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StillDrinkin.com GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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  • mmmaaattt85
    Cant get ahold of rob and he has my money!!!! So stupid of me, Sent a money order!!!! Anyone know anything that could help me get my money back? All help would
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 10, 2007
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      Cant get ahold of rob and he has my money!!!!
      So stupid of me, Sent a money order!!!!

      Anyone know anything that could help me get my money back?

      All help would be great, Thanks guys
    • kro3us
      ... heyyyyyyyyyyy went thru the same thing,,,,,,,,,just keep calling them and complainig,of course u said they wont answer,,,,,,,,but try again and
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 10, 2007
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mmmaaattt85" <mmmaaattt85@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Cant get ahold of rob and he has my money!!!!
        > So stupid of me, Sent a money order!!!!
        >
        > Anyone know anything that could help me get my money back?
        >
        > All help would be great, Thanks guys
        >
        heyyyyyyyyyyy went thru the same thing,,,,,,,,,just keep calling them
        and complainig,of course u said they wont answer,,,,,,,,but try again
        and bitch,,,,,,,,thats what i had to do,,,,u do get your stuff but they
        are slow,,,,,,,but if u complain they will say they will move your
        order up
      • Sven Pfitt
        That is a shame that they offer such piss poor service. I tried going to their web site and it is still Under Construction . I think it has been that way for
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 12, 2007
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          That is a shame that they offer such piss poor service.

          I tried going to their web site and it is still 'Under Construction'.

          I think it has been that way for quite a while as I remember.

          Sven



          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kro3us" <kro3us@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mmmaaattt85" <mmmaaattt85@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Cant get ahold of rob and he has my money!!!!
          > > So stupid of me, Sent a money order!!!!
          > >
          > > Anyone know anything that could help me get my money back?
          > >
          > > All help would be great, Thanks guys
          > >
          > heyyyyyyyyyyy went thru the same thing,,,,,,,,,just keep calling them
          > and complainig,of course u said they wont answer,,,,,,,,but try again
          > and bitch,,,,,,,,thats what i had to do,,,,u do get your stuff but they
          > are slow,,,,,,,but if u complain they will say they will move your
          > order up
          >
        • Larry
          ... All things considered, The World likely wouldn t be any worse off without them, but I have to wonder if they re still doing business. They used to sell
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 12, 2007
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            At 09:02 PM 09/12/2007, you wrote:

            That is a shame that they offer such piss poor service.
            I tried going to their web site and it is still 'Under Construction'.
            I think it has been that way for quite a while as I remember.

            All things considered, The World likely wouldn't be any worse off without them, but I have to wonder if they're still doing business.

            They used to sell those pieces of Still on Ebay constantly, and last time I looked they didn't have anything up there.

            Now, their website is down.  Hmmm...

          • mmmaaattt85
            I can still get into there site www.stilldrinkin.com
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 12, 2007
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              I can "still" get into there site

              www.stilldrinkin.com
            • Sven Pfitt
              Yup, I wonder why I couldn t get to it yesterday.
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 13, 2007
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                Yup, I wonder why I couldn't get to it yesterday.

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mmmaaattt85" <mmmaaattt85@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I can "still" get into there site
                >
                > www.stilldrinkin.com
                >
              • Harry
                ... Hopefully Sherlock s magnifying glass only reveals enlarged text, not a company policy. Slainte! regards Harry
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 14, 2007
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mmmaaattt85" <mmmaaattt85@...> wrote:
                  >



                  Hopefully Sherlock's magnifying glass only reveals enlarged text, not a company policy.

                  Slainte!

                  regards Harry

                • georgetoddly
                  yea i ordered a venom a couple weeks ago. Still haven t got it. Just called and guy said he would check on it and get back to me. Not sure whats thats all
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 21, 2007
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                    yea i ordered a venom a couple weeks ago. Still haven't got it. Just
                    called and guy said he would check on it and get back to me. Not sure
                    whats thats all about. I used a credit card though so ill just turn
                    it over to my cc company if something doesn't get done pretty soon.


                    I don't want to get way off topic here but has anyone actually
                    received one of these stills? Kind of wanting to know if they are any
                    good.
                  • kro3us
                    ... yes i received mine,works great,,,,,,but wouldnt be hard to build one,,but any way,,,,,,i kept callling and they said they woudl move my order u and i got
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 21, 2007
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                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "georgetoddly" <georgetoddly@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > yea i ordered a venom a couple weeks ago. Still haven't got it. Just
                      > called and guy said he would check on it and get back to me. Not sure
                      > whats thats all about. I used a credit card though so ill just turn
                      > it over to my cc company if something doesn't get done pretty soon.
                      >
                      >
                      > I don't want to get way off topic here but has anyone actually
                      > received one of these stills? Kind of wanting to know if they are any
                      > good.
                      >
                      yes i received mine,works great,,,,,,but wouldnt be hard to build
                      one,,but any way,,,,,,i kept callling and they said they woudl move my
                      order u and i got it
                    • Gerhard Stemmler
                      What is a venom? Kind of a snake poison? Gerhard ... From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kro3us Sent: Saturday,
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 21, 2007
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                        What is a venom?  Kind of a snake poison?

                         

                        Gerhard

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kro3us
                        Sent:
                        Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:49 AM
                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: StillDrinkin.com GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

                         

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "georgetoddly" <georgetoddly@ ...>
                        wrote:

                        >
                        > yea i ordered a venom a couple weeks ago. Still haven't got it. Just
                        > called and guy said he would check on it and get back to me. Not sure
                        > whats thats all about. I used a credit card though so ill just turn
                        > it over to my cc company if something doesn't get done pretty soon.
                        >
                        >
                        > I don't want to get way off topic here but has anyone actually
                        > received one of these stills? Kind of wanting to know if they are any
                        > good.
                        >
                        yes i received mine,works great,,,,,,but wouldnt be hard to build
                        one,,but any way,,,,,,i kept callling and they said they woudl move my
                        order u and i got it

                      • Larry
                        ... It s a pot still with a thumper on it that costs more than a pot still with a thumper should cost...
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 21, 2007
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                          At 05:59 PM 09/21/2007, you wrote:

                          What is a venom?  Kind of a snake poison?

