## Re: Vapour capers

Expand Messages
• Yes but remember Tony warns that his calculation ignores the effect of compaction . How does one correct for this? ...
Message 1 of 20 , Nov 5, 2006
Yes but remember Tony warns that his calculation ignores the effect of
"compaction". How does one correct for this?

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "scotwisky" <scotwisky@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bty827601" <cshaws@> wrote:
> >
> > When I'm diluting my spirits ready for bottling I always try and
> > achieve 43 > 45 % abv. I usually manage it but it's always a bit hit
> > and miss. Does any one have a chart or a formula so I can read off a
> > scale of how much water to add to achieve a desired strength.
> >
> > For example today I have 41/2 litres at 57% and I want to cut to 43%.
> > How much water do I add to achieve this ? I've done the maths but it
> > just doesn't quite work out. This is why I've ended up with 57% !!!
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/files/homedistiller_calcs_1.html
>
• ... I ve asked several people and all agreed that in quantities we are dealing with inaccuracies in measuring volumes will make more difference than
Message 2 of 20 , Nov 5, 2006
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rodmacd2000" <rmacdoug@...> wrote:
>
> Yes but remember Tony warns that his calculation ignores the effect of
> "compaction". How does one correct for this?
>

I've asked several people and all agreed that in quantities we are
dealing with inaccuracies in measuring volumes will make more
difference than compaction.
• Actually the differences are a result of calculating a weight vs a volume. Specific Gravity/density/proof are based on the weight relationship of water. You
Message 3 of 20 , Nov 5, 2006
Actually the differences are a result of calculating
a weight vs a volume. Specific Gravity/density/proof
are based on the weight relationship of water. You
were calculating based on the volume. Herein lies the
rub.

If memory serves (a big 'IF') Ethyl Alcohol sp gr is
.7900 sp gr. Of course, H2O is 1.0000 sp gr.

What the heck is 'compaction'?

--- scotwisky <scotwisky@...> wrote:

> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rodmacd2000"
> <rmacdoug@...> wrote:
> >
> > Yes but remember Tony warns that his calculation
> ignores the effect of
> > "compaction". How does one correct for this?
> >
>
> I've asked several people and all agreed that in
> quantities we are
> dealing with inaccuracies in measuring volumes will
> make more
> difference than compaction.
>
>
>

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• Hi Link, You wrote:- What the heck is compaction ? Well I ve heard of it, I just got back from visiting my 86 year old mother-in-law, in hospital. And the
Message 4 of 20 , Nov 5, 2006
You wrote:-
"What the heck is 'compaction'?
Well I've heard of it, I just got back from visiting my 86 year old
mother-in-law, in hospital. And the nurse was talking about when
they let her out that it was important she take her laxative to
avoid 'compaction'.
When I dilute my booze I surely want to avoid compaction of any
kind no matter what the specific gravity of my compactions are,
before I pee and dilute regardless if I have any compactions or not,
which isn't anybody's business but my own anyway.
I think maybe I have the wrong end of this brown compacted stick
here so I'll quit before I fall right in it.
So "What the heck is 'compaction'???
Geoff

>
>
> Actually the differences are a result of calculating
> a weight vs a volume. Specific Gravity/density/proof
> are based on the weight relationship of water. You
> were calculating based on the volume. Herein lies the
> rub.
>
> If memory serves (a big 'IF') Ethyl Alcohol sp gr is
> .7900 sp gr. Of course, H2O is 1.0000 sp gr.
>
> What the heck is 'compaction'?
>
>
>
> --- scotwisky <scotwisky@...> wrote:
>
> > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rodmacd2000"
> > <rmacdoug@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes but remember Tony warns that his calculation
> > ignores the effect of
> > > "compaction". How does one correct for this?
> > >
> >
> > I've asked several people and all agreed that in
> > quantities we are
> > dealing with inaccuracies in measuring volumes will
> > make more
> > difference than compaction.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone
call rates
> (http://voice.yahoo.com)
>
• When water and alcohol, both distilled , are combined the molecules fit together in a way that results in less volume that the sum of the original two volumes.
Message 5 of 20 , Nov 5, 2006
When water and alcohol, both distilled , are combined the molecules fit together in a way that results in less volume that the sum of the original two volumes.  IE  50 parts water, 50 parts alcohol, combined equal 95 parts solution by volume.  Or something like that.

