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RE: [Distillers] Re: RUM

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  • Anthony Athawes
    Yes, Ian, I did appreciate that the PDA was a highly refluctive – but the high rate of production makes it an interesting future possibility. Are there any
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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      Yes, Ian, I did appreciate that the PDA was a highly refluctive – but the high rate of production makes it an interesting future possibility. Are there any drawings about?

       

      For the Rum, I’ll stick to 30% packing and no reflux on the WCP. I shall use your olive oil treatment (at sea it was surprising how a little oil would improve conditions), and leave the lid off up to 60 C. Thereafter, I think it will be a blend of your’s and Derek’s methods – probably, a first speedy pass followed by fine cuts and introduction of Dunder

       

      Thank you both very much for all your help. Finland has promised a contribution ASAP. Hope it’s in English!

       

      Tony A

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ian
      Sent: 31 March 2007 23:41
      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: RUM

       

      Gidday once again :)

       

      A PDA-1 is exactly what you don't want too be making rum,  or any flavoured sprit,

      Unless you want too make rum that tastes like cheep vodka :)

    • anthony547357
      -Thank you for this Rob. You re the first person to come up with an answer. I have to hand what I call a Saudi still drawing that was written up possibly 20
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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        -Thank you for this Rob. You're the first person to come up with an
        answer. I have to hand what I call a "Saudi" still drawing that was
        written up possibly 20 years ago. It appears to work continuously by
        syphoning, so what happens to the methanol? At any rate, I have
        wondered who the author was - and whether he is still with us.

        Tony A


        -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Ah, the World Class still!
        > That was Dr. Inigo World and Professor Johan-Gustav Class that
        invented
        > that one.
        > ;)
        > Rob.
        >
        > --- Anthony Athawes <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Hi Rob,
        > >
        > > I admire your imagination and constructiveness. However, it
        stands
        > > for
        > > "World Class Still". I've always thought it a rather high-blown
        title
        > > but
        > > would like to know the name of its inventor. Whatever, this
        reflux
        > > model
        > > seems to be well thought of. You might make one for £50 though
        mine
        > > cost
        > > double that having to get some of the more skilled work done
        outside.
        > > I'd
        > > like to have a PDA1.
        > >
        > > Tony A
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > > [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
        > > Behalf Of Robert Thomas
        > > Sent: 31 March 2007 16:41
        > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: RUM
        > >
        > >
        > > --- anthony547357 < Anthony.Athawes@...
        > > <mailto:Anthony.Athawes%40btinternet.com> > wrote:
        > >
        > > <snip>
        > > > 60 cc per minute! Mine is a WCStill.
        > >
        > > Now that i'd like to see! A WC still! I guess you have to be
        fairly
        > > quick before it is needed for other duties? Is it continuous, fed
        > > from
        > > the cistern? Or just batch mode with a flush for each new charge
        of
        > > wash?
        > >
        > > Rob.
        > >
        > > Cheers,
        > > Rob.
        > >
        > > __________________________________________________________
        > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
        > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
        > > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
        > > <http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265>
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Rob.
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Harry
        ... ... Oops! The sarcasm got lost, Rob. :) Slainte! regards Harry
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthony547357"
          <Anthony.Athawes@...> wrote:
          >
          > -Thank you for this Rob. You're the first person to come up with an
          > answer.
          <snip>
          >
          > Tony A




          Oops! The sarcasm got lost, Rob. :)


          Slainte!
          regards Harry
        • Robert Thomas
          Perhaps I should have posted it on the 1st of april! Rob. ... Cheers, Rob. ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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            Perhaps I should have posted it on the 1st of april!
            Rob.

            --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthony547357"
            > <Anthony.Athawes@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > -Thank you for this Rob. You're the first person to come up with an
            >
            > > answer.
            > <snip>
            > >
            > > Tony A
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Oops! The sarcasm got lost, Rob. :)
            >
            >
            > Slainte!
            > regards Harry
            >
            >
            >


            Cheers,
            Rob.



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          • cornfeints
            ... but the ... possibility. Are ... Hello guys, Please take it from someone who owns and uses a PDA1. This is a very flexible still. It can oprate fully
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Athawes"
              <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes, Ian, I did appreciate that the PDA was a highly refluctive –
              but the
              > high rate of production makes it an interesting future
              possibility. Are
              > there any drawings about?