                          It's a pot still with a thumper on it that costs more than a pot still with a thumper should cost...

                        • georgetoddly
                          Update: I ordered my Venom on Sept 5th and they told me it would ship in 3 days. after three days they said 10 days, after ten days they said 15 days, after
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 3, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Update:

                            I ordered my Venom on Sept 5th and they told me it would ship in 3
                            days. after three days they said 10 days, after ten days they said 15
                            days, after 15 days they said 20 days, on Oct 5th after several calls
                            i told them i was done and to just recredit my account... the guy on
                            the phone refused, i said it's ok my credit card company would get my
                            money for me, at which point he very obviously did the old "make a
                            static noise with your voice" and said he was losing me over and over
                            then hung up on me. Never to be heard from again. Now it is Dec 3rd
                            and the credit card company has closed the case in my favor. I called
                            them right after the guy hung up on me and they took my money from
                            their account immediately, but it takes them 2 months to finalize it.

                            I'm just updating in the off chance someone else will read this when
                            they are thinking about buying from www.stilldrinkin.com . These guys
                            are just a scam, don't waste your time. I got my money back but it
                            took forever. If you are reading this and your just starting out in
                            distilling and wondering what to do, start here:
                            http://homedistiller.org/ there is a ton of info there including
                            reputable places to purchase a still.
                          • Harry
                            ... Go further. Report them for internet fraud...links below my sig. Slainte! regards Harry Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3)
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 3, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment


                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "georgetoddly" <georgetoddly@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Update:
                              >
                              > I ordered my Venom on Sept 5th and they told me it would ship in 3
                              > days. after three days they said 10 days, after ten days they said 15
                              > days, after 15 days they said 20 days, on Oct 5th after several calls
                              > i told them i was done and to just recredit my account... the guy on
                              > the phone refused, i said it's ok my credit card company would get my
                              > money for me, at which point he very obviously did the old "make a
                              > static noise with your voice" and said he was losing me over and over
                              > then hung up on me. Never to be heard from again. Now it is Dec 3rd
                              > and the credit card company has closed the case in my favor. I called
                              > them right after the guy hung up on me and they took my money from
                              > their account immediately, but it takes them 2 months to finalize it.
                              >
                              > I'm just updating in the off chance someone else will read this when
                              > they are thinking about buying from www.stilldrinkin.com . These guys
                              > are just a scam, don't waste your time. I got my money back but it
                              > took forever. If you are reading this and your just starting out in
                              > distilling and wondering what to do, start here:
                              > http://homedistiller.org/ there is a ton of info there including
                              > reputable places to purchase a still.
                              >

                               

                              Go further.  Report them for internet fraud...links below my sig.

                              Slainte!
                              regards Harry

                              Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3)

                              The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) ... FBI Fraud Flyer adobe pdf. FBI Fraud Flyer ...
                              www.ic3.gov/ - 7k - Cached - Similar pages
                              [PDF]

                              2005 IC3 Annual Internet Fraud Report

                              File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
                              The Internet Crime Complaint Center. 2005 Internet Fraud Crime Report:. January 1, 2005-December 31, 2005. Executive Summary. In December 2003, the Internet ...
                              www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf - Similar pages

                              Internet Fraud Information: USA.gov

                              Report both civil and criminal complaints, such as Internet, telemarketing, and other consumer-related fraud through the Consumer Sentinel database. ...
                              www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml - 31k - Cached - Similar pages

                              cybercrime.gov

                              Citizens who are aware of federal crimes should report them to local offices of ... Child Exploitation and Internet Fraud matters that have a mail nexus ...
                              www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm - 17k - Cached - Similar pages
                            • jamesonbeam1
                              Personally, I would be a bit hesitant to report being ripped of for purchasing a still on the internet in a country where distilling is illegal without permit
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 3, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Personally, I would be a bit hesitant to report being ripped of for
                                purchasing a still on the internet in a country where distilling is
                                illegal without permit (Especially to an agency affiliated with the
                                FBI or ABC). At least that is IMHO and maybe a bit paranoid.

                                This does sound like the perfect rip-off scam though - advertising
                                stills that are illegal to own without a permit then not delivering -
                                knowing that most people would be too scared to report them to the
                                better business bureau or those listed below (sigh :(:(:(.

                                Vino es Veritas,
                                Jim.

                                But thankyou for posting this George, maybe some will learn from your
                                mistake.



