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Re: Calling all Scotch afficionados

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  • abbababbaccc
    Excellent information, thank you Mal and Harry! It s quite interesting to note that the ABV of low wines can be as low as 25%. I usually end up in the low 30%
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 12, 2007
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      Excellent information, thank you Mal and Harry! It's quite
      interesting to note that the ABV of low wines can be as low as 25%.
      I usually end up in the low 30% myself. This is especially important
      if you do cuts by ABV, higher starting ABV will necessitate you to
      take cuts at higher ABV as well.

      Cheers, Riku

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Ever wonder what the secrets to Islay malt whiskies are?
      > Now you can find out. Mal Taylor (Duds2u) has put together
      > a summary set of facts to help you understand and
      > possibly reproduce some of these fine expressions.
      > Fascinating reading.
      >
      >
      http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/IslayFacts/Islay_Distilleries
      _Fa\
      > ctfiles.htm
      >
      <http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/IslayFacts/Islay_Distillerie
      s_F\
      > actfiles.htm>
      >
      >
      >
      > Slainte!
      > regards Harry
      >
    • Harry
      ... There s quite a few points in this info that have been debated at length in the groups. Things like... a) Deliberate low-strength wash (6.5% to 9.0%). b)
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 12, 2007
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Excellent information, thank you Mal and Harry! It's quite
        > interesting to note that the ABV of low wines can be as low as 25%.
        > I usually end up in the low 30% myself. This is especially important
        > if you do cuts by ABV, higher starting ABV will necessitate you to
        > take cuts at higher ABV as well.
        >
        > Cheers, Riku



        There's quite a few points in this info that have been debated at
        length in the groups. Things like...

        a) Deliberate low-strength wash (6.5% to 9.0%).
        b) The use of two different yeasts in a ferment.
        c) Low wines charge strength (22% to 25%) adjusted UPWARDS to 28% for
        2nd distillation (still a low start point), presumably by the addition
        of higher strength feints.

        Most of these ideas I have written about before, either in posts
        (Glenmorangie Clone)or in papers such as this one...
        http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/

        Commercial distillers don't use high ABV washes, nor high-strength 2nd
        runnings charges (although they easily could if they wished, given
        today's technology and bean-counters penchant for reducing production
        costs wherever they can, such as energy input).

        So, ask yourselves why. Risk of explosion? Probably. Inferior
        product? Most likely. Tradition? Obviously.
        Is the 2nd charge starting strength designed to hit a precise
        percentage range in final product? Certainly. That was what I
        outlined in the "Diluting the still charge" paper.

        I've said before & I'll say it again. I don't understand the modern
        hobbyists obsession with turbo yeasts, high strength washes and final
        runnings. Yes it works and is a 'quick & dirty' way of producing an
        ordinary spirit. But surely it can be seen that such differences,
        even small ones, will produce a spirit lacking in flavour & body, and
        nothing like the $100 a bottle brands that tempted us to try our hand
        in the first place?

        Oh well, to each his own. But thanks to Mal's summary, we now have
        proof positive that good spirits are crafted by methods vastly
        different to what many hobbyists think is intuitive. Food for thought.


        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • duds2u
        ... If you can get hold of the book, Peat Smoke and Spirits by Andrew Jefford it is well worth the read as there are quite a few other nuggets in the text.
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 12, 2007
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Ever wonder what the secrets to Islay malt whiskies are?
          > Now you can find out. Mal Taylor (Duds2u) has put together
          > a summary set of facts to help you understand and
          > possibly reproduce some of these fine expressions.
          > Fascinating reading.
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          >
          If you can get hold of the book, 'Peat Smoke and Spirits" by Andrew
          Jefford it is well worth the read as there are quite a few
          other "nuggets" in the text. The book is essentially a journey
          through the history of Islay and the island itself but with an
          emphasis on malt whisky. Each of the distilleries has a chapter
          devoted to it's history and operations.
          For Queenslanders check out the QLD Book Depot as they recently had
          them on special for AUD$5 instead of the usual AUD$36.
          Cheers
          Mal T.
        • anthony547357
          -This seems to raise an interseting point on using Tubo yeast. Turbo appears to give around 18% wash whereas ordinary dried yeast gives perhaps 12 or 13%ABV in
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 13, 2007
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            -This seems to raise an interseting point on using Tubo yeast. Turbo
            appears to give around 18% wash whereas ordinary dried yeast gives
            perhaps 12 or 13%ABV in a longer space of time. So where's the sugar
            conversion gone? Presumably they both give 5 gallons of wash, give
            or take? I would imagine the higher ABV yields more alcohol, but as
            Harry suggests, there may be some penalty in flavour.

