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Re: StillDrinkin.com GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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  • jamesonbeam1
    Hi Peggy, Yes you are sort of correct - it is legal to own a still for decorative purposes like on a wall or in a salon or as a lamp (i ment to say own a still
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 5, 2007
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      Hi Peggy,

      Yes you are sort of correct - it is legal to own a still for
      decorative purposes like on a wall or in a salon or as a lamp (i ment
      to say own a still without permit ot operate)...

      However, if by some remote chance the ATF or my friendly local
      sheriffs, of whom ive met many, did come into my house (which they
      have on occasion from other problems) with a search warrent and found
      2 - 12 gallon primary fermenters filled with corn mash in various
      stages of fermentation, along with proof and wine hydrometers, yeast,
      acid blend, yeast nutrients, iodine, PH test strips, glycerine, mason
      jars (some filled with shine), and many pounds of sugar, corn meal,
      flaked corn, liquid malt, etc,etc... along with disassembled still
      components, then....

      I believe i would be in deep caca from a little known legal term
      known as "intent to process...." as stated below.

      But thanks for the info.

      Vino es Veritas,
      Jim.



      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Sherman is correct. I have a friend (although not a close friend)
      in
      > law enforcement that I trust. I threw a hypothetical question at
      him
      > the other day and asked how he felt about people making moonshine
      as a
      > hobby. His reply was that it was none of his business as long as
      you
      > were within the 5 gallon per year limit. This was a law enforcement
      > officer of 15 years saying that he was pretty sure the law allowed
      you
      > to make 5 gallons per year of shine for personal use. I asked him
      to
      > check it out for me and he immediately got on the phone to a ATF
      agent
      > friend of his and asked the guy to clarify the issue for him. My
      name
      > was never mentioned during this. The agent replied on speaker phone
      > that it was in fact illegal to own a still in the US without a
      permit.
      > Possession of less than 3 gallons of shine is a misdemeanor and
      over a
      > felony I believe is what he said. Afterward my friend smiled at me
      > and said that we should forget that we had the conversation to begin
      > with. This is not the first person in law enforcement to tell me
      they
      > thought it was legal. I had an ATF agent a few years ago when i was
      > still toying with the idea tell me that she "THOUGHT" it was legal
      to
      > make a small amount for personal use.
      > The bottom line seems to be that some if not a lot of law
      enforcement
      > think that shine is like wine and beer. You can make a little you
      > just cant sell it. Simply not true. But it does seem to be a bit
      > fuzzy to alot of people. We can Buy and sell books on the subject,
      > We can buy and sell stills on the internet and Ebay legally?, We
      can
      > buy products legally that are specific to the hobby of illegal
      > distilling, we can legally discuss what we illegally do on this
      > forum. But if we get caught were in trouble. Sounds like entrapment
      > to me. As alot of have said before. Maybe they just don't bother
      > with us anymore. I will continue on as will most of us who enjoy
      this
      > hobby. But I will always be looking over my shoulder while
      operating
      > my still. I will also be keeping the door shut, and the exhaust fan
      > on high.
      >
      > Mason
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I hate to be disagreeable but there exists an excellent example
      of a
      > > case where it is illegal.
      > > This is a current law and is from the Kentucky Revised Statutes.
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
      -
      > > 244.170 Apparatus for unlawful manufacture prohibited.
      > > No person shall buy, bargain, sell, loan, own, possess or
      knowingly
      > > transport any apparatus designed for the unlawful manufacture of
      > > alcoholic beverages.
      > > Effective: October 1, 1942
      > > History: Recodified 1942 Ky. Acts ch. 208, sec. 1, effective
      October
      > > 1, 1942, from Ky.
      > > Stat. sec. 2554b-67.
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
      -
      > > 244.990 Penalties.
      > > (2) Any person who violates KRS 244.170 shall, upon the first
      > > conviction, be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Upon a second
      > > conviction he shall be guilty of a Class D felony. Upon the third
      and
      > > each subsequent conviction, he shall be guilty of a Class C
      felony.
      > >
      > > Just thought your should know.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy" <rpk@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello James,
      > > >
      > > > Ownership of a still is not illegal in the United States.
      > Operating the
      > > > still without a permit is illegal. It is fine to sell stills
      and the
      > > > function is optional. The system of sales reporting for
      > > distilleries is not
      > > > mandatory either nor is the manufacturing except for the 'unique
      > > number' to
      > > > be affixed to each functional, operating, and permitted still.
      > This may
      > > > sound like gun control. I hope it doesn't get that bad for us.
      > > Remember
      > > > this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.
      > > >
      > > > Peggy
      >
    • jamesonbeam1
      ... -snip - Remember - this country was founded by a bunch of rebels. Peggy Yup, guess you are so correct there too. I is somewhat of a rebel lol :):):) Keep
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 5, 2007
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy" <rpk@> wrote:

        -snip -
        Remember -
        this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.

        Peggy

        Yup, guess you are so correct there too.
        I is somewhat of a rebel lol :):):)

        Keep the faith and Vino es Veritas,
        Jim.
      • Derek Hamlet
        ... It s important to remember how many of our laws about distilling came into effect. It has little to do with prohibition, public health or any of the other
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 5, 2007
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          At 07:11 AM 12/5/2007, you wrote:
          >Remember -
          >this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.

          It's important to remember how many of our laws about distilling came
          into effect.
          It has little to do with prohibition, public health or any of the
          other BS arguments put forward by spin doctors and politicians.
          In the early days, (when George Washington still had a still) new
          settlers from Europe headed out into the hinterlands. Many of these
          people came from European roots with strong distilling traditions
          such as the Irish.
          Roads were little more than tracks.
          These folks often ended up farming and corn was fairly easy to grow.
          Getting the product to market involved wagons, animals and tracks
          that broke wheels and terrain that was daunting.
          Some folks distilled their product into alcohol and found not only
          could a mule carry two barrels of alcohol to market, the price was
          virtually the same as the price for corn. This was a no brainer.
          Enter the established distillers, the concept of lobbying, government
          (even though rebel raised) eager for taxes and you have a recipe for
          making distilling illegal.
          Bastards!
          I'd be guessing the annual costs to society of alcohol abuse of
          highly purified products produced by rich bastard distilling
          companies is far more than the social ills of "freelancers" over the
          entire history of the USof A.
          My apologies to all the non North Americans who chose to read
          this. I'm guessing the histories in Aus, NZ, Sweden or wherever is
          much the same.
          The good news for those of us that make product for ourselves and
          close friends is that there are way more important social ills for
          the forces of law and order to investigate than whether you and I are
          producing a few gallons of hooch every year.
          I never give it a thought, but I am also circumspect.


          Derek
          "From the cradle to the crypt it's a mighty short trip
          So you'd better get it while you can!"
          -from the Ballad of Carl Martin by Steve Goodman
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