              Hello guys, Please take it from someone who owns and uses a PDA1.
              This is a very flexible still. It can oprate fully packed with a
              high degree of reflux to produce neutral spirits or it can run
              detuned and without packing to produce flavor positive spirits such
              as rum amd whiskey (this is what I run 90% of the time). I couldn't
              ask for a boetter, more flexible unit.
            • Thomas Smith
              Hi Harry, I have been monitoring these emails and it seems you have a lot of knowledge. I have a question. I make straight corn washes and the end product
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                Hi Harry,
                 
                I have been monitoring these emails and it seems you have a lot of knowledge. I have a question.  I make straight corn washes and the end product comes up bitter. I think I am not clearing the wash well enough. after straining through a nylon stocking and letting settle over night in 20 degree weather the top half is somewhat clear but the bottom half has the consistency of pancake batter.  does any body have any ideas on filtering this. perhaps a sand swimming pool filter or a centrifugal filter to clarifiy this for stripping. any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
                 
                youngblood
                 
                from the great white north----- Original Message -----
                From: Harry
                Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:41 AM
                Subject: [Distillers] Re: RUM

                --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "anthony547357"
                <Anthony.Athawes@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > -Thank you for this Rob. You're the first person to come up with an
                > answer.
                <snip>
                >
                > Tony A

                Oops! The sarcasm got lost, Rob. :)

                Slainte!
                regards Harry

              • Harry
                ... knowledge. I have a question. I make straight corn washes and the end product comes up bitter. I think I am not clearing the wash well enough. after
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Smith"
                  <smiththomas9263@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Harry,
                  >
                  > I have been monitoring these emails and it seems you have a lot of
                  knowledge. I have a question. I make straight corn washes and the
                  end product comes up bitter. I think I am not clearing the wash well
                  enough. after straining through a nylon stocking and letting settle
                  over night in 20 degree weather the top half is somewhat clear but
                  the bottom half has the consistency of pancake batter. does any
                  body have any ideas on filtering this. perhaps a sand swimming pool
                  filter or a centrifugal filter to clarifiy this for stripping. any
                  information you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
                  >
                  > youngblood


                  Centrifuges work...expensive.
                  Sand filters work.........messy, time-consuming.
                  Decanting into 20 lt pails & freezing works...I often do this, but
                  then I've got the facilities.
                  Time works....probably the best option of all for amateur stillers.

                  If you don't open the fermenter, you avoid the possibility of
                  infections. Then you can just leave it sit for a week or so before
                  distilling. Two benefits of this...
                  1) The yeast will go dormant & drop out (which is what you want).
                  2) The beer gets a Diacetyl rest (look it up). Beneficial to final
                  taste & quality of spirits.


                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                • Trid
                  ... If I recall correctly, in the context of whisky, diacetyl is desirable. Doesn t this correspond with using butter as an anti-foaming agent in terms of
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                    --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

                    > 2) The beer gets a Diacetyl rest (look it up). Beneficial to final
                    > taste & quality of spirits.

                    If I recall correctly, in the context of whisky, diacetyl is desirable.
                    Doesn't this correspond with using butter as an anti-foaming agent in terms of
                    flavor profile? Then again, in the context of rum, it could all be different.

                    Either way, I figured I'd at least raise the question.

                    Trid
                  • Harry
                    ... final ... desirable. ... in terms of ... be different. ... And a good question to raise, Trid. Diacetyl is the scourge of brewers. Some yeast strains
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > 2) The beer gets a Diacetyl rest (look it up). Beneficial to
                      final
                      > > taste & quality of spirits.
                      >
                      > If I recall correctly, in the context of whisky, diacetyl is
                      desirable.
                      > Doesn't this correspond with using butter as an anti-foaming agent
                      in terms of
                      > flavor profile? Then again, in the context of rum, it could all
                      be different.
                      >
                      > Either way, I figured I'd at least raise the question.
                      >
                      > Trid
                      >


                      And a good question to raise, Trid.
                      Diacetyl is the scourge of brewers. Some yeast strains produce
                      copious amounts of it. However a LITTLE in whisky is not so bad.
                      It provides a slight butterscotch flavour (which is why they use
                      butter to kill foaming; it's flavour is compatible).

                      But butterscotch notes in rums, vodkas, or really anything else bar
                      whisky is not part of those spirits' flavour & aroma profiles.


                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
                    • Thomas Smith
                      Acording to Smileys book you should never let the wash set but distill right away to avoid off flavors. is this just his opinion or have you found this not
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                        Acording to Smileys book you should never let the wash set  but distill  right away to avoid off flavors.  is this just his opinion or have you found this not to be true?
                         
                        Tom
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Harry
                        Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:53 PM
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: RUM

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "Thomas Smith"
                        <smiththomas9263@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Harry,
                        >
                        > I have been monitoring these emails and it seems you have a lot of
                        knowledge. I have a question. I make straight corn washes and the
                        end product comes up bitter. I think I am not clearing the wash well
                        enough. after straining through a nylon stocking and letting settle
                        over night in 20 degree weather the top half is somewhat clear but
                        the bottom half has the consistency of pancake batter. does any
                        body have any ideas on filtering this. perhaps a sand swimming pool
                        filter or a centrifugal filter to clarifiy this for stripping. any
                        information you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
                        >
                        > youngblood

                        Centrifuges work...expensive.
                        Sand filters work........ .messy, time-consuming.
                        Decanting into 20 lt pails & freezing works...I often do this, but
                        then I've got the facilities.
                        Time works....probably the best option of all for amateur stillers.

