difference.

      I am now taking only about 250ml of heads (plus the foreshots that I
      throw out) before cutting to the heart run from about 75% to 64%.
      These cuts vary a bit depending on my nose and tongue. Everything
      else then goes into the feints bottle along with the heads. By the
      way the feints are getting very familiar with my still as they just
      had their 16th trip through it. Makes for a nice consistent flavour
      profile.
      Cheers
      Duds

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hey M,
      >
      > I think the message your talking about is:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/41812
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/41812> where he
      was
      > responding to myself and Trid on the thread of "Heads, tails,
      > foreshots, middle run?? ".
      >
      > However, I believe that unless you add all your feints (heads and
      > tails), then decrease the abv of the next distillation - see :
      > http://www.artisan-
      distiller.org/photoalbum/photos/pint_o_shine/Potstill\
      > _Dilute.GIF
      > <http://www.artisan-
      distiller.org/photoalbum/photos/pint_o_shine/Potstil\
      > l_Dilute.GIF> - it might cause less flavors.
      >
      > Harry and Sherman (Pint O Shine) developed this for pot stills, if
      you
      > dont, you will end up with more alcohol and less flavors (the more
      you
      > re-distill - the closer you get to the azeotrope of alcohol - with
      no
      > flavors).
      >
      > Sometimes i add the backset to dilute the next distillation for even
      > more flavors for my sourmash.
      >
      > Vino es Veritas,
      >
      > Jim.
      >
      >
    • gff_stwrt
      (--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, mstehelin wrote:) ... Thanks, M , for your reply; thanks also to Jameson (Message 42087) and duds
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 7, 2008
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        (--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...>
        wrote:)


        >Hi, folks,

        Thanks, M , for your reply; thanks also to Jameson (Message 42087)
        and duds (Message 42088).

        What I plan to do in the first place is to freeze the wine (in
        around 10 x 10-litre buckets) in the walk-in freezer at work. I will
        take it out and strain out the ice before it is frozen (more or
        less) solid.
        I have done this before and to me it seems a lot easier. I have
        some supermarket vegetable bins a bit bigger than 2' x 1' x 1' high,
        with 1/8 holes at 1" centres in the bottom, and they make great
        strainers!

        I will probably do this twice; I hope in this way to end up with
        less water but retain almost all of the alcohol and the flavour.

        In the week or so that this takes I will think about your ideas
        and plan how to distill the wine.

        Here are some (more or less random) thoughts about it:

        * It will already be 'partly distilled' because of the freezing so
        maybe I will only put it through the still once

        * After the first run I could (after throwing out the foreshots)put
        the feints (heads-and-tails) or part of the feints into the next run
        (making cuts is something I have to learn more about from
        experience)

        * Because I have quite a lot of wine, I could leave out altogether
        any part of the heads, and the tails, that don't have any trace of
        the nice aroma, and put them in as feints into the next few 'second
        runs' of more ordinary stuff.
        (I like the idea (pint's?) of eventually adding a doubler to my
        still and making vodka with the pot still on the third (?)run
        through)

        But would some of the stuff I left out have been important to the
        brandy when it is mature? (Like wine, where the acid and the tannin
        are important as well as the flavour/aroma?)

        * I will also look up some of the information on our site on
        disitlling fruit wines as I guess retaining the aroma is important
        there too.

        Again thank you all, you have given me a lot to think about.
        If anyone else has any ideas please tell me about them.

        Regards,
        The Baker

        >
        > Mr. Baker,
        > When you distill x2 you not only increase alcohol content, but you
        > increase flavour. I Recommend that you re-use heads and tails as
        per
        > your plan. You might find that the flavours become very strong
        almost
        > like a whiskey, when aged on oak. Pint-o-shine had a pretty good
        post
        > regarding blending different cuts from the same run. It was a
        reply
        > to a post so you might have to search his posts.
        > Cheers
        > M
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi, folks,
        > >
        > > (snip)
        > > I have just been given over 100 litres of lightish red wine,
        a
        > > few years old in bottles, sour and not much tannnin and barely
        > > drinkable as wine. But the first lot through the still (after
        the
        > > foreshots and a small amount of heads) was quite strong in
        alcohol
        > > (over 60% is my guess, I have mislaid my test equipment while
        > > renovating) and had a very attractive aroma from the wine.
        > > What is the best way to keep some of this aroma and
        flavour in
        > > the brandy? I am not very experienced but to me this may end up
        as
        > > something special.
        > >
        > > I am thinking of taking the hearts out of the first run,
        and
        > > putting the little bit of heads and most of the tails into the
        > > next 'first' run.
        > > What do you think?
        > >
        > > Thanks for your help,
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > The Baker
        > >
        > >
        > >
      • jamesonbeam1
        Hey Baker, what your talking about is called jacking - I made applejack like that when I was in college. However, you must have a cold enough temp to get the
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 8, 2008
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          Hey Baker,

          what your talking about is called "jacking" - I made applejack like that when I was in college.

          However, you must have a cold enough temp to get the alcohol up.  Read this:

           

          MAKING APPLEJACK

          The features that make Applejack different from hard cider or

          apple wine is that it has a higher concentration of alcohol. It

          can be as high as 30% alcohol or 60 proof. Also, the apple

          flavor is more intense or concentrated.

          Applejack is made by storing completely finished apple wine at
          below freezing temperatures. What happens is the water that is
          in the apple wine freezes and rises to the top while the alcohol
          stays in liquid form - a process known as fractional crystal-
          lization.


          The following will give you an idea of how concentrated the alcohol can become at a given temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until the liquid
          reaches 14% alcohol by volume. At 10 below ice will form until it
          reaches 20%. At 20 below 27% can be made. And, at 30 below

          33% alcohol can be obtained.

