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Yeast Explosion!

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  • morganfield1
    Hello All, I know I m going to get yelled at for doing something stupid, but I blame my mom for not drowning me when I was born. Anyway, when I started this
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 28, 2008
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      Hello All,

      I know I'm going to get yelled at for doing something stupid, but I
      blame my mom for not drowning me when I was born. Anyway, when I
      started this hobby, I always used two packets of champaigne yeast to
      make washes. It worked out well, but the ferment took 3 to 4 weeks.
      This season, I decided to go wild and take the advise of 99% of the
      guys on this group, and add 4 packets (generally 3 champaigne and 1
      bread, as I make whiskey). Well, it worked good on my first corn
      mash, finished in 2 weeks, but there was a bit more trub. That was
      ok. A couple of mashes ago, I did a fruit wash (apple), and because I
      wasn't sure if fruit provided yeast nutrient, I added some. Holy cow,
      stand back. Again, 3 champaigne and 1 bread, and a bit more trub than
      usual (just for reference, I used to get just over an inch of trub,
      now I was getting a couple inches).
      Now, I never added nutrient to my grain mashes (corn) because I was
      under the impression that grains provided nutrient for the yeast. But
      on my last corn wash, I added nutrient just as an experiment. Again,
      holy cow, stand back. It was blowing the water out of the airlock!
      The problem was, I had about 7 inches of trub!
      Now, there were things I wish I had done differently;

      1. The O.G. was 1.120, should've added more water.

      2. When I saw there wasn't enough to charge the boiler, I should've
      added more water, let it settle for a couple of days, racked it and
      run it, but I was pressed for time.

      Has anyone run into this before, and if so, how do I avoid this again.
      Thanks for your help,

      Tip one, Morgan
    • Sherman
      ... And you are trying to figure how to separate the trub from the liquid. It is a raw corn, yeast nutrient and sugar wash? First I rack as much as I can. Then
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 28, 2008
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        I am guessing your are saying the problem is:

        >>The problem was, I had about 7 inches of trub!

        And you are trying to figure how to separate the trub from the liquid.
        It is a raw corn, yeast nutrient and sugar wash?
        First I rack as much as I can. Then I use an ez-strainer 200 micron
        http://www.bascousa.com/store/item.aspx?DEPARTMENT_ID=133&ITEM_ID=469
        to remove the large and then put it back in the carboy and let it
        settle a bit before I run it.
        It is a bit time consuming but minutes compared to day of waiting for
        a fermentation to complete. I poor a bit and shake, remove solids, and
        repeat until it is finished.

        Sometimes I don't bother and distill with the yeast and smaller stuff
        still in the wash. I have found there to be that much difference since
        I am only striping at this point.


        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1" <morganfield1@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        >
        > I know I'm going to get yelled at for doing something stupid, but I
        > blame my mom for not drowning me when I was born. Anyway, when I
        > started this hobby, I always used two packets of champaigne yeast to
        > make washes. It worked out well, but the ferment took 3 to 4 weeks.
        > This season, I decided to go wild and take the advise of 99% of the
        > guys on this group, and add 4 packets (generally 3 champaigne and 1
        > bread, as I make whiskey). Well, it worked good on my first corn
        > mash, finished in 2 weeks, but there was a bit more trub. That was
        > ok. A couple of mashes ago, I did a fruit wash (apple), and because I
        > wasn't sure if fruit provided yeast nutrient, I added some. Holy cow,
        > stand back. Again, 3 champaigne and 1 bread, and a bit more trub than
        > usual (just for reference, I used to get just over an inch of trub,
        > now I was getting a couple inches).
        > Now, I never added nutrient to my grain mashes (corn) because I was
        > under the impression that grains provided nutrient for the yeast. But
        > on my last corn wash, I added nutrient just as an experiment. Again,
        > holy cow, stand back. It was blowing the water out of the airlock!
        > The problem was, I had about 7 inches of trub!
        > Now, there were things I wish I had done differently;
        >
        > 1. The O.G. was 1.120, should've added more water.
        >
        > 2. When I saw there wasn't enough to charge the boiler, I should've
        > added more water, let it settle for a couple of days, racked it and
        > run it, but I was pressed for time.
        >
        > Has anyone run into this before, and if so, how do I avoid this again.
        > Thanks for your help,
        >
        > Tip one, Morgan
        >
      • morganfield1
        Hi Sherm, Thanks for replying, let me give you some more info. SHMBO came home from work and I had to take her to get her car (obviously, I wasn t doing
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 28, 2008
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          Hi Sherm,

          Thanks for replying, let me give you some more info. SHMBO came home
          from work and I had to take her to get her car (obviously, I wasn't
          doing anything important).

