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Tripple Sec - Advice please

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  • mm123.rm
    Hi All I m just having a go at some tripple sec which was made by steeping 80% spirit with bitter orange peel. It tasted fantastic if a little bitter - which I
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 24, 2008
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      Hi All

      I'm just having a go at some tripple sec which was made by steeping 80% spirit with bitter orange peel. It tasted fantastic if a little bitter - which I put down to not being able to remove all the pith when peeling. I was aiming for a nice, clear drink, so I strained the liquid and added equal parts water. It promptly threw a colloid which didn't matter because it all went into a pot still which I ran until I couldn't taste the orange anymore.

      It wound up at just under 70%. This is a little too strong for drinking - but the flavour is amazing. Unfortunately when I do test dilutions it forms a colloid again at about 55% A little stronger than I really want.

      So the questions and help :)

      Did I do anything wrong? Is this normal?
      Can I add sugar to this at the point where the colloid is about to form without it going milky?
      I still think it's a little too strong. Is there anything I can do better next time?

      Thanks a lot
      M

      Oh, the next project is orange wash (thin peelings and juice) which should be ready in about 2 weeks - I'll report back
    • waljaco
      Triple sec means triple dry but actually contains sugar (Cointreau is a triple sec). Possibly you used too much peel? Normally peel from 3 large oranges/litre
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 25, 2008
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        Triple sec means triple dry but actually contains sugar (Cointreau is
        a triple sec).
        Possibly you used too much peel? Normally peel from 3 large
        oranges/litre 50-55%abv neutral spirit - steep and redistil.
        wal
        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mm123.rm" <mm123@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi All
        >
        > I'm just having a go at some tripple sec which was made by steeping 80%
        > spirit with bitter orange peel. It tasted fantastic if a little bitter -
        > which I put down to not being able to remove all the pith when peeling.
        > I was aiming for a nice, clear drink, so I strained the liquid and added
        > equal parts water. It promptly threw a colloid which didn't matter
        > because it all went into a pot still which I ran until I couldn't taste
        > the orange anymore.
        >
        > It wound up at just under 70%. This is a little too strong for drinking
        > - but the flavour is amazing. Unfortunately when I do test dilutions it
        > forms a colloid again at about 55% A little stronger than I really want.
        >
        > So the questions and help [:)]
        >
        > Did I do anything wrong? Is this normal?
        > Can I add sugar to this at the point where the colloid is about to form
        > without it going milky?
        > I still think it's a little too strong. Is there anything I can do
        > better next time?
        >
        > Thanks a lot
        > M
        >
        > Oh, the next project is orange wash (thin peelings and juice) which
        > should be ready in about 2 weeks - I'll report back
        >
      • martin martins
        Hi Wal Yes Cointreau was something like I was aiming for. I think you might be right about using too much peel then, I probably used a lot more than three, I
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 25, 2008
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          Hi Wal

          Yes Cointreau was something like I was aiming for. I think you might be right about using too much peel then, I probably used a lot more than three, I was just peeling a shed-load while watching TV.

          I used Seville oranges and it does taste really good after the steeped liquor was put through the still again. Maybe there is too much oil from the oranges and I'll have another go with less peel. It's just a little too alcoholic to enjoy, I know throwing a colloid isn't damaging, but it doesn't look as nice.

          Thanks for your thoughts
          M

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: waljaco <waljaco@...>
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 12:09:08 PM
          Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please

          Triple sec means triple dry but actually contains sugar (Cointreau is
          a triple sec).
          Possibly you used too much peel? Normally peel from 3 large
          oranges/litre 50-55%abv neutral spirit - steep and redistil.
          wal




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        • bbornais
          Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating out of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol down. The rule is: Like
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 25, 2008
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            Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating out
            of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol down.

            The rule is:

            Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
            organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
            polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
            which are the oils.

            The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at 70%
            ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.

            you may just have extracted too many oils.

            You can try using less peel, or macerating closer to the ABV you
            wish to cut to.

            Sounds tasty.

            Bryan.