----- Original Message ----
From: burrows206 <geoff@...>
To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2006 7:27:23 PM
Subject: [Distillers] Re: Vapour capers

You wrote:-
"What the heck is 'compaction' ?
Well I've heard of it, I just got back from visiting my 86 year old
mother-in-law, in hospital. And the nurse was talking about when
they let her out that it was important she take her laxative to
avoid 'compaction' .
When I dilute my booze I surely want to avoid compaction of any
kind no matter what the specific gravity of my compactions are,
before I pee and dilute regardless if I have any compactions or not,
which isn't anybody's business but my own anyway.
I think maybe I have the wrong end of this brown compacted stick
here so I'll quit before I fall right in it.
So "What the heck is 'compaction' ???
Geoff

>
>
> Actually the differences are a result of calculating
> a weight vs a volume. Specific Gravity/density/ proof
> are based on the weight relationship of water. You
> were calculating based on the volume. Herein lies the
> rub.
>
> If memory serves (a big 'IF') Ethyl Alcohol sp gr is
> .7900 sp gr. Of course, H2O is 1.0000 sp gr.
>
> What the heck is 'compaction' ?
>
>
>
> --- scotwisky <scotwisky@. ..> wrote:
>
> > --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "rodmacd2000"
> > <rmacdoug@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes but remember Tony warns that his calculation
> > ignores the effect of
> > > "compaction" . How does one correct for this?
> > >
> >
> > I've asked several people and all agreed that in
> > quantities we are
> > dealing with inaccuracies in measuring volumes will
> > make more
> > difference than compaction.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
____________ __
> Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone
call rates
> (http://voice. yahoo.com)
>

• Sorry.... Do you mean constipation ? This might be a cultural verbism issue. I m only trying to get clarification here. I m trying to learn something I
Message 6 of 20 , Nov 5, 2006
Sorry.... Do you mean 'constipation'? This might be
a cultural 'verbism' issue.
I'm only trying to get clarification here. I'm trying
to learn something I don't know... btw, which is an
aweful lot... unfortunately I'm the kind of guy who
makes the mistake first then learns why I was lucky I
didn't blow myself up. And then drinks it anyway.
I know what I know... everything else I don't!
Are we on the same page? Same pew? Or even same
church?

Let me know where i went wrong.

--- burrows206 <geoff@...> wrote:

>
> You wrote:-
> "What the heck is 'compaction'?
> Well I've heard of it, I just got back from visiting
> my 86 year old
> mother-in-law, in hospital. And the nurse was
> they let her out that it was important she take her
> laxative to
> avoid 'compaction'.
> When I dilute my booze I surely want to avoid
> compaction of any
> kind no matter what the specific gravity of my
> compactions are,
> before I pee and dilute regardless if I have any
> compactions or not,
> which isn't anybody's business but my own anyway.
> I think maybe I have the wrong end of this
> brown compacted stick
> here so I'll quit before I fall right in it.
> So "What the heck is 'compaction'???
> Geoff
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Link D'Antoni
> >
> >
> > Actually the differences are a result of
> calculating
> > a weight vs a volume. Specific
> Gravity/density/proof
> > are based on the weight relationship of water.
> You
> > were calculating based on the volume. Herein lies
> the
> > rub.
> >
> > If memory serves (a big 'IF') Ethyl Alcohol sp gr
> is
> > .7900 sp gr. Of course, H2O is 1.0000 sp gr.
> >
> > What the heck is 'compaction'?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- scotwisky <scotwisky@...> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rodmacd2000"
> > > <rmacdoug@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yes but remember Tony warns that his
> calculation
> > > ignores the effect of
> > > > "compaction". How does one correct for this?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I've asked several people and all agreed that in
> > > quantities we are
> > > dealing with inaccuracies in measuring volumes
> will
> > > make more
> > > difference than compaction.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> ______________
> > Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's
> cheap PC-to-Phone
> call rates
> > (http://voice.yahoo.com)
> >
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________________________________________
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• Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five successful runs (judging
Message 7 of 20 , Dec 20, 2006
Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results) but
have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.