          Here's the bill;
          4 lbs. cracked corn
          5 lbs. table sugar
          5 lbs. dextrose
          2 tbls. yeast nutrient
          3 pkgs. Red Star chamaigne yeast
          1 pkg. Red Star "Fast Acting" Bread yeast

          I always try to mash the corn, usually fail miserably, but this time
          I actually succeeded. I did some research to find out how much sugar
          was potentially in the mash and decided I was still within specs.

          I know how to get the wash off the trub, my question was how do I
          reduce the amount of trub? Did I over feed the little devils? The
          wash finaled out 1.oo6, or 14% and change, so i was within the
          alchohol range of the yeast, and there was no sweet taste to the beer.
          It's just that I have never experienced that much trub before.

          Morgan

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@...> wrote:
          >
          > I am guessing your are saying the problem is:
          >
          > >>The problem was, I had about 7 inches of trub!
          >
          > And you are trying to figure how to separate the trub from the
          liquid.
          > It is a raw corn, yeast nutrient and sugar wash?
          > First I rack as much as I can. Then I use an ez-strainer 200 micron
          > http://www.bascousa.com/store/item.aspx?
          DEPARTMENT_ID=133&ITEM_ID=469
          > to remove the large and then put it back in the carboy and let it
          > settle a bit before I run it.
          > It is a bit time consuming but minutes compared to day of waiting
          for
          > a fermentation to complete. I poor a bit and shake, remove solids,
          and
          > repeat until it is finished.
          >
          > Sometimes I don't bother and distill with the yeast and smaller
          stuff
          > still in the wash. I have found there to be that much difference
          since
          > I am only striping at this point.
          >
          >
          >
        • Sherman
          Oh ok I did mis understand. You were wondering why so much sediment in the bottom of the fermenter compared to when you did not feed the yeast. A lot of it has
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 28, 2008
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            Oh ok I did mis understand. You were wondering why so much sediment in
            the bottom of the fermenter compared to when you did not feed the
            yeast. A lot of it has to do with the flocking capability of the Red
            Star Champagne yeast. It is actually UC Davis 595. Most of the
            descriptions I have been able to find state that is is a medium
            tolerance, medium attenuation speed and medium flocculation yeast
            strain. It is a favorite of mine for sure. Most of the time I have
            used it it settles really great with the exception of one. When I use
            barley in the mix I cannot get it to settle. Something in the barley
            malt fattens it up and the barley and yeast float. Have you ever had
            this problem with either of the red star ones before. I insist on red
            star bread yeast for making rum. The old myths about it leaving a
            bread taste just isn't there. I have never used bread yeast with
            malted barley though. I have had several ale yeast leave lots of trub
            in my beer.

            I have a cornflakes and sour corn right now that I used RS Champagne
            and it is very full of trub, but most of it is cornflakes not yeast.
            it hasn't even begun to to settle yet and is still jumping up and
            down. I know I am not helping much but it is an interesting
            conversation. Maybe some other brewers can help us figure this out.



