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Re: Vapour capers

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  • burrows206
    Hi Link, You wrote:- What the heck is compaction ? Well I ve heard of it, I just got back from visiting my 86 year old mother-in-law, in hospital. And the
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 5, 2006
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      Hi Link,
      You wrote:-
      "What the heck is 'compaction'?
      Well I've heard of it, I just got back from visiting my 86 year old
      mother-in-law, in hospital. And the nurse was talking about when
      they let her out that it was important she take her laxative to
      avoid 'compaction'.
      When I dilute my booze I surely want to avoid compaction of any
      kind no matter what the specific gravity of my compactions are,
      before I pee and dilute regardless if I have any compactions or not,
      which isn't anybody's business but my own anyway.
      I think maybe I have the wrong end of this brown compacted stick
      here so I'll quit before I fall right in it.
      So "What the heck is 'compaction'???
      Geoff

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Link D'Antoni <link2d@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Actually the differences are a result of calculating
      > a weight vs a volume. Specific Gravity/density/proof
      > are based on the weight relationship of water. You
      > were calculating based on the volume. Herein lies the
      > rub.
      >
      > If memory serves (a big 'IF') Ethyl Alcohol sp gr is
      > .7900 sp gr. Of course, H2O is 1.0000 sp gr.
      >
      > What the heck is 'compaction'?
      >
      > Link
      >
      >
      > --- scotwisky <scotwisky@...> wrote:
      >
      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rodmacd2000"
      > > <rmacdoug@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Yes but remember Tony warns that his calculation
      > > ignores the effect of
      > > > "compaction". How does one correct for this?
      > > >
      > >
      > > I've asked several people and all agreed that in
      > > quantities we are
      > > dealing with inaccuracies in measuring volumes will
      > > make more
      > > difference than compaction.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
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      >
    • donald holcombe
      When water and alcohol, both distilled , are combined the molecules fit together in a way that results in less volume that the sum of the original two volumes.
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 5, 2006
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        When water and alcohol, both distilled , are combined the molecules fit together in a way that results in less volume that the sum of the original two volumes.  IE  50 parts water, 50 parts alcohol, combined equal 95 parts solution by volume.  Or something like that.

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: burrows206 <geoff@...>
        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2006 7:27:23 PM
        Subject: [Distillers] Re: Vapour capers


        Hi Link,
        You wrote:-
        "What the heck is 'compaction' ?
        Well I've heard of it, I just got back from visiting my 86 year old
        mother-in-law, in hospital. And the nurse was talking about when
        they let her out that it was important she take her laxative to
        avoid 'compaction' .
        When I dilute my booze I surely want to avoid compaction of any
        kind no matter what the specific gravity of my compactions are,
        before I pee and dilute regardless if I have any compactions or not,
        which isn't anybody's business but my own anyway.
        I think maybe I have the wrong end of this brown compacted stick
        here so I'll quit before I fall right in it.
        So "What the heck is 'compaction' ???
        Geoff

        --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, Link D'Antoni <link2d@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Actually the differences are a result of calculating
        > a weight vs a volume. Specific Gravity/density/ proof
        > are based on the weight relationship of water. You
        > were calculating based on the volume. Herein lies the
        > rub.
        >
        > If memory serves (a big 'IF') Ethyl Alcohol sp gr is
        > .7900 sp gr. Of course, H2O is 1.0000 sp gr.
        >
        > What the heck is 'compaction' ?
        >
        > Link
        >
        >
        > --- scotwisky <scotwisky@. ..> wrote:
        >
        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "rodmacd2000"
        > > <rmacdoug@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Yes but remember Tony warns that his calculation
        > > ignores the effect of
        > > > "compaction" . How does one correct for this?
        > > >
        > >
        > > I've asked several people and all agreed that in
        > > quantities we are
        > > dealing with inaccuracies in measuring volumes will
        > > make more
        > > difference than compaction.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
        ____________ __
        > Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone
        call rates
        > (http://voice. yahoo.com)
        >



      • Link D'Antoni
        Sorry.... Do you mean constipation ? This might be a cultural verbism issue. I m only trying to get clarification here. I m trying to learn something I
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 5, 2006
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          Sorry.... Do you mean 'constipation'? This might be
          a cultural 'verbism' issue.
          I'm only trying to get clarification here. I'm trying
          to learn something I don't know... btw, which is an
          aweful lot... unfortunately I'm the kind of guy who
          makes the mistake first then learns why I was lucky I
          didn't blow myself up. And then drinks it anyway.
          I know what I know... everything else I don't!
          Are we on the same page? Same pew? Or even same
          church?