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Wal
            >
            > Yes Cointreau was something like I was aiming for. I think you
            might be right about using too much peel then, I probably used a lot
            more than three, I was just peeling a shed-load while watching TV.
            >
            > I used Seville oranges and it does taste really good after the
            steeped liquor was put through the still again. Maybe there is too
            much oil from the oranges and I'll have another go with less peel.
            It's just a little too alcoholic to enjoy, I know throwing a colloid
            isn't damaging, but it doesn't look as nice.
            >
            > Thanks for your thoughts
            > M
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: waljaco <waljaco@...>
            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 12:09:08 PM
            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Triple sec means triple dry but actually contains
            sugar (Cointreau is
            >
            > a triple sec).
            >
            > Possibly you used too much peel? Normally peel from 3 large
            >
            > oranges/litre 50-55%abv neutral spirit - steep and redistil.
            >
            > wal
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            _______________
            > Be a better friend, newshound, and
            > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
            http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
            >
          • waljaco
            Oh, also use demineralised water when diluting. Minerals in water cause clouding. Using raki as a comparison, I think 42-45%abv would be a preferable strength.
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 25, 2008
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              Oh, also use demineralised water when diluting. Minerals in water
              cause clouding. Using raki as a comparison, I think 42-45%abv would be
              a preferable strength.
              Is the Seville orange peel more bitter than the Valencia peel? I
              thought it was only the fruit itself that was bitter.
              wal
              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Wal
              >
              > Yes Cointreau was something like I was aiming for. I think you might
              be right about using too much peel then, I probably used a lot more
              than three, I was just peeling a shed-load while watching TV.
              >
              > I used Seville oranges and it does taste really good after the
              steeped liquor was put through the still again. Maybe there is too
              much oil from the oranges and I'll have another go with less peel.
              It's just a little too alcoholic to enjoy, I know throwing a colloid
              isn't damaging, but it doesn't look as nice.
              >
              > Thanks for your thoughts
              > M
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: waljaco <waljaco@...>
              > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 12:09:08 PM
              > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Triple sec means triple dry but actually contains sugar
              (Cointreau is
              >
              > a triple sec).
              >
              > Possibly you used too much peel? Normally peel from 3 large
              >
              > oranges/litre 50-55%abv neutral spirit - steep and redistil.
              >
              > wal
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              > Be a better friend, newshound, and
              > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
              http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
              >
            • sonum norbu
              Nice informative post. Thanks. I would normally call it it F&^%(%$#ing nice post but I didn t want to offend. :)) blanik ... Most of the troubles of the
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 26, 2008
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                Nice informative post. Thanks.

                I would normally call it it F&^%(%$#ing nice post but I didn't want to offend. :))

                blanik



                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: bbornais <bbornais@...>
                > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                > Date: Sat, 26 Jan:11:46 -0000
                >
                >
                > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating out
                > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol down.
                >
                > The rule is:
                >
                > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                > which are the oils.
                >
                > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at 70%
                > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                >
                > you may just have extracted too many oils.
                >
                > You can try using less peel, or macerating closer to the ABV you
                > wish to cut to.
                >
                > Sounds tasty.
                >
                > Bryan.
                >
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Wal
                > >
                > > Yes Cointreau was something like I was aiming for. I think you
                > might be right about using too much peel then, I probably used a lot
                > more than three, I was just peeling a shed-load while watching TV.
                > >
                > > I used Seville oranges and it does taste really good after the
                > steeped liquor was put through the still again. Maybe there is too
                > much oil from the oranges and I'll have another go with less peel.
                > It's just a little too alcoholic to enjoy, I know throwing a colloid
                > isn't damaging, but it doesn't look as nice.
                > >
                > > Thanks for your thoughts
                > > M
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message ----
                > > From: waljaco <waljaco@...>
                > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Friday, January 25,:09:08 PM
                > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Triple sec means triple dry but actually contains
                > sugar (Cointreau is
                > >
                > > a triple sec).
                > >
                > > Possibly you used too much peel? Normally peel from 3 large
                > >
                > > oranges/litre 50-55%abv neutral spirit - steep and redistil.
                > >
                > > wal
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > _____________________________________________________________________
                > _______________
                > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
                > > Mobile. Try it now.
                > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                > >

                >



                "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

                SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
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              • John Wisbey
                Now you are getting the idea!!!!! John Wisbey ... From: sonum norbu To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:28 AM Subject: Re:
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 26, 2008
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                  Now you are getting the idea!!!!!
                  John Wisbey
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:28 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please

                  Nice informative post. Thanks.