          Applejack was very popular among the New England colonies.
          Barrels of apple wine would be set out in sheds during January
          and February when the temperatures where blistering cold. And,

          by first thaw it would be ready to drink.

           

          As you can see Baker, unless your freezer is -30 F you will not get more then 33% abv regardless of how many times you repeat this process...

           

          From: http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html

           

          Vino es Veritas,

          Jim.

          >Hi, folks,

          Thanks, M , for your reply; thanks also to Jameson (Message 42087)
          and duds (Message 42088).

          What I plan to do in the first place is to freeze the wine (in
          around 10 x 10-litre buckets) in the walk-in freezer at work. I will
          take it out and strain out the ice before it is frozen (more or
          less) solid.
          I have done this before and to me it seems a lot easier. I have
          some supermarket vegetable bins a bit bigger than 2' x 1' x 1' high,
          with 1/8 holes at 1" centres in the bottom, and they make great
          strainers!

          I will probably do this twice; I hope in this way to end up with
          less water but retain almost all of the alcohol and the flavour.
          ___snip____
        • gff_stwrt
          ... like that ... concentrated the alcohol can become at a given temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until the liquid reaches 14% alcohol by volume.
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 9, 2008
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            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hey Baker,
            >
            > what your talking about is called "jacking" - I made applejack
            like that
            > when I was in college.
            >
            > However, you must have a cold enough temp to get the
            alcohol up. Read this:
            >
            > snip
            >
            > > The following will give you an idea of how
            concentrated the alcohol can become at a given
            temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until
            the liquid reaches 14% alcohol by volume.

            snip

            > Vino es Veritas,
            >
            > Jim.

            Hi, folks, and thanks Jim, that's really interesting.
            The freezer is around zero degrees F., but the wine
            is not very high alcohol, my guess would be around 9%.
            But say it was 100 litres at 10% ( 10 l. of alcohol
            and 90 l. of water)and the abv was increased to 15%
            (it's close and the math is easier):
            I would still have (in theory and ignoring losses)
            the same amount of alcohol (ten litres) but much less
            water and so, less in total to distill.
            A total of 66 l. of wine @15% alcohol gives the same
            10 l. of alcohol and 56 l. of water; which is 36 l.
            less water, and of course 36 l. less total volume.

            Anyway I think that's right.

            And hopefully with the same aroma compounds.

            So I think it will be well worth the effort although
            The abv will still not be high.

            Thanks again for the interesting data
            Regards,

            The Baker
          • jamesonbeam1
            Actually Baker, The flavors are more intensified, since fractional crystal- lization will just take the water out - not take out flavors - as does distilling.
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 9, 2008
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              Actually Baker,

              The flavors are more intensified, since fractional crystal-
              lization will just take the water out - not take out flavors - as
              does distilling.

              At 0 degrees F you should also be able to get out around 14% abv
              regardless of what the starting abv is. You can only get more abv
              out if you go below 0 degrees F. When I crank up my freezer to high
              and get it around -15 degrees F, i can usually increase the abv from
              like 12% to 22% or around there - least thats what i calculate from
              the amount of distillate vs amount of mash using a pot still.

              Vino es Veritas,
              Jim.

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:

              > Hi, folks, and thanks Jim, that's really interesting.
              > The freezer is around zero degrees F., but the wine
              > is not very high alcohol, my guess would be around 9%.
              > But say it was 100 litres at 10% ( 10 l. of alcohol
              > and 90 l. of water)and the abv was increased to 15%
              > (it's close and the math is easier):
              > I would still have (in theory and ignoring losses)
              > the same amount of alcohol (ten litres) but much less
              > water and so, less in total to distill.
              > A total of 66 l. of wine @15% alcohol gives the same
              > 10 l. of alcohol and 56 l. of water; which is 36 l.
              > less water, and of course 36 l. less total volume.
              >
              > Anyway I think that's right.
              >
              > And hopefully with the same aroma compounds.
              >
              > So I think it will be well worth the effort although
              > The abv will still not be high.
              >
              > Thanks again for the interesting data
              > Regards,
              >
              > The Baker
              >
            • gff_stwrt
              ... snip ... Hi, folks, Thanks again, Jim; that s exactly what I was hoping for. And you probably spotted my subtraction error (below); I meant to say that
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 9, 2008
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                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Actually Baker,
                >
                > The flavors are more intensified, since fractional crystal-
                > lization will just take the water out - not take out flavors - as
                > does distilling.

                snip
                >
                > Vino es Veritas,
                > Jim.

                Hi, folks,

                Thanks again, Jim; that's exactly what I was hoping for. And you
                probably spotted my subtraction error (below); I meant to say that
                there would be 34 litres less water, not 36 litres!

                Regards,
                The Baker
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@> wrote:
                >
                > > Hi, folks, and thanks Jim, that's really interesting.
                > > The freezer is around zero degrees F., but the wine
                > > is not very high alcohol, my guess would be around 9%.
                > > But say it was 100 litres at 10% ( 10 l. of alcohol
                > > and 90 l. of water)and the abv was increased to 15%
                > > (it's close and the math is easier):
                > > I would still have (in theory and ignoring losses)
                > > the same amount of alcohol (ten litres) but much less
                > > water and so, less in total to distill.
                > > A total of 66 l. of wine @15% alcohol gives the same
                > > 10 l. of alcohol and 56 l. of water; which is 36 l.
                > > less water, and of course 36 l. less total volume.
                > >
                > > Anyway I think that's right.
                > >
                > > And hopefully with the same aroma compounds.
                > >
                > > So I think it will be well worth the effort although
                > > The abv will still not be high.
                > >
                > > Thanks again for the interesting data
                > > Regards,
                > >
                > > The Baker
                > >
                >
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