            Tony

            -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Excellent information, thank you Mal and Harry! It's quite
            > > interesting to note that the ABV of low wines can be as low as
            25%.
            > > I usually end up in the low 30% myself. This is especially
            important
            > > if you do cuts by ABV, higher starting ABV will necessitate you
            to
            > > take cuts at higher ABV as well.
            > >
            > > Cheers, Riku
            >
            >
            >
            > There's quite a few points in this info that have been debated at
            > length in the groups. Things like...
            >
            > a) Deliberate low-strength wash (6.5% to 9.0%).
            > b) The use of two different yeasts in a ferment.
            > c) Low wines charge strength (22% to 25%) adjusted UPWARDS to 28%
            for
            > 2nd distillation (still a low start point), presumably by the
            addition
            > of higher strength feints.
            >
            > Most of these ideas I have written about before, either in posts
            > (Glenmorangie Clone)or in papers such as this one...
            > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/
            >
            > Commercial distillers don't use high ABV washes, nor high-strength
            2nd
            > runnings charges (although they easily could if they wished, given
            > today's technology and bean-counters penchant for reducing
            production
            > costs wherever they can, such as energy input).
            >
            > So, ask yourselves why. Risk of explosion? Probably. Inferior
            > product? Most likely. Tradition? Obviously.
            > Is the 2nd charge starting strength designed to hit a precise
            > percentage range in final product? Certainly. That was what I
            > outlined in the "Diluting the still charge" paper.
            >
            > I've said before & I'll say it again. I don't understand the
            modern
            > hobbyists obsession with turbo yeasts, high strength washes and
            final
            > runnings. Yes it works and is a 'quick & dirty' way of producing
            an
            > ordinary spirit. But surely it can be seen that such differences,
            > even small ones, will produce a spirit lacking in flavour & body,
            and
            > nothing like the $100 a bottle brands that tempted us to try our
            hand
            > in the first place?
            >
            > Oh well, to each his own. But thanks to Mal's summary, we now
            have
            > proof positive that good spirits are crafted by methods vastly
            > different to what many hobbyists think is intuitive. Food for
            thought.
            >
            >
            > Slainte!
            > regards Harry
            >
          • Sven Pfitt
            The sugar hasn t gone anywhere. You start the bakers yeast wash at a lower specific gravity (less sugar to start with). Both end up with no sugar left. If you
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 14, 2007
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              The sugar hasn't gone anywhere.

              You start the bakers yeast wash at a lower specific gravity (less
              sugar to start with). Both end up with no sugar left.

              If you start both with the same amount of sugar (say 8KG for 5
              gallons) then the bakers yeast will poop out with sugar left in the
              wash which will cause foaming and possibly burnt sugar flavors in the
              product.

              Theoretically.

