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foaming frenzy!

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  • justin webster
    hmmm, So I tried my first batch with molasses only (5kg) and sat down to distill it last night. unfortunately the molasses wash seemed to want to foam up with
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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      hmmm,
      So I tried my first batch with molasses only (5kg) and sat down to
      distill it last night.

      unfortunately the molasses wash seemed to want to foam up with the
      slightest provocation.
      as soon as the still got up to temp and started producing, the foam
      would reach the top of the still and into the condenser.
      so I removed nearly half of the wash and tried again. it would go a
      little longer before foaming over but there was no way I could leave
      it distilling by itself for more than a minute.

      I spent a couple of hours switching the power on and off to keep it
      just below foaming but eventually gave up when I realised the small
      amount of rum I had produced was both weak and foul.

      also I noticed another strange effect:
      whenever it foamed over, I would left it cool and wait for the foam
      to settle.
      as the still heated back up I would get a lot of steam escaping the
      condenser as well as some condensed alcohol.
      once I got the still back up to 78 (by careful power management) the
      steam ceased.
      I had a guess that the hot steam in a cooler environment was more
      forcefully trying to exit through the condenser and hence was only
      partially condensed.
      I also ended up with a pretty weak distillate of around 35% which
      seemed strange since the temperature never got above 85.

      any thoughts much appreciated.
      justin
    • Harry
      ... to ... the ... foam ... a ... leave ... it ... small ... foam ... the ... the ... only ... Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@...> wrote:
        >
        > hmmm,
        > So I tried my first batch with molasses only (5kg) and sat down
        to
        > distill it last night.
        >
        > unfortunately the molasses wash seemed to want to foam up with
        the
        > slightest provocation.
        > as soon as the still got up to temp and started producing, the
        foam
        > would reach the top of the still and into the condenser.
        > so I removed nearly half of the wash and tried again. it would go
        a
        > little longer before foaming over but there was no way I could
        leave
        > it distilling by itself for more than a minute.
        >
        > I spent a couple of hours switching the power on and off to keep
        it
        > just below foaming but eventually gave up when I realised the
        small
        > amount of rum I had produced was both weak and foul.
        >
        > also I noticed another strange effect:
        > whenever it foamed over, I would left it cool and wait for the
        foam
        > to settle.
        > as the still heated back up I would get a lot of steam escaping
        the
        > condenser as well as some condensed alcohol.
        > once I got the still back up to 78 (by careful power management)
        the
        > steam ceased.
        > I had a guess that the hot steam in a cooler environment was more
        > forcefully trying to exit through the condenser and hence was
        only
        > partially condensed.
        > I also ended up with a pretty weak distillate of around 35% which
        > seemed strange since the temperature never got above 85.
        >
        > any thoughts much appreciated.
        > justin
        >


        Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
        and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree
        by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension,
        usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap! (animal
        fat, no perfumes).
        The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column
        capacity.

        Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious
        for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
        http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/


        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • martin martins
        Thanks very much everyone. For my first attempt it s good to know I wasn t that far off and I ll refine it for next time. I ll let you all know how the orange
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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          Thanks very much everyone.

          For my first attempt it's good to know I wasn't that far off and I'll refine it for next time.

          I'll let you all know how the orange wash turns out in a couple of weeks time, I've two gallons to run through and it smells fantastic right now.

          M

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Rasmus <wineifera@...>
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:30:55 AM
          Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please

          I've made quite a few cointreau-like distillations and you doing
          absolutely right but you need to dillute it with alcohol. If you want
          it clear at 40% (or ~50% if you want to add sugar syryp), just dillute
          it with pure alcohol+water until it gets clear. The taste will still
          be intense enough.

          I always use invert sugar syryp which you easily can make yourself.
          Here's a recipy:

          0,5 liter:
          416 grams of sugar = 0.26 liter
          0.3 liter of water
          A little pinch of citric acid, half a millilitre or so.

          Let it simmer for 15 minutes.
          Ready to add to your cointreau base.

          If you want you can also add a little glycerol to make it even better.
          I've never done that though so I can't guide you to how much.

