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Re: Rethinking American vs. French oak - oak barrels used in aging of wine

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  • waljaco
    Many Australian wineries age the same wine in American & French oak to get a good balance. Ausstralia s most prestige wine Grange is actually aged in
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 2, 2007
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      Many Australian wineries age the same wine in American & French oak to
      get a good balance. Ausstralia's most prestige wine 'Grange' is
      actually aged in American oak.
      But there is twice as much oak aged wine than oak barrels - obviously
      they use oak chips and small 2 mm imitation oak 'staves' that are
      placed in the wine itself.
      You only need 5.5 g/l of oak to simulate a 200 l barrel - therefore it
      is economical to buy the oak chips - French or American rather than
      using an unknown product.
      wal
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Home Distiller <home_distiller@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Ok it's an article about wine aging rather then spirit
      > aging, but it was interesting how they pointed out the
      > technique used to prepare the wood seems to be more
      > important then if it's french or american white oak.
      >
      > http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3488/is_n11_v73/ai_13619651
      >
      >
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    • Home Distiller
      ... In the words of a famous Australian Because it was there Don t know if it s a morbid sense of adventure just to try different things to see if something
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 2, 2007
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        --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
        > is economical to buy the oak chips - French or
        > American rather than
        > using an unknown product.

        In the words of a famous Australian "Because it was
        there"

        Don't know if it's a morbid sense of adventure just to
        try different things to see if something will work
        better or plain simple bordem to see what will happen.


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      • Home Distiller
        ... work ... Or another way of looking at it, if people didn t mess about accidental discoveries wouldn t occur, take stainless steel for example, it was a
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 2, 2007
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          --- Home Distiller <home_distiller@...> wrote:

          > Don't know if it's a morbid sense of adventure just
          > to try different things to see if something will
          work
          > better or plain simple bordem to see what will
          > happen.

          Or another way of looking at it, if people didn't mess
          about accidental discoveries wouldn't occur, take
          stainless steel for example, it was a complete
          accident it was found. Last time I checked, we still
          don't know everything about everything :)


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        • !Zapata Vive!
          Of interest to me was this ... I believe there are a lot of Acacia s in Australia, just thought I d throw that out for you Ausies, might be worth experimenting
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 2, 2007
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            Of interest to me was this
            Acacia imparts a yellow tint to the wine and is no longer common. 
            I believe there are a lot of Acacia's in Australia, just thought I'd throw that out for you Ausies, might be worth experimenting with, or at least researching.

            On Jul 1, 2007, at 11:23 PM, Home Distiller wrote:

            Ok it's an article about wine aging rather then spirit
            aging, but it was interesting how they pointed out the
            technique used to prepare the wood seems to be more
            important then if it's french or american white oak.

            http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3488/is_n11_v73/ai_13619651

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          • !Zapata Vive!
            There have been a few recent references recently to Red Devil Lye . I just wanted to mention that Red Devil no longer makes a pure lye product (NaOH). They
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 2, 2007
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              There have been a few recent references recently to "Red Devil Lye".  I just wanted to mention that Red Devil no longer makes a pure lye product (NaOH).  They discontinued it a few years ago due it's popularity among illicit drug manufacturers.  But NaOH is also commonly used by many home chemists, ranging from the hobby experimenters to soap making and bio-fuels production.  If you are looking for a replacement for Red Devil, the brand Roebic "crystal drain opener" is sold in many big hardware stores in the US including Lowes and sometimes even Walmart, and it is as pure (or purer even) than Red Devil, and comes in a bigger bottle too.  

              Of course NaOH is also rather commonly available online as well, but the convenience of buying locally can't be beat.

              Just wanted to share an alternate source to another ridiculous casualty of prohibition.

              The two most recent references to Red Devil were:
              I pointed you to the process outlined by wiki because it is the
              traditional process. The modern process is in making hominy with
              sodium hydroxide, caustic soda, lye. I use about 40 grams in 12
              liters to do a small batch. I use the brand Red Devil because it is
              pure lye. I heat mine to boiling, add whole corn bring back to a
              boil, turn off heat and then let it set overnight. The next day the
              pericarp and germ will fall off. I usually give it a good rinse and
              most of it comes off with the rinsing. The soft starchy part is
              easily mashed and if you get most of the pericarp and germ off in the
              rinsing you get a pretty clear, non-viscous liquid that ferments real
              good. The germ will usuall filter out really easy if you miss it.
              This process sounds complicated but it yeilds much more convertable
              starch.

              and:
              Some readily available alkaline substances were Red Devil Lye(sodium
              hydroxide) Arm and Hammer Washing soda (sodium carbonate) Arm and
              Hammer Baking Soda( sodium bicarb.) hard wood ashes ( potassium
              carbonate) caustic potash from ashes and calcium hydroxide(potassium
              hydroxide) eggshells (calcium carbonate) and lime (calcium hydroxide)
              and lastly ammonia hydrate(common household ammonia not the anhydrous
              stuff)

            • Home Distiller
              ... This article towards the bottom mentions that Japanese cedar was used to age sake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_barrel
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 2, 2007
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                --- !Zapata Vive! <zapatavive@...> wrote:

                > Of interest to me was this
                > > Acacia imparts a yellow tint to the wine and is no
                > longer common.
                > I believe there are a lot of Acacia's in Australia,
                > just thought I'd
                > throw that out for you Ausies, might be worth
                > experimenting with, or
                > at least researching.