              Sven

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthony547357"
              <Anthony.Athawes@...> wrote:
              >
              > -This seems to raise an interseting point on using Tubo yeast.
              Turbo
              > appears to give around 18% wash whereas ordinary dried yeast gives
              > perhaps 12 or 13%ABV in a longer space of time. So where's the
              sugar
              > conversion gone? Presumably they both give 5 gallons of wash, give
              > or take? I would imagine the higher ABV yields more alcohol, but as
              > Harry suggests, there may be some penalty in flavour.
              >
              > Tony
              >
              > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Excellent information, thank you Mal and Harry! It's quite
              > > > interesting to note that the ABV of low wines can be as low as
              > 25%.
              > > > I usually end up in the low 30% myself. This is especially
              > important
              > > > if you do cuts by ABV, higher starting ABV will necessitate you
              > to
              > > > take cuts at higher ABV as well.
              > > >
              > > > Cheers, Riku
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > There's quite a few points in this info that have been debated at
              > > length in the groups. Things like...
              > >
              > > a) Deliberate low-strength wash (6.5% to 9.0%).
              > > b) The use of two different yeasts in a ferment.
              > > c) Low wines charge strength (22% to 25%) adjusted UPWARDS to 28%
              > for
              > > 2nd distillation (still a low start point), presumably by the
              > addition
              > > of higher strength feints.
              > >
              > > Most of these ideas I have written about before, either in posts
              > > (Glenmorangie Clone)or in papers such as this one...
              > > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/
              > >
              > > Commercial distillers don't use high ABV washes, nor high-
              strength
              > 2nd
              > > runnings charges (although they easily could if they wished,
              given
              > > today's technology and bean-counters penchant for reducing
              > production
              > > costs wherever they can, such as energy input).
              > >
              > > So, ask yourselves why. Risk of explosion? Probably. Inferior
              > > product? Most likely. Tradition? Obviously.
              > > Is the 2nd charge starting strength designed to hit a precise
              > > percentage range in final product? Certainly. That was what I
              > > outlined in the "Diluting the still charge" paper.
              > >
              > > I've said before & I'll say it again. I don't understand the
              > modern
              > > hobbyists obsession with turbo yeasts, high strength washes and
              > final
              > > runnings. Yes it works and is a 'quick & dirty' way of producing
              > an
              > > ordinary spirit. But surely it can be seen that such
              differences,
              > > even small ones, will produce a spirit lacking in flavour & body,
              > and
              > > nothing like the $100 a bottle brands that tempted us to try our
              > hand
              > > in the first place?
              > >
              > > Oh well, to each his own. But thanks to Mal's summary, we now
              > have
              > > proof positive that good spirits are crafted by methods vastly
              > > different to what many hobbyists think is intuitive. Food for
              > thought.
              > >
              > >
              > > Slainte!
              > > regards Harry
              > >
              >
            • abbababbaccc
              Sven, I have understood that the reason for foaming are proteins in the mash, not sugar? Cheers, Riku
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 14, 2007
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                Sven,

                I have understood that the reason for foaming are proteins in the mash,
                not sugar?

                Cheers, Riku

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98@...> wrote:
                >
                > The sugar hasn't gone anywhere.
                >
                > You start the bakers yeast wash at a lower specific gravity (less
                > sugar to start with). Both end up with no sugar left.
                >
                > If you start both with the same amount of sugar (say 8KG for 5
                > gallons) then the bakers yeast will poop out with sugar left in the
                > wash which will cause foaming and possibly burnt sugar flavors in the
                > product.
                >
                > Theoretically.
                >
                > Sven
                >
                >
              • lionchow
                That s a great document, thanks. Cheers, J
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 15, 2007
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                  That's a great document, thanks.

                  Cheers,
                  J

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "duds2u" <taylormc@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Ever wonder what the secrets to Islay malt whiskies are?
                  > > Now you can find out. Mal Taylor (Duds2u) has put together
                  > > a summary set of facts to help you understand and
                  > > possibly reproduce some of these fine expressions.
                  > > Fascinating reading.
                  > >
                  > > Slainte!
                  > > regards Harry
                  > >
                  > If you can get hold of the book, 'Peat Smoke and Spirits" by Andrew
                  > Jefford it is well worth the read as there are quite a few
                  > other "nuggets" in the text. The book is essentially a journey
                  > through the history of Islay and the island itself but with an
                  > emphasis on malt whisky. Each of the distilleries has a chapter
                  > devoted to it's history and operations.
                  > For Queenslanders check out the QLD Book Depot as they recently had
                  > them on special for AUD$5 instead of the usual AUD$36.
                  > Cheers
                  > Mal T.
                  >
                • surya9375
                  Hi guys Just to be of some input. Although for my first distillations I used turbo and the sort, now I just use ordinary bakers yeast. The best I get out of it
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 15, 2007
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                    Hi guys
                    Just to be of some input. Although for my first distillations I used
                    turbo and the sort, now I just use ordinary bakers yeast. The best I
                    get out of it is 9% mostly 8%. As for taste?? I make vodka and I put
                    the product through a real good process. I let it mature (yeah I
                    mature vodka :-) ) Carbon filtration and the works. So I guess even
                    if there was an off taste I wouldn't know.

                    But the point is that with bakers yeast I have never got more than 9%
                    in the mash.

