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Re: Sugars

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  • Harry
    ... recovery ... recovery ... The only difference I know of between the two sugars mentioned, is the Asian product (as packaged for export) typically contains
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 6, 2007
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "fermented1941" <fjandtw@...> wrote:
      >
      > Can anyone tell me why when I distill alcohol from Aust. made sugar
      > (CSR) my temperature reading on my Nixon Stone Still is between 78.4
      > and 78.6, but if I used imported sugar (Simply from Malaysia) of the
      > same grade, the distilling temp. is 77.4 to 77.8. The rate of
      recovery
      > is the same at approx. 1 Litre per hour, and the quantity of
      recovery
      > is the same at 4 to 4.25 L before tails. The quality of the finished
      > product is the same.
      >



      The only difference I know of between the two sugars mentioned, is the
      Asian product (as packaged for export) typically contains a small
      percentage of corn-flour as a desiccant (absorbs moisture, keeps the
      sugar dry). The percentage is small enough that you wouldn't notice a
      drop in yield with small batches. It would only be noticeable in
      ferments > 1 tonne.

      Whether this would have a bearing on the distilling temp is
      debatable. That particular temp indicates an increase in Ethyl
      Acetate, an ester formed from a reaction of acetic acid with ethanol
      (nail polish remover is the typical smell, aka 'heads'). This
      reaction is naturally reversible, it breaks down to ethanol and acid.

      I don't think it's anything to be overly concerned about.


      Slainte!
      regards Harry
    • Robert N
      Hi all, over the years I have tried many ways of using carbon and non use of carbon in my vodka. Currently I find I want to use carbon as the town water adds a
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 6, 2007

        Hi all, over the years I have tried many ways of using carbon and non use of carbon in my vodka. Currently I find I want to use carbon as the town water adds a flavour I want to remove and carbon does the trick nicely. I have built several contraptions for this purpose but they all seem to have the same Achilles heal, namely the process in which to separate the carbon from the vodka. I usually find that no matter what my design is, the carbon either compacts to an extent that vodka flow is stopped or it blocks up the filter medium requiring a change of filter. My designs to date have been fiddly to achieve this or waste a significant amount of vodka and carbon. Currently I am trialling the 5 litre demijohn with carbon in it; however I only have a smallish funnel and adding a cup full of vodka/carbon to the funnel with a coffee filter in it is time consuming to say the least.

         

        To this end I am looking for an elegant streamlined way of achieving this de-carboning process and am thinking of various options to achieve nirvana. Given that this happens in the shed and I work 6 days a week requires the process to be safe, streamlined and efficient. The options as I see them are;

                    1          buying a 5 litre capacity funnel if one exists using cotton wool

                    2          building a funnel out of 100mm ss pipe to take 5 litres at a time. However the height of this pipe deters me.

                    3          give up work?

        Any help with this matter would be appreciated.

         

        Yours in Spirit

         

        Robert

      • stevolate
        Hi Robert I am an advocate for carbon, even though I distil twice both times collecting at 95.5%. I place at least 1 inch of carbon in 5-litre demijohn and
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 6, 2007
          Hi Robert
          I am an advocate for carbon, even though I distil twice both times
          collecting at 95.5%.
          I place at least 1 inch of carbon in 5-litre demijohn and store until
          ready to flavour. I aim at pure smooth ethanol which I flavour using
          commercial flavours, as I don't like a hangover. These work fantastic
          if you start with pure ethanol. The longer you leave ethanol on carbon
          the smother it is to drink.
          When ready to filter I use 2 litre plastic lemonade bottles with the
          bottom cut out. I also sand the thread from the top of the bottle so
          it fits in the demijohn upside down.
          I use home brand perforated pure cotton 100-gram pack and tear of 2
          strips. I wet these and fold to about a 1" square, this I push in the
          neck of the plastic bottle with a butter knife blade. I slowly pore
          from the demijohn to the inverted plastic bottle leaving the carbon in
          the original demijohn along with a small amount of ethanol. This
          leaves the carbon wet until next use. It takes a number of hours to
          filter 2 litres but you can do many at once. I leave on the bench
          after tea and top up before bed. In the morning you have perfectly
          clean ethanol in as many demijohn as you use.
          Will post photos if you want.