            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1" <morganfield1@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi Sherm,
            >
            > Thanks for replying, let me give you some more info. SHMBO came home
            > from work and I had to take her to get her car (obviously, I wasn't
            > doing anything important).
            >
            > Here's the bill;
            > 4 lbs. cracked corn
            > 5 lbs. table sugar
            > 5 lbs. dextrose
            > 2 tbls. yeast nutrient
            > 3 pkgs. Red Star chamaigne yeast
            > 1 pkg. Red Star "Fast Acting" Bread yeast
            >
            > I always try to mash the corn, usually fail miserably, but this time
            > I actually succeeded. I did some research to find out how much sugar
            > was potentially in the mash and decided I was still within specs.
            >
            > I know how to get the wash off the trub, my question was how do I
            > reduce the amount of trub? Did I over feed the little devils? The
            > wash finaled out 1.oo6, or 14% and change, so i was within the
            > alchohol range of the yeast, and there was no sweet taste to the beer.
            > It's just that I have never experienced that much trub before.
            >
            > Morgan
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I am guessing your are saying the problem is:
            > >
            > > >>The problem was, I had about 7 inches of trub!
            > >
            > > And you are trying to figure how to separate the trub from the
            > liquid.
            > > It is a raw corn, yeast nutrient and sugar wash?
            > > First I rack as much as I can. Then I use an ez-strainer 200 micron
            > > http://www.bascousa.com/store/item.aspx?
            > DEPARTMENT_ID=133&ITEM_ID=469
            > > to remove the large and then put it back in the carboy and let it
            > > settle a bit before I run it.
            > > It is a bit time consuming but minutes compared to day of waiting
            > for
            > > a fermentation to complete. I poor a bit and shake, remove solids,
            > and
            > > repeat until it is finished.
            > >
            > > Sometimes I don't bother and distill with the yeast and smaller
            > stuff
            > > still in the wash. I have found there to be that much difference
            > since
            > > I am only striping at this point.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Robert Hubble
            Pint, What do the cornflakes get you. Flavor? Aid to fermentation? Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller ________________________________ To:
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 29, 2008
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              Pint,

              What do the cornflakes get you. Flavor? Aid to fermentation?


              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller



              ________________________________

              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              From: pintoshine@...
              Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:33:47 +0000
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: Yeast Explosion!



              ----snip----
              I have a cornflakes and sour corn right now that I used RS Champagne
              and it is very full of trub, but most of it is cornflakes not yeast.
              it hasn't even begun to to settle yet and is still jumping up and
              down. I know I am not helping much but it is an interesting
              conversation. Maybe some other brewers can help us figure this out.

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1"
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi Sherm,
              >
              > Thanks for replying, let me give you some more info. SHMBO came home
              > from work and I had to take her to get her car (obviously, I wasn't
              > doing anything important).
              ----snip----

              _________________________________________________________________
              Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give.
              http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
            • Sherman
              I got the idea from Jameson Beam. It works off the sugar faster than corn alone so I know there must be more nutrients. Also it is cooked corn so I am hoping
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 29, 2008
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                I got the idea from Jameson Beam. It works off the sugar faster than
                corn alone so I know there must be more nutrients. Also it is cooked
                corn so I am hoping the flavor profile is more like mashed corn than
                raw corn. I did a sour corn UJSM and it was ripe with that raw corn
                taste. I prefer the mashed corn flavor. So I was just experimenting. I
                helped a fellow get started by recommending to him the method
                described by Jameson Beam and he said in south korea it was a real
                success. I thought I would give it a try to see if there was a
                distinct enough flavor profile difference to matter. It is still a bit
                sluggish and not really attenuating very fast. The flakes and corn are
                going round and round. It has been 10 days and I hit it pretty hard
                with sugar. It was 2 lbs /gallon which I usually steer away from
                because it takes so long to ferment that much sugar at an average temp
                of 68 to 70. This would probably ok for the summer.




                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Pint,
                >
                > What do the cornflakes get you. Flavor? Aid to fermentation?
                >
                >
                > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                >
                > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                > From: pintoshine@...
                > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:33:47 +0000
                > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Yeast Explosion!
                >
                >
                >
                > ----snip----
                > I have a cornflakes and sour corn right now that I used RS Champagne
                > and it is very full of trub, but most of it is cornflakes not yeast.
                > it hasn't even begun to to settle yet and is still jumping up and
                > down. I know I am not helping much but it is an interesting
                > conversation. Maybe some other brewers can help us figure this out.
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1"
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Sherm,
                > >
                > > Thanks for replying, let me give you some more info. SHMBO came home
                > > from work and I had to take her to get her car (obviously, I wasn't
                > > doing anything important).
                > ----snip----
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM,
                we give.
                > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
                >
              • morganfield1
                Hey Pint, Ya know, I did use barley once with this yeast, 20% barley-80% cracked corn. But I can t find it in my records, and I don t remember how it turned
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 29, 2008
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                  Hey Pint,

                  Ya know, I did use barley once with this yeast, 20% barley-80%
                  cracked corn. But I can't find it in my records, and I don't remember
                  how it turned out. I know it fermented out, though, that Red Star
                  will ferment nuts and bolts! Thanks for the reply.