                  I would normally call it it F&^%(%$#ing nice post but I didn't want to offend. :))

                  blanik

                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: bbornais <bbornais@yahoo. com>
                  > To: Distillers@yahoogro ups.com
                  > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                  > Date: Sat, 26 Jan:11:46 -0000
                  >
                  >
                  > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating out
                  > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol down.
                  >
                  > The rule is:
                  >
                  > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                  > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                  > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                  > which are the oils.
                  >
                  > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at 70%
                  > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                  >
                  > you may just have extracted too many oils.
                  >
                  > You can try using less peel, or macerating closer to the ABV you
                  > wish to cut to.
                  >
                  > Sounds tasty.
                  >
                  > Bryan.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Wal
                  > >
                  > > Yes Cointreau was something like I was aiming for. I think you
                  > might be right about using too much peel then, I probably used a lot
                  > more than three, I was just peeling a shed-load while watching TV.
                  > >
                  > > I used Seville oranges and it does taste really good after the
                  > steeped liquor was put through the still again. Maybe there is too
                  > much oil from the oranges and I'll have another go with less peel.
                  > It's just a little too alcoholic to enjoy, I know throwing a colloid
                  > isn't damaging, but it doesn't look as nice.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for your thoughts
                  > > M
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > From: waljaco <waljaco@... >
                  > > To: Distillers@yahoogro ups.com
                  > > Sent: Friday, January 25,:09:08 PM
                  > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Triple sec means triple dry but actually contains
                  > sugar (Cointreau is
                  > >
                  > > a triple sec).
                  > >
                  > > Possibly you used too much peel? Normally peel from 3 large
                  > >
                  > > oranges/litre 50-55%abv neutral spirit - steep and redistil.
                  > >
                  > > wal
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                  > ____________ ___
                  > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
                  > > Mobile. Try it now.
                  > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
                  > >

                  >

                  "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

                  SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
                  http://www.angelfir e.com/fl2/ cloudbase/

                  --
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                • Rasmus
                  I ve made quite a few cointreau-like distillations and you doing absolutely right but you need to dillute it with alcohol. If you want it clear at 40% (or ~50%
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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                    I've made quite a few cointreau-like distillations and you doing
                    absolutely right but you need to dillute it with alcohol. If you want
                    it clear at 40% (or ~50% if you want to add sugar syryp), just dillute
                    it with pure alcohol+water until it gets clear. The taste will still
                    be intense enough.

                    I always use invert sugar syryp which you easily can make yourself.
                    Here's a recipy:

                    0,5 liter:
                    416 grams of sugar = 0.26 liter
                    0.3 liter of water
                    A little pinch of citric acid, half a millilitre or so.

                    Let it simmer for 15 minutes.
                    Ready to add to your cointreau base.

                    If you want you can also add a little glycerol to make it even better.
                    I've never done that though so I can't guide you to how much.

                    /Vini


                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Wal
                    >
                    > Yes Cointreau was something like I was aiming for. I think you might
                    be right about using too much peel then, I probably used a lot more
                    than three, I was just peeling a shed-load while watching TV.
                    >
                    > I used Seville oranges and it does taste really good after the
                    steeped liquor was put through the still again. Maybe there is too
                    much oil from the oranges and I'll have another go with less peel.
                    It's just a little too alcoholic to enjoy, I know throwing a colloid
                    isn't damaging, but it doesn't look as nice.
                    >
                    > Thanks for your thoughts
                    > M
                    >
                  • justin webster
                    hmmm, So I tried my first batch with molasses only (5kg) and sat down to distill it last night. unfortunately the molasses wash seemed to want to foam up with
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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                      hmmm,
                      So I tried my first batch with molasses only (5kg) and sat down to
                      distill it last night.

                      unfortunately the molasses wash seemed to want to foam up with the
                      slightest provocation.
                      as soon as the still got up to temp and started producing, the foam
                      would reach the top of the still and into the condenser.
                      so I removed nearly half of the wash and tried again. it would go a
                      little longer before foaming over but there was no way I could leave
                      it distilling by itself for more than a minute.