          Happy drinking
          Stevo


          have tried many ways of using carbon and non use of
          > carbon in my vodka. Currently I find I want to use carbon as the
          town water
          > adds a flavour I want to remove and carbon does the trick nicely. I have
          > built several contraptions for this purpose but they all seem to
          have the
          > same Achilles heal, namely the process in which to separate the
          carbon from
          > the vodka. I usually find that no matter what my design is, the carbon
          > either compacts to an extent that vodka flow is stopped or it blocks
          up the
          > filter medium requiring a change of filter. My designs to date have been
          > fiddly to achieve this or waste a significant amount of vodka and
          carbon.
          > Currently I am trialling the 5 litre demijohn with carbon in it;
          however I
          > only have a smallish funnel and adding a cup full of vodka/carbon to the
          > funnel with a coffee filter in it is time consuming to say the least.
          >
          >
          >
          > To this end I am looking for an elegant streamlined way of achieving
          this
          > de-carboning process and am thinking of various options to achieve
          nirvana.
          > Given that this happens in the shed and I work 6 days a week
          requires the
          > process to be safe, streamlined and efficient. The options as I see them
          > are;
          >
          > 1 buying a 5 litre capacity funnel if one
          exists using
          > cotton wool
          >
          > 2 building a funnel out of 100mm ss pipe to take 5
          > litres at a time. However the height of this pipe deters me.
          >
          > 3 give up work?
          >
          > Any help with this matter would be appreciated.
          >
          >
          >
          > Yours in Spirit
          >
          >
          >
          > Robert
          >
        • subsonic40grain
          That is exactly what I do as well, and it works great. The gallon of ethanol is usually sitting on the carbon for ages. I have never tried any other pipe /
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 7, 2007
            That is exactly what I do as well, and it works great. The gallon of
            ethanol is usually sitting on the carbon for ages. I have never
            tried any other pipe / wetting carbon method etc. since the way
            outlined below is fine. Subsonic.

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stevolate" <stevolate@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Robert
            > I am an advocate for carbon, even though I distil twice both times
            > collecting at 95.5%.
            > I place at least 1 inch of carbon in 5-litre demijohn and store
            until
            > ready to flavour. I aim at pure smooth ethanol which I flavour using
            > commercial flavours, as I don't like a hangover. These work
            fantastic
            > if you start with pure ethanol. The longer you leave ethanol on
            carbon
            > the smother it is to drink.
            > When ready to filter I use 2 litre plastic lemonade bottles with the
            > bottom cut out. I also sand the thread from the top of the bottle so
            > it fits in the demijohn upside down.
            > I use home brand perforated pure cotton 100-gram pack and tear of 2
            > strips. I wet these and fold to about a 1" square, this I push in
            the
            > neck of the plastic bottle with a butter knife blade. I slowly pore
            > from the demijohn to the inverted plastic bottle leaving the carbon
            in
            > the original demijohn along with a small amount of ethanol. This
            > leaves the carbon wet until next use. It takes a number of hours to
            > filter 2 litres but you can do many at once. I leave on the bench
            > after tea and top up before bed. In the morning you have perfectly
            > clean ethanol in as many demijohn as you use.
            > Will post photos if you want.
            >
            > Happy drinking
            > Stevo
            >
            >
            > have tried many ways of using carbon and non use of
            > > carbon in my vodka. Currently I find I want to use carbon as the
            > town water
            > > adds a flavour I want to remove and carbon does the trick nicely.
            I have
            > > built several contraptions for this purpose but they all seem to
            > have the
            > > same Achilles heal, namely the process in which to separate the
            > carbon from
            > > the vodka. I usually find that no matter what my design is, the
            carbon
            > > either compacts to an extent that vodka flow is stopped or it
            blocks
            > up the
            > > filter medium requiring a change of filter. My designs to date
            have been
            > > fiddly to achieve this or waste a significant amount of vodka and
            > carbon.
            > > Currently I am trialling the 5 litre demijohn with carbon in it;
            > however I
            > > only have a smallish funnel and adding a cup full of vodka/carbon
            to the
            > > funnel with a coffee filter in it is time consuming to say the
            least.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To this end I am looking for an elegant streamlined way of
            achieving
            > this
            > > de-carboning process and am thinking of various options to achieve
            > nirvana.
            > > Given that this happens in the shed and I work 6 days a week
            > requires the
            > > process to be safe, streamlined and efficient. The options as I
            see them
            > > are;
            > >
            > > 1 buying a 5 litre capacity funnel if one
            > exists using
            > > cotton wool
            > >
            > > 2 building a funnel out of 100mm ss pipe to
            take 5
            > > litres at a time. However the height of this pipe deters me.
            > >
            > > 3 give up work?
            > >
            > > Any help with this matter would be appreciated.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yours in Spirit
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Robert
            > >
            >
          • Stephen Lane
            Stephen wrote: ???? If you use Contact Reactive Carbon (10g per litre) & invert it a couple of times in the first 2 days after distillation then let it settle
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 7, 2007
              Stephen wrote:
              ???? If you use Contact Reactive Carbon (10g per litre) & invert it
              a couple of times in the first 2 days after distillation then let it
              settle out for at least 10 days but the more days the merrier I
              typically leave it 4 to 6 weeks or longer (ie before I flavor it) It
              just sinks to the bottom & you syphon the product off before use no fuss
              no muss. If you tilt the Demijon/flagon to one side after those first
              couple of days the carbon moves gently to the edge of the bottom then
              you can put the syphon hose right into the bottom of the container & at
              most you loose a tablespoon of product in the damp carbon which unless
              you want to go thru the recycling the carbon process which involves lots
              of heat & smells I throw it away. The only thing not to do is drop or
              bump the container which is why I store in 2 ltr Flagons so it I stuff
              one up I can get another one while the bumped one settles out again
              (about an hour) also you need to use a small (4mm internal dia) syphon
              hose so the level change doesn't swirl around & upset the carbon it
              takes 4 to 5 min to syphon 2 litres but if you only have to wash the
              container I can cope with the time taken.