                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "georgetoddly" <georgetoddly@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Update:
                                > >
                                > > I ordered my Venom on Sept 5th and they told me it would ship in 3
                                > > days. after three days they said 10 days, after ten days they
                                said 15
                                > > days, after 15 days they said 20 days, on Oct 5th after several
                                calls
                                > > i told them i was done and to just recredit my account... the guy
                                on
                                > > the phone refused, i said it's ok my credit card company would
                                get my
                                > > money for me, at which point he very obviously did the old "make a
                                > > static noise with your voice" and said he was losing me over and
                                over
                                > > then hung up on me. Never to be heard from again. Now it is Dec
                                3rd
                                > > and the credit card company has closed the case in my favor. I
                                called
                                > > them right after the guy hung up on me and they took my money from
                                > > their account immediately, but it takes them 2 months to finalize
                                it.
                                > >
                                > > I'm just updating in the off chance someone else will read this
                                when
                                > > they are thinking about buying from www.stilldrinkin.com . These
                                guys
                                > > are just a scam, don't waste your time. I got my money back but it
                                > > took forever. If you are reading this and your just starting out
                                in
                                > > distilling and wondering what to do, start here:
                                > > http://homedistiller.org/ there is a ton of info there including
                                > > reputable places to purchase a still.
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Go further. Report them for internet fraud...links below my sig.
                                >
                                > Slainte!
                                > regards Harry
                                > Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) <http://www.ic3.gov/> The
                                > Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the
                                > Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) ... FBI Fraud Flyer adobe
                                pdf. FBI
                                > Fraud Flyer ...
                                > www.ic3.gov/ - 7k - Cached
                                > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                q=cache:4ALJ8kLVMNUJ:www.ic3.gov/+report+i\
                                > nternet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1> - Similar pages
                                > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                > ted:www.ic3.gov/> [PDF] 2005 IC3 Annual Internet Fraud Report
                                > <http://www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf> File
                                > Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
                                > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                q=cache:Ansj8lqy5k4J:www.ic3.gov/media/ann\
                                >
                                ualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf+report+internet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2>
                                > The Internet Crime Complaint Center. 2005 Internet Fraud Crime
                                Report:.
                                > January 1, 2005-December 31, 2005. Executive Summary. In December
                                2003,
                                > the Internet ...
                                > www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf - Similar pages
                                > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                > ted:www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf> Internet
                                Fraud
                                > Information: USA.gov
                                > <http://www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml> Report
                                both
                                > civil and criminal complaints, such as Internet, telemarketing, and
                                > other consumer-related fraud through the Consumer Sentinel
                                database. ...
                                > www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml - 31k - Cached
                                > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                q=cache:9HGEchA5N0EJ:www.usa.gov/Citizen/T\
                                >
                                opics/Internet_Fraud.shtml+report+internet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3>
                                -
                                > Similar pages
                                > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                > ted:www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml>
                                cybercrime.gov
                                > <http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm>
                                Citizens
                                > who are aware of federal crimes should report them to local offices
                                of
                                > ... Child Exploitation and Internet Fraud matters that have a mail
                                nexus
                                > ...
                                > www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm - 17k - Cached
                                > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                q=cache:F4XyW6H1r78J:www.usdoj.gov/crimina\
                                >
                                l/cybercrime/reporting.htm+report+internet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4>
                                -
                                > Similar pages
                                > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                > ted:www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm>
                                >
                              • Peggy
                                Hello James, Ownership of a still is not illegal in the United States. Operating the still without a permit is illegal. It is fine to sell stills and the
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 3, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hello James,

                                  Ownership of a still is not illegal in the United States. Operating the
                                  still without a permit is illegal. It is fine to sell stills and the
                                  function is optional. The system of sales reporting for distilleries is not
                                  mandatory either nor is the manufacturing except for the 'unique number' to
                                  be affixed to each functional, operating, and permitted still. This may
                                  sound like gun control. I hope it doesn't get that bad for us. Remember
                                  this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.

                                  Peggy

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of jamesonbeam1
                                  Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:41 PM
                                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: StillDrinkin.com GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

                                  Personally, I would be a bit hesitant to report being ripped of for
                                  purchasing a still on the internet in a country where distilling is
                                  illegal without permit (Especially to an agency affiliated with the
                                  FBI or ABC). At least that is IMHO and maybe a bit paranoid.

                                  This does sound like the perfect rip-off scam though - advertising
                                  stills that are illegal to own without a permit then not delivering -
                                  knowing that most people would be too scared to report them to the
                                  better business bureau or those listed below (sigh :(:(:(.

                                  Vino es Veritas,
                                  Jim.

                                  But thankyou for posting this George, maybe some will learn from your
                                  mistake.



                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "georgetoddly" <georgetoddly@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Update:
                                  > >
                                  > > I ordered my Venom on Sept 5th and they told me it would ship in 3
                                  > > days. after three days they said 10 days, after ten days they
                                  said 15
                                  > > days, after 15 days they said 20 days, on Oct 5th after several
                                  calls
                                  > > i told them i was done and to just recredit my account... the guy
                                  on
                                  > > the phone refused, i said it's ok my credit card company would
                                  get my
                                  > > money for me, at which point he very obviously did the old "make a
                                  > > static noise with your voice" and said he was losing me over and
                                  over
                                  > > then hung up on me. Never to be heard from again. Now it is Dec
                                  3rd
                                  > > and the credit card company has closed the case in my favor. I
                                  called
                                  > > them right after the guy hung up on me and they took my money from
                                  > > their account immediately, but it takes them 2 months to finalize
                                  it.
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm just updating in the off chance someone else will read this
                                  when
                                  > > they are thinking about buying from www.stilldrinkin.com . These
                                  guys
                                  > > are just a scam, don't waste your time. I got my money back but it
                                  > > took forever. If you are reading this and your just starting out
                                  in
                                  > > distilling and wondering what to do, start here:
                                  > > http://homedistiller.org/ there is a ton of info there including
                                  > > reputable places to purchase a still.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Go further. Report them for internet fraud...links below my sig.
                                  >
                                  > Slainte!
                                  > regards Harry
                                  > Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) <http://www.ic3.gov/> The
                                  > Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the
                                  > Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) ... FBI Fraud Flyer adobe
                                  pdf. FBI
                                  > Fraud Flyer ...
                                  > www.ic3.gov/ - 7k - Cached
                                  > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                  q=cache:4ALJ8kLVMNUJ:www.ic3.gov/+report+i\
                                  > nternet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1> - Similar pages
                                  > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                  10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                  > ted:www.ic3.gov/> [PDF] 2005 IC3 Annual Internet Fraud Report
                                  > <http://www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf> File
                                  > Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
                                  > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                  q=cache:Ansj8lqy5k4J:www.ic3.gov/media/ann\
                                  >
                                  ualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf+report+internet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2>
                                  > The Internet Crime Complaint Center. 2005 Internet Fraud Crime
                                  Report:.
                                  > January 1, 2005-December 31, 2005. Executive Summary. In December
                                  2003,
                                  > the Internet ...
                                  > www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf - Similar pages
                                  > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                  10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                  > ted:www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf> Internet
                                  Fraud
                                  > Information: USA.gov
                                  > <http://www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml> Report
                                  both
                                  > civil and criminal complaints, such as Internet, telemarketing, and
                                  > other consumer-related fraud through the Consumer Sentinel
                                  database. ...
                                  > www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml - 31k - Cached
                                  > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                  q=cache:9HGEchA5N0EJ:www.usa.gov/Citizen/T\
                                  >
                                  opics/Internet_Fraud.shtml+report+internet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3>
                                  -
                                  > Similar pages
                                  > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                  10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                  > ted:www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml>
                                  cybercrime.gov
                                  > <http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm>
                                  Citizens
                                  > who are aware of federal crimes should report them to local offices
                                  of
                                  > ... Child Exploitation and Internet Fraud matters that have a mail
                                  nexus
                                  > ...
                                  > www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm - 17k - Cached
                                  > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                  q=cache:F4XyW6H1r78J:www.usdoj.gov/crimina\
                                  >
                                  l/cybercrime/reporting.htm+report+internet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4>
                                  -
                                  > Similar pages
                                  > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                  10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                  > ted:www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm>
                                  >




