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Re: Non gelatinized wheat flour mash - why it won't work

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  • Sherman
    Wal, you seem to be a bit confused. One of the simplest and most violently fermenting washes that can be made, utilizes the nutrients in wheat germ cooked with
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 15, 2008
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      Wal, you seem to be a bit confused. One of the simplest and most
      violently fermenting washes that can be made, utilizes the nutrients
      in wheat germ cooked with sugar only.
      The semolina, even though it is a high protein wheat, aids in the fact
      that is supplies a welcome supply of protein for yeast growth along
      with a manageable grain size for an off the shelf product. It
      contributes its starches readily because of its ease of gelatinization
      and ready separation of starch from protein by the malt enzymes. This
      separation is much easier than the dent corn because there is no zein
      holding it together, and requires a bit of acid to aid in the separation.
      This seems to be a case where experience is different that research.
      I have executed this with good results with both fermentation, lots of
      foam, and settling and filtering. Possibly you should you should try a
      few recipes before being so quick to criticize or downplay a solution
      that actually works. You should research DoppelKorn Schnapps and see
      how the Germans do it. You may be very surprised.


      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
      >
      > Durum wheat is high protein wheat. Distillers need a high starch
      > grain. Semolina (I think) is also a high protein wheat kernel. you
      > would be better off using burghul wheat (Middle Eastern product). Why
      > the wheat germ? The wheat germ oil is not helpful.
      > wal
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I see you had the exact same results I did the first 6 or 7 times I
      > > tried this a couple of decades ago.
      > >
      > > I resorted to using semolina and wheat germ to make a mashable wheat
      > > whiskey grain bill. I can get the protein and fat part of wheat as
      > > wheat germ already toasted too. I can get the very low protein
      > > endosperm starch using semolina(Cream of Wheat) and use malted barley
      > > to mash the concoction. I made several batches of wheat beer that was
      > > lightly hopped and the women loved it while my men friend swigged the
      > > pale ale. I mashed and distilled a few batches also but the wheat
      > > flavor is so light it is really only good in the white as it comes
      > > over almost like a vodka especially if distilled twice.
      > >
      > > The point is that the white semolina has less physical limitations
      > > than the flour and cooks almost instantly added to boiling water.
      > >
      > > My technique was to boil the wheat germ about 90 minutes, then start
      > > dusting in the semolina until it was like thick porridge. Remove from
      > > heat and when the temp gets below 155F add the malted barley, stir
      > > well and into the water cooler until morning. I decanted the liquid to
      > > make beer but fermented the whole thing first and then decanted before
      > > distilling. If I could find whole Durum at a reasonable price it would
      > > be easier to mash than soft wheat. Then I could grind to my own specs
      > > rather than using something near the texture of flour.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Well, I tried another version of the wheat flour mash. The previous
      > > > version employed the cooking method and provided good results. This
      > > > time I went with striking water, first mix the flour with 50C
      water to
      > > > get the temperature to 40C, then add boiling water to get to
      65C. This
      > > > went very well and after some 5 minutes of stirring the mash
      > > > liquidified real well.
      > > >
      > > > Then I made my first mistake. The idea was to boil this in my still
      > > > boiler to gelatinize grains. After about 4 minutes of heating I
      > > > noticed burnt smell and internal heating elements were covered in
      > > > black soot :( The mash had taken brownish colour and slight offsmell
      > > > that I knew would distill over in a potstill.
      > > >
      > > > After some thought I decided to see what happens if you process the
      > > > mash without delatinization, since no-one was able to explain
      that in
      > > > detail to me. So I let it cool and pitched some baker's yeast.
      SG was
      > > > 1.060 and it started bubling immediately. Over the night it had
      foamed
      > > > over and some 2 liters of krausen was at the floor. No biggie, I
      > > > ditched that and let it go on.
      > > >
      > > > Today I finally had time to strip the mash that had fermented
      nicely.
      > > > There was some 16 liters of relatively clear liquid on top of some 5
      > > > liters of thick sludge at the bottom. I transferred the clear
      stuff to
      > > > my boiler and let her rip.
      > > >
      > > > First thing I noticed was bad foaming. That mash had s***load of
      > > > proteins left in it since I didn't boil it. Well, I controlled the
      > > > foaming and after some half an hour was able to continue at 2kW.
      Went
      > > > to do other things and came back after another half an hour. The
      > > > strippate in the bottle had turned yellowish brown and there was
      again
      > > > a nasty smell of schorched grains in the air - the spirits
      coming out
      > > > of the still smelled foul and had changed colour :( At this point I
      > > > concluded that the batch is eventually ruined beyond salvation and
      > > > aborted the run.
      > > >
      > > > What had happened then? Those proteins that form the foam had
      > > > eventually clumped together and the foam had cleared. However, those
      > > > bloody proteins had formed somewhat large (2-3mm) sticky clumps that
      > > > rolled around the mash in the boiler. In no time they started to
      stick
      > > > to my heating elements and you know the results.
      > > >
      > > > Lesson to be learned, gelatinizing those starches and boiling
      the mash
      > > > before fermentation are indeed very good ideas if you want to have
      > > > easy and trouble free stripping run.
      > > >
      > > > Another lesson, rising the mash temperature with striking water
      works
      > > > really well for flour mashes.
      > > >
      > > > Cheers, Riku
      > > >
      > >
      >
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