              Cheers
              Stephen
            • Andrew Bugal
              Robert, Why not try it the opposite way around? Add carbon to the amount of product you want to clean and let it set for a few days. When you are ready to add
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 7, 2007
                Robert,
                 
                Why not try it the opposite way around?
                 
                Add carbon to the amount of product you want to clean and let it set for a few days.  When you are ready to add flavouring, etc., fold up a paper towel to about 20 mm (3/4 of an inch), rip off about an inch (30 mm) and push it down the neck of the funnel.  Use another flagon or demi-john and put the funnel in the neck and pour your spirit with the carbon through the funnel.  Works great.
                 
                When done, add plain water to the carbon and shake the bottle.  The water will replace any spirit in the carbon and you can spread it out on several layers of newspaper to let it drain out.
                 
                This is my process.
                 
                Regards,
                 
                Bwyze

                Robert N <dinks_c@...> wrote:
                Hi all, over the years I have tried many ways of using carbon and non use of carbon in my vodka. Currently I find I want to use carbon as the town water adds a flavour I want to remove and carbon does the trick nicely. I have built several contraptions for this purpose but they all seem to have the same Achilles heal, namely the process in which to separate the carbon from the vodka. I usually find that no matter what my design is, the carbon either compacts to an extent that vodka flow is stopped or it blocks up the filter medium requiring a change of filter. My designs to date have been fiddly to achieve this or waste a significant amount of vodka and carbon. Currently I am trialling the 5 litre demijohn with carbon in it; however I only have a smallish funnel and adding a cup full of vodka/carbon to the funnel with a coffee filter in it is time consuming to say the least.
                To this end I am looking for an elegant streamlined way of achieving this de-carboning process and am thinking of various options to achieve nirvana. Given that this happens in the shed and I work 6 days a week requires the process to be safe, streamlined and efficient. The options as I see them are;
                            1          buying a 5 litre capacity funnel if one exists using cotton wool
                            2          building a funnel out of 100mm ss pipe to take 5 litres at a time. However the height of this pipe deters me.
                            3          give up work?
                Any help with this matter would be appreciated.
                Yours in Spirit
                Robert

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              • Murphy-Marsh, Leigh
                I dunno what the problem is? When you filter, and I take it you want to filter fast rather than slow filter through paper as it blocks up? Get a fine cotton
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 7, 2007
                  I dunno what the problem is? When you filter, and I take it you want to
                  filter fast rather than slow filter through paper as it blocks up? Get a
                  fine cotton rag (clean of course) and a coarse cotton towel (similar to
                  a fluffy nappy material) and lay them in layers in a decent sized
                  funnel. Fine paper in the bottom of the funnel, next the fine cotton
                  cloth and then the coarse cloth on top. I also lay fine 'tracks' down
                  the side of the funnel (spare fine copper mesh I have laying about)
                  which hook over the top edge of the funnel and hang down along the
                  inside of it. It keeps the fine Paper off the funnel walls and gives the
                  ethanol somewhere to go instead of just hitting the wall as soon as it's
                  through the paper. Works well for me and your cloth has an almost
                  unlimited life as you can wash it out in fresh water when you've
                  finished. You get a coupla uses out of your paper too.
                  Keep in mind the filter paper in a normal atmosphere can only filter at
                  a certain speed no matter how clean it is.
                  Leigh.


                  This message and any attached files may contain information that is confidential and/or subject of legal privilege intended only for use by the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any dissemination, copying or use of this message or attachment is strictly forbidden, as is the disclosure of the information therein. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately and delete the message.
                • bordermeister
                  Hi Robert, I have a setup that I made as the alwys filling the funnel was driving me crazy too. Here Goes: I bought two 20l food grade white plastic containers
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 7, 2007
                    Hi Robert,
                    I have a setup that I made as the alwys filling the funnel was driving
                    me crazy too. Here Goes:

                    I bought two 20l food grade white plastic containers from Bunnings for
                    $8 with lids
                    Bought a polypipe filter that you use for irrigation 13mm bore size
                    for about $3
                    I bought a polypipe sink connector with thread (that coincidentally
                    fits the above mentioned filter thread) for about $5.


