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Re: Australian spirits

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  • waljaco
    We can talk about American Bourbon whiskey, Canadian whiskey but can we talk about a national Australian whisky? The Wild West had saloons where whiskey was
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 28, 2007
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      We can talk about American Bourbon whiskey, Canadian whiskey but can
      we talk about a national Australian whisky? The Wild West had saloons
      where whiskey was imbibed but Australia had pubs where beer was
      consumed. This is a legacy of the English being encouraged to replace
      gin with ale. The worst nightmare for an Australian would be "a pub
      with no beer".
      Distilleries were actively discouraged in Australia. In Tasmania in
      1839, Lt. Governor Franklin introduced legislation to abolish the
      local distilling industry in favour of brewing ale only.
      It's not there is no distilling in Australia, but that beer is king.
      wal
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Home Distiller <home_distiller@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
      >
      > > I wondered why Australia did not have such a strong
      > > distilling
      > > tradition as say the U.S. It appears that Australia
      > > was settled at the
      > > time that the British were turning to beer -
      >
      > Actually it's not as simple as that, firstly if you
      > red the extract from wikipedia the other day I posted
      > about the rum rebellion it mentions allegations of NSW
      > corps importing stills.
      >
      > Then a day or so later someone posted about the McRae
      > family in NZ, and these articles referenced the NSW
      > corps making booze from potatos.
      >
      > Combined with the fact that spirits didn't gain
      > popularity or notoriety in the US until prohibition
      > kicked in. This was simple logistics, because it was
      > easier to smuggle high proof booze then lots of low
      > proof booze. This also led to bathtub booze and people
      > that would never have thought about spirits including
      > children were suddenly up to their necks in it.
      >
      > Every prohibition or banning of something is a waste
      > of time because it only tends to make problems worst
      > not better like the teetotallers claim. Actually the
      > history of prohibition in the US is a very good
      > example/proof on why it's better to tax and control
      > drugs than enforcing bans on them with police and in
      > the process turing citizens into criminals.
      >
      > Maybe a politician will get a clue one day how telling
      > some people 'no' only makes them do it in any case,
      > but I doubt it.
      >
      >
      > ___________________________________________________________
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    • waljaco
      Apparently prior to the Fosters introducing German style lager we drank warm ale as in Merry England. Cooper s Ale is a legacy of that tradition. German style
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 28, 2007
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        Apparently prior to the Fosters introducing German style lager we
        drank warm ale as in Merry England. Cooper's Ale is a legacy of that
        tradition. German style lager had a problem to be accepted in America
        also because of anti-German prejudice. whereas German lager was pure
        malt, Australian lager had a large proportion of cane sugar which was
        good for the local sugar industry.
        wal
        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com> ,
        > "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I wondered why Australia did not have such a strong distilling
        > > tradition as say the U.S. It appears that Australia was settled at the
        > > time that the British were turning to beer -
        > >
        > > http://www.warrnamboolcam.com/pubs/history1.htm
        > <http://www.warrnamboolcam.com/pubs/history1.htm>
        > > http://www.warrnamboolcam.com/pubs/history2.htm
        > <http://www.warrnamboolcam.com/pubs/history2.htm>
        > >
        > > wal
        > >
        >
        >
        > An extract from that pub history2 article...
        >
        > "all that Australia need was a beer to call its own. - this happened in
        > 1887 when two New Yorkers arrived in Melbourne with refrigeration
        > equipment and set up a new brewery - yes it is true - two yanks teaching
        > us how to brew beer!! Actually I believe that they were originally from
        > Ireland so that might make it a less bitter pill to swallow..
        > Up until this time the local brewers only made heavy, sweet, warm, top
        > fermented ales, the Foster brothers brought with them the technology and
        > yeast strains to produce a lighter style of bottom fermenting lager that
        > could be served icy cold and more suited to the hotter climate (and the
        > tastes of local drinkers), it was an instant success and has become
        > Australians national drink -
        > Just to set the record straight the Foster brother were not the first to
        > brew lager in Australia - in 1885 Gambrinus Brewery in Melbourne became
        > Australia's first lager brewery."
        >
        >
        > That may well be the history of how Fosters became established in
        > Australia. However I take exception to the statement of Yanks teaching
        > us to make beer, and to the bit about their innovation with
        > refrigerating beer.
        >
        > Refrigeration process and equipment was invented and patented by an
        > Aussie, an ex-patriate Scotsman in fact, one James Harrison (it sent him
        > broke twice, by the way). He was quite a man and his story makes for
        > interesting reading.
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harrison_(engineer)
        > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harrison_(engineer)>
