Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Distillers] What proof is preservative?

Expand Messages
  • Robert Thomas
    Hi Richard, you ll need much higher %ages and preferably acidic. As an analogy, think how easy beer turns to vinegar, and how much more difficult it is to have
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 2, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Richard,
      you'll need much higher %ages and preferably acidic. As an analogy,
      think how easy beer turns to vinegar, and how much more difficult it is
      to have 12% wine go off (it still does though). Alcohol as a sterilant
      swab is usually ca 50% (higher is actually less effective, for reasons
      I won't go into).
      I suppose you are thinking of storing largish quantities, otherwise
      distillation (or even boiling - preferably 2 times with 3 days between
      to kill spores) would be good.
      cheers
      Rob.

      --- richardt2005 <richardt2005@...> wrote:

      > One of the many hats I wear is doing disaster planning for my
      > company. We've been talking about water storage - adding a few drops
      >
      > of bleach to a gallon of water before putting it on the shelf,
      > replacing it every couple of months, etc.
      >
      > It occurred to me that alcohol is a terrific preservative. Would 1
      > or
      > 2% ABV water keep on the shelf? Or would the concentration have to
      > be
      > higher?
      >
      >
      >


      Cheers,
      Rob.



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates
      (http://voice.yahoo.com)
    • Harry
      ... it is ... sterilant ... reasons ... between ... 16%+ abv is the sterility cutoff point vintners advocate in wines. This prevents most (not all) microbes.
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi Richard,
        > you'll need much higher %ages and preferably acidic. As an analogy,
        > think how easy beer turns to vinegar, and how much more difficult
        it is
        > to have 12% wine go off (it still does though). Alcohol as a
        sterilant
        > swab is usually ca 50% (higher is actually less effective, for
        reasons
        > I won't go into).
        > I suppose you are thinking of storing largish quantities, otherwise
        > distillation (or even boiling - preferably 2 times with 3 days
        between
        > to kill spores) would be good.
        > cheers
        > Rob.


        16%+ abv is the sterility cutoff point vintners advocate in wines.
        This prevents most (not all) microbes. For short term (several
        months) it's fine. For long term, think 20%+. This is one of the
        main reasons that wine was consumed as a hydrating liquid in
        preference to water in the dark ages, as it was known that strong
        wine could withstand spoilage by bacteria. However the logic was
        flawed.

        Bubonic plague (black death) was thought at the time to be spread by
        rats pissing in the water supply. More recent investigation has
        proven that it is spread mostly by infected fleas ravenously sucking
        blood from host animals, notably rats, but also dogs, cats, deer,
        and human lice. Rats urine spreads a different (but still very
        nasty) disease called 'leptospirosis'.

        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • gff_stwrt
        ... snip . Alcohol as a sterilant swab is usually ca 50% (higher is actually less effective, for reasons I won t go into). big snip ... In our food business
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 3, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...>
          wrote:
          >
          snip

          . Alcohol as a sterilant swab is usually ca 50% (higher is actually
          less effective, for reasons I won't go into).

          big snip
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Rob.
          >
          > Hi, Rob, hi folks,

          In our food business careful handwashing is essential, and we
          currently use antibacterial soap solutions.

          > A fairly recent innovation in hospitals is alcohol based (not sure
          if it is used as a 'hand-rub' or a soap, maybe either).

          I had considered using alcohol in a handwashing solution, possibly
          mixed with the glycerine that is a by-product of my son's bio-diesel
          production.

          Would a mixture giving 50% or a bit higher alcohol by volume be
          effective? Should other ingredients be used as well, or instead of
          the glycerine?

          Given that methanol is poisonous, would it be OK to use heads
          and/or tails in such a product?

          If this works it will be a lot cheaper than buying special soap and
          might be better too.