                    Drill a hole to take the Polypipe sink connector in the bottom of one
                    20l pail.
                    Connect the sink connector to the tub. Unscrew the end of the filter,
                    remove the filter screen and screw it onto the thread of the sink
                    connector.
                    Here is a link to the filter I used:
                    http://www.wetearth.com.au/Product/ProductDetail.asp?lngProductID=56&lngCatID=3&lngSubCatID=9


                    Drill a hole in the lid of one container that will allow the above
                    setup to fit through.

                    If you place the lid with a hole on the untouched 20l pail you have
                    the recieving container.
                    Then place the other container on top. You now have two stacked
                    containers - All you need to do now is place 4-5 cotton balls in the
                    filter and you now have a carbon filter that can filter up to 20l of
                    product !!!

                    Just remember to decant off the carbon first so that you are only
                    filtering the carbon dust. Then fill and let it filter away on its
                    own. Come back later and you have filtered product read to go...

                    You can use as many/little cotton balls as fit/you want. More means
                    slower but cleaner.

                    I can put a photo/s somewhere if you want to see what I mean.

                    Cheers
                    Mark









                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert N" <dinks_c@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi all, over the years I have tried many ways of using carbon and
                    non use of
                    > carbon in my vodka. Currently I find I want to use carbon as the
                    town water
                    > adds a flavour I want to remove and carbon does the trick nicely. I have
                    > built several contraptions for this purpose but they all seem to
                    have the
                    > same Achilles heal, namely the process in which to separate the
                    carbon from
                    > the vodka. I usually find that no matter what my design is, the carbon
                    > either compacts to an extent that vodka flow is stopped or it blocks
                    up the
                    > filter medium requiring a change of filter. My designs to date have been
                    > fiddly to achieve this or waste a significant amount of vodka and
                    carbon.
                    > Currently I am trialling the 5 litre demijohn with carbon in it;
                    however I
                    > only have a smallish funnel and adding a cup full of vodka/carbon to the
                    > funnel with a coffee filter in it is time consuming to say the least.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To this end I am looking for an elegant streamlined way of achieving
                    this
                    > de-carboning process and am thinking of various options to achieve
                    nirvana.
                    > Given that this happens in the shed and I work 6 days a week
                    requires the
                    > process to be safe, streamlined and efficient. The options as I see them
                    > are;
                    >
                    > 1 buying a 5 litre capacity funnel if one
                    exists using
                    > cotton wool
                    >
                    > 2 building a funnel out of 100mm ss pipe to take 5
                    > litres at a time. However the height of this pipe deters me.
                    >
                    > 3 give up work?
                    >
                    > Any help with this matter would be appreciated.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yours in Spirit
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Robert
                    >
                  • surya9375
                    Hey guys. Anyidea as to how this works? Cause I can understand the product becoming smoother if the vodka is passed through the carbon. This is what I do I
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 8, 2007
                      Hey guys.
                      Anyidea as to how this works? Cause I can understand the product
                      becoming smoother if the vodka is passed "through" the carbon. This is
                      what I do I let the vodka drip slowly through the carbon.

                      But then I hear about putting carbon "in" the carbon and letting it
                      take its time. How can this actually work. cause in this way the
                      carbon isnt exactly with contact with all of the vodka, right? Wouldnt
                      passing the vodka through carbon be much more efficient???