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                                • Larry
                                  ... I ll say as I said nearly a year ago... when a distilling site needs to get extra revenue by also carrying advertising for sex stuff, there is something
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Dec 3, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    At 01:49 PM 12/03/2007, you wrote:
                                    >I ordered my Venom on Sept 5th and they told me it would ship in 3
                                    >days. after three days they said 10 days, after ten days they said 15
                                    >days, after 15 days they said 20 days, on Oct 5th after several calls
                                    >i told them i was done and to just recredit my account... the guy on
                                    >the phone refused.

                                    I'll say as I said nearly a year ago... when a distilling site needs to get
                                    extra revenue by also carrying advertising for sex stuff, there is
                                    something not right.

                                    It reminds me of all the local drive-in movie theaters here in town. As
                                    the drive-in theaters began to die, you could see their death throes.

                                    They began showing "X" rated films, then "XXX" films, then "For Sale 3.5
                                    Acres Zoned Commercial" signs.

                                    These guys carry advertising for pheromone cologne, claiming that it makes
                                    4-5 women a day try to get in his pants, and still more for a program used
                                    to hack into porn sites. http://www.stilldrinkin.com/Guy%20Stuff.htm

                                    Brewhaus, for instance, ONLY sells alcohol-producing stuff, and I have to
                                    think it's because they have the products and service to actually make it
                                    support itself on distilling.

                                    While I was typing this, I noticed that while the pheromone thing is simple
                                    click-through revenue (it takes you to the actual pheromone people when you
                                    click it), the porn-hacking program is sold directly from stilldrinkin.com.

                                    So I clicked on it's Buy Button, taking me to PayPal. Thought I'd see
                                    who's account was actually receiving payments.

                                    Get this... you can't buy the program. PayPal has shut it down. Instead of
                                    accepting the payment, PayPal sends you to a screen that simply says "This
                                    recipient is currently unable to receive money." then lets you click back
                                    to stilldrinkin.com.

                                    They used to sell these Venom and Mustang stills constantly on Ebay, but
                                    when I looked a couple of months ago, I noticed that they weren't selling
                                    anything at all. I wonder if maybe Ebay shut them down.
                                  • sonum norbu
                                    Good onya Harry. These bastards need to have their wings clipped. blanik Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings . (Shakyamuni Buddha)
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Dec 3, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Good onya Harry. These bastards need to have their wings clipped.

                                      blanik

                                      "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

                                      SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
                                      http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



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                                    • Sherman
                                      I hate to be disagreeable but there exists an excellent example of a case where it is illegal. This is a current law and is from the Kentucky Revised Statutes.
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Dec 4, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I hate to be disagreeable but there exists an excellent example of a
                                        case where it is illegal.
                                        This is a current law and is from the Kentucky Revised Statutes.
                                        -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        244.170 Apparatus for unlawful manufacture prohibited.
                                        No person shall buy, bargain, sell, loan, own, possess or knowingly
                                        transport any apparatus designed for the unlawful manufacture of
                                        alcoholic beverages.
                                        Effective: October 1, 1942
                                        History: Recodified 1942 Ky. Acts ch. 208, sec. 1, effective October
                                        1, 1942, from Ky.
                                        Stat. sec. 2554b-67.
                                        -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        244.990 Penalties.
                                        (2) Any person who violates KRS 244.170 shall, upon the first
                                        conviction, be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Upon a second
                                        conviction he shall be guilty of a Class D felony. Upon the third and
                                        each subsequent conviction, he shall be guilty of a Class C felony.

                                        Just thought your should know.