          /Vini




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        • abbababbaccc
          Harry, As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling causes them to form
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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            Harry,

            As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left
            in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling
            causes them to form that sticky foam. As you boil the mash further
            they slowly clump together and sink to the bottom of the boiler,
            thus no more foam. The trick is to boil it slow enough to in order
            to prevent that foam getting out of control. After an hour or so the
            foam usually clears and you can up the power. It's a great help if
            you can observe the foaming event inside the boiler while doing
            this. Adding butter and salt won't hurt either.

            Cheers, Riku

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
            > and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree
            > by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension,
            > usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap!
            (animal
            > fat, no perfumes).
            > The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column
            > capacity.
            >
            > Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious
            > for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
            > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
            >
            >
            > Slainte!
            > regards Harry
            >
          • waljaco
            Unfermentable sugars are also a source of the problem - especially in rum as molasses does not have much protein. wal
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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              Unfermentable sugars are also a source of the problem - especially in
              rum as molasses does not have much protein.
              wal
              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Harry,
              >
              > As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left
              > in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling
              > causes them to form that sticky foam. As you boil the mash further
              > they slowly clump together and sink to the bottom of the boiler,
              > thus no more foam. The trick is to boil it slow enough to in order
              > to prevent that foam getting out of control. After an hour or so the
              > foam usually clears and you can up the power. It's a great help if
              > you can observe the foaming event inside the boiler while doing
              > this. Adding butter and salt won't hurt either.
              >
              > Cheers, Riku
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
              > > and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree
              > > by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension,
              > > usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap!
              > (animal
              > > fat, no perfumes).
              > > The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column
              > > capacity.
              > >
              > > Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious
              > > for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
              > > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
              > >
              > >
              > > Slainte!
              > > regards Harry
              > >
              >
            • justin webster
              In my case the foam just didn t stop. I tired letting it cool down quite a bit as well as adding salt. no difference at all. so I gave up and let it cool right
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
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                In my case the foam just didn't stop.
                I tired letting it cool down quite a bit as well as adding salt. no difference at all.
                so I gave up and let it cool right down.

                a generous splash of peanut oil (what I had on hand) next morning fixed the issue completely.
                does anyone know of any side effect to adding vegetable oils?
                can it add or change the flavours?

                thanks for the input,
                justin

                On 28/01/2008, at 8:38 PM, waljaco wrote:

                Unfermentable sugars are also a source of the problem - especially in
                rum as molasses does not have much protein.
                wal
                --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com , "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@ ...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Harry,
                > 
                > As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left 
                > in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling 
                > causes them to form that sticky foam. As you boil the mash further 
                > they slowly clump together and sink to the bottom of the boiler, 
                > thus no more foam. The trick is to boil it slow enough to in order 
                > to prevent that foam getting out of control. After an hour or so the 
                > foam usually clears and you can up the power. It's a great help if 
                > you can observe the foaming event inside the boiler while doing 
                > this. Adding butter and salt won't hurt either.
                > 
                > Cheers, Riku
                > 
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com , "Harry" <gnikomson2000@ > wrote:
                > >
                > > 
                > > 
                > > Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column 
                > > and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree 
                > > by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension, 
                > > usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap! 
                > (animal 
                > > fat, no perfumes).
                > > The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column 
                > > capacity.
                > > 
                > > Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious 
                > > for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
                > > http://distillers. tastylime. net/library/
                > > 
                > > 
                > > Slainte!
                > > regards Harry
                > >
                >