I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.

No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93% abv.
Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?

To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
(including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?

My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?

Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?

Looking forward to being led further along the path of enlightenment.

Regards Chris
• Hi to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing the 1200W hotplate with a 750W. Regards Surya. ... but ... abv. ... enlightenment.
Message 8 of 20 , Dec 20, 2006
Hi
to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing
the 1200W hotplate with a 750W.

Regards
Surya.
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bty827601" <cshaws@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
> UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
> successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results)
but
> have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.
>
> I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
> packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.
>
> No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93%
abv.
> Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?
>
> To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
> (including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
> hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?
>
> My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
> read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
> an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?
>
> Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?
>
> Looking forward to being led further along the path of
enlightenment.
>
> Regards Chris
>
• ... Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with a pair of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall socket to
Message 9 of 20 , Dec 20, 2006
At 08:35 AM 12/20/2006, you wrote:
to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing
the 1200W hotplate with a 750W.

Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with a pair of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall socket to control the flow of electricity. www.harborfreight.com sells a "Router Speed Control" for under \$15 which will do it.

I have an Essential Extractor and a 1200 watt hotplate also, though it's not "Pro" model, with it's larger-diameter column.

It doesn't work well with the hotplate, because I can't turn the heat down without messing up the still's operation.

I can't run it at full power, and the thermostat turns it off completely for cooling, then turns it on full-blast for heating. The diffuser plate doesn't even that out.

In MY case, I just switched to propane. www.academy.com has "Outdoor Gourmet Propane Cooker" for \$19.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bty827601" <cshaws@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
> UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
> successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results)
but
> have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.
>
> I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
> packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.
>
> No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93%
abv.
> Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?
>
> To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
> (including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
> hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?
>
> My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
> read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
> an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?
>
> Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?
>
> Looking forward to being led further along the path of
enlightenment.
• And the second thing I remember reading here in one of the postings by Harry. Is to distill with a lower percentage of ethnol in the mash in the first place.
Message 10 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
And the second thing I remember reading here in one of the postings by
Harry. Is to distill with a lower percentage of ethnol in the mash in
the first place. That is, try distilling a mash that has, say.... 10%
alcohol. The reason is, The higher the % of ethnol in the mash, the
tougher it is to seperate it.

Regards
Surya.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Larry <larry@...> wrote:
>
> At 08:35 AM 12/20/2006, you wrote:
> >to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing
> >the 1200W hotplate with a 750W.
>
> Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with
a pair
> of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall
socket to
> control the flow of electricity. www.harborfreight.com sells a "Router
> Speed Control" for under \$15 which will do it.
>
> I have an Essential Extractor and a 1200 watt hotplate also, though
it's
> not "Pro" model, with it's larger-diameter column.
>
> It doesn't work well with the hotplate, because I can't turn the
heat down
> without messing up the still's operation.
>
> I can't run it at full power, and the thermostat turns it off
completely
> for cooling, then turns it on full-blast for heating. The diffuser
plate
> doesn't even that out.
>
> In MY case, I just switched to propane. www.academy.com has "Outdoor
> Gourmet Propane Cooker" for \$19.
>
> ----------
>
> --- In <mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com>Distillers@yahoogroups.com,
> "bty827601" <cshaws@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
> > UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
> > successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results)
> but
> > have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.
> >
> > I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
> > packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.
> >
> > No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93%
> abv.
> > Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?
> >
> > To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
> > (including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
> > hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?
> >
> > My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
> > read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
> > an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?
> >
> > Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?
> >
> > Looking forward to being led further along the path of
> enlightenment.
>
• Hey Larry, I ve got a still spirits setup - and I haven t been able to find out what the wattage is for the internal heating coil, but it doesn t seem to have
Message 11 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
Hey Larry,

I've got a still spirits setup - and I haven't been able to find out what the wattage is for the internal heating coil, but it doesn't seem to have any sort of temperature control, it's just either on or off...