                      Regards
                      Surya.
                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "subsonic40grain"
                      <subsonic40grain@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > That is exactly what I do as well, and it works great. The gallon of
                      > ethanol is usually sitting on the carbon for ages. I have never
                      > tried any other pipe / wetting carbon method etc. since the way
                      > outlined below is fine. Subsonic.
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stevolate" <stevolate@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Robert
                      > > I am an advocate for carbon, even though I distil twice both times
                      > > collecting at 95.5%.
                      > > I place at least 1 inch of carbon in 5-litre demijohn and store
                      > until
                      > > ready to flavour. I aim at pure smooth ethanol which I flavour using
                      > > commercial flavours, as I don't like a hangover. These work
                      > fantastic
                      > > if you start with pure ethanol. The longer you leave ethanol on
                      > carbon
                      > > the smother it is to drink.
                      > > When ready to filter I use 2 litre plastic lemonade bottles with the
                      > > bottom cut out. I also sand the thread from the top of the bottle so
                      > > it fits in the demijohn upside down.
                      > > I use home brand perforated pure cotton 100-gram pack and tear of 2
                      > > strips. I wet these and fold to about a 1" square, this I push in
                      > the
                      > > neck of the plastic bottle with a butter knife blade. I slowly pore
                      > > from the demijohn to the inverted plastic bottle leaving the carbon
                      > in
                      > > the original demijohn along with a small amount of ethanol. This
                      > > leaves the carbon wet until next use. It takes a number of hours to
                      > > filter 2 litres but you can do many at once. I leave on the bench
                      > > after tea and top up before bed. In the morning you have perfectly
                      > > clean ethanol in as many demijohn as you use.
                      > > Will post photos if you want.
                      > >
                      > > Happy drinking
                      > > Stevo
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > have tried many ways of using carbon and non use of
                      > > > carbon in my vodka. Currently I find I want to use carbon as the
                      > > town water
                      > > > adds a flavour I want to remove and carbon does the trick nicely.
                      > I have
                      > > > built several contraptions for this purpose but they all seem to
                      > > have the
                      > > > same Achilles heal, namely the process in which to separate the
                      > > carbon from
                      > > > the vodka. I usually find that no matter what my design is, the
                      > carbon
                      > > > either compacts to an extent that vodka flow is stopped or it
                      > blocks
                      > > up the
                      > > > filter medium requiring a change of filter. My designs to date
                      > have been
                      > > > fiddly to achieve this or waste a significant amount of vodka and
                      > > carbon.
                      > > > Currently I am trialling the 5 litre demijohn with carbon in it;
                      > > however I
                      > > > only have a smallish funnel and adding a cup full of vodka/carbon
                      > to the
                      > > > funnel with a coffee filter in it is time consuming to say the
                      > least.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > To this end I am looking for an elegant streamlined way of
                      > achieving
                      > > this
                      > > > de-carboning process and am thinking of various options to achieve
                      > > nirvana.
                      > > > Given that this happens in the shed and I work 6 days a week
                      > > requires the
                      > > > process to be safe, streamlined and efficient. The options as I
                      > see them
                      > > > are;
                      > > >
                      > > > 1 buying a 5 litre capacity funnel if one
                      > > exists using
                      > > > cotton wool
                      > > >
                      > > > 2 building a funnel out of 100mm ss pipe to
                      > take 5
                      > > > litres at a time. However the height of this pipe deters me.
                      > > >
                      > > > 3 give up work?
                      > > >
                      > > > Any help with this matter would be appreciated.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Yours in Spirit
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Robert
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Harry
                      ... This is ... Wouldnt ... http://www.alcoholpurification.com/default.html Slainte! regards Harry
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 8, 2007
                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "surya9375" <surya9375@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hey guys.
                        > Anyidea as to how this works? Cause I can understand the product
                        > becoming smoother if the vodka is passed "through" the carbon.
                        This is
                        > what I do I let the vodka drip slowly through the carbon.
                        >
                        > But then I hear about putting carbon "in" the carbon and letting it
                        > take its time. How can this actually work. cause in this way the
                        > carbon isnt exactly with contact with all of the vodka, right?
                        Wouldnt
                        > passing the vodka through carbon be much more efficient???
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > Surya.



                        http://www.alcoholpurification.com/default.html


                        Slainte!
                        regards Harry
                      • Robert N
                        Thankyou all for your replies, they are quite helpful and I will give all these solutions considered thought as soon as I get some free time. Mark how do you
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 9, 2007

                          Thankyou all for your replies, they are quite helpful and I will give all these solutions considered thought as soon as I get some free time.

                           

                          Mark how do you decant the carbon off before filtering?

                           

                          I have thought about making a decanting wand out of copper pipe to stick into the demijohn and siphon from one to the other leaving some vodka and carbon in the bottom. This sediment can be filtered the slow way. The decanted vodka could be placed into the bulk filtration equipment.

                           

                          The copper wand would be ½” pipe with the end closed off (crimped) and about a 10 to 20mm above the bottom of the pipe cross drill some holes. These holes I would imagine I would start off small and trial the take off rate to see if it disturbs the sediment in the demijohn, increasing the size of the hole until I find either the take off rate is acceptable or it stirs up sediment. If it stirs up sediment I would then make another wand with the next smallest holes. Or cut at the holes and crimp. Can’t waste copper at the price it is these days.

                           

                          Yours in Spirit

                           

                          Robert


                          Hi Robert,
                          I have a setup that I made as the alwys filling the funnel was driving
                          me crazy too. Here Goes:

                          I bought two 20l food grade white plastic containers from Bunnings for
                          $8 with lids
                          Bought a polypipe filter that you use for irrigation 13mm bore size
                          for about $3
                          I bought a polypipe sink connector with thread (that coincidentally
                          fits the above mentioned filter thread) for about $5.

                          Drill a hole to take the Polypipe sink connector in the bottom of one
                          20l pail.
                          Connect the sink connector to the tub. Unscrew the end of the filter,
                          remove the filter screen and screw it onto the thread of the sink
                          connector.
                          Here is a link to the filter I used:
                          http://www.wetearth .com.au/Product/ ProductDetail. asp?lngProductID =56&lngCatID= 3&lngSubCatID= 9

                          Drill a hole in the lid of one container that will allow the above
                          setup to fit through.

                          If you place the lid with a hole on the untouched 20l pail you have
                          the recieving container.
                          Then place the other container on top. You now have two stacked
                          containers - All you need to do now is place 4-5 cotton balls in the
                          filter and you now have a carbon filter that can filter up to 20l of
                          product !!!

                          Just remember to decant off the carbon first so that you are only
                          filtering the carbon dust. Then fill and let it filter away on its
                          own. Come back later and you have filtered product read to go...