                      I spent a couple of hours switching the power on and off to keep it
                      just below foaming but eventually gave up when I realised the small
                      amount of rum I had produced was both weak and foul.

                      also I noticed another strange effect:
                      whenever it foamed over, I would left it cool and wait for the foam
                      to settle.
                      as the still heated back up I would get a lot of steam escaping the
                      condenser as well as some condensed alcohol.
                      once I got the still back up to 78 (by careful power management) the
                      steam ceased.
                      I had a guess that the hot steam in a cooler environment was more
                      forcefully trying to exit through the condenser and hence was only
                      partially condensed.
                      I also ended up with a pretty weak distillate of around 35% which
                      seemed strange since the temperature never got above 85.

                      any thoughts much appreciated.
                      justin
                    • Harry
                      ... to ... the ... foam ... a ... leave ... it ... small ... foam ... the ... the ... only ... Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > hmmm,
                        > So I tried my first batch with molasses only (5kg) and sat down
                        to
                        > distill it last night.
                        >
                        > unfortunately the molasses wash seemed to want to foam up with
                        the
                        > slightest provocation.
                        > as soon as the still got up to temp and started producing, the
                        foam
                        > would reach the top of the still and into the condenser.
                        > so I removed nearly half of the wash and tried again. it would go
                        a
                        > little longer before foaming over but there was no way I could
                        leave
                        > it distilling by itself for more than a minute.
                        >
                        > I spent a couple of hours switching the power on and off to keep
                        it
                        > just below foaming but eventually gave up when I realised the
                        small
                        > amount of rum I had produced was both weak and foul.
                        >
                        > also I noticed another strange effect:
                        > whenever it foamed over, I would left it cool and wait for the
                        foam
                        > to settle.
                        > as the still heated back up I would get a lot of steam escaping
                        the
                        > condenser as well as some condensed alcohol.
                        > once I got the still back up to 78 (by careful power management)
                        the
                        > steam ceased.
                        > I had a guess that the hot steam in a cooler environment was more
                        > forcefully trying to exit through the condenser and hence was
                        only
                        > partially condensed.
                        > I also ended up with a pretty weak distillate of around 35% which
                        > seemed strange since the temperature never got above 85.
                        >
                        > any thoughts much appreciated.
                        > justin
                        >


                        Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
                        and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree
                        by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension,
                        usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap! (animal
                        fat, no perfumes).
                        The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column
                        capacity.

                        Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious
                        for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
                        http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/


                        Slainte!
                        regards Harry
                      • martin martins
                        Thanks very much everyone. For my first attempt it s good to know I wasn t that far off and I ll refine it for next time. I ll let you all know how the orange
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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                          Thanks very much everyone.

                          For my first attempt it's good to know I wasn't that far off and I'll refine it for next time.

                          I'll let you all know how the orange wash turns out in a couple of weeks time, I've two gallons to run through and it smells fantastic right now.

                          M

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Rasmus <wineifera@...>
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:30:55 AM
                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please

                          I've made quite a few cointreau-like distillations and you doing
                          absolutely right but you need to dillute it with alcohol. If you want
                          it clear at 40% (or ~50% if you want to add sugar syryp), just dillute
                          it with pure alcohol+water until it gets clear. The taste will still
                          be intense enough.

                          I always use invert sugar syryp which you easily can make yourself.
                          Here's a recipy:

                          0,5 liter:
                          416 grams of sugar = 0.26 liter
                          0.3 liter of water
                          A little pinch of citric acid, half a millilitre or so.

                          Let it simmer for 15 minutes.
                          Ready to add to your cointreau base.

                          If you want you can also add a little glycerol to make it even better.
                          I've never done that though so I can't guide you to how much.

                          /Vini




                          Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                        • abbababbaccc
                          Harry, As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling causes them to form
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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                            Harry,

                            As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left
                            in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling
                            causes them to form that sticky foam. As you boil the mash further
                            they slowly clump together and sink to the bottom of the boiler,
                            thus no more foam. The trick is to boil it slow enough to in order
                            to prevent that foam getting out of control. After an hour or so the
                            foam usually clears and you can up the power. It's a great help if
                            you can observe the foaming event inside the boiler while doing
                            this. Adding butter and salt won't hurt either.