                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy" <rpk@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hello James,
                                        >
                                        > Ownership of a still is not illegal in the United States. Operating the
                                        > still without a permit is illegal. It is fine to sell stills and the
                                        > function is optional. The system of sales reporting for
                                        distilleries is not
                                        > mandatory either nor is the manufacturing except for the 'unique
                                        number' to
                                        > be affixed to each functional, operating, and permitted still. This may
                                        > sound like gun control. I hope it doesn't get that bad for us.
                                        Remember
                                        > this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.
                                        >
                                        > Peggy
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        > Behalf Of jamesonbeam1
                                        > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:41 PM
                                        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: StillDrinkin.com GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
                                        >
                                        > Personally, I would be a bit hesitant to report being ripped of for
                                        > purchasing a still on the internet in a country where distilling is
                                        > illegal without permit (Especially to an agency affiliated with the
                                        > FBI or ABC). At least that is IMHO and maybe a bit paranoid.
                                        >
                                        > This does sound like the perfect rip-off scam though - advertising
                                        > stills that are illegal to own without a permit then not delivering -
                                        > knowing that most people would be too scared to report them to the
                                        > better business bureau or those listed below (sigh :(:(:(.
                                        >
                                        > Vino es Veritas,
                                        > Jim.
                                        >
                                        > But thankyou for posting this George, maybe some will learn from your
                                        > mistake.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "georgetoddly" <georgetoddly@>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Update:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I ordered my Venom on Sept 5th and they told me it would ship in 3
                                        > > > days. after three days they said 10 days, after ten days they
                                        > said 15
                                        > > > days, after 15 days they said 20 days, on Oct 5th after several
                                        > calls
                                        > > > i told them i was done and to just recredit my account... the guy
                                        > on
                                        > > > the phone refused, i said it's ok my credit card company would
                                        > get my
                                        > > > money for me, at which point he very obviously did the old "make a
                                        > > > static noise with your voice" and said he was losing me over and
                                        > over
                                        > > > then hung up on me. Never to be heard from again. Now it is Dec
                                        > 3rd
                                        > > > and the credit card company has closed the case in my favor. I
                                        > called
                                        > > > them right after the guy hung up on me and they took my money from
                                        > > > their account immediately, but it takes them 2 months to finalize
                                        > it.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I'm just updating in the off chance someone else will read this
                                        > when
                                        > > > they are thinking about buying from www.stilldrinkin.com . These
                                        > guys
                                        > > > are just a scam, don't waste your time. I got my money back but it
                                        > > > took forever. If you are reading this and your just starting out
                                        > in
                                        > > > distilling and wondering what to do, start here:
                                        > > > http://homedistiller.org/ there is a ton of info there including
                                        > > > reputable places to purchase a still.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Go further. Report them for internet fraud...links below my sig.
                                        > >
                                        > > Slainte!
                                        > > regards Harry
                                        > > Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) <http://www.ic3.gov/> The
                                        > > Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the
                                        > > Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) ... FBI Fraud Flyer adobe
                                        > pdf. FBI
                                        > > Fraud Flyer ...
                                        > > www.ic3.gov/ - 7k - Cached
                                        > > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                        > q=cache:4ALJ8kLVMNUJ:www.ic3.gov/+report+i\
                                        > > nternet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1> - Similar pages
                                        > > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                        > 10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                        > > ted:www.ic3.gov/> [PDF] 2005 IC3 Annual Internet Fraud Report
                                        > > <http://www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf> File
                                        > > Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
                                        > > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                        > q=cache:Ansj8lqy5k4J:www.ic3.gov/media/ann\
                                        > >
                                        > ualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf+report+internet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2>
                                        > > The Internet Crime Complaint Center. 2005 Internet Fraud Crime
                                        > Report:.
                                        > > January 1, 2005-December 31, 2005. Executive Summary. In December
                                        > 2003,
                                        > > the Internet ...
                                        > > www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf - Similar pages
                                        > > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                        > 10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                        > > ted:www.ic3.gov/media/annualreport/2005_IC3Report.pdf> Internet
                                        > Fraud
                                        > > Information: USA.gov
                                        > > <http://www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml> Report
                                        > both
                                        > > civil and criminal complaints, such as Internet, telemarketing, and
                                        > > other consumer-related fraud through the Consumer Sentinel
                                        > database. ...
                                        > > www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml - 31k - Cached
                                        > > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                        > q=cache:9HGEchA5N0EJ:www.usa.gov/Citizen/T\
                                        > >
                                        > opics/Internet_Fraud.shtml+report+internet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3>
                                        > -
                                        > > Similar pages
                                        > > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                        > 10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                        > > ted:www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet_Fraud.shtml>
                                        > cybercrime.gov
                                        > > <http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm>
                                        > Citizens
                                        > > who are aware of federal crimes should report them to local offices
                                        > of
                                        > > ... Child Exploitation and Internet Fraud matters that have a mail
                                        > nexus
                                        > > ...
                                        > > www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm - 17k - Cached
                                        > > <http://209.85.173.104/search?
                                        > q=cache:F4XyW6H1r78J:www.usdoj.gov/crimina\
                                        > >
                                        > l/cybercrime/reporting.htm+report+internet+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4>
                                        > -
                                        > > Similar pages
                                        > > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-
                                        > 10,GGLG:en&q=rela\
                                        > > ted:www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm>
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Distillers list archives :
                                        > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/distillers/
                                        >
                                        > FAQ, Howto distil etc. :
                                        > http://homedistiller.org
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                      • rye_junkie
                                        Sherman is correct. I have a friend (although not a close friend) in law enforcement that I trust. I threw a hypothetical question at him the other day and
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Dec 4, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Sherman is correct. I have a friend (although not a close friend) in
                                          law enforcement that I trust. I threw a hypothetical question at him
                                          the other day and asked how he felt about people making moonshine as a
                                          hobby. His reply was that it was none of his business as long as you
                                          were within the 5 gallon per year limit. This was a law enforcement
                                          officer of 15 years saying that he was pretty sure the law allowed you
                                          to make 5 gallons per year of shine for personal use. I asked him to
                                          check it out for me and he immediately got on the phone to a ATF agent
                                          friend of his and asked the guy to clarify the issue for him. My name
                                          was never mentioned during this. The agent replied on speaker phone
                                          that it was in fact illegal to own a still in the US without a permit.
                                          Possession of less than 3 gallons of shine is a misdemeanor and over a
                                          felony I believe is what he said. Afterward my friend smiled at me
                                          and said that we should forget that we had the conversation to begin
                                          with. This is not the first person in law enforcement to tell me they
                                          thought it was legal. I had an ATF agent a few years ago when i was
                                          still toying with the idea tell me that she "THOUGHT" it was legal to
                                          make a small amount for personal use.
                                          The bottom line seems to be that some if not a lot of law enforcement
                                          think that shine is like wine and beer. You can make a little you
                                          just cant sell it. Simply not true. But it does seem to be a bit
                                          fuzzy to alot of people. We can Buy and sell books on the subject,
                                          We can buy and sell stills on the internet and Ebay legally?, We can
                                          buy products legally that are specific to the hobby of illegal
                                          distilling, we can legally discuss what we illegally do on this
                                          forum. But if we get caught were in trouble. Sounds like entrapment
                                          to me. As alot of have said before. Maybe they just don't bother
                                          with us anymore. I will continue on as will most of us who enjoy this
                                          hobby. But I will always be looking over my shoulder while operating
                                          my still. I will also be keeping the door shut, and the exhaust fan
                                          on high.