I'm considering getting one of those router speed control units to try to dial back the power that's going into the pot.  It looks pretty simple, just dial back if it's getting too hot too fast.  My 20 liter will heat up about 10 degrees in an hour, and then another 10 in ten minutes, and then another 10 in about 5 minutes... so it goes from about 20 deg to 50 in 1:15, but then it shoots up to about 85 deg. in another 10 minutes, and then on to about 92-93 where it hovers for a while.  Ideally, I'd like to drop the heat by half at around 50-60 just to slow things down.  Would this be able to do that?

Thanks much!

--John

On 12/20/06, Larry <larry@...> wrote:

At 08:35 AM 12/20/2006, you wrote:

to increase the purity, I think your only next try would be replacing
the 1200W hotplate with a 750W.

Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with a pair of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall socket to control the flow of electricity. www.harborfreight.com sells a "Router Speed Control" for under \$15 which will do it.

I have an Essential Extractor and a 1200 watt hotplate also, though it's not "Pro" model, with it's larger-diameter column.

It doesn't work well with the hotplate, because I can't turn the heat down without messing up the still's operation.

I can't run it at full power, and the thermostat turns it off completely for cooling, then turns it on full-blast for heating. The diffuser plate doesn't even that out.

In MY case, I just switched to propane. www.academy.com has "Outdoor Gourmet Propane Cooker" for \$19.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bty827601" <cshaws@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello fellow vapour meisters and a merry christmas to you all from
> UK. I own an Essential Extractor Pro Series II. I have had five
> successful runs (judging by favourable reactions to the results)
but
> have a few questions for the more experienced amongst you.
>
> I use a 1200W electric hotplate with a diffuser plate. Copper mesh
> packing and run with 23 litres of 18% wash.
>
> No matter how much I tweak the water flow I cannot get above 93%
abv.
> Any ideas or is this a reasonable result for the PS-II?
>
> To get four and a half litres of spirit takes about 15 hours
> (including 3 hours from cold to first drops of distillate - so 12
> hours of actual reflux) - is this a normal length of time?
>
> My product always has a faint, pleasant odour but, from what I've
> read, a perfect product should be odourless. Even quality vodka has
> an odour so does "odourless" mean "smells of nothing but alcohol"?
>
> Similarly what does "no taste" mean - similar to above?
>
> Looking forward to being led further along the path of
enlightenment.

• I can t find the speed control on harborfreight anymore. A google search does return about a thousand others in the \$20-\$30 range though...
Message 12 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
I can't find the speed control on harborfreight anymore.  A google search does return about a thousand others in the \$20-\$30 range though...

Or he could destroy the thermostat in the one he already owns (with a pair of needle-nosed pliers) and put something between it and the wall socket to control the flow of electricity. www.harborfreight.com sells a "Router Speed Control" for under \$15 which will do it.
• DOH! *slaps forehead* SWMBO was reading over my shoulder, pushed me aside, grabbed the mouse and found the router control in about 3 seconds flat....
Message 13 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
DOH!
SWMBO was reading over my shoulder, pushed me aside, grabbed the
mouse and found the router control in about 3 seconds flat....
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43060

apparently the search feature on harborfreight doesn't return any
results for "rooter countrol".....
The impressive thing is she caught my mistake while talking on the
cell phone, eating a sandwich, and getting ready to walk out the
door! Never ceases to amaze me....
• The Still Spirits heating element is 1380 watts ... what ... have
Message 14 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
The Still Spirits heating element is 1380 watts