                This article towards the bottom mentions that Japanese
                cedar was used to age sake.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_barrel





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              • pint_o_shine
                Fortunately in my area it is still available. I just bought some. It is a regional thing as to which is available. The contaminated stuff does indeed have
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 3, 2007
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                  Fortunately in my area it is still available. I just bought some. It
                  is a regional thing as to which is available. The contaminated stuff
                  does indeed have small zinc pellets and some calcium carbonate in it.
                  It is very easy to tell the difference. Ace Hardware is still stocking
                  the pure stuff in my area and it says so on the label. I haven't seen
                  the Roebic brand here yet. Thanks for the tip.

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, !Zapata Vive! <zapatavive@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > There have been a few recent references recently to "Red Devil Lye".
                  > I just wanted to mention that Red Devil no longer makes a pure lye
                  > product (NaOH). They discontinued it a few years ago due it's
                  > popularity among illicit drug manufacturers. But NaOH is also
                  > commonly used by many home chemists, ranging from the hobby
                  > experimenters to soap making and bio-fuels production. If you are
                  > looking for a replacement for Red Devil, the brand Roebic "crystal
                  > drain opener" is sold in many big hardware stores in the US including
                  > Lowes and sometimes even Walmart, and it is as pure (or purer even)
                  > than Red Devil, and comes in a bigger bottle too.
                  >
                  > Of course NaOH is also rather commonly available online as well, but
                  > the convenience of buying locally can't be beat.
                  >
                  > Just wanted to share an alternate source to another ridiculous
                  > casualty of prohibition.
                  >
                  > The two most recent references to Red Devil were:
                  > > I pointed you to the process outlined by wiki because it is the
                  > > traditional process. The modern process is in making hominy with
                  > > sodium hydroxide, caustic soda, lye. I use about 40 grams in 12
                  > > liters to do a small batch. I use the brand Red Devil because it is
                  > > pure lye. I heat mine to boiling, add whole corn bring back to a
                  > > boil, turn off heat and then let it set overnight. The next day the
                  > > pericarp and germ will fall off. I usually give it a good rinse and
                  > > most of it comes off with the rinsing. The soft starchy part is
                  > > easily mashed and if you get most of the pericarp and germ off in the
                  > > rinsing you get a pretty clear, non-viscous liquid that ferments real
                  > > good. The germ will usuall filter out really easy if you miss it.
                  > > This process sounds complicated but it yeilds much more convertable
                  > > starch.
                  >
                  > and:
                  > > Some readily available alkaline substances were Red Devil Lye(sodium
                  > > hydroxide) Arm and Hammer Washing soda (sodium carbonate) Arm and
                  > > Hammer Baking Soda( sodium bicarb.) hard wood ashes ( potassium
                  > > carbonate) caustic potash from ashes and calcium hydroxide(potassium
                  > > hydroxide) eggshells (calcium carbonate) and lime (calcium hydroxide)
                  > > and lastly ammonia hydrate(common household ammonia not the anhydrous
                  > > stuff)
                  >
                • Robert Hubble
                  Hi Pint, In the last year or so Red Devil has become unavailable in our area, but last month I picked up a 20 oz jar of Glug , a drain cleaner whose sole
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 3, 2007
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                    Hi Pint,

                    In the last year or so Red Devil has become unavailable in our area, but
                    last month I picked up a 20 oz jar of "Glug", a drain cleaner whose sole
                    listed ingredient is sodium hydroxide. Of course, it *may* have been on the
                    shelf for awhile in my small local hardware store, and he may not be able to
                    restock it.

                    No matter, it cleaned the HELL out my bathroom sink drain!



                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller





                    >From: "pint_o_shine" <pintoshine@...>
                    >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [Distillers] Re: Red Devil Lye, NaOH
                    >Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:18:50 -0000
                    >
                    >Fortunately in my area it is still available. I just bought some. It
                    >is a regional thing as to which is available. The contaminated stuff
                    >does indeed have small zinc pellets and some calcium carbonate in it.
                    >It is very easy to tell the difference. Ace Hardware is still stocking
                    >the pure stuff in my area and it says so on the label. I haven't seen
                    >the Roebic brand here yet. Thanks for the tip.
                    >
                    -----snip-----

                    > > > Some readily available alkaline substances were Red Devil Lye(sodium
                    > > > hydroxide) Arm and Hammer Washing soda (sodium carbonate) Arm and
                    > > > Hammer Baking Soda( sodium bicarb.) hard wood ashes ( potassium
                    > > > carbonate) caustic potash from ashes and calcium hydroxide(potassium
                    > > > hydroxide) eggshells (calcium carbonate) and lime (calcium hydroxide)
                    > > > and lastly ammonia hydrate(common household ammonia not the anhydrous
                    > > > stuff)
                    > >
                    >
                    >

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