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Re: Blue vodka?

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  • tyler_97355
    I put normal 40% store bought vodka into a stainless steel flask. This is the fask i was using:
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 7 11:41 AM
      I put normal 40% store bought vodka into a stainless steel flask.
      This is the fask i was using:
      http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=809A735T&categoryid=70202

      I don't know what grade it is. The top and bottom look chromed, but
      the sides are "brushed". Yes, the vodka was clear. I am assuming that
      i just rinsed it out with water when i bought it.

      -Tyler
    • Claudio Vidussi
      Credo sia impossibile che un acciaio inox sia responsabile del colore azzurro , anche ammesso che non sia un AISI 316 L ma un semplice 304 , ti darebbe un
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 7 11:58 AM
        Credo sia impossibile che un'acciaio inox sia responsabile del colore azzurro , anche ammesso che non sia un AISI 316 L ma un semplice 304 , ti darebbe un colore giallo a causa delle cessioni di ossido di ferro , ma non il blu di cui parli , è impossibile . Secondo me sono cessioni di rame e tutti i libri che ho e che ho letto lo confermano , ci potrebbero essere anche altri motivi dovuti a trasformazioni chimiche avvenute durante la fermentazione e che sono proseguite nella distillazione , ma come dice Harry ci vogliono più informazioni , quello che hai scritto non è sufficente . Scusatemi se non ho scritto in Inglese ma non sono in grado di farlo correttamente , aiutatevi con un traduttore , oppure chiederò a Micio di tradurre . Ciao . Claudio.


        {Mod's Note: Babalfish is a poor translator, but I think you'll get the gist of what Claudio said]

        [Babelfish Translation: Italian to English]

        Creed impossible that a stainless steel is responsible of the blue color, also is admitted that it is not a 316 AISI L but simple 304, would give a yellow color to you because of the iron oxide cessions, but not the blue of which it speaks, is impossible. According to me they are cessions of branch and all the books that I have and that I have read confirm it, us they could be also other which had reasons to transformations chemistries happened during the fermentation and that they are continued in the distillation, but like Harry says wants more information to us, what you have written is not sufficente. You excuse to me if I have not written in English but they are not in a position to making it correctly, you help yourselves with a translator, or I will ask Micio translate. Hello. Claudius.
      • Harry
        ... http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=809A735T &categoryid=70202 ... AHA!! Now I can give you an answer (long-winded). There
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 7 2:51 PM


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tyler_97355" <kd7enm@...> wrote:
          >
          > I put normal 40% store bought vodka into a stainless steel flask.
          > This is the fask i was using:
          > http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=809A735T&categoryid=70202
          >
          > I don't know what grade it is. The top and bottom look chromed, but
          > the sides are "brushed". Yes, the vodka was clear. I am assuming that
          > i just rinsed it out with water when i bought it.
          >
          > -Tyler
          >

           

          AHA!!  Now I can give you an answer (long-winded).

          There are many types of stainless steels, each has been developed for specific uses (see references below my sigline).

          I also have one of those hip-flasks.  They are meant for short-term use, as in  putting in a few drinks for an afternoon at the football, not for long-term storage.

          This flask is made from a cast body & cast threaded closure of Duplex SS  ( ref. A  below).  The top & bottom plates are also Duplex SS, but not cast.

          So now we come to the Sherlock Holmes stuff.

          As you all know (I hope), the blue tinge in spirits is almost always traceable to Schweitzer's Reagent (ref. C below).  For this substance to form, it requires copper and ammonia to be in contact.

          Duplex SS for casting sometimes has copper added to the alloy to strengthen it (ref. B below), which I'm betting is the case here.   So now the 64 dollar question...where did the ammonia come from?

          Three possible sources:
          1.  The store-bought vodka.  Possibly not distilled correctly, or contained residues of yeast nutrients (common).
          2.  From cleaning agent residues in the hip-flask, left over from manufacture. 
          3.  From the rinse-water.  It may have been clorinated, or you may unwittingly have used a bleach-based cleaner.

          So there you have it.  That's my take on it.  If you want further info on how the blue colour is formed in distilling (& therefore how to avoid it), click the reference source link of ref. C below.