          Let me know where i went wrong.


          Link


          --- burrows206 <geoff@...> wrote:

          >
          > Hi Link,
          > You wrote:-
          > "What the heck is 'compaction'?
          > Well I've heard of it, I just got back from visiting
          > my 86 year old
          > mother-in-law, in hospital. And the nurse was
          > talking about when
          > they let her out that it was important she take her
          > laxative to
          > avoid 'compaction'.
          > When I dilute my booze I surely want to avoid
          > compaction of any
          > kind no matter what the specific gravity of my
          > compactions are,
          > before I pee and dilute regardless if I have any
          > compactions or not,
          > which isn't anybody's business but my own anyway.
          > I think maybe I have the wrong end of this
          > brown compacted stick
          > here so I'll quit before I fall right in it.
          > So "What the heck is 'compaction'???
          > Geoff
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Link D'Antoni
          > <link2d@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Actually the differences are a result of
          > calculating
          > > a weight vs a volume. Specific
          > Gravity/density/proof
          > > are based on the weight relationship of water.
          > You
          > > were calculating based on the volume. Herein lies
          > the
          > > rub.
          > >
          > > If memory serves (a big 'IF') Ethyl Alcohol sp gr
          > is
          > > .7900 sp gr. Of course, H2O is 1.0000 sp gr.
          > >
          > > What the heck is 'compaction'?
          > >
          > > Link
          > >
          > >
          > > --- scotwisky <scotwisky@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rodmacd2000"
          > > > <rmacdoug@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Yes but remember Tony warns that his
          > calculation
          > > > ignores the effect of
          > > > > "compaction". How does one correct for this?
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > I've asked several people and all agreed that in
          > > > quantities we are
          > > > dealing with inaccuracies in measuring volumes
          > will
          > > > make more
          > > > difference than compaction.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          > ______________
          > > Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's
          > cheap PC-to-Phone
          > call rates
          > > (http://voice.yahoo.com)
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >




          __________________________________________________________________________________________
          Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
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        • bty827601
          Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five successful runs (judging
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 20, 2006
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            Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
            UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
            successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results) but
            have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.

            I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
            packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.

            No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93% abv.
            Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?

            To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
            (including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
            hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?

            My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
            read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
            an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?

            Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?

            Looking forward to being led further along the path of enlightenment.

            Regards Chris
          • surya9375
            Hi to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing the 1200W hotplate with a 750W. Regards Surya. ... but ... abv. ... enlightenment.
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 20, 2006
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              Hi
              to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing
              the 1200W hotplate with a 750W.

              Regards
              Surya.
              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bty827601" <cshaws@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
              > UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
              > successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results)
              but
              > have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.
              >
              > I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
              > packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.
              >
              > No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93%
              abv.
              > Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?
              >
              > To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
              > (including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
              > hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?
              >
              > My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
              > read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
              > an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?
              >
              > Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?
              >
              > Looking forward to being led further along the path of
              enlightenment.
              >
              > Regards Chris
              >
            • Larry
              ... Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with a pair of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall socket to
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 20, 2006
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                At 08:35 AM 12/20/2006, you wrote:
                to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing
                the 1200W hotplate with a 750W.

                Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with a pair of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall socket to control the flow of electricity. www.harborfreight.com sells a "Router Speed Control" for under $15 which will do it.

                I have an Essential Extractor and a 1200 watt hotplate also, though it's not "Pro" model, with it's larger-diameter column.

                It doesn't work well with the hotplate, because I can't turn the heat down without messing up the still's operation.

                I can't run it at full power, and the thermostat turns it off completely for cooling, then turns it on full-blast for heating. The diffuser plate doesn't even that out.

                In MY case, I just switched to propane. www.academy.com has "Outdoor Gourmet Propane Cooker" for $19.


                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bty827601" <cshaws@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
                > UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
                > successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results)
                but
                > have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.
                >
                > I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
                > packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.
                >
                > No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93%
                abv.
                > Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?
                >
                > To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
                > (including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
                > hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?
                >
                > My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
                > read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
                > an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?
                >
                > Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?
                >
                > Looking forward to being led further along the path of
                enlightenment.
              • surya9375
                And the second thing I remember reading here in one of the postings by Harry. Is to distill with a lower percentage of ethnol in the mash in the first place.
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
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                  And the second thing I remember reading here in one of the postings by
                  Harry. Is to distill with a lower percentage of ethnol in the mash in
                  the first place. That is, try distilling a mash that has, say.... 10%
                  alcohol. The reason is, The higher the % of ethnol in the mash, the
                  tougher it is to seperate it.