                            Cheers, Riku

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
                            > and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree
                            > by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension,
                            > usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap!
                            (animal
                            > fat, no perfumes).
                            > The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column
                            > capacity.
                            >
                            > Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious
                            > for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
                            > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
                            >
                            >
                            > Slainte!
                            > regards Harry
                            >
                          • waljaco
                            Unfermentable sugars are also a source of the problem - especially in rum as molasses does not have much protein. wal
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 27, 2008
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                              Unfermentable sugars are also a source of the problem - especially in
                              rum as molasses does not have much protein.
                              wal
                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Harry,
                              >
                              > As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left
                              > in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling
                              > causes them to form that sticky foam. As you boil the mash further
                              > they slowly clump together and sink to the bottom of the boiler,
                              > thus no more foam. The trick is to boil it slow enough to in order
                              > to prevent that foam getting out of control. After an hour or so the
                              > foam usually clears and you can up the power. It's a great help if
                              > you can observe the foaming event inside the boiler while doing
                              > this. Adding butter and salt won't hurt either.
                              >
                              > Cheers, Riku
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
                              > > and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree
                              > > by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension,
                              > > usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap!
                              > (animal
                              > > fat, no perfumes).
                              > > The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column
                              > > capacity.
                              > >
                              > > Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious
                              > > for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
                              > > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Slainte!
                              > > regards Harry
                              > >
                              >
                            • justin webster
                              In my case the foam just didn t stop. I tired letting it cool down quite a bit as well as adding salt. no difference at all. so I gave up and let it cool right
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
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                                In my case the foam just didn't stop.
                                I tired letting it cool down quite a bit as well as adding salt. no difference at all.
                                so I gave up and let it cool right down.

                                a generous splash of peanut oil (what I had on hand) next morning fixed the issue completely.
                                does anyone know of any side effect to adding vegetable oils?
                                can it add or change the flavours?

                                thanks for the input,
                                justin

                                On 28/01/2008, at 8:38 PM, waljaco wrote:

                                Unfermentable sugars are also a source of the problem - especially in
                                rum as molasses does not have much protein.
                                wal
                                --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com , "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@ ...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Harry,
                                > 
                                > As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left 
                                > in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling 
                                > causes them to form that sticky foam. As you boil the mash further 
                                > they slowly clump together and sink to the bottom of the boiler, 
                                > thus no more foam. The trick is to boil it slow enough to in order 
                                > to prevent that foam getting out of control. After an hour or so the 
                                > foam usually clears and you can up the power. It's a great help if 
                                > you can observe the foaming event inside the boiler while doing 
                                > this. Adding butter and salt won't hurt either.
                                > 
                                > Cheers, Riku
                                > 
                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com , "Harry" <gnikomson2000@ > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > 
                                > > 
                                > > Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column 
                                > > and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree 
                                > > by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension, 
                                > > usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap! 
                                > (animal 
                                > > fat, no perfumes).
                                > > The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column 
                                > > capacity.
                                > > 
                                > > Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious 
                                > > for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
                                > > http://distillers. tastylime. net/library/
                                > > 
                                > > 
                                > > Slainte!
                                > > regards Harry
                                > >
                                >


                              • waljaco
                                Butter is not recommended as it can give a butterscotch flavour (forgot the chemical responsible). Traditionally pure hard soda (unperfumed) was used. It also
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Butter is not recommended as it can give a butterscotch flavour
                                  (forgot the chemical responsible). Traditionally pure hard soda
                                  (unperfumed) was used. It also apparently removed fusels. 40g
                                  soap/litre of low wines (Distillation and Rectification of Alcohol. W
                                  T Brannt, 1885)
                                  wal
                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, justin webster <mail@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > In my case the foam just didn't stop.
                                  > I tired letting it cool down quite a bit as well as adding salt. no
                                  > difference at all.
                                  > so I gave up and let it cool right down.
                                  >
                                  > a generous splash of peanut oil (what I had on hand) next morning
                                  > fixed the issue completely.
                                  > does anyone know of any side effect to adding vegetable oils?
                                  > can it add or change the flavours?
                                  >
                                  > thanks for the input,
                                  > justin
                                  >
                                  > On 28/01/2008, at 8:38 PM, waljaco wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Unfermentable sugars are also a source of the problem - especially in
                                  > > rum as molasses does not have much protein.
                                  > > wal
                                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Harry,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > As I understand it the reason behind foaming are those proteins left
                                  > > > in the mash from sparging. The rolling action from fast boiling
                                  > > > causes them to form that sticky foam. As you boil the mash further
                                  > > > they slowly clump together and sink to the bottom of the boiler,
                                  > > > thus no more foam. The trick is to boil it slow enough to in order
                                  > > > to prevent that foam getting out of control. After an hour or so the
                                  > > > foam usually clears and you can up the power. It's a great help if
                                  > > > you can observe the foaming event inside the boiler while doing
                                  > > > this. Adding butter and salt won't hurt either.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Cheers, Riku
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Foaming is caused by too much power driving too small a column
                                  > > > > and/or too much beer in the boiler. You can remedy it to a degree
                                  > > > > by putting something in the wash to break the surface tension,
                                  > > > > usually an oil such as butter or veg oil or even pure soap!
                                  > > > (animal
                                  > > > > fat, no perfumes).
                                  > > > > The best remedy is to reduce your power input to match your column
                                  > > > > capacity.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Having said that, be aware also that molasses washes are notorious
                                  > > > > for foaming. Read about molasses as a feedstock in my Library...
                                  > > > > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Slainte!
                                  > > > > regards Harry
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Harry
                                  ... The chemical is Diacetyl. Not liked in beers (hence the diacetyl rest , look it up), but usually present and much better tolerated (small amounts, ppm)
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Butter is not recommended as it can give a butterscotch flavour
                                    > (forgot the chemical responsible). Traditionally pure hard soda
                                    > (unperfumed) was used. It also apparently removed fusels. 40g
                                    > soap/litre of low wines (Distillation and Rectification of Alcohol. W
                                    > T Brannt, 1885)
                                    > wal