                  Tip one, Morgan

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Oh ok I did mis understand. You were wondering why so much sediment
                  in
                  > the bottom of the fermenter compared to when you did not feed the
                  > yeast. A lot of it has to do with the flocking capability of the Red
                  > Star Champagne yeast. It is actually UC Davis 595. Most of the
                  > descriptions I have been able to find state that is is a medium
                  > tolerance, medium attenuation speed and medium flocculation yeast
                  > strain. It is a favorite of mine for sure. Most of the time I have
                  > used it it settles really great with the exception of one. When I
                  use
                  > barley in the mix I cannot get it to settle. Something in the barley
                  > malt fattens it up and the barley and yeast float. Have you ever had
                  > this problem with either of the red star ones before. I insist on
                  red
                  > star bread yeast for making rum. The old myths about it leaving a
                  > bread taste just isn't there. I have never used bread yeast with
                  > malted barley though. I have had several ale yeast leave lots of
                  trub
                  > in my beer.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                • Sven Pfitt
                  ... I ... cow, ... ...snip... No, most fruit does not provide enough nutrients so adding them helps. This is why wine takes longer to fement than beer as a
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 30, 2008
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                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1" <morganfield1@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello All,
                    >
                    ...snip...

                    > This season, I decided to go wild and take the advise of 99% of the
                    > guys on this group, and add 4 packets (generally 3 champaigne and 1
                    > bread, as I make whiskey). Well, it worked good on my first corn
                    > mash, finished in 2 weeks, but there was a bit more trub. That was
                    > ok. A couple of mashes ago, I did a fruit wash (apple), and because
                    I
                    > wasn't sure if fruit provided yeast nutrient, I added some. Holy
                    cow,
                    > stand back.


                    ...snip...
                    No, most fruit does not provide enough nutrients so adding them
                    helps. This is why wine takes longer to fement than beer as a general
                    rule and why wine generally has nutrients added.



                    > Now, I never added nutrient to my grain mashes (corn) because I was
                    > under the impression that grains provided nutrient for the yeast.

                    ......
                    Only true if you are not adding a significant percentage of sugar. If
                    you add over 20% sugar, you should be adding nutrients.




                    >But on my last corn wash, I added nutrient just as an experiment.
                    Again,
                    > holy cow, stand back. It was blowing the water out of the airlock!
                    > The problem was, I had about 7 inches of trub!

                    ......
                    More nutrients - more healthy yeast, more trub. Although 7" is a lot
                    and it should settle out to less than that.



                    > Now, there were things I wish I had done differently;
                    >
                    > 1. The O.G. was 1.120, should've added more water.
                    >
                    > 2. When I saw there wasn't enough to charge the boiler, I should've
                    > added more water, let it settle for a couple of days, racked it and
                    > run it, but I was pressed for time.
                    >
                    > Has anyone run into this before, and if so, how do I avoid this
                    again.
                    > Thanks for your help,
                    >
                    > Tip one, Morgan
                    >


                    Sven
                  • morganfield1
                    Thanks, Sven Morgan ... If ... lot
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 30, 2008
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                      Thanks, Sven

                      Morgan

                      > Only true if you are not adding a significant percentage of sugar.
                      If
                      > you add over 20% sugar, you should be adding nutrients.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > ......
                      > More nutrients - more healthy yeast, more trub. Although 7" is a
                      lot
                      > and it should settle out to less than that.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > Sven
                      >
                    • Mark
                      ... wrote: I always used two packets of champaigne yeast to make washes. This season .. I decided to ..add 4 packets (generally 3 champaigne and 1 bread, as I
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 3, 2008
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                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1" <morganfield1@...>
                        wrote:
                        I always used two packets of champaigne yeast to
                        make washes. This season .. I decided to ..add 4 packets (generally 3
                        champaigne and 1 bread, as I make whiskey.