                  Regards
                  Surya.

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Larry <larry@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > At 08:35 AM 12/20/2006, you wrote:
                  > >to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing
                  > >the 1200W hotplate with a 750W.
                  >
                  > Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with
                  a pair
                  > of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall
                  socket to
                  > control the flow of electricity. www.harborfreight.com sells a "Router
                  > Speed Control" for under $15 which will do it.
                  >
                  > I have an Essential Extractor and a 1200 watt hotplate also, though
                  it's
                  > not "Pro" model, with it's larger-diameter column.
                  >
                  > It doesn't work well with the hotplate, because I can't turn the
                  heat down
                  > without messing up the still's operation.
                  >
                  > I can't run it at full power, and the thermostat turns it off
                  completely
                  > for cooling, then turns it on full-blast for heating. The diffuser
                  plate
                  > doesn't even that out.
                  >
                  > In MY case, I just switched to propane. www.academy.com has "Outdoor
                  > Gourmet Propane Cooker" for $19.
                  >
                  > ----------
                  >
                  > --- In <mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com>Distillers@yahoogroups.com,
                  > "bty827601" <cshaws@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
                  > > UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
                  > > successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results)
                  > but
                  > > have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.
                  > >
                  > > I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
                  > > packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.
                  > >
                  > > No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93%
                  > abv.
                  > > Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?
                  > >
                  > > To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
                  > > (including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
                  > > hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?
                  > >
                  > > My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
                  > > read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
                  > > an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?
                  > >
                  > > Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?
                  > >
                  > > Looking forward to being led further along the path of
                  > enlightenment.
                  >
                • John Wheeler
                  Hey Larry, I ve got a still spirits setup - and I haven t been able to find out what the wattage is for the internal heating coil, but it doesn t seem to have
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
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                    Hey Larry,

                    I've got a still spirits setup - and I haven't been able to find out what the wattage is for the internal heating coil, but it doesn't seem to have any sort of temperature control, it's just either on or off...

                    I'm considering getting one of those router speed control units to try to dial back the power that's going into the pot.  It looks pretty simple, just dial back if it's getting too hot too fast.  My 20 liter will heat up about 10 degrees in an hour, and then another 10 in ten minutes, and then another 10 in about 5 minutes... so it goes from about 20 deg to 50 in 1:15, but then it shoots up to about 85 deg. in another 10 minutes, and then on to about 92-93 where it hovers for a while.  Ideally, I'd like to drop the heat by half at around 50-60 just to slow things down.  Would this be able to do that?

                    Thanks much!

                    --John

                    On 12/20/06, Larry <larry@...> wrote:

                    At 08:35 AM 12/20/2006, you wrote:

                    to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing
                    the 1200W hotplate with a 750W.

                    Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with a pair of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall socket to control the flow of electricity. www.harborfreight.com sells a "Router Speed Control" for under $15 which will do it.

                    I have an Essential Extractor and a 1200 watt hotplate also, though it's not "Pro" model, with it's larger-diameter column.

                    It doesn't work well with the hotplate, because I can't turn the heat down without messing up the still's operation.

                    I can't run it at full power, and the thermostat turns it off completely for cooling, then turns it on full-blast for heating. The diffuser plate doesn't even that out.

                    In MY case, I just switched to propane. www.academy.com has "Outdoor Gourmet Propane Cooker" for $19.



                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bty827601" <cshaws@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
                    > UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
                    > successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results)
                    but
                    > have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.
                    >
                    > I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
                    > packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.
                    >
                    > No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93%
                    abv.
                    > Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?
                    >
                    > To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
                    > (including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
                    > hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?
                    >
                    > My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
                    > read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
                    > an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?
                    >
                    > Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?
                    >
                    > Looking forward to being led further along the path of
                    enlightenment.


                  • !Zapata Vive!
                    I can t find the speed control on harborfreight anymore. A google search does return about a thousand others in the $20-$30 range though...
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
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                      I can't find the speed control on harborfreight anymore.  A google search does return about a thousand others in the $20-$30 range though...