           

          HTH
          Slainte!
          regards Harry

           

          [Ref. A]
          Categories of Stainless Steels:

          I. Austenitic -   A family of alloys containing chromium and nickel (and manganese and nitrogen when nickel levels are reduced), generally built around the type 302 chemistry of 18% Cr, 8% Ni, and balance mostly Fe. These alloys are not hardenable by heat treatment.

          II. Ferritic -   This group of alloys generally containing only chromium, with the balance mostly Fe, are based upon the type 430 composition of 17% Cr. These alloys are somewhat less ductile than the austenitic types and again are not hardenable by heat treatment.

          III. Martensitic -   The members of this family of stainless steels may be hardened and tempered just like alloy steels. Their basic building block is type 410 which consists of 12% Cr, 0.12% C, and balance mostly Fe.

          IV. Precipitation-Hardening -   These alloys generally contain Cr and less than 8% Ni, with other elements in small amounts. As the name implies, they are hardenable by heat treatment.

          V. Duplex -   This is a stainless steel alloy group, or family, with two distinct microstructure phases -- ferrite and austenite. The Duplex alloys have greater resistance to chloride stress corrosion cracking and higher strength than the other austenitic or ferritic grades.

          VI. Cast -   The cast stainless steels, in general, are similar to the equivalent wrought alloys. Most of the cast alloys are direct derivatives of one of the wrought grades, as C-8 is the cast equivalent of wrought type 304. The C preceding a designation means that the alloy is primarily used for resistance to liquid corrosion. An H designation indicates high temperature applications.
          [ Source:  www.hghouston.com/ss_cat.html ]

           

          [Ref. B]
          <ext>
          Cast Stainless Steels

          The addition of copper to duplex (ferrite in austenite) nickel-chromium alloys produces alloys that can be precipitation hardened to higher strength and hardness. The addition of copper to single-phase austenitic alloys greatly improves their resistance to corrosion by sulfuric acid. In all iron-chromium-nickel stainless alloys, resistance to corrosion by environments that cause intergranular attack can be improved by lowering the carbon content.
          </ext>
          [ Source:  http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art67.htm ]

           

          [Ref. C]
          <
          ext>
          Schweitzer's reagent is cuprammonium hydroxide, and is formed when copper hydroxide dissolves in a dilute ammonia solution). It is a deep blue colour, and is particularly known for its ability to dissolve cotton. The chemist who first discovered this property was Eduard Mathias Schweizer (1818 -1860), so it seems that it should really be called Schweizer's reagent.
          </ext>
          [ Source:  Mike Nixon in
          http://www.homedistiller.org/dtw.htm
          ]

        • miciofelice2003
          Ciao to everybody. I saw the Claudio s post and I saw also the translation of Babelfish: better to help. Translation (as best I can): In my opinion it s
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 11 5:34 PM
            Ciao to everybody.

            I saw the Claudio's post and I saw also the translation of Babelfish:
            better to help.

            Translation (as best I can):

            In my opinion it's impossible that an inox steel can give a blue
            teint: even if not an AISI 316 L but a simple AISI 304, it will give
            an jellow colour due to the releases of iron oxides and not a blue
            teint.

            My opinion is that are copper releases, and this is confirmed by all
            the book I have and have read.

            Also some other things should be responsible of the fact, like some
            chemical reactions happened during the fermentation and continued in
            distillation but, according to Harry, more informations are needed,
            what you wrote isn't enough.

            So, this is what Claudio wrote.

            I agree with you, Harry: Babelfish is really a poor translator.