                          You can use as many/little cotton balls as fit/you want. More means
                          slower but cleaner.

                          I can put a photo/s somewhere if you want to see what I mean.

                          Cheers
                          Mark

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "Robert N" <dinks_c@... > wrote:

                          >
                          > Hi all, over the years I have tried many ways of using carbon and
                          non use of
                          > carbon in my vodka. Currently I find I want to use carbon as the
                          town water
                          > adds a flavour I want to remove and carbon does the trick nicely. I have
                          > built several contraptions for this purpose but they all seem to
                          have the
                          > same Achilles heal, namely the process in which to separate the
                          carbon from
                          > the vodka. I usually find that no matter what my design is, the carbon
                          > either compacts to an extent that vodka flow is stopped or it blocks
                          up the
                          > filter medium requiring a change of filter. My designs to date have been
                          > fiddly to achieve this or waste a significant amount of vodka and
                          carbon.
                          > Currently I am trialling the 5 litre demijohn with carbon in it;
                          however I
                          > only have a smallish funnel and adding a cup full of vodka/carbon to the
                          > funnel with a coffee filter in it is time consuming to say the least.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To this end I am looking for an elegant streamlined way of achieving
                          this
                          > de-carboning process and am thinking of various options to achieve
                          nirvana.
                          > Given that this happens in the shed and I work 6 days a week
                          requires the
                          > process to be safe, streamlined and efficient. The options as I see them
                          > are;
                          >
                          > 1 buying a 5 litre capacity funnel if one
                          exists using
                          > cotton wool
                          >
                          > 2 building a funnel out of 100mm ss pipe to take 5
                          > litres at a time. However the height of this pipe deters me.
                          >
                          > 3 give up work?
                          >
                          > Any help with this matter would be appreciated.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yours in Spirit
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Robert

                        • bordermeister
                          Hi Robert, I actually have a coffee filter that I just pour the contents of the demijohn through. this allows the liquid to flow through but catches all of the
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 10, 2007
                            Hi Robert,
                            I actually have a coffee filter that I just pour the contents of the
                            demijohn through. this allows the liquid to flow through but catches
                            all of the granules.
                            the link of what I have is below. I bought it at a kitchen shop
                            similar to House (actually for coffee but it has a new use now).

                            http://baldmountaincoffee.com/page/BMCC/PROD/Swissgold_Coffee_Filters_Single/00002405

                            takes as long to filter as it does to pour. It allows full flow
                            through - I only use the gold part of the filter not the black inner
                            (in the photo).

                            Cheers
                            Mark



                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert N" <dinks_c@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Thankyou all for your replies, they are quite helpful and I will
                            give all
                            > these solutions considered thought as soon as I get some free time.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Mark how do you decant the carbon off before filtering?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            <snip>
                          • surya9375
                            Hi Harry I did read this link And this extract makes a lot of sense Activated carbon works when ordinary physical filtering (using a sieve, filter paper and
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 11, 2007
                              Hi Harry
                              I did read this link And this extract makes a lot of sense

                              "Activated carbon works when ordinary physical filtering (using a
                              sieve, filter paper and filter pads, and sand) cannot separate a
                              particular substance. Activated carbon works by absorbing impurities
                              into its pores. Absorption happens through cooperation of the carbon's
                              enormous adsorptive surface, including its weak electrostatic charges
                              (known as Van der Waals forces, named after the scientist who studied
                              them), together with the distribution of pore sizes (micro-, meso-,
                              and macro pores), and the construction of the pores surfaces (called
                              cohesion forces). The carbon pores become saturated with impurities,
                              attaching even to the outside of the carbon."

                              But dont you think it would be MUCH more effective if the liquid where
                              to be passed THROUGH the carbon instead of letting it BE in the carboy??

                              Regards
                              Surya.

                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "surya9375" <surya9375@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hey guys.
                              > > Anyidea as to how this works? Cause I can understand the product
                              > > becoming smoother if the vodka is passed "through" the carbon.
                              > This is
                              > > what I do I let the vodka drip slowly through the carbon.
                              > >
                              > > But then I hear about putting carbon "in" the carbon and letting it
                              > > take its time. How can this actually work. cause in this way the
                              > > carbon isnt exactly with contact with all of the vodka, right?
                              > Wouldnt
                              > > passing the vodka through carbon be much more efficient???
                              > >
                              > > Regards
                              > > Surya.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > http://www.alcoholpurification.com/default.html
                              >
                              >
                              > Slainte!
                              > regards Harry
                              >
                            • Harry
                              ... snip ... where ... carboy?? ... No. The longer the contact, the more the carbon works. Passing through, it has only several minutes contact. In situ,
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 11, 2007
                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "surya9375" <surya9375@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Harry
                                > I did read this link And this extract makes a lot of sense
                                snip>
                                >
                                > But dont you think it would be MUCH more effective if the liquid
                                where
                                > to be passed THROUGH the carbon instead of letting it BE in the
                                carboy??
                                >
                                > Regards
                                > Surya.