          Regards,

          The Baker
          >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          ______________
          > Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone
          call rates
          > (http://voice.yahoo.com)
          >
        • Robert Thomas
          Hi TB, By swabs I meant for cleaning surfaces etc, so your point about glyceline/ol is important: you will end up with dermatitis otherwise, if you re not
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 3, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi TB,
            By swabs I meant for cleaning surfaces etc, so your point about
            glyceline/ol is important: you will end up with dermatitis otherwise,
            if you're not lucky.
            I need to check my data (micro book has walked off the shelf). Ethanol
            at ca 50-60% is optimal (relying on memory here) because:
            1. it evaporates quickly
            2. higher % dries the bug cell membrane, but doesn't enter the cell to
            kill it. just add water and you have reconstituted bugs!

            phenol is often added to hand wash (if it smells horrible, you've got
            phenol in it). Short of mercury based sterilants (where's my hat??)
            phenol is among the best biocides.

            I wouldn't use meths as this is absorbed through the skin: not a
            problem for the occasional spillage, but regular hand washing with it
            is not clever! Plus, higher alcohols are more effective (hence the
            common use of isopropanol).

            Now, where's that book gone.....
            cheers
            rob.

            --- gff_stwrt <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:

            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > snip
            >
            > . Alcohol as a sterilant swab is usually ca 50% (higher is actually
            > less effective, for reasons I won't go into).
            >
            > big snip
            > >
            > > Cheers,
            > > Rob.
            > >
            > > Hi, Rob, hi folks,
            >
            > In our food business careful handwashing is essential, and we
            > currently use antibacterial soap solutions.
            >
            > > A fairly recent innovation in hospitals is alcohol based (not sure
            > if it is used as a 'hand-rub' or a soap, maybe either).
            >
            > I had considered using alcohol in a handwashing solution, possibly
            > mixed with the glycerine that is a by-product of my son's bio-diesel
            > production.
            >
            > Would a mixture giving 50% or a bit higher alcohol by volume be
            > effective? Should other ingredients be used as well, or instead of
            > the glycerine?
            >
            > Given that methanol is poisonous, would it be OK to use heads
            > and/or tails in such a product?
            >
            > If this works it will be a lot cheaper than buying special soap and
            >
            > might be better too.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > The Baker
            > >
            >
            ______________________________________________________________________
            > ______________
            > > Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone
            >
            > call rates
            > > (http://voice.yahoo.com)
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            Cheers,
            Rob.



            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail
            (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/)
          • Robert Hubble
            Harry, for Pete s sake, don t DISSUADE him! If you decide on 25% as a safe concentration, or even 43%, when whatever disaster they are afraid of strikes, it ll
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 9, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Harry, for Pete's sake, don't DISSUADE him!

              If you decide on 25% as a safe concentration, or even 43%, when whatever
              disaster they are afraid of strikes, it'll be the happiest damned disaster
              on record.

              You're kinda turning into a spoil-sport.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




              >From: "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
              >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [Distillers] Re: What proof is preservative?
              >Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 09:03:35 -0000
              >
              >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...>
              >wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Richard,
              > > you'll need much higher %ages and preferably acidic. As an analogy,
              > > think how easy beer turns to vinegar, and how much more difficult
              >it is
              > > to have 12% wine go off (it still does though). Alcohol as a
              >sterilant
              > > swab is usually ca 50% (higher is actually less effective, for
              >reasons
              > > I won't go into).
              > > I suppose you are thinking of storing largish quantities, otherwise
              > > distillation (or even boiling - preferably 2 times with 3 days
              >between
              > > to kill spores) would be good.
              > > cheers
              > > Rob.
              >
              >
              >16%+ abv is the sterility cutoff point vintners advocate in wines.
              >This prevents most (not all) microbes. For short term (several
              >months) it's fine. For long term, think 20%+. This is one of the
              >main reasons that wine was consumed as a hydrating liquid in
              >preference to water in the dark ages, as it was known that strong
              >wine could withstand spoilage by bacteria. However the logic was
              >flawed.
              >
              >Bubonic plague (black death) was thought at the time to be spread by
              >rats pissing in the water supply. More recent investigation has
              >proven that it is spread mostly by infected fleas ravenously sucking
              >blood from host animals, notably rats, but also dogs, cats, deer,
              >and human lice. Rats urine spreads a different (but still very
              >nasty) disease called 'leptospirosis'.
              >
              >Slainte!
              >regards Harry
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

              _________________________________________________________________
              Use your PC to make calls at very low rates
              https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.