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design idea

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  • jeandenis308
    Hi all, I have this idea in my head and i cant make up any calculation it ll do when building this design. I have an picture here
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 30 10:29 AM
      Hi all,

      I have this idea in my head and i cant make up any calculation it'll
      do when building this design.

      I have an picture here
      [URL=http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003082782343486285%5d[IMG]
      http://aycu27.webshots.com/image/27706/2003082782343486285_rs.jpg
      [/IMG][/URL] cause it'll probably explain more then words only.
      The idea is like plates in a reflux colom but then smaller exctually.
      The smaller pipe will trap upward steam wich will be forced to
      trickle down and so cool a bit wich will be sort of run again.
      as the picture shows only 2 backwards pipes it could be more.(ore
      less)
      the backward pipe could be 2 till 5 inches log as the colom will get
      higher offcourse. my hope is to get an volume of about 90% from the
      exhaust pipe.

      The concept is from the idea to safe up cooling water as were i am
      dont have running water only a 30liter vezel and an circular pump.
      Wich i need to let cool for a day to run my pot again.
      Just to get an 80~85 volume.

      Thanks in Advance.

      JD
    • Harry
      ... Reflux is condensed vapours retutning to the column for further processing. Your design has no means of condensing those vapours. If the top section of
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 30 12:37 PM


        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jeandenis308" <jeandenis308@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all,
        >
        > I have this idea in my head and i cant make up any calculation it'll
        > do when building this design.
        >
        > I have an picture here
        > [URL=http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003082782343486285][IMG]
        > http://aycu27.webshots.com/image/27706/2003082782343486285_rs.jpg
        > [/IMG][/URL] cause it'll probably explain more then words only.
        > The idea is like plates in a reflux colom but then smaller exctually.
        > The smaller pipe will trap upward steam wich will be forced to
        > trickle down and so cool a bit wich will be sort of run again.
        > as the picture shows only 2 backwards pipes it could be more.(ore
        > less)
        > the backward pipe could be 2 till 5 inches log as the colom will get
        > higher offcourse. my hope is to get an volume of about 90% from the
        > exhaust pipe.
        >
        > The concept is from the idea to safe up cooling water as were i am
        > dont have running water only a 30liter vezel and an circular pump.
        > Wich i need to let cool for a day to run my pot again.
        > Just to get an 80~85 volume.
        >
        > Thanks in Advance.
        >
        > JD

         

        Reflux is condensed vapours retutning to the column for further processing.  Your design has no means of condensing those vapours.  If the top section of your column was un-insulated, then you would get a 'small' amount of condensation via temperature loss to the surrounding atmosphere.  It would not be enough to make any appreciable difference to the purity of your product (the reason we employ reflux in the first place).  You need an overhead condenser to achieve useful reflux.

        Slainte!
        regards Harry

      • bbornais
        Perhaps it s me who is not totally understanding here, but it seems that you are maybe confusing the idea of what a bubble plate does. If this is so, then I
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 30 12:49 PM
          Perhaps it's me who is not totally understanding here, but it seems
          that you are maybe confusing the idea of what a bubble plate does. If
          this is so, then I would recommend that you read up on the principle a
          little bit more.

          From the looks of things, there is not going to be any place for
          condensed vapour to come into contact with the rising steam, and hence
          no reflux. This column will heat up just like a straight pipe and
          should, if any, make only a very negligible difference.

          And there is negligible condensed vapour. You NEED a reflux condenser
          or a stream splitter of some sort, or bubble plates.

          On the other hand, having the condensed vapour channel into the center
          might help out with equilibrium over the copper scrubber pads? I am not
          sure, you would have to compare to a traditional packed column. But why
          would you put in the extra time and cost when you know the traditional
          column works fine to pull off ethyl alcohol's near azeotrope?

