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Re: Continuous Still Design - With Head Removal

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  • ragnagna75012 ragnagna75012
    ... vapor. However since the latent head of evaporation of ethanol is about 10 times the amount of energy needed to bring room temperature ethanol to near
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 27, 2008
      >True there is a lot more heat in the spent wash than the distillate
      vapor. However since the latent head of evaporation of ethanol is
      about 10 times the amount of energy needed to bring room temperature
      ethanol to near boiling it doesn't take much to preheat the wash. At
      the same time the balance should be enough to cool the distillate
      vapor down.


      let's try some estimation with an optimistic 10 % mass wash :
      water entering the still at 20 C and leaving it at 99 C will take out
      4,1 kJ*0,9*(99-20)=291 kj /kg of wash

      291 000 /1500/60 = 3,2 minutes is the time you'll need for a kg of wash (a liter) with 1500w.
      To that you have to add the heat loss from the boiler and the column.


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    • markabolton
      Greetings, I am new to this forum and have only built a cuppla eyeball engineering stills which hve worked quite nicely. I am intrigued by the idea of
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 31, 2008
        Greetings,

        I am new to this forum and have only built a cuppla "eyeball
        engineering" stills which hve worked quite nicely. I am intrigued by
        the idea of building a continous still for most of the reasons already
        outlined on the forum.

        Two things occur to me.

        One is the nesessity to have a decicive and well designed method of
        head removal if you are going from wash to potable product in the one
        process.

        The other is the hit and miss control of parameters. Has any one
        considered a PC based micro contoller to fully process control what is
        happeing in the still? The sensors and control pumps, heaters etc I
        would get from photo processing machines since I have access to them.

        Working out how best to set up and automate the process parameter
        contol etc isnt apparent to me straight away but a little research
        should cast some light.

        Would that be over kill? At best it would be interesting to record and
        tabulate the variable during runs?

        Has anyone been down this path before?

        Regards in anticipatiion.

        Mark
      • Arsene Lupin
        What would be overkill and too much anticipation would be to work on the much needed automation prior to having a hand on that very special device. As for
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 31, 2008
          What would be overkill and too much anticipation would be to work on
          the much needed automation prior to having a hand on that very special
          device.

          As for automation, i'm sure you'll soon be advised to make "a search"
          on E-ARC and E-AFC :))


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "markabolton" <markabolton@...> wrote:
          >
          > Greetings,
          >
          > I am new to this forum and have only built a cuppla "eyeball
          > engineering" stills which hve worked quite nicely. I am intrigued by
          > the idea of building a continous still for most of the reasons already
          > outlined on the forum.
          >
          > Two things occur to me.
          >
          > One is the nesessity to have a decicive and well designed method of
          > head removal if you are going from wash to potable product in the one
          > process.
          >
          > The other is the hit and miss control of parameters. Has any one
          > considered a PC based micro contoller to fully process control what is
          > happeing in the still? The sensors and control pumps, heaters etc I
          > would get from photo processing machines since I have access to them.
          >
          > Working out how best to set up and automate the process parameter
          > contol etc isnt apparent to me straight away but a little research
          > should cast some light.
          >
          > Would that be over kill? At best it would be interesting to record and
          > tabulate the variable during runs?
          >
          > Has anyone been down this path before?
          >
          > Regards in anticipatiion.
          >
          > Mark
          >
        • abbababbaccc
          The best way to approach this kind of setup is to start it simple. Your first goal should be a continuous still/stripper that produces as high ABV as possible.
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 31, 2008
            The best way to approach this kind of setup is to start it simple.
            Your first goal should be a continuous still/stripper that produces as
            high ABV as possible. Once that is done you need to cut off tails and
            boost the ABV to 95.6%. After that you attach a heads separation
            column to the system and in theory you will get pure ethanol out of
            your still.

            This is achievable with three columns and should even be doable with
            two. The control system is a story of it's own but things like E-ARC
            and E-AFC certainly make life easier while avoiding overcomplication.
            I think E-AFC was not discussed in length in this group but you may
            find something with a search.

            Cheers, Riku

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Arsene Lupin" <ragnagna75012@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > What would be overkill and too much anticipation would be to work on
            > the much needed automation prior to having a hand on that very
            special
            > device.
            >
            > As for automation, i'm sure you'll soon be advised to make "a search"
            > on E-ARC and E-AFC :))
            >
            >
            >
          • markabolton
            That s certainly the way I would approach a project like this. Build the hardware after having studied a bit of theory and then run it using manual temperature
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 1, 2008
              That's certainly the way I would approach a project like this. Build
              the hardware after having studied a bit of theory and then run it
              using manual temperature control etc. After getting a feel for how the
              thing would perform optimaly then I would build the interface and
              write the program.

              It's just that all the photoprocessing equipment I have ever worked on
              is far less delicate in the variables that it needs to deal with but
              they are invariably process controlled.

              Thank you for the tips on the A ERC etc an Yes I will do a seach since
              it is an age since I designed a machine controller and the systems
              were very diffent then .

              The interface circuitry hasn't changed much though.

              Regards MArk
            • abbababbaccc
              The problem is not writing or designing a software or control system. The big challenge is in understanding what s happening inside your still and that part
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 1, 2008
                The problem is not writing or designing a software or control
                system. The big challenge is in understanding what's happening
                inside your still and that part comes via trial and error.

                Cheers, Riku

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "markabolton" <markabolton@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > That's certainly the way I would approach a project like this.
                Build
                > the hardware after having studied a bit of theory and then run it
                > using manual temperature control etc. After getting a feel for how
                the
                > thing would perform optimaly then I would build the interface and
                > write the program.
                >
                > It's just that all the photoprocessing equipment I have ever
                worked on
                > is far less delicate in the variables that it needs to deal with
                but
                > they are invariably process controlled.
                >
                > Thank you for the tips on the A ERC etc an Yes I will do a seach
                since
                > it is an age since I designed a machine controller and the systems
                > were very diffent then .
                >
                > The interface circuitry hasn't changed much though.
                >
                > Regards MArk
                >
              • Arsene Lupin
                Hi James, Any progress ? Your design still puzzles me, I ve never seen a continuous column without reflux. The closest from that is the adams still which is
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 2, 2008
                  Hi James,
                  Any progress ?
                  Your design still puzzles me, I 've never seen a continuous column
                  without reflux. The closest from that is the adams still which is
                  something like a 3 thumper potstill (see alcohol& denaturing @ library).

                  Yeah ! I think i found the prob with not having reflux!!!!
                  At the bottom you provide x joules to a 10% (or so )wash, but at the
                  top of the column your x joules are transfered to a 80% wash, and that
                  means you will vaporise much more ethanol than you input.
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