              • waljaco
                Butter is not recommended as it can give a butterscotch flavour (forgot the chemical responsible). Traditionally pure hard soda (unperfumed) was used. It also
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
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                  Butter is not recommended as it can give a butterscotch flavour
                  (forgot the chemical responsible). Traditionally pure hard soda
                  (unperfumed) was used. It also apparently removed fusels. 40g
                  soap/litre of low wines (Distillation and Rectification of Alcohol. W
                  T Brannt, 1885)
                  wal
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > In my case the foam just didn't stop.
                  > I tired letting it cool down quite a bit as well as adding salt. no
                  > difference at all.
                  > so I gave up and let it cool right down.
                  >
                  > a generous splash of peanut oil (what I had on hand) next morning
                  > fixed the issue completely.
                  > does anyone know of any side effect to adding vegetable oils?
                  > can it add or change the flavours?
                  >
                  > thanks for the input,
                  > justin
                  >
                  > On 28/01/2008, at 8:38 PM, waljaco wrote:
                  >
                  > > Unfermentable sugars are also a source of the problem - especially in
                  > > rum as molasses does not have much protein.
                  > > wal
                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Harry,
                  > > >
                  > > > As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left
                  > > > in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling
                  > > > causes them to form that sticky foam. As you boil the mash further
                  > > > they slowly clump together and sink to the bottom of the boiler,
                  > > > thus no more foam. The trick is to boil it slow enough to in order
                  > > > to prevent that foam getting out of control. After an hour or so the
                  > > > foam usually clears and you can up the power. It's a great help if
                  > > > you can observe the foaming event inside the boiler while doing
                  > > > this. Adding butter and salt won't hurt either.
                  > > >
                  > > > Cheers, Riku
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
                  > > > > and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree
                  > > > > by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension,
                  > > > > usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap!
                  > > > (animal
                  > > > > fat, no perfumes).
                  > > > > The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column
                  > > > > capacity.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious
                  > > > > for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
                  > > > > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Slainte!
                  > > > > regards Harry
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Harry
                  ... The chemical is Diacetyl. Not liked in beers (hence the diacetyl rest , look it up), but usually present and much better tolerated (small amounts, ppm)
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
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                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Butter is not recommended as it can give a butterscotch flavour
                    > (forgot the chemical responsible). Traditionally pure hard soda
                    > (unperfumed) was used. It also apparently removed fusels. 40g
                    > soap/litre of low wines (Distillation and Rectification of Alcohol. W
                    > T Brannt, 1885)
                    > wal



                    The chemical is Diacetyl. Not liked in beers (hence the 'diacetyl
                    rest', look it up), but usually present and much better tolerated
                    (small amounts, ppm) in Scotch Whiskies. For this reason butter is
                    acceptable as a surface tension reducer in whiskies as it blends in
                    with the usual profile of Scotches.

                    However, the original poster was talking about molasses washes.
                    Butter is not the first choice for that, but if nothing else is
                    available, it's better than having the whole thing 'puke'.

                    Slainte!
                    regards Harry
                  • Vini
                    You actually don t need to macerate it very long or at all. The heat when boiling is enough to draw out the taste, the essential oils. /Vini ... I ll refine it
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
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                      You actually don't need to macerate it very long or at all. The heat
                      when boiling is enough to draw out the taste, the essential oils.

                      /Vini


                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks very much everyone.
                      >
                      > For my first attempt it's good to know I wasn't that far off and
                      I'll refine it for next time.
                      >
                      > I'll let you all know how the orange wash turns out in a couple of
                      weeks time, I've two gallons to run through and it smells fantastic
                      right now.
                      >
                      > M
                      >
                      > it clear at 40% (or ~50% if you want to add sugar syryp), just dillute
                      >
                      > it with pure alcohol+water until it gets clear. The taste will still
                      >
                      > be intense enough.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I always use invert sugar syryp which you easily can make yourself.
                      >
                      > Here's a recipy:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 0,5 liter:
                      >
                      > 416 grams of sugar = 0.26 liter
                      >
                      > 0.3 liter of water
                      >
                      > A little pinch of citric acid, half a millilitre or so.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Let it simmer for 15 minutes.
                      >
                      > Ready to add to your cointreau base.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > If you want you can also add a little glycerol to make it even better.
                      >
                      > I've never done that though so I can't guide you to how much.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > /Vini
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                      > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                      >
                    • toddk63
                      I use Manteca (Pork lard for tamales) but only for the strip . I don t need it for the spirit run. Todd K.
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
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                        I use Manteca (Pork lard for tamales) but only for the strip . I
                        don't need it for the spirit run.

                        Todd K.