                      Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with a pair of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall socket to control the flow of electricity. www.harborfreight.com sells a "Router Speed Control" for under $15 which will do it.
                    • !Zapata Vive!
                      DOH! *slaps forehead* SWMBO was reading over my shoulder, pushed me aside, grabbed the mouse and found the router control in about 3 seconds flat....
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
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                        DOH!
                        *slaps forehead*
                        SWMBO was reading over my shoulder, pushed me aside, grabbed the
                        mouse and found the router control in about 3 seconds flat....
                        http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43060

                        apparently the search feature on harborfreight doesn't return any
                        results for "rooter countrol".....
                        The impressive thing is she caught my mistake while talking on the
                        cell phone, eating a sandwich, and getting ready to walk out the
                        door! Never ceases to amaze me....
                      • duds2u
                        The Still Spirits heating element is 1380 watts ... what ... have
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
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                          The Still Spirits heating element is 1380 watts

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John Wheeler" <riodutchie@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Hey Larry,
                          >
                          > I've got a still spirits setup - and I haven't been able to find out
                          what
                          > the wattage is for the internal heating coil, but it doesn't seem to
                          have
                          > any sort of temperature control, it's just either on or off...
                          >
                        • Andrew Bugal
                          Controlling roots for us guys is a wife s mission in life. (For those of you that do not understand what I mean, ask an Aussie what a root is). Bwyze !Zapata
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
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                            Controlling roots for us guys is a wife's mission in life.  (For those of you that do not understand what I mean, ask an Aussie what a root is).
                             
                            Bwyze

                            !Zapata Vive! <zapatavive@...> wrote:
                            DOH!
                            *slaps forehead*
                            SWMBO was reading over my shoulder, pushed me aside, grabbed the
                            mouse and found the router control in about 3 seconds flat....
                            http://www.harborfr eight.com/ cpi/ctaf/ displayitem. taf?Itemnumber= 43060

                            apparently the search feature on harborfreight doesn't return any
                            results for "rooter countrol"... ..
                            The impressive thing is she caught my mistake while talking on the
                            cell phone, eating a sandwich, and getting ready to walk out the
                            door! Never ceases to amaze me....

                            Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

                          • Larry
                            ... Higher the % of ethanol in the mash only means that you get more ethanol distilled out... it has nothing to do with the effort required to separate it. If
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
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                              At 06:57 AM 12/21/2006, you wrote:
                              That is, try distilling a mash that has, say.... 10%
                              alcohol. The reason is, The higher the % of ethnol in the mash, the
                              tougher it is to seperate it.

                              Higher the % of ethanol in the mash only means that you get more ethanol distilled out... it has nothing to do with the effort required to separate it.

                              If you start with 5% or with 40%, you'll still spend exactly the same effort, same amount of time, and same amount of electricity/propane/etc. only get less output.





                              Barefoot Larry
                              Tradition Music
                              www.traditionmusic.com

                            • Larry
                              That router speed control will work just fine for your rig. Routers not only have electric motors, which use relatively high amounts of power, but they have
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
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                                That router speed control will work just fine for your rig. Routers not only have electric motors, which use relatively high amounts of power, but they have pretty powerful ones.

                                You should probably check the power ratings on any that you're considering, but most will handle a 1500-watt draw with lots of headroom left over.

                                That's why you don't go to the hardware store and buy a wall-dimmer for an overhead light.  Those are typically rated at 150-500 watts.

                                Yes, a speed control would do what you're asking about below, though you might want to avoid turning it down multiple times.

                                The column should work better if you can find a low heat-setting that still produces steam, then after you find it, leave it constant.
                                The best road to purity is to bring the wash up to boiling pretty quickly, then back down and use as little heat as you can get by with and still get any output. The slower the better, and the more constant, the better.

                                I don't think you can pre-determine heat-settings too accurately, no matter how precisely the speed-control is marked.

                                The barometric pressure, ambient temperature, and whether a breeze is blowing on your column will all change heating requirements somewhat between each run. I guess that if you distill inside your house, that can control some of it, but that presents a pretty serious fire-hazard, even when using electric heat.

                                Most people advise keeping a fire extinguisher within 15-20 feet of the still, even when it's outdoors. Kidde makes some nice A-B-C extinguishers that are refillable for about $30 at Home Depot and most hardware stores... <grin>


                                At 10:57 AM 12/21/2006, you wrote:
                                I've got a still spirits setup - and I haven't been able to find out what the wattage is for the internal heating coil, but it doesn't seem to have any sort of temperature control, it's just either on or off...

                                I'm considering getting one of those router speed control units to try to dial back the power that's going into the pot.  It looks pretty simple, just dial back if it's getting too hot too fast.  My 20 liter will heat up about 10 degrees in an hour, and then another 10 in ten minutes, and then another 10 in about 5 minutes... so it goes from about 20 deg to 50 in 1:15, but then it shoots up to about 85 deg. in another 10 minutes, and then on to about 92-93 where it hovers for a while.  Ideally, I'd like to drop the heat by half at around 50-60 just to slow things down.  Would this be able to do that?
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