            Ciao a tutti

            micio felice




            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Claudio Vidussi <cvidussi@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Credo sia impossibile che un'acciaio inox sia responsabile del
            colore azzurro , anche ammesso che non sia un AISI 316 L ma un
            semplice 304 , ti darebbe un colore giallo a causa delle cessioni di
            ossido di ferro , ma non il blu di cui parli , è impossibile .
            Secondo me sono cessioni di rame e tutti i libri che ho e che ho
            letto lo confermano , ci potrebbero essere anche altri motivi dovuti
            a trasformazioni chimiche avvenute durante la fermentazione e che
            sono proseguite nella distillazione , ma come dice Harry ci vogliono
            più informazioni , quello che hai scritto non è sufficente .
            Scusatemi se non ho scritto in Inglese ma non sono in grado di farlo
            correttamente , aiutatevi con un traduttore , oppure chiederò a Micio
            di tradurre . Ciao . Claudio.
            >
            >
            > {Mod's Note: Babalfish is a poor translator, but I think you'll
            get the gist of what Claudio said]
            >
            > [Babelfish Translation: Italian to English]
            >
            > Creed impossible that a stainless steel is responsible of the blue
            color, also is admitted that it is not a 316 AISI L but simple 304,
            would give a yellow color to you because of the iron oxide cessions,
            but not the blue of which it speaks, is impossible. According to me
            they are cessions of branch and all the books that I have and that I
            have read confirm it, us they could be also other which had reasons
            to transformations chemistries happened during the fermentation and
            that they are continued in the distillation, but like Harry says
            wants more information to us, what you have written is not
            sufficente. You excuse to me if I have not written in English but
            they are not in a position to making it correctly, you help
            yourselves with a translator, or I will ask Micio translate. Hello.
            Claudius.
            >
          • miciofelice2003
            Sorry: not teint but tinge . micio felice ... give ... all ... in ... di ... dovuti ... vogliono ... farlo ... Micio ... blue ... cessions, ... I
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 11 5:38 PM
              Sorry: not "teint" but "tinge".

              micio felice




              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "miciofelice2003"
              <miciofelice2003@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ciao to everybody.
              >
              > I saw the Claudio's post and I saw also the translation of
              Babelfish:
              > better to help.
              >
              > Translation (as best I can):
              >
              > In my opinion it's impossible that an inox steel can give a blue
              > teint: even if not an AISI 316 L but a simple AISI 304, it will
              give
              > an jellow colour due to the releases of iron oxides and not a blue
              > teint.
              >
              > My opinion is that are copper releases, and this is confirmed by
              all
              > the book I have and have read.
              >
              > Also some other things should be responsible of the fact, like some
              > chemical reactions happened during the fermentation and continued
              in
              > distillation but, according to Harry, more informations are needed,
              > what you wrote isn't enough.
              >
              > So, this is what Claudio wrote.
              >
              > I agree with you, Harry: Babelfish is really a poor translator.
              >
              > Ciao a tutti
              >
              > micio felice
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Claudio Vidussi <cvidussi@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Credo sia impossibile che un'acciaio inox sia responsabile del
              > colore azzurro , anche ammesso che non sia un AISI 316 L ma un
              > semplice 304 , ti darebbe un colore giallo a causa delle cessioni
              di
              > ossido di ferro , ma non il blu di cui parli , è impossibile .
              > Secondo me sono cessioni di rame e tutti i libri che ho e che ho
              > letto lo confermano , ci potrebbero essere anche altri motivi
              dovuti
              > a trasformazioni chimiche avvenute durante la fermentazione e che
              > sono proseguite nella distillazione , ma come dice Harry ci
              vogliono
              > più informazioni , quello che hai scritto non è sufficente .
              > Scusatemi se non ho scritto in Inglese ma non sono in grado di
              farlo
              > correttamente , aiutatevi con un traduttore , oppure chiederò a
              Micio
              > di tradurre . Ciao . Claudio.
              > >
              > >
              > > {Mod's Note: Babalfish is a poor translator, but I think you'll
              > get the gist of what Claudio said]
              > >
              > > [Babelfish Translation: Italian to English]
              > >
              > > Creed impossible that a stainless steel is responsible of the
              blue
              > color, also is admitted that it is not a 316 AISI L but simple 304,
              > would give a yellow color to you because of the iron oxide
              cessions,
              > but not the blue of which it speaks, is impossible. According to me
              > they are cessions of branch and all the books that I have and that
              I
              > have read confirm it, us they could be also other which had reasons
              > to transformations chemistries happened during the fermentation and
              > that they are continued in the distillation, but like Harry says
              > wants more information to us, what you have written is not
              > sufficente. You excuse to me if I have not written in English but
              > they are not in a position to making it correctly, you help
              > yourselves with a translator, or I will ask Micio translate. Hello.
              > Claudius.
              > >
              >
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