                                    The chemical is Diacetyl. Not liked in beers (hence the 'diacetyl
                                    rest', look it up), but usually present and much better tolerated
                                    (small amounts, ppm) in Scotch Whiskies. For this reason butter is
                                    acceptable as a surface tension reducer in whiskies as it blends in
                                    with the usual profile of Scotches.

                                    However, the original poster was talking about molasses washes.
                                    Butter is not the first choice for that, but if nothing else is
                                    available, it's better than having the whole thing 'puke'.

                                    Slainte!
                                    regards Harry
                                  • Vini
                                    You actually don t need to macerate it very long or at all. The heat when boiling is enough to draw out the taste, the essential oils. /Vini ... I ll refine it
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
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                                      You actually don't need to macerate it very long or at all. The heat
                                      when boiling is enough to draw out the taste, the essential oils.

                                      /Vini


                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Thanks very much everyone.
                                      >
                                      > For my first attempt it's good to know I wasn't that far off and
                                      I'll refine it for next time.
                                      >
                                      > I'll let you all know how the orange wash turns out in a couple of
                                      weeks time, I've two gallons to run through and it smells fantastic
                                      right now.
                                      >
                                      > M
                                      >
                                      > it clear at 40% (or ~50% if you want to add sugar syryp), just dillute
                                      >
                                      > it with pure alcohol+water until it gets clear. The taste will still
                                      >
                                      > be intense enough.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I always use invert sugar syryp which you easily can make yourself.
                                      >
                                      > Here's a recipy:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 0,5 liter:
                                      >
                                      > 416 grams of sugar = 0.26 liter
                                      >
                                      > 0.3 liter of water
                                      >
                                      > A little pinch of citric acid, half a millilitre or so.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Let it simmer for 15 minutes.
                                      >
                                      > Ready to add to your cointreau base.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > If you want you can also add a little glycerol to make it even better.
                                      >
                                      > I've never done that though so I can't guide you to how much.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > /Vini
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                      > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                      >
                                    • toddk63
                                      I use Manteca (Pork lard for tamales) but only for the strip . I don t need it for the spirit run. Todd K.
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
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                                        I use Manteca (Pork lard for tamales) but only for the strip . I
                                        don't need it for the spirit run.

                                        Todd K.

                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Butter is not recommended as it can give a butterscotch flavour
                                        > > (forgot the chemical responsible). Traditionally pure hard soda
                                        > > (unperfumed) was used. It also apparently removed fusels. 40g
                                        > > soap/litre of low wines (Distillation and Rectification of Alcohol. W
                                        > > T Brannt, 1885)
                                        > > wal
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The chemical is Diacetyl. Not liked in beers (hence the 'diacetyl
                                        > rest', look it up), but usually present and much better tolerated
                                        > (small amounts, ppm) in Scotch Whiskies. For this reason butter is
                                        > acceptable as a surface tension reducer in whiskies as it blends in
                                        > with the usual profile of Scotches.
                                        >
                                        > However, the original poster was talking about molasses washes.
                                        > Butter is not the first choice for that, but if nothing else is
                                        > available, it's better than having the whole thing 'puke'.
                                        >
                                        > Slainte!
                                        > regards Harry
                                        >
                                      • sonum norbu
                                        Nah, not at all. Just playing games kids games with the f@^%&ing kids. LOLOLO F ing L blanik ... Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jan 28, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Nah, not at all. Just playing games kids games with the f@^%&ing kids. LOLOLO F'ing L