                                No. The longer the contact, the more the carbon works. Passing
                                through, it has only several minutes contact. In situ, it has much
                                more time to do its thing. Brownian motion provides the agitation
                                (look it up).


                                Slainte!
                                regards Harry
                              • bbornais
                                I am a believer in running a column packed with carbon. I am also a believer in letting the carbon sit in the carboy for at least a couple of days. Once the
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 14, 2007
                                  I am a believer in running a column packed with carbon. I am also a
                                  believer in letting the carbon sit in the carboy for at least a
                                  couple of days.

                                  Once the residual smells/tastes are removed from the carboy alc(50-60%
                                  ABV), then you must filter off the loose carbon.

                                  To do this I pack a 2 inch glass cylinder about five feet long with
                                  carbon.

                                  1) Take copper mesh and about four coffee filters. Coffee filters on
                                  the end of the 2" tube. Mesh over the filters.

                                  2) tape the mesh to the column about 6 inches up. This ensures that
                                  no alcohol comes in contact with the tape. The mesh holds the coffee
                                  filters firmly.

                                  3) Pour in your boiled carbon to desired height.

                                  4) Run Hot water through until it runs out clear.

                                  5) Add alcohol. When liquid starts coming out cool with alc taste,
                                  start collecting.

                                  6) Keep column filled so that it never runs dry until all is filtered.

                                  Clean, taste free. Done quickly in a couple of hours on a Saturday.
                                  No clogging. No fuss.
                                • bbornais
                                  It may be that you are confusing a change in one variable with a change in another. What I am talking about is the barometric pressure. This was certainly not
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 14, 2007
                                    It may be that you are confusing a change in one variable with a
                                    change in another.

                                    What I am talking about is the barometric pressure. This was
                                    certainly not the same on the two different days when you tried two
                                    different sugars.

                                    Barometric pressue plays a large role in the variation of boiling
                                    point due to the fact that liquids only boil when they reach
                                    barometric pressure.

                                    Fact is, ethyl alcohol is the same, whether it was made with potatoes
                                    or two kinds of sugar.

                                    If you are drawing at the same rate, the packing is the same, and the
                                    energy going into the boiler is the same, then there should be very
                                    neglibile difference in your HETP and column seperating capacity.

                                    Hope this helps,

                                    Bryan.
                                  • donald holcombe
                                    Liquids only boil when they reach barometric pressure. ? I beleive further explanation is in order. Barometric pressure actually has negligable effect on
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jan 14, 2007
                                      Liquids only boil when they reach barometric pressure. ?  I beleive further explanation is in order. Barometric pressure actually has negligable effect on boiling points. Seems Ive heard that the trip to the top of the Empire State building has more pressure change than the weather.  Altitude changes temps about 3F per 1000 feet I think thats close.ABV of a solution  has a large effect on the boiling points.

                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                      From: bbornais <bbornais@...>
                                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 2:05:26 PM
                                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Sugars

                                      It may be that you are confusing a change in one variable with a
                                      change in another.

                                      What I am talking about is the barometric pressure. This was
                                      certainly not the same on the two different days when you tried two
                                      different sugars.

                                      Barometric pressue plays a large role in the variation of boiling
                                      point due to the fact that liquids only boil when they reach
                                      barometric pressure.

                                      Fact is, ethyl alcohol is the same, whether it was made with potatoes
                                      or two kinds of sugar.

                                      If you are drawing at the same rate, the packing is the same, and the
                                      energy going into the boiler is the same, then there should be very
                                      neglibile difference in your HETP and column seperating capacity.

                                      Hope this helps,

                                      Bryan.




                                      Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
                                    • surya9375
                                      most things are just not what it seem sto be, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_motion Now I got to try this out. for a liter of vodka would a table spoon
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jan 15, 2007
                                        most things are just not what it seem sto be,

                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_motion

                                        Now I got to try this out. for a liter of vodka would a table spoon of
                                        Carbon be good enough? And if thats ok. then how long time do I keep
                                        it, a week? I think Thats what I read!

                                        Regards
                                        Surya.


                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "surya9375" <surya9375@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Hi Harry
                                        > > I did read this link And this extract makes a lot of sense
                                        > snip>
                                        > >
                                        > > But dont you think it would be MUCH more effective if the liquid
                                        > where
                                        > > to be passed THROUGH the carbon instead of letting it BE in the
                                        > carboy??
                                        > >
                                        > > Regards
                                        > > Surya.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > No. The longer the contact, the more the carbon works. Passing
                                        > through, it has only several minutes contact. In situ, it has much
                                        > more time to do its thing. Brownian motion provides the agitation
                                        > (look it up).
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Slainte!
                                        > regards Harry
                                        >
                                      • Trid
                                        ... Sounds great in theory. However, questions arise regarding stratification, osmosis, convection currents (though unlikely in 1 liter) and other factors
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jan 15, 2007
                                          --- surya9375 <surya9375@...> wrote:

                                          > most things are just not what it seem sto be,
                                          >
                                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_motion
                                          >
                                          > Now I got to try this out. for a liter of vodka would a table spoon of
                                          > Carbon be good enough? And if thats ok. then how long time do I keep
                                          > it, a week? I think Thats what I read!