          Bryan.
        • lockdude77
          ... If ... principle a ... hence ... condenser ... center ... not ... why ... traditional ... on the pipe to get reflux.I built one that has a smaller pipe
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 30 1:47 PM
            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bbornais" <bbornais@...> wrote:
            >
            > Perhaps it's me who is not totally understanding here, but it seems
            > that you are maybe confusing the idea of what a bubble plate does.
            If
            > this is so, then I would recommend that you read up on the
            principle a
            > little bit more.
            >
            > From the looks of things, there is not going to be any place for
            > condensed vapour to come into contact with the rising steam, and
            hence
            > no reflux. This column will heat up just like a straight pipe and
            > should, if any, make only a very negligible difference.
            >
            > And there is negligible condensed vapour. You NEED a reflux
            condenser
            > or a stream splitter of some sort, or bubble plates.
            >
            > On the other hand, having the condensed vapour channel into the
            center
            > might help out with equilibrium over the copper scrubber pads? I am
            not
            > sure, you would have to compare to a traditional packed column. But
            why
            > would you put in the extra time and cost when you know the
            traditional
            > column works fine to pull off ethyl alcohol's near azeotrope?
            >
            > Bryan.
            >The smaller tube down the middle will work,but you need some cooling
            on the pipe to get reflux.I built one that has a smaller pipe going
            down the middle,but I wrapped some 1/4 inch copper around the smaller
            pipe,and soldered the coil to the pipe.I run cooling water through it
            to cause reflux.The one thing that I did to the bottom of the smaller
            pipe is notched out the end with a hacksaw.I cut v shaped groves all
            the way around it,cleaned up the edges,and bent all the teeth inward.
            The pipe looked like the teeth on a holesaw,but bigger.With them all
            curling in,the reflux will drip down the center of the packing.It has
            2 seperate condencers.One for the column,for reflux,and one for the
            condencer.It works.This is mounted on a 3 gallon presure cooker,and
            is made with 1 1/2 inch,and 3/4 inch copper,and is only 15 inches
            tall.It will run 85%.My friend has it,and runs it on the stovetop in
            his apartment.
            george
          • jeandenis308
            Ok, so either it wont work unless i putt so many in this colom it wont fit my sealing, ore i still need cooling coils to get the reflux needed. So this design
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 30 10:44 PM
              Ok,
              so either it wont work unless i putt so many in this colom it wont fit
              my sealing, ore i still need cooling coils to get the reflux needed.

              So this design can be burnt at the staple.
              And better turn the liebig condenser of the potstill up 30 degrees so
              there will be more reflux in it the in this design.
              And probably more volume from the exhaust.

              Ok thanks for all the reply's

              Greetz,

              JD
            • Link D'Antoni
              JD, The column needs some sort of packing for reflux not the condenser. The column is where the reflux action is achieved. The condenser is where the vapor is,
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 31 10:48 AM
                JD,

                The column needs some sort of packing for reflux not
                the condenser.

                The column is where the reflux action is achieved.
                The condenser is where the vapor is, well, condensed
                back to liquid. Whatever purity goes over at the
                opening on the condenser, will be your result. You
                might want to look a little further into the process.

                What you have, at this point, is a fancy looking pot
                still.
                You might review/re-read HomeDistillers.org The
                'Theory' segment covers your question.
                Harry' reference library has some good stuff too,
                but I can't find my link (no pun intended) right now.


                Link

                (We're with 'Stiller and here to help)
                ((Do you suppose the Shriners started this way?...
                hmmmm?))


                --- jeandenis308 <jeandenis308@...> wrote:

                > Ok,
                > so either it wont work unless i putt so many in this
                > colom it wont fit
                > my sealing, ore i still need cooling coils to get
                > the reflux needed.
                >
                > So this design can be burnt at the staple.
                > And better turn the liebig condenser of the potstill
                > up 30 degrees so
                > there will be more reflux in it the in this design.
                > And probably more volume from the exhaust.
                >
                > Ok thanks for all the reply's
                >
                > Greetz,
                >
                > JD
                >
                >




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              • abbababbaccc
                If you want less feints while keeping the quality you can use reflux still according to Ian Smiley s instructions. You can read about in detail in his corn
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 1, 2007
                  If you want less feints while keeping the quality you can use reflux
                  still according to Ian Smiley's instructions. You can read about in
                  detail in his corn whiskey book. The process requires careful
                  monitoring and adjustments but gives good results.

                  Cheers, Riku

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, jean denis willemsen
                  <jeandenis308@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thats what i mend,
                  >
                  > Deu to the idea to keep the taste of grains but a try to up
                  volume the end result.
                  >
                  > With a potstill the lyne arm normally is about in a 45degree angle
                  position from the still
                  > If the putt this lyne arm up about lets say 15 degree it'll be in
                  a 60degree angle from the still and will probably produce more
                  reflux then this idea.
                  >
                  > As you say it needs packing , then a straight pipe with packing
                  will do aswell.
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > JD
                  >
                  >
                  >
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