                        2X the yeast and a high starting gravity - do you use any form of
                        temperature control in the fermenter?
                      • morganfield1
                        Hi Mark, No, the house is around 65 degrees (18C), I just rap a towel around the bucket and put in a corner. Tip one, Morgan
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 4, 2008
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                          Hi Mark,
                          No, the house is around 65 degrees (18C), I just rap a towel around the
                          bucket and put in a corner.

                          Tip one, Morgan

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markgofast@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1" <morganfield1@>
                          > wrote:
                          > I always used two packets of champaigne yeast to
                          > make washes. This season .. I decided to ..add 4 packets (generally 3
                          > champaigne and 1 bread, as I make whiskey.
                          >
                          > 2X the yeast and a high starting gravity - do you use any form of
                          > temperature control in the fermenter?
                          >
                        • justin webster
                          Hi, the mailing list archive link at the bottom of these emails does not seem to go anywhere useful. is the archive hosted anywhere on the net? justin
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 9, 2008
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                            Hi,
                            the 'mailing list archive' link at the bottom of these emails does
                            not seem to go anywhere useful.
                            is the archive hosted anywhere on the net?
                            justin
                          • Harry
                            ... It appears that infoarchive has restructured. However, we have a backup with long-time member Matt Taet (thanks Matt). Here s the relevant info... New
                            Message 13 of 14 , Feb 9, 2008
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                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi,
                              > the 'mailing list archive' l the bottom of these emails does 
                              > not seem to go anywhere useful.
                              > is the archive hosted anywhere on the net?
                              > justin
                              >


                              It appears that infoarchive has restructured.   However, we have a backup with long-time member Matt Taet (thanks Matt).  Here's the relevant info...

                              New Distillers
                              Collecting since August 2002
                              This is where you begin as a newbie into the world of making your own spirits. This is only legal in a few countries, one of them being in New Zealand...

                              Distillers
                              Collecting since August 2002
                              Very interesting news group about distilling of spirits. This is only legal in a few countries, one of them being in New Zealand...

                              I guess Matt's archives now get promoted to Numero Uno.  :)

                              You can also use the search function on our sites homepage and messages screens.  This goes back to the group's beginnings...1999.

                               

                              Slainte!
                              regards Harry

                            • Vini
                              I,ve been using Matt s site for quite a while since I like the interface there better. I ve noticed recently that it only has a fraction of all messages shown
                              Message 14 of 14 , Feb 10, 2008
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                                I,ve been using Matt's site for quite a while since I like the
                                interface there better. I've noticed recently that it only has a
                                fraction of all messages shown on Yahoo. In January there are 47
                                messages compared to Yahoo's 175. I wonder why.

                                /Vini


                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com> ,
                                > justin webster <mail@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hi,
                                > > the 'mailing list archive' l the bottom of these emails does
                                > > not seem to go anywhere useful.
                                > > is the archive hosted anywhere on the net?
                                > > justin
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > It appears that infoarchive has restructured. However, we have a
                                > backup with long-time member Matt Taet (thanks Matt). Here's the
                                > relevant info...
                                >
                                > New Distillers <http://www.taet.com.au/ndistillers.nsf>
                                > Collecting since August 2002
                                > This is where you begin as a newbie into the world of making your own
                                > spirits. This is only legal in a few countries, one of them being in New
                                > Zealand...
                                >
                                > Distillers <http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf>
                                > Collecting since August 2002
                                > Very interesting news group about distilling of spirits. This is only
                                > legal in a few countries, one of them being in New Zealand...
                                >
                                >
                                > I guess Matt's archives now get promoted to Numero Uno. :)
                                >
                                > You can also use the search function on our sites homepage and messages
                                > screens. This goes back to the group's beginnings...1999.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Slainte!
                                > regards Harry
                                >
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