                                          Mason

                                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I hate to be disagreeable but there exists an excellent example of a
                                          > case where it is illegal.
                                          > This is a current law and is from the Kentucky Revised Statutes.
                                          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > 244.170 Apparatus for unlawful manufacture prohibited.
                                          > No person shall buy, bargain, sell, loan, own, possess or knowingly
                                          > transport any apparatus designed for the unlawful manufacture of
                                          > alcoholic beverages.
                                          > Effective: October 1, 1942
                                          > History: Recodified 1942 Ky. Acts ch. 208, sec. 1, effective October
                                          > 1, 1942, from Ky.
                                          > Stat. sec. 2554b-67.
                                          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > 244.990 Penalties.
                                          > (2) Any person who violates KRS 244.170 shall, upon the first
                                          > conviction, be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Upon a second
                                          > conviction he shall be guilty of a Class D felony. Upon the third and
                                          > each subsequent conviction, he shall be guilty of a Class C felony.
                                          >
                                          > Just thought your should know.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy" <rpk@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Hello James,
                                          > >
                                          > > Ownership of a still is not illegal in the United States.
                                          Operating the
                                          > > still without a permit is illegal. It is fine to sell stills and the
                                          > > function is optional. The system of sales reporting for
                                          > distilleries is not
                                          > > mandatory either nor is the manufacturing except for the 'unique
                                          > number' to
                                          > > be affixed to each functional, operating, and permitted still.
                                          This may
                                          > > sound like gun control. I hope it doesn't get that bad for us.
                                          > Remember
                                          > > this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.
                                          > >
                                          > > Peggy
                                        • harry day
                                          I bought the turbo master combo last January from Still Drinkin.com and it took a few phone calls and a couple months but I did receive my still. They were
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Dec 4, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I bought the turbo  master combo last January from Still Drinkin.com  and it took a few phone calls and a couple months but I did receive my still. They were very helpful most of the time but when I ordered other items I had a lot of trouble getting them and I had to have paypal help me out. They never send items out when they say they will.  They dont seem to be very organized and have no way to keep track of their orders or shipping. Also when talking to them most of the time it is hard to hear them for all the back ground noise and due to the fact they seem to be on cell phones........

                                            Sherman <pintoshine@...> wrote:
                                            I hate to be disagreeable but there exists an excellent example of a
                                            case where it is illegal.
                                            This is a current law and is from the Kentucky Revised Statutes.
                                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                            244.170 Apparatus for unlawful manufacture prohibited.
                                            No person shall buy, bargain, sell, loan, own, possess or knowingly
                                            transport any apparatus designed for the unlawful manufacture of
                                            alcoholic beverages.
                                            Effective: October 1, 1942
                                            History: Recodified 1942 Ky. Acts ch. 208, sec. 1, effective October
                                            1, 1942, from Ky.
                                            Stat. sec. 2554b-67.
                                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                            244.990 Penalties.
                                            (2) Any person who violates KRS 244.170 shall, upon the first
                                            conviction, be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Upon a second
                                            conviction he shall be guilty of a Class D felony. Upon the third and
                                            each subsequent conviction, he shall be guilty of a Class C felony.

                                            Just thought your should know.