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John Wheeler" <riodutchie@...>
wrote:
>
> Hey Larry,
>
> I've got a still spirits setup - and I haven't been able to find out
what
> the wattage is for the internal heating coil, but it doesn't seem to
have
> any sort of temperature control, it's just either on or off...
>
• Controlling roots for us guys is a wife s mission in life. (For those of you that do not understand what I mean, ask an Aussie what a root is). Bwyze !Zapata
Message 15 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
Controlling roots for us guys is a wife's mission in life.  (For those of you that do not understand what I mean, ask an Aussie what a root is).

Bwyze

!Zapata Vive! <zapatavive@...> wrote:
DOH!
SWMBO was reading over my shoulder, pushed me aside, grabbed the
mouse and found the router control in about 3 seconds flat....
http://www.harborfr eight.com/ cpi/ctaf/ displayitem. taf?Itemnumber= 43060

apparently the search feature on harborfreight doesn't return any
results for "rooter countrol"... ..
The impressive thing is she caught my mistake while talking on the
cell phone, eating a sandwich, and getting ready to walk out the
door! Never ceases to amaze me....

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

• ... Higher the % of ethanol in the mash only means that you get more ethanol distilled out... it has nothing to do with the effort required to separate it. If
Message 16 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
At 06:57 AM 12/21/2006, you wrote:
That is, try distilling a mash that has, say.... 10%
alcohol. The reason is, The higher the % of ethnol in the mash, the
tougher it is to seperate it.

Higher the % of ethanol in the mash only means that you get more ethanol distilled out... it has nothing to do with the effort required to separate it.

If you start with 5% or with 40%, you'll still spend exactly the same effort, same amount of time, and same amount of electricity/propane/etc. only get less output.

Barefoot Larry

• That router speed control will work just fine for your rig. Routers not only have electric motors, which use relatively high amounts of power, but they have
Message 17 of 20 , Dec 21, 2006
That router speed control will work just fine for your rig. Routers not only have electric motors, which use relatively high amounts of power, but they have pretty powerful ones.

You should probably check the power ratings on any that you're considering, but most will handle a 1500-watt draw with lots of headroom left over.

That's why you don't go to the hardware store and buy a wall-dimmer for an overhead light.  Those are typically rated at 150-500 watts.

Yes, a speed control would do what you're asking about below, though you might want to avoid turning it down multiple times.

The column should work better if you can find a low heat-setting that still produces steam, then after you find it, leave it constant.
The best road to purity is to bring the wash up to boiling pretty quickly, then back down and use as little heat as you can get by with and still get any output. The slower the better, and the more constant, the better.

I don't think you can pre-determine heat-settings too accurately, no matter how precisely the speed-control is marked.

The barometric pressure, ambient temperature, and whether a breeze is blowing on your column will all change heating requirements somewhat between each run. I guess that if you distill inside your house, that can control some of it, but that presents a pretty serious fire-hazard, even when using electric heat.

Most people advise keeping a fire extinguisher within 15-20 feet of the still, even when it's outdoors. Kidde makes some nice A-B-C extinguishers that are refillable for about \$30 at Home Depot and most hardware stores... <grin>

At 10:57 AM 12/21/2006, you wrote:
I've got a still spirits setup - and I haven't been able to find out what the wattage is for the internal heating coil, but it doesn't seem to have any sort of temperature control, it's just either on or off...

I'm considering getting one of those router speed control units to try to dial back the power that's going into the pot.  It looks pretty simple, just dial back if it's getting too hot too fast.  My 20 liter will heat up about 10 degrees in an hour, and then another 10 in ten minutes, and then another 10 in about 5 minutes... so it goes from about 20 deg to 50 in 1:15, but then it shoots up to about 85 deg. in another 10 minutes, and then on to about 92-93 where it hovers for a while.  Ideally, I'd like to drop the heat by half at around 50-60 just to slow things down.  Would this be able to do that?
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