                        If you don't open the fermenter, you avoid the possibility of
                        infections. Then you can just leave it sit for a week or so before
                        distilling. Two benefits of this...
                        1) The yeast will go dormant & drop out (which is what you want).
                        2) The beer gets a Diacetyl rest (look it up). Beneficial to final
                        taste & quality of spirits.

                        Slainte!
                        regards Harry

                      • Harry
                        ... distill right away to avoid off flavors. is this just his opinion or have you found this not to be true? ... It depends on what you re making, and what
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Smith"
                          <smiththomas9263@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Acording to Smileys book you should never let the wash set but
                          distill right away to avoid off flavors. is this just his opinion
                          or have you found this not to be true?
                          >
                          > Tom


                          It depends on what you're making, and what you're using as a
                          substrate (sugar source). For most grain-based whiskys, it's normal
                          to distil off as soon as the ferment is done. This is to avoid
                          spoilage as it is common for grains to carry large colonies of
                          bacteria. When the ferment is nearly complete, the more hardy (pH
                          tolerant) of these can then have a chance to multiply. Sometimes
                          this is actually desirable, most often not. Lactobacillus is one
                          that is desirable for whisky, yet is a known producer of Diacetyl
                          among other things.

                          It depends on what style you're after. Remember there's well over
                          4,000 different Scotch Malts & blends alone, not to mention the
                          American & Irish contributions. This early distilling of whisky
                          beers also accounts for the small amount of diacetyl commonly
                          present (and tolerated) in the distillate, as there has been no
                          diacetyl rest.

                          The situation is different for molasses or sugar beers (used for
                          rums & sometimes vodkas). Clarified molasses has almost no bacteria
                          left in it. In fact a culture of bacteria obtained from cane
                          bagasse (processed fibre) is often ADDED to the ferment to enhance
                          the product flavours. Refined sugar has no bacteria. Both of these
                          will produce beers (ferments) that can stand several weeks of
                          settling or storage, PROVIDED the container seal has not been
                          breached or opened to atmosphere as this WILL allow bacteria in and
                          the result will be spoilt beer.

                          In all cases, even your whiskys, if you find that your strain of
                          yeast is producing a decidedly butterscotch overtone in your
                          finished spirits, then you have to decide if this is what you want
                          in your style of product. If you like it, then just continue as you
                          normally do. If not, then you need to give your finished beer a
                          diacetyl rest, which will reduce the amount via yeast reabsorption.

                          For a very good description on Diacetyl, its formation & how to
                          remove it, go here...
                          http://beerme.com/diacetyl.shtml


                          HTH
                          Slainte!
                          regards Harry
                        • morganfield1
                          I know you were trying to keep this a secret, but I guess the cat is out of the bag (you are the Orical, after all). Tip one, Morgan ... knowledge.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                            I know you were trying to keep this a secret, but I guess the cat is
                            out of the bag (you are the Orical, after all).
                            Tip one, Morgan

                            >Hi Harry,
                            > I have been monitoring these emails and it seems you have a lot of
                            knowledge.
                          • juliet kent
                            Would you mind forwarding that picture to me too Ian. Am thinking of having a crack at making one and it sounds simple enough even for me. Cheers , Juliet
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 3, 2007
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                              Would you mind forwarding that picture to me too Ian. Am thinking of having
                              a crack at making one and it sounds simple enough even for me. Cheers ,
                              Juliet


                              >From: "Ian" <ian@...>
                              >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                              >Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: RUM
                              >Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 08:40:30 +1000
                              >
                              >Gidday once again :)
                              >
                              >A PDA-1 is exactly what you don't want too be making rum, or any flavoured
                              >sprit,
                              >Unless you want too make rum that tastes like cheep vodka :)
                              >
                              >It'll make an almost flavourless sprit, at a high %,
                              >
                              >You want a simple pot still, Ive forwarded you a picture of mine,
                              >Pot stills are super easy too make,
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Anthony Athawes
                              > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 2:07 AM
                              > Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: RUM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Rob,
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I admire your imagination and constructiveness. However, it stands for
                              >"World Class Still". I've always thought it a rather high-blown title but
                              >would like to know the name of its inventor. Whatever, this reflux model
                              >seems to be well thought of. You might make one for �50 though mine cost
                              >double that having to get some of the more skilled work done outside. I'd
                              >like to have a PDA1.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Tony A
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                              >Behalf Of Robert Thomas
                              > Sent: 31 March 2007 16:41
                              > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: RUM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- anthony547357 <Anthony.Athawes@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > <snip>
                              > > 60 cc per minute! Mine is a WCStill.
                              >
                              > Now that i'd like to see! A WC still! I guess you have to be fairly
                              > quick before it is needed for other duties? Is it continuous, fed from
                              > the cistern? Or just batch mode with a flush for each new charge of
                              > wash?
                              >
                              > Rob.
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > Rob.
                              >
                              > __________________________________________________________
                              > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                              > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                              > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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