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Does anyone have the chemical data on the Bi-carb treatment?

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  • Great White North
    Good Morning everyone. I have a friend who owns a small distillery in my home state here in the US. All licensed by both the State and the Feds by the way... I
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 31, 2006
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      Good Morning everyone.

      I have a friend who owns a small distillery in my home state here in the US.
      All licensed by both the State and the Feds by the way...

      I have been telling him about the bi-carb treatment used to help remove the
      Ethyl Acetate from his first round distillations and he is really interested
      in just how this process works. He is currently using a lot of carbon to
      clean up his output and I think this process could be used to save him a lot
      of money.

      He would like to read about what chemical reaction takes place with the
      bi-carb and I have been unable to locate any documentation on this. I have
      looked on the Homedistiller web pages...

      I know folks will say to just have him try a batch and see but with all the
      rules and regs from both the state and federal government he is unwilling to
      experiment with that. I don't blame him, the paperwork would kill him if he
      had to write off a batch...

      Would someone on the group be able to point me to a source that would
      explain the chemistry that is taking place??

      Thanks

      GWN
    • Harry
      ... in the US. ... remove the ... interested ... carbon to ... him a lot ... with the ... this. I have ... with all the ... unwilling to ... him if he ...
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 31, 2006
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Great White North"
        <GrtWhiteNorth56@...> wrote:
        >
        > Good Morning everyone.
        >
        > I have a friend who owns a small distillery in my home state here
        in the US.
        > All licensed by both the State and the Feds by the way...
        >
        > I have been telling him about the bi-carb treatment used to help
        remove the
        > Ethyl Acetate from his first round distillations and he is really
        interested
        > in just how this process works. He is currently using a lot of
        carbon to
        > clean up his output and I think this process could be used to save
        him a lot
        > of money.
        >
        > He would like to read about what chemical reaction takes place
        with the
        > bi-carb and I have been unable to locate any documentation on
        this. I have
        > looked on the Homedistiller web pages...
        >
        > I know folks will say to just have him try a batch and see but
        with all the
        > rules and regs from both the state and federal government he is
        unwilling to
        > experiment with that. I don't blame him, the paperwork would kill
        him if he
        > had to write off a batch...
        >
        > Would someone on the group be able to point me to a source that
        would
        > explain the chemistry that is taking place??
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > GWN
        >


        Rob Thomas would be our resident bicarb resource. Read this msg,
        then email him...
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/37479

        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • Robert Thomas
        Yikes, I m a resource! (btw Harry: Happy New Year and all the very best to you and yours). GWN: I think my thinking out loud rationale for bicarb is in the
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 2, 2007
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          Yikes,
          I'm a resource! (btw Harry: Happy New Year and all the very best to you
          and yours).
          GWN: I think my "thinking out loud" rationale for bicarb is in the
          homedistillers site (I hope so, as I have lost it here).
          It could easily be very beneficial for your friend the "legal
          distiller", providing he is making neutral alcohol - which I guess he
          is because he is using carbon treatment.

          I have a pretty exclusive spam filter here, but do send me an email if
          you can't find answers in the archives (I suggest searching whosbrewing
          and bicarb).
          Cheers
          Rob.

          --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Great White North"
          > <GrtWhiteNorth56@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Good Morning everyone.
          > >
          > > I have a friend who owns a small distillery in my home state here
          > in the US.
          > > All licensed by both the State and the Feds by the way...
          > >
          > > I have been telling him about the bi-carb treatment used to help
          > remove the
          > > Ethyl Acetate from his first round distillations and he is really
          > interested
          > > in just how this process works. He is currently using a lot of
          > carbon to
          > > clean up his output and I think this process could be used to save
          > him a lot
          > > of money.
          > >
          > > He would like to read about what chemical reaction takes place
          > with the
          > > bi-carb and I have been unable to locate any documentation on
          > this. I have
          > > looked on the Homedistiller web pages...
          > >
          > > I know folks will say to just have him try a batch and see but
          > with all the
          > > rules and regs from both the state and federal government he is
          > unwilling to
          > > experiment with that. I don't blame him, the paperwork would kill
          > him if he
          > > had to write off a batch...
          > >
          > > Would someone on the group be able to point me to a source that
          > would
          > > explain the chemistry that is taking place??
          > >
          > > Thanks
          > >
          > > GWN
          > >
          >
          >
          > Rob Thomas would be our resident bicarb resource. Read this msg,
          > then email him...
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/37479
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          >
          >


          Cheers,
          Rob.

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        • surya9375
          Hey Everyone I was going homedistillerand came across this http://homedistiller.org/photos-reflux.htm In this page if you look at the last pic The Ultra Pure
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 4, 2007
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            Hey Everyone
            I was going homedistillerand came across this
            http://homedistiller.org/photos-reflux.htm

            In this page if you look at the last pic "The Ultra Pure Still" it is
            said to be 25cm tall and produces 95%.

            I also saw that its of 5liter capacity and they say its capable of
            producing 2 bottles, but do not mention how big (or small) those
            bottles are. :-) I mean I can take that bit of marketing gimic. but
            can anyone tell me how these short stills produce such high %???