        > http://www3.telus.net/st_simons/cr0003.htm
        > <http://www3.telus.net/st_simons/cr0003.htm>
        >
        > Here's an extract from
        > http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A010479b.htm
        > <http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A010479b.htm>
        > that pertains to his refrigeration exploits and to its adoption by
        > Aussie brewers in 1854, well before 1887 when the Foster brothers
        > appeared on the scene...
        >
        > "Harrison's greatest achievement and much of his financial failure
        > stemmed from his inventions: he was a pioneer in all kinds of
        > refrigeration. At Geelong he designed and built the plant for the first
        > Australian manufacture of ice and began production at Rocky Point,
        > taking out a local patent in 1854. The Bendigo brewers, Glasgow & Co.,
        > soon adopted his principles in a pioneer mechanical refrigerator. In
        > 1856 Harrison went to London where he patented both his process (747 of
        > 1856) and his apparatus (2362 of 1857) and had talks with Faraday and
        > Tyndall. Siebe Brothers of Holborn used his designs to make improved
        > machinery which was shipped to Victoria in 1859. A short trial at new
        > works convinced Harrison that Geelong could not use three tons of ice
        > each day, so he moved to Melbourne where his daily output of ten tons
        > also exceeded demand. In 1860 he joined P. N. Russell in forming the
        > Sydney Ice Co., but it was soon bought out by rivals. Finding ice
        > unnecessary for many industrial purposes, Harrison designed a
        > revolutionary refrigerator, and patented it in 1860. It was used next
        > year in Scotland to distil paraffin, about the same time as Twining's
        > machine in the United States."
        >
        >
        > Slainte!
        > regards Harry
        >
      • waljaco
        Governor Lachlan Macquarie arrived in 1810 after the Rum Rebellion. He reduced the number of licensed taverns from 75 to 20 and clamped down on illegal stills.
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 28, 2007
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          Governor Lachlan Macquarie arrived in 1810 after the Rum Rebellion.
          He reduced the number of licensed taverns from 75 to 20 and clamped
          down on illegal stills.
          Where is the source that that the NSW Corps actually distilled from
          potatoes? They had a monopoly on the rum trade. Rum was imported as a
          sugar industry was not yet established.
          wal
          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
          >
          > We can talk about American Bourbon whiskey, Canadian whiskey but can
          > we talk about a national Australian whisky? The Wild West had saloons
          > where whiskey was imbibed but Australia had pubs where beer was
          > consumed. This is a legacy of the English being encouraged to replace
          > gin with ale. The worst nightmare for an Australian would be "a pub
          > with no beer".
          > Distilleries were actively discouraged in Australia. In Tasmania in
          > 1839, Lt. Governor Franklin introduced legislation to abolish the
          > local distilling industry in favour of brewing ale only.
          > It's not there is no distilling in Australia, but that beer is king.
          > wal
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Home Distiller <home_distiller@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > --- waljaco <waljaco@> wrote:
          > >
          > > > I wondered why Australia did not have such a strong
          > > > distilling
          > > > tradition as say the U.S. It appears that Australia
          > > > was settled at the
          > > > time that the British were turning to beer -
          > >
          > > Actually it's not as simple as that, firstly if you
          > > red the extract from wikipedia the other day I posted
          > > about the rum rebellion it mentions allegations of NSW
          > > corps importing stills.
          > >
          > > Then a day or so later someone posted about the McRae
          > > family in NZ, and these articles referenced the NSW
          > > corps making booze from potatos.
          > >
          > > Combined with the fact that spirits didn't gain
          > > popularity or notoriety in the US until prohibition
          > > kicked in. This was simple logistics, because it was
          > > easier to smuggle high proof booze then lots of low
          > > proof booze. This also led to bathtub booze and people
          > > that would never have thought about spirits including
          > > children were suddenly up to their necks in it.
          > >
          > > Every prohibition or banning of something is a waste
          > > of time because it only tends to make problems worst
          > > not better like the teetotallers claim. Actually the
          > > history of prohibition in the US is a very good
          > > example/proof on why it's better to tax and control
          > > drugs than enforcing bans on them with police and in
          > > the process turing citizens into criminals.
          > >
          > > Maybe a politician will get a clue one day how telling
          > > some people 'no' only makes them do it in any case,
          > > but I doubt it.
          > >
          > >
          > > ___________________________________________________________
          > > Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less,
          > sign up for
          > > your free account today
          >
          http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.html
          > >
          >
        • Home Distiller
          ... In the link you posted ;) http://blogs.smh.com.au/trampaboutnz/archives//013074.html If you think that prohibition was all a bit excessive and overly moral
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 29, 2007
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            --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:

            > Where is the source that that the NSW Corps actually
            > distilled from
            > potatoes?

            In the link you posted ;)

            http://blogs.smh.com.au/trampaboutnz/archives//013074.html

            If you think that prohibition was all a bit excessive
            and overly moral it is worth remembering that in the
            earliest days of the Southland colony there was a
            moonshine maker who produced a cabbage-tree distillate
            (makes the NSW Rum Corps potato hooch positively
            sophisticated by comparison)



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          • waljaco
            The claim in the article is not based on any credible source as far as I know. There is nothing in Australia to match the literature about U.S. distillation.
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 29, 2007
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              The claim in the article is not based on any credible source as far as
              I know. There is nothing in Australia to match the literature about
              U.S. distillation. But in Morewood's History of Inebriating Liquor,
              1838, we find on page 258 details of what was imported and what was
              distilled locally. No mention of a potato spirit. No idea what a
              cabbage-tree is.
              In the U.S. the government did not discourage legal distilleries. In
              Australia it did. Tax revenue is always welcomed!
              There are no economic obstacles to legalising home distillation. The
              obstacle is social - a fear of opening the gate to excessive binge
              drinking as in Victorian London.

              wal
              -

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Home Distiller <home_distiller@...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Where is the source that that the NSW Corps actually
              > > distilled from
              > > potatoes?
              >
              > In the link you posted ;)
              >
              > http://blogs.smh.com.au/trampaboutnz/archives//013074.html
              >
              > If you think that prohibition was all a bit excessive
              > and overly moral it is worth remembering that in the
              > earliest days of the Southland colony there was a
              > moonshine maker who produced a cabbage-tree distillate
              > (makes the NSW Rum Corps potato hooch positively
              > sophisticated by comparison)
              >
              >
              >
              > ___________________________________________________________
              > What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis
              of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship.
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              >
            • Home Distiller
              ... I came across an article on wikipedia that covered this topic more specifically. It points out nicely how those trying to restrict or ban alcohol sales
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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                --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
                > In the U.S. the government did not discourage legal
                > distilleries. In
                > Australia it did. Tax revenue is always welcomed!
                > There are no economic obstacles to legalising home
                > distillation. The
                > obstacle is social - a fear of opening the gate to
                > excessive binge
                > drinking as in Victorian London.

                I came across an article on wikipedia that covered
                this topic more specifically. It points out nicely how
                those trying to restrict or ban alcohol sales
                altogeather had things back fire and made problems
                worst not better.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_pubs

                After Federation of Australia in 1901, Australia's new
                system of federal government meant that the
                Commmonwealth of Australia had no power to legislate
                in this area, so each state enacted and enforced its
                own liquor licencing regulations. One outcome was that
                the relatively strict state liquor licencing regimes,
                and the absence of federal powers in this area, meant
                that the Prohibition lobby in Australia was unable to
                achieve a nationwide ban on the sale of alcohol.
                Although liquor sales remained heavily restricted for
                many years, Australia therefore did not experience the
                many social ills -- including the vast expansion of
                organised crime -- that were created by Prohibition in
                the United States in the 1920s.

                ...

                Temperance advocates feared -- with some justification
                -- that workers would spend all their time and money
                in the pub if they were permitted to stay there
                throughout the evening, and that children and families
                would suffer as a result (which they often did). Pubs
                were seen as a nexus for all kinds of immoral
                activity, including illegal "SP betting", and the
                Temperance movement lobbied long and hard to have
                public houses tightly regulated and their opening
                hours severely restricted.

                In this area, the "Wowsers" (as they were dubbed) were
                very successful but these high moral concerns
                backfired, at least in terms of liquor licencing, and
                the new laws led to the evolution of what was a new
                phenomenon in Australian 20th century pub culture.

                From the advent of the Eight Hour Day until the late
                1970s, most Australian blue-collar workers were tied
                to a 9am-5pm, Monday-to-Friday work schedule. Because
                most pubs were only permitted to stay open until 6pm,
                workers would commonly head for the nearest pub as
                soon as they finished work at 5pm, where they would
                drink as much as possible, as quickly as possible, in
                the hour before the pub closed. This practice came to
                be known as the "Six O'Clock Swill".

                It fostered an endemic culture of daily
                binge-drinking, which in turn created persistent
                problems of alcohol-related violence -- drunken
                patrons regularly got into alcohol-fuelled fights in
                and around the pub, and many husbands arrived home in
                the early evening extremely drunk, with negative
                consequences. This destructive 'tradition' persisted
                through most of the 20th century but it quickly
                disappeared after the 1960s, when changes to the
                licencing laws in most states allowed pubs to stay
                open until 10pm.




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              • waljaco
                It is useful to know the social context of drinking! wal
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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                  It is useful to know the social context of drinking!
                  wal
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Home Distiller
                  <home_distiller@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
                  > > In the U.S. the government did not discourage legal
                  > > distilleries. In
                  > > Australia it did. Tax revenue is always welcomed!
                  > > There are no economic obstacles to legalising home
                  > > distillation. The
                  > > obstacle is social - a fear of opening the gate to
                  > > excessive binge
                  > > drinking as in Victorian London.
                  >
                  > I came across an article on wikipedia that covered
                  > this topic more specifically. It points out nicely how
                  > those trying to restrict or ban alcohol sales
                  > altogeather had things back fire and made problems
                  > worst not better.
                  >
                  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_pubs
                  >
                  >
                • Home Distiller
                  ... I find/found it very interesting how completely different social and cultural structures form from common backgrounds.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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                    --- waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:

                    > It is useful to know the social context of drinking!

                    I find/found it very interesting how completely
                    different social and cultural structures form from
                    common backgrounds.


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