                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "Peggy" <rpk@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hello James,
                                            >
                                            > Ownership of a still is not illegal in the United States. Operating the
                                            > still without a permit is illegal. It is fine to sell stills and the
                                            > function is optional. The system of sales reporting for
                                            distilleries is not
                                            > mandatory either nor is the manufacturing except for the 'unique
                                            number' to
                                            > be affixed to each functional, operating, and permitted still. This may
                                            > sound like gun control. I hope it doesn't get that bad for us.
                                            Remember
                                            > this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.
                                            >
                                            > Peggy
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: Distillers@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogro ups.com] On
                                            > Behalf Of jamesonbeam1
                                            > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:41 PM
                                            > To: Distillers@yahoogro ups.com
                                            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: StillDrinkin. com GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
                                            >
                                            > Personally, I would be a bit hesitant to report being ripped of for
                                            > purchasing a still on the internet in a country where distilling is
                                            > illegal without permit (Especially to an agency affiliated with the
                                            > FBI or ABC). At least that is IMHO and maybe a bit paranoid.
                                            >
                                            > This does sound like the perfect rip-off scam though - advertising
                                            > stills that are illegal to own without a permit then not delivering -
                                            > knowing that most people would be too scared to report them to the
                                            > better business bureau or those listed below (sigh :(:(:(.
                                            >
                                            > Vino es Veritas,
                                            > Jim.
                                            >
                                            > But thankyou for posting this George, maybe some will learn from your
                                            > mistake.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@ > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "georgetoddly" <georgetoddly@ >
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Update:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I ordered my Venom on Sept 5th and they told me it would ship in 3
                                            > > > days. after three days they said 10 days, after ten days they
                                            > said 15
                                            > > > days, after 15 days they said 20 days, on Oct 5th after several
                                            > calls
                                            > > > i told them i was done and to just recredit my account... the guy
                                            > on
                                            > > > the phone refused, i said it's ok my credit card company would
                                            > get my
                                            > > > money for me, at which point he very obviously did the old "make a
                                            > > > static noise with your voice" and said he was losing me over and
                                            > over
                                            > > > then hung up on me. Never to be heard from again. Now it is Dec
                                            > 3rd
                                            > > > and the credit card company has closed the case in my favor. I
                                            > called
                                            > > > them right after the guy hung up on me and they took my money from
                                            > > > their account immediately, but it takes them 2 months to finalize
                                            > it.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I'm just updating in the off chance someone else will read this
                                            > when
                                            > > > they are thinking about buying from www.stilldrinkin. com . These
                                            > guys
                                            > > > are just a scam, don't waste your time. I got my money back but it
                                            > > > took forever. If you are reading this and your just starting out
                                            > in
                                            > > > distilling and wondering what to do, start here:
                                            > > > http://homedistille r.org/ there is a ton of info there including
                                            > > > reputable places to purchase a still.
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Go further. Report them for internet fraud...links below my sig.
                                            > >
                                            > > Slainte!
                                            > > regards Harry
                                            > > Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) <http://www.ic3. gov/> The
                                            > > Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the
                                            > > Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) ... FBI Fraud Flyer adobe
                                            > pdf. FBI
                                            > > Fraud Flyer ...
                                            > > www.ic3.gov/ - 7k - Cached
                                            > > <http://209.85. 173.104/search?
                                            > q=cache:4ALJ8kLVMNU J:www.ic3. gov/+report+ i\
                                            > > nternet+fraud& hl=en&ct= clnk&cd=1> - Similar pages
                                            > > <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en&rls= GGLG,GGLG: 2006-
                                            > 10,GGLG:en&q= rela\
                                            > > ted:www.ic3. gov/> [PDF] 2005 IC3 Annual Internet Fraud Report
                                            > > <http://www.ic3. gov/media/ annualreport/ 2005_IC3Report. pdf> File
                                            > > Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
                                            > > <http://209.85. 173.104/search?
                                            > q=cache:Ansj8lqy5k4 J:www.ic3. gov/media/ ann\
                                            > >
                                            > ualreport/2005_ IC3Report. pdf+report+ internet+ fraud&hl= en&ct=clnk& cd=2>
                                            > > The Internet Crime Complaint Center. 2005 Internet Fraud Crime
                                            > Report:.
                                            > > January 1, 2005-December 31, 2005. Executive Summary. In December
                                            > 2003,
                                            > > the Internet ...
                                            > > www.ic3.gov/ media/annualrepo rt/2005_IC3Repor t.pdf - Similar pages
                                            > > <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en&rls= GGLG,GGLG: 2006-
                                            > 10,GGLG:en&q= rela\
                                            > > ted:www.ic3. gov/media/ annualreport/ 2005_IC3Report. pdf> Internet
                                            > Fraud
                                            > > Information: USA.gov
                                            > > <http://www.usa. gov/Citizen/ Topics/Internet_ Fraud.shtml> Report
                                            > both
                                            > > civil and criminal complaints, such as Internet, telemarketing, and
                                            > > other consumer-related fraud through the Consumer Sentinel
                                            > database. ...
                                            > > www.usa.gov/ Citizen/Topics/ Internet_ Fraud.shtml - 31k - Cached
                                            > > <http://209.85. 173.104/search?
                                            > q=cache:9HGEchA5N0E J:www.usa. gov/Citizen/ T\
                                            > >
                                            > opics/Internet_ Fraud.shtml+ report+internet+ fraud&hl= en&ct=clnk& cd=3>
                                            > -
                                            > > Similar pages
                                            > > <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en&rls= GGLG,GGLG: 2006-
                                            > 10,GGLG:en&q= rela\
                                            > > ted:www.usa. gov/Citizen/ Topics/Internet_ Fraud.shtml>
                                            > cybercrime.gov
                                            > > <http://www.usdoj. gov/criminal/ cybercrime/ reporting. htm>
                                            > Citizens
                                            > > who are aware of federal crimes should report them to local offices
                                            > of
                                            > > ... Child Exploitation and Internet Fraud matters that have a mail
                                            > nexus
                                            > > ...
                                            > > www.usdoj.gov/ criminal/ cybercrime/ reporting. htm - 17k - Cached
                                            > > <http://209.85. 173.104/search?
                                            > q=cache:F4XyW6H1r78 J:www.usdoj. gov/crimina\
                                            > >
                                            > l/cybercrime/ reporting. htm+report+ internet+ fraud&hl= en&ct=clnk& cd=4>
                                            > -
                                            > > Similar pages
                                            > > <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en&rls= GGLG,GGLG: 2006-
                                            > 10,GGLG:en&q= rela\
                                            > > ted:www.usdoj. gov/criminal/ cybercrime/ reporting. htm>
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Distillers list archives :
                                            > http://infoarchive. net/sgroup/ distillers/
                                            >
                                            > FAQ, Howto distil etc. :
                                            > http://homedistille r.org
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >


                                          • jamesonbeam1
                                            Hi Peggy, Yes you are sort of correct - it is legal to own a still for decorative purposes like on a wall or in a salon or as a lamp (i ment to say own a still
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Dec 5, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Peggy,

                                              Yes you are sort of correct - it is legal to own a still for
                                              decorative purposes like on a wall or in a salon or as a lamp (i ment
                                              to say own a still without permit ot operate)...

                                              However, if by some remote chance the ATF or my friendly local
                                              sheriffs, of whom ive met many, did come into my house (which they
                                              have on occasion from other problems) with a search warrent and found
                                              2 - 12 gallon primary fermenters filled with corn mash in various
                                              stages of fermentation, along with proof and wine hydrometers, yeast,
                                              acid blend, yeast nutrients, iodine, PH test strips, glycerine, mason
                                              jars (some filled with shine), and many pounds of sugar, corn meal,
                                              flaked corn, liquid malt, etc,etc... along with disassembled still
                                              components, then....

                                              I believe i would be in deep caca from a little known legal term
                                              known as "intent to process...." as stated below.

                                              But thanks for the info.

                                              Vino es Veritas,
                                              Jim.