            This still is just an example. There are many more short stills that
            produce high %. Any ideas??? thoughts, know hows. I'm dying of curiosity.

            Regards
            Surya.
          • abbababbaccc
            I d be very sceptical about those promises they make. If you read it carefully and think it over things are not as good as they seem. Amphora society was the
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 4, 2007
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              I'd be very sceptical about those promises they make. If you read it
              carefully and think it over things are not as good as they seem.

              Amphora society was the first to manufacture a short still after years
              of research, they settled for 30cm packed height and relatively slow
              running to get out 95.6% neutral alcohol.

              Somehow I doubt that these ultra pure guys have invented something
              better. The still has no product condenser so it must be LM. The valve
              looks to be ball valve, not something suited for finetuning a LM type
              distillation apparatus. The bottle size is not mentioned. Now typical
              mash of 5 liters contains ~0.75 liters alcohol. If we assume typical
              cuts of 20-60-20 (in fact quite unlikely due to speed and column
              height) we'll get 0.45 liters of neutral alcohol. Out of that we get a
              little over one liter at 0.40% so those bottles are 0.5 liters at
              best. I also very much doubt that one could process that 5 liters of
              mash in one hour while equilibrating the still and bleeding off heads
              slowly. Also 2.2 kW and 2" column that it seems to have are not a good
              match for purity.

              So, IMO it's a marketing ploy. Personally I wouldn't buy something
              with such suspicious advert.

              Cheers, Riku

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "surya9375" <surya9375@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey Everyone
              > I was going homedistillerand came across this
              > http://homedistiller.org/photos-reflux.htm
              >
              > In this page if you look at the last pic "The Ultra Pure Still" it is
              > said to be 25cm tall and produces 95%.
              >
              > I also saw that its of 5liter capacity and they say its capable of
              > producing 2 bottles, but do not mention how big (or small) those
              > bottles are. :-) I mean I can take that bit of marketing gimic. but
              > can anyone tell me how these short stills produce such high %???
              >
              > This still is just an example. There are many more short stills that
              > produce high %. Any ideas??? thoughts, know hows. I'm dying of
              curiosity.
              >
              > Regards
              > Surya.
              >
            • Link D'Antoni
              Surya, One of my stills is a 24 H x 2 D stainless column that I got from Mi-High. I used to use it from reflux. The drawback is that it took 10 - 12 hrs
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 4, 2007
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                Surya,

                One of my stills is a 24"H x 2"D stainless column
                that I got from Mi-High. I used to use it from
                reflux. The drawback is that it took 10 - 12 hrs
                (including heat up) to run 5 gallons (19 ltrs). I did
                get 96% but it took allll daaaaay loooong... it was
                drip...drip...drip...to get the purity. (5-8 ml/minute
                Oh, I used SS scrubbers packing.

                Link

                --- surya9375 <surya9375@...> wrote:

                > Hey Everyone
                > I was going homedistillerand came across this
                > http://homedistiller.org/photos-reflux.htm
                >
                > In this page if you look at the last pic "The Ultra
                > Pure Still" it is
                > said to be 25cm tall and produces 95%.
                >
                > I also saw that its of 5liter capacity and they say
                > its capable of
                > producing 2 bottles, but do not mention how big (or
                > small) those
                > bottles are. :-) I mean I can take that bit of
                > marketing gimic. but
                > can anyone tell me how these short stills produce
                > such high %???
                >
                > This still is just an example. There are many more
                > short stills that
                > produce high %. Any ideas??? thoughts, know hows.
                > I'm dying of curiosity.
                >
                > Regards
                > Surya.
                >
                >


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              • Sven Pfitt
                Great marketing. If he were running an 18% wash and actually got to use 4.5L of the capacity for liquid it would yield 0.81L of alcohol. So you could get two
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 4, 2007
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                  Great marketing.

                  If he were running an 18% wash and actually got to use 4.5L of the
                  capacity for liquid it would yield 0.81L of alcohol. So you could get
                  two 1L bottles at 41% abv.

                  If it were 100% efficient.

                  Which it is not because those are the theoretical limits.

                  I'm not going to do the math on heat up time, foreshots, tails, etc
                  because they would show the same claims of ideal working conditions.

                  It won't work the way it is claimed. Marketing license.

                  Just remember, if it sounds too good to be true, its not.

                  Sven
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "surya9375" <surya9375@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hey Everyone
                  > I was going homedistillerand came across this
                  > http://homedistiller.org/photos-reflux.htm
                  >
                  > In this page if you look at the last pic "The Ultra Pure Still" it
                  is
                  > said to be 25cm tall and produces 95%.
                  >
                  > I also saw that its of 5liter capacity and they say its capable of
                  > producing 2 bottles, but do not mention how big (or small) those
                  > bottles are. :-) I mean I can take that bit of marketing gimic. but
                  > can anyone tell me how these short stills produce such high %???
                  >
                  > This still is just an example. There are many more short stills that
                  > produce high %. Any ideas??? thoughts, know hows. I'm dying of
                  curiosity.
                  >
                  > Regards
                  > Surya.
                  >
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