                                          blanik



                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: "John Wisbey" <johnwisbey@...>
                                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                                          > Date: Sun, 27 Jan:21:45 +0100
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Now you are getting the idea!!!!!
                                          > John Wisbey
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: sonum norbu
                                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:28 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Nice informative post. Thanks.
                                          >
                                          > I would normally call it it F&^%(%$#ing nice post but I didn't
                                          > want to offend. :))
                                          >
                                          > blanik
                                          >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: bbornais <bbornais@...>
                                          > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                                          > > Date: Sat, 26 Jan:11:46 -0000
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating out
                                          > > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol down.
                                          > >
                                          > > The rule is:
                                          > >
                                          > > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                                          > > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                                          > > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                                          > > which are the oils.
                                          > >
                                          > > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at 70%
                                          > > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                                          > >
                                          > > you may just have extracted too many oils.
                                          > >
                                          > > You can try using less peel, or macerating closer to the ABV you
                                          > > wish to cut to.
                                          > >
                                          > > Sounds tasty.
                                          > >
                                          > > Bryan.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Hi Wal
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Yes Cointreau was something like I was aiming for. I think you
                                          > > might be right about using too much peel then, I probably used a lot
                                          > > more than three, I was just peeling a shed-load while watching TV.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I used Seville oranges and it does taste really good after the
                                          > > steeped liquor was put through the still again. Maybe there is too
                                          > > much oil from the oranges and I'll have another go with less peel.
                                          > > It's just a little too alcoholic to enjoy, I know throwing a colloid
                                          > > isn't damaging, but it doesn't look as nice.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thanks for your thoughts
                                          > > > M
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > > > From: waljaco <waljaco@...>
                                          > > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > Sent: Friday, January 25,:09:08 PM
                                          > > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Tripple Sec - Advice please
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Triple sec means triple dry but actually contains
                                          > > sugar (Cointreau is
                                          > > >
                                          > > > a triple sec).
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Possibly you used too much peel? Normally peel from 3 large
                                          > > >
                                          > > > oranges/litre 50-55%abv neutral spirit - steep and redistil.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > wal
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > __________________________________________________________
                                          > > _______________
                                          > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
                                          > > > Mobile. Try it now.
                                          > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                                          > > >
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings".
                                          > (Shakyamuni Buddha)
                                          >
                                          > SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
                                          > http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/
                                          >
                                          > --
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                                          > Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
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                                          >



                                          "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

                                          SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
                                          http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



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                                        • morganfield1
                                          You re just trying to push the F word up to NO. 1!!! Tip one, Morgan ... kids. LOLOLO F ing L
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jan 29, 2008
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                                            You're just trying to push the F word up to NO. 1!!!

                                            Tip one, Morgan

                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Nah, not at all. Just playing games kids games with the f@^%&ing
                                            kids. LOLOLO F'ing L
                                            >
                                            > blanik
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > >
                                          • gff_stwrt
                                            ... out ... down. ... 70% ... snip ... Hi, Bryan and folks, Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to reduce the alcohol to sipping level
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Feb 4 6:39 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating
                                              out
                                              > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol
                                              down.
                                              >
                                              > The rule is:
                                              >
                                              > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                                              > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                                              > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                                              > which are the oils.
                                              >
                                              > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at
                                              70%
                                              > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                                              >
                                              snip
                                              >
                                              > Bryan.
                                              >
                                              Hi, Bryan and folks,

                                              Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to
                                              reduce the alcohol to 'sipping level' could be stored at (say)70%
                                              abv, which would look nice in the bottle and save a lot of space.
                                              Then when you want to drink it you add (say) an equal
                                              quantity of water to the glass.
                                              And it goes a bit milky in the glass. So what?!
                                              So do some other drinks anyway. (Pernod, I think?)

                                              Sounds like a good idea.

                                              Regards,
                                              The Baker
                                            • bbornais
                                              ?
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Feb 4 8:48 AM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                ?