                                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Sherman is correct. I have a friend (although not a close friend)
                                              in
                                              > law enforcement that I trust. I threw a hypothetical question at
                                              him
                                              > the other day and asked how he felt about people making moonshine
                                              as a
                                              > hobby. His reply was that it was none of his business as long as
                                              you
                                              > were within the 5 gallon per year limit. This was a law enforcement
                                              > officer of 15 years saying that he was pretty sure the law allowed
                                              you
                                              > to make 5 gallons per year of shine for personal use. I asked him
                                              to
                                              > check it out for me and he immediately got on the phone to a ATF
                                              agent
                                              > friend of his and asked the guy to clarify the issue for him. My
                                              name
                                              > was never mentioned during this. The agent replied on speaker phone
                                              > that it was in fact illegal to own a still in the US without a
                                              permit.
                                              > Possession of less than 3 gallons of shine is a misdemeanor and
                                              over a
                                              > felony I believe is what he said. Afterward my friend smiled at me
                                              > and said that we should forget that we had the conversation to begin
                                              > with. This is not the first person in law enforcement to tell me
                                              they
                                              > thought it was legal. I had an ATF agent a few years ago when i was
                                              > still toying with the idea tell me that she "THOUGHT" it was legal
                                              to
                                              > make a small amount for personal use.
                                              > The bottom line seems to be that some if not a lot of law
                                              enforcement
                                              > think that shine is like wine and beer. You can make a little you
                                              > just cant sell it. Simply not true. But it does seem to be a bit
                                              > fuzzy to alot of people. We can Buy and sell books on the subject,
                                              > We can buy and sell stills on the internet and Ebay legally?, We
                                              can
                                              > buy products legally that are specific to the hobby of illegal
                                              > distilling, we can legally discuss what we illegally do on this
                                              > forum. But if we get caught were in trouble. Sounds like entrapment
                                              > to me. As alot of have said before. Maybe they just don't bother
                                              > with us anymore. I will continue on as will most of us who enjoy
                                              this
                                              > hobby. But I will always be looking over my shoulder while
                                              operating
                                              > my still. I will also be keeping the door shut, and the exhaust fan
                                              > on high.
                                              >
                                              > Mason
                                              >
                                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > I hate to be disagreeable but there exists an excellent example
                                              of a
                                              > > case where it is illegal.
                                              > > This is a current law and is from the Kentucky Revised Statutes.
                                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              -
                                              > > 244.170 Apparatus for unlawful manufacture prohibited.
                                              > > No person shall buy, bargain, sell, loan, own, possess or
                                              knowingly
                                              > > transport any apparatus designed for the unlawful manufacture of
                                              > > alcoholic beverages.
                                              > > Effective: October 1, 1942
                                              > > History: Recodified 1942 Ky. Acts ch. 208, sec. 1, effective
                                              October
                                              > > 1, 1942, from Ky.
                                              > > Stat. sec. 2554b-67.
                                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              -
                                              > > 244.990 Penalties.
                                              > > (2) Any person who violates KRS 244.170 shall, upon the first
                                              > > conviction, be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Upon a second
                                              > > conviction he shall be guilty of a Class D felony. Upon the third
                                              and
                                              > > each subsequent conviction, he shall be guilty of a Class C
                                              felony.
                                              > >
                                              > > Just thought your should know.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy" <rpk@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Hello James,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Ownership of a still is not illegal in the United States.
                                              > Operating the
                                              > > > still without a permit is illegal. It is fine to sell stills
                                              and the
                                              > > > function is optional. The system of sales reporting for
                                              > > distilleries is not
                                              > > > mandatory either nor is the manufacturing except for the 'unique
                                              > > number' to
                                              > > > be affixed to each functional, operating, and permitted still.
                                              > This may
                                              > > > sound like gun control. I hope it doesn't get that bad for us.
                                              > > Remember
                                              > > > this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Peggy
                                              >
                                            • jamesonbeam1
                                              ... -snip - Remember - this country was founded by a bunch of rebels. Peggy Yup, guess you are so correct there too. I is somewhat of a rebel lol :):):) Keep
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Dec 5, 2007
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                                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy" <rpk@> wrote:

                                                -snip -
                                                Remember -
                                                this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.

                                                Peggy

                                                Yup, guess you are so correct there too.
                                                I is somewhat of a rebel lol :):):)

                                                Keep the faith and Vino es Veritas,
                                                Jim.
                                              • Derek Hamlet
                                                ... It s important to remember how many of our laws about distilling came into effect. It has little to do with prohibition, public health or any of the other
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Dec 5, 2007
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                                                  At 07:11 AM 12/5/2007, you wrote:
                                                  >Remember -
                                                  >this country was founded by a bunch of rebels.

                                                  It's important to remember how many of our laws about distilling came
                                                  into effect.
                                                  It has little to do with prohibition, public health or any of the
                                                  other BS arguments put forward by spin doctors and politicians.
                                                  In the early days, (when George Washington still had a still) new
                                                  settlers from Europe headed out into the hinterlands. Many of these
                                                  people came from European roots with strong distilling traditions
                                                  such as the Irish.
                                                  Roads were little more than tracks.
                                                  These folks often ended up farming and corn was fairly easy to grow.
                                                  Getting the product to market involved wagons, animals and tracks
                                                  that broke wheels and terrain that was daunting.
                                                  Some folks distilled their product into alcohol and found not only
                                                  could a mule carry two barrels of alcohol to market, the price was
                                                  virtually the same as the price for corn. This was a no brainer.
                                                  Enter the established distillers, the concept of lobbying, government
                                                  (even though rebel raised) eager for taxes and you have a recipe for
                                                  making distilling illegal.
                                                  Bastards!
                                                  I'd be guessing the annual costs to society of alcohol abuse of
                                                  highly purified products produced by rich bastard distilling
                                                  companies is far more than the social ills of "freelancers" over the
                                                  entire history of the USof A.
                                                  My apologies to all the non North Americans who chose to read
                                                  this. I'm guessing the histories in Aus, NZ, Sweden or wherever is
                                                  much the same.
                                                  The good news for those of us that make product for ourselves and
                                                  close friends is that there are way more important social ills for
                                                  the forces of law and order to investigate than whether you and I are
                                                  producing a few gallons of hooch every year.
                                                  I never give it a thought, but I am also circumspect.


                                                  Derek
                                                  "From the cradle to the crypt it's a mighty short trip
                                                  So you'd better get it while you can!"
                                                  -from the Ballad of Carl Martin by Steve Goodman
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