                                          Sounds great in theory. However, questions arise regarding stratification,
                                          osmosis, convection currents (though unlikely in 1 liter) and other factors
                                          that exist in conjunction with this.

                                          I'd say that if 1 table spoon has the adsorption capacity for your liter, they
                                          you'd still be well off to shake it daily.

                                          As for myself, I'm more inclined to run the spirit through a carbon bed.

                                          Trid
                                          -nifty concept, though
                                        • Harry
                                          ... stratification, ... other factors ... liter, they ... carbon bed. ... All those forces come into play. That s how it works in a barrel. They don t pick
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jan 15, 2007
                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:

                                            >
                                            > Sounds great in theory. However, questions arise regarding
                                            stratification,
                                            > osmosis, convection currents (though unlikely in 1 liter) and
                                            other factors
                                            > that exist in conjunction with this.
                                            >
                                            > I'd say that if 1 table spoon has the adsorption capacity for your
                                            liter, they
                                            > you'd still be well off to shake it daily.
                                            >
                                            > As for myself, I'm more inclined to run the spirit through a
                                            carbon bed.
                                            >
                                            > Trid
                                            > -nifty concept, though
                                            >



                                            All those forces come into play. That's how it works in a barrel.
                                            They don't pick them fellers up & shake 'em every other day. :)

                                            However, our small containers can, and should be, shaken every so
                                            often. It will speed up the process.


                                            Slainte!
                                            regards Harry
                                          • Stephen Lane
                                            Stephen wrote: As I have said previously & I ve been doing this since couple of years now using a CR grade carbon (Contact Reactive) at 10 grams per litre of
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jan 16, 2007
                                              Stephen wrote:
                                              As I have said previously & I've been doing this since couple of
                                              years now using a CR grade carbon (Contact Reactive) at 10 grams per
                                              litre of 85% to 92% product wait a min of 10 days with a shake or 2 in
                                              the 1st couple of days or leave as long as takes to get round to using
                                              the product (longer the better but it doesn't really matter) & syphon
                                              off prior to use (tipping carbon to edge of bottom with the last shake
                                              up gives an empty spot to put a thin dia hose for the siphon so the
                                              swirling effect doesn't cause carbon pick up during the siphoning).
                                              Least amount of fuss I've ever performed & I've tried Z filters & the
                                              bucket & filter bed method but its all so hard compared to the CR method.

                                              Regards
                                              Stephen
                                            • surya9375
                                              I knew I ve seen this before :-) http://homedistiller.org/polish.htm Now here is a contradiction. At times I would like to steep my vodka in fruits and stuff.
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jan 17, 2007
                                                I knew I've seen this before :-)

                                                http://homedistiller.org/polish.htm

                                                Now here is a contradiction.

                                                At times I would like to steep my vodka in fruits and stuff. Later
                                                (after a month or so) I distill it. Now here is the problem.


                                                1, I'm not supposed to polish it before diluting it.
                                                2, I want to steep the fruits in 95 to 95+ ethanol.
                                                3, I cannot polish it after flavoring it.

                                                At first I'm thinking I can be satisfied with whatever I can get out
                                                of filtering the ethanol at 95%. Then I see this.

                                                <Snip, from the above link under the heading "Dilute the Alcohol">
                                                high % alcohol could act as an aggressor to the carbon and cause
                                                "nasties" to be leached out the wrong way, eg carbon to alcohol
                                                <Snip>

                                                What do you do?

                                                - I would like to filter the product before steeping fruits in it.
                                                - I would like to steep the fruits in 95+%

                                                Regards
                                                Surya.

                                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > > Sounds great in theory. However, questions arise regarding
                                                > stratification,
                                                > > osmosis, convection currents (though unlikely in 1 liter) and
                                                > other factors
                                                > > that exist in conjunction with this.
                                                > >
                                                > > I'd say that if 1 table spoon has the adsorption capacity for your
                                                > liter, they
                                                > > you'd still be well off to shake it daily.
                                                > >
                                                > > As for myself, I'm more inclined to run the spirit through a
                                                > carbon bed.
                                                > >
                                                > > Trid
                                                > > -nifty concept, though
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > All those forces come into play. That's how it works in a barrel.
                                                > They don't pick them fellers up & shake 'em every other day. :)
                                                >
                                                > However, our small containers can, and should be, shaken every so
                                                > often. It will speed up the process.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Slainte!
                                                > regards Harry
                                                >
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