                    Regards
                    Surya

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthony547357"
                    <Anthony.Athawes@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > -This seems to raise an interseting point on using Tubo yeast. Turbo
                    > appears to give around 18% wash whereas ordinary dried yeast gives
                    > perhaps 12 or 13%ABV in a longer space of time. So where's the sugar
                    > conversion gone? Presumably they both give 5 gallons of wash, give
                    > or take? I would imagine the higher ABV yields more alcohol, but as
                    > Harry suggests, there may be some penalty in flavour.
                    >
                    > Tony
                    >
                    > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Excellent information, thank you Mal and Harry! It's quite
                    > > > interesting to note that the ABV of low wines can be as low as
                    > 25%.
                    > > > I usually end up in the low 30% myself. This is especially
                    > important
                    > > > if you do cuts by ABV, higher starting ABV will necessitate you
                    > to
                    > > > take cuts at higher ABV as well.
                    > > >
                    > > > Cheers, Riku
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > There's quite a few points in this info that have been debated at
                    > > length in the groups. Things like...
                    > >
                    > > a) Deliberate low-strength wash (6.5% to 9.0%).
                    > > b) The use of two different yeasts in a ferment.
                    > > c) Low wines charge strength (22% to 25%) adjusted UPWARDS to 28%
                    > for
                    > > 2nd distillation (still a low start point), presumably by the
                    > addition
                    > > of higher strength feints.
                    > >
                    > > Most of these ideas I have written about before, either in posts
                    > > (Glenmorangie Clone)or in papers such as this one...
                    > > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/
                    > >
                    > > Commercial distillers don't use high ABV washes, nor high-strength
                    > 2nd
                    > > runnings charges (although they easily could if they wished, given
                    > > today's technology and bean-counters penchant for reducing
                    > production
                    > > costs wherever they can, such as energy input).
                    > >
                    > > So, ask yourselves why. Risk of explosion? Probably. Inferior
                    > > product? Most likely. Tradition? Obviously.
                    > > Is the 2nd charge starting strength designed to hit a precise
                    > > percentage range in final product? Certainly. That was what I
                    > > outlined in the "Diluting the still charge" paper.
                    > >
                    > > I've said before & I'll say it again. I don't understand the
                    > modern
                    > > hobbyists obsession with turbo yeasts, high strength washes and
                    > final
                    > > runnings. Yes it works and is a 'quick & dirty' way of producing
                    > an
                    > > ordinary spirit. But surely it can be seen that such differences,
                    > > even small ones, will produce a spirit lacking in flavour & body,
                    > and
                    > > nothing like the $100 a bottle brands that tempted us to try our
                    > hand
                    > > in the first place?
                    > >
                    > > Oh well, to each his own. But thanks to Mal's summary, we now
                    > have
                    > > proof positive that good spirits are crafted by methods vastly
                    > > different to what many hobbyists think is intuitive. Food for
                    > thought.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Slainte!
                    > > regards Harry
                    > >
                    >
                  • Sven Pfitt
                    I believe bakers yeast can handle 10# of sugar in a 5 gallon wash (1.092 OG). This would be 12.23%abv. I suspect that it would take a good bit longer for the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 19, 2007
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                      I believe bakers yeast can handle 10# of sugar in a 5 gallon wash
                      (1.092 OG).

                      This would be 12.23%abv.

                      I suspect that it would take a good bit longer for the yeast to
                      deplete all the sugar, but it would do it. It will probably also
                      produce more byproducts since the yeast will be stressed more than in
                      a lower wash.

                      8# of sugar in a 5 gallon wash (1.074 OG) would be 9.79%abv and would
                      probabaly finish a good bit quicker and be cleaner.

                      Sven
                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "surya9375" <surya9375@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi guys
                      > Just to be of some input. Although for my first distillations I used
                      > turbo and the sort, now I just use ordinary bakers yeast. The best I
                      > get out of it is 9% mostly 8%. As for taste?? I make vodka and I put
                      > the product through a real good process. I let it mature (yeah I
                      > mature vodka :-) ) Carbon filtration and the works. So I guess
                      even
                      > if there was an off taste I wouldn't know.
                      >
                      > But the point is that with bakers yeast I have never got more than
                      9%
                      > in the mash.
                      >
                      > Regards
                      > Surya
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthony547357"
                      > <Anthony.Athawes@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > -This seems to raise an interseting point on using Tubo yeast.
                      Turbo
                      > > appears to give around 18% wash whereas ordinary dried yeast
                      gives
                      > > perhaps 12 or 13%ABV in a longer space of time.

                      ...snip....
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