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Butter is not recommended as it can give a butterscotch flavour
                        > > (forgot the chemical responsible). Traditionally pure hard soda
                        > > (unperfumed) was used. It also apparently removed fusels. 40g
                        > > soap/litre of low wines (Distillation and Rectification of Alcohol. W
                        > > T Brannt, 1885)
                        > > wal
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The chemical is Diacetyl. Not liked in beers (hence the 'diacetyl
                        > rest', look it up), but usually present and much better tolerated
                        > (small amounts, ppm) in Scotch Whiskies. For this reason butter is
                        > acceptable as a surface tension reducer in whiskies as it blends in
                        > with the usual profile of Scotches.
                        >
                        > However, the original poster was talking about molasses washes.
                        > Butter is not the first choice for that, but if nothing else is
                        > available, it's better than having the whole thing 'puke'.
                        >
                        > Slainte!
                        > regards Harry
                        >
                      • sonum norbu
                        Nah, not at all. Just playing games kids games with the f@^%&ing kids. LOLOLO F ing L blanik ... Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
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                          Nah, not at all. Just playing games kids games with the f@^%&ing kids. LOLOLO F'ing L

                          blanik



                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "John Wisbey" <johnwisbey@...>
                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                          > Date: Sun, 27 Jan:21:45 +0100
                          >
                          >
                          > Now you are getting the idea!!!!!
                          > John Wisbey
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: sonum norbu
                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:28 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                          >
                          >
                          > Nice informative post. Thanks.
                          >
                          > I would normally call it it F&^%(%$#ing nice post but I didn't
                          > want to offend. :))
                          >
                          > blanik
                          >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: bbornais <bbornais@...>
                          > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                          > > Date: Sat, 26 Jan:11:46 -0000
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating out
                          > > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol down.
                          > >
                          > > The rule is:
                          > >
                          > > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                          > > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                          > > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                          > > which are the oils.
                          > >
                          > > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at 70%
                          > > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                          > >
                          > > you may just have extracted too many oils.
                          > >
                          > > You can try using less peel, or macerating closer to the ABV you
                          > > wish to cut to.
                          > >
                          > > Sounds tasty.
                          > >
                          > > Bryan.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi Wal
                          > > >
                          > > > Yes Cointreau was something like I was aiming for. I think you
                          > > might be right about using too much peel then, I probably used a lot
                          > > more than three, I was just peeling a shed-load while watching TV.
                          > > >
                          > > > I used Seville oranges and it does taste really good after the
                          > > steeped liquor was put through the still again. Maybe there is too
                          > > much oil from the oranges and I'll have another go with less peel.
                          > > It's just a little too alcoholic to enjoy, I know throwing a colloid
                          > > isn't damaging, but it doesn't look as nice.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks for your thoughts
                          > > > M
                          > > >
                          > > > ----- Original Message ----
                          > > > From: waljaco <waljaco@...>
                          > > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Friday, January 25,:09:08 PM
                          > > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Triple sec means triple dry but actually contains
                          > > sugar (Cointreau is
                          > > >
                          > > > a triple sec).
                          > > >
                          > > > Possibly you used too much peel? Normally peel from 3 large
                          > > >
                          > > > oranges/litre 50-55%abv neutral spirit - steep and redistil.
                          > > >
                          > > > wal
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > __________________________________________________________
                          > > _______________
                          > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
                          > > > Mobile. Try it now.
                          > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings".
                          > (Shakyamuni Buddha)
                          >
                          > SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
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                          "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

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                        • morganfield1
                          You re just trying to push the F word up to NO. 1!!! Tip one, Morgan ... kids. LOLOLO F ing L
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 29, 2008
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                            You're just trying to push the F word up to NO. 1!!!

                            Tip one, Morgan

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Nah, not at all. Just playing games kids games with the f@^%&ing
                            kids. LOLOLO F'ing L
                            >
                            > blanik
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > >
                          • gff_stwrt
                            ... out ... down. ... 70% ... snip ... Hi, Bryan and folks, Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to reduce the alcohol to sipping level
                            Message 13 of 24 , Feb 4, 2008
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                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating
                              out
                              > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol
                              down.
                              >
                              > The rule is:
                              >
                              > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                              > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                              > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                              > which are the oils.
                              >
                              > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at
                              70%
                              > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                              >
                              snip
                              >
                              > Bryan.
                              >
                              Hi, Bryan and folks,

                              Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to
                              reduce the alcohol to 'sipping level' could be stored at (say)70%
                              abv, which would look nice in the bottle and save a lot of space.
                              Then when you want to drink it you add (say) an equal
                              quantity of water to the glass.
                              And it goes a bit milky in the glass. So what?!
                              So do some other drinks anyway. (Pernod, I think?)