                                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating
                                                > out
                                                > > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol
                                                > down.
                                                > >
                                                > > The rule is:
                                                > >
                                                > > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                                                > > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                                                > > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                                                > > which are the oils.
                                                > >
                                                > > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at
                                                > 70%
                                                > > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                                                > >
                                                > snip
                                                > >
                                                > > Bryan.
                                                > >
                                                > Hi, Bryan and folks,
                                                >
                                                > Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to
                                                > reduce the alcohol to 'sipping level' could be stored at (say)70%
                                                > abv, which would look nice in the bottle and save a lot of space.
                                                > Then when you want to drink it you add (say) an equal
                                                > quantity of water to the glass.
                                                > And it goes a bit milky in the glass. So what?!
                                                > So do some other drinks anyway. (Pernod, I think?)
                                                >
                                                > Sounds like a good idea.
                                                >
                                                > Regards,
                                                > The Baker
                                                >
                                              • waljaco
                                                So what?! Well the characteristic of a triple-sec is that it does not go cloudy, so you can add ice to Cointreau or Curacao and still have a clear drink. The
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Feb 5 2:34 AM
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  "So what?!" Well the characteristic of a triple-sec is that it does
                                                  not go cloudy, so you can add ice to Cointreau or Curacao and still
                                                  have a clear drink. The visual aspect is also important.
                                                  wal
                                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils precipitating
                                                  > out
                                                  > > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol
                                                  > down.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > The rule is:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                                                  > > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is highly
                                                  > > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble ingredient,
                                                  > > which are the oils.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored at
                                                  > 70%
                                                  > > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                                                  > >
                                                  > snip
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Bryan.
                                                  > >
                                                  > Hi, Bryan and folks,
                                                  >
                                                  > Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to
                                                  > reduce the alcohol to 'sipping level' could be stored at (say)70%
                                                  > abv, which would look nice in the bottle and save a lot of space.
                                                  > Then when you want to drink it you add (say) an equal
                                                  > quantity of water to the glass.
                                                  > And it goes a bit milky in the glass. So what?!
                                                  > So do some other drinks anyway. (Pernod, I think?)
                                                  >
                                                  > Sounds like a good idea.
                                                  >
                                                  > Regards,
                                                  > The Baker
                                                  >
                                                • gff_stwrt
                                                  Thanks, Wal, and you re no doubt right as usual. Perhaps I should have said, tradition aside... ! At this stage of my hobby I am not much concerned with
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Feb 5 5:40 AM
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                                                    Thanks, Wal, and you're no doubt right as usual.
                                                    Perhaps I should have said,"tradition aside..." !
                                                    At this stage of my hobby I am not much concerned with making a
                                                    product which is just the same as any well-known liqueur or spirit.
                                                    I just want it to taste good. And look good.

                                                    As I learn more I would love to try some of your traditional
                                                    recipes, but I expect I will still be interested in trying different
                                                    things, 'just to see if they work!'
                                                    Thanks again for your help and encouragement.

                                                    Regards,
                                                    The Baker




                                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > "So what?!" Well the characteristic of a triple-sec is that it does
                                                    > not go cloudy, so you can add ice to Cointreau or Curacao and still
                                                    > have a clear drink. The visual aspect is also important.
                                                    > wal
                                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Sounds about right. The clouding is from the oils
                                                    precipitating
                                                    > > out
                                                    > > > of solution as you drive the solubilizing power of the alcohol
                                                    > > down.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > The rule is:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Like dissolves like. The oils in the orange are slightly polar
                                                    > > > organic, and so is the ethanol. As you add water, which is
                                                    highly
                                                    > > > polar aqueous phase, you drive out the least soluble
                                                    ingredient,
                                                    > > > which are the oils.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > The same thing happens with Absinthe. This is why it is stored
                                                    at
                                                    > > 70%
                                                    > > > ABV, then cut back with water, causing the louche.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > snip
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Bryan.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > Hi, Bryan and folks,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Okay, so a liqueur that goes milky when you add water to
                                                    > > reduce the alcohol to 'sipping level' could be stored at (say)
                                                    70%
                                                    > > abv, which would look nice in the bottle and save a lot of
                                                    space.
                                                    > > Then when you want to drink it you add (say) an equal
                                                    > > quantity of water to the glass.
                                                    > > And it goes a bit milky in the glass. So what?!
                                                    > > So do some other drinks anyway. (Pernod, I think?)
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Sounds like a good idea.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Regards,
                                                    > > The Baker
                                                    > >
                                                    >
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