                              Sounds like a good idea.

                              Regards,
                              The Baker
                            • bbornais
                              ?
                              Message 14 of 24 , Feb 4, 2008
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                                ?

                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating
                                > out
                                > > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol
                                > down.
                                > >
                                > > The rule is:
                                > >
                                > > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                                > > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                                > > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                                > > which are the oils.
                                > >
                                > > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at
                                > 70%
                                > > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                                > >
                                > snip
                                > >
                                > > Bryan.
                                > >
                                > Hi, Bryan and folks,
                                >
                                > Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to
                                > reduce the alcohol to 'sipping level' could be stored at (say)70%
                                > abv, which would look nice in the bottle and save a lot of space.
                                > Then when you want to drink it you add (say) an equal
                                > quantity of water to the glass.
                                > And it goes a bit milky in the glass. So what?!
                                > So do some other drinks anyway. (Pernod, I think?)
                                >
                                > Sounds like a good idea.
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                > The Baker
                                >
                              • waljaco
                                So what?! Well the characteristic of a triple-sec is that it does not go cloudy, so you can add ice to Cointreau or Curacao and still have a clear drink. The
                                Message 15 of 24 , Feb 5, 2008
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                                  "So what?!" Well the characteristic of a triple-sec is that it does
                                  not go cloudy, so you can add ice to Cointreau or Curacao and still
                                  have a clear drink. The visual aspect is also important.
                                  wal
                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating
                                  > out
                                  > > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol
                                  > down.
                                  > >
                                  > > The rule is:
                                  > >
                                  > > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                                  > > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                                  > > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                                  > > which are the oils.
                                  > >
                                  > > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at
                                  > 70%
                                  > > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                                  > >
                                  > snip
                                  > >
                                  > > Bryan.
                                  > >
                                  > Hi, Bryan and folks,
                                  >
                                  > Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to
                                  > reduce the alcohol to 'sipping level' could be stored at (say)70%
                                  > abv, which would look nice in the bottle and save a lot of space.
                                  > Then when you want to drink it you add (say) an equal
                                  > quantity of water to the glass.
                                  > And it goes a bit milky in the glass. So what?!
                                  > So do some other drinks anyway. (Pernod, I think?)
                                  >
                                  > Sounds like a good idea.
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  > The Baker
                                  >
                                • gff_stwrt
                                  Thanks, Wal, and you re no doubt right as usual. Perhaps I should have said, tradition aside... ! At this stage of my hobby I am not much concerned with
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Feb 5, 2008
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                                    Thanks, Wal, and you're no doubt right as usual.
                                    Perhaps I should have said,"tradition aside..." !
                                    At this stage of my hobby I am not much concerned with making a
                                    product which is just the same as any well-known liqueur or spirit.
                                    I just want it to taste good. And look good.

                                    As I learn more I would love to try some of your traditional
                                    recipes, but I expect I will still be interested in trying different
                                    things, 'just to see if they work!'
                                    Thanks again for your help and encouragement.

                                    Regards,
                                    The Baker




                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "So what?!" Well the characteristic of a triple-sec is that it does
                                    > not go cloudy, so you can add ice to Cointreau or Curacao and still
                                    > have a clear drink. The visual aspect is also important.
                                    > wal
                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils
                                    precipitating
                                    > > out
                                    > > > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol
                                    > > down.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The rule is:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                                    > > > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is
                                    highly
                                    > > > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble
                                    ingredient,
                                    > > > which are the oils.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored
                                    at
                                    > > 70%
                                    > > > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                                    > > >
                                    > > snip
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Bryan.
                                    > > >
                                    > > Hi, Bryan and folks,
                                    > >
                                    > > Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to
                                    > > reduce the alcohol to 'sipping level' could be stored at (say)
                                    70%
                                    > > abv, which would look nice in the bottle and save a lot of
                                    space.
                                    > > Then when you want to drink it you add (say) an equal
                                    > > quantity of water to the glass.
                                    > > And it goes a bit milky in the glass. So what?!
                                    > > So do some other drinks anyway. (Pernod, I think?)
                                    > >
                                    > > Sounds like a good idea.
                                    > >
                                    > > Regards,
                                    > > The Baker
                                    > >
                                    >
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