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RE: [Distillers] Re: Power Controller for 2400 Watts

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  • Trid
    ... First and foremost...you cannot, nor will anyone, ever, control the temperature of the boil. You control the RATE...how hard it boils. ... Switching the
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 1, 2006
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      --- Anthony Athawes <Anthony.Athawes@...> wrote:

      > I'm right at the beginning of the trail of distillation, but it seems
      > obvious that one needs to control the temp of the boil to within fairly
      > close limits by increasing or reducing the output of the electric element.
      > (Or if you used gas, turning it up or down).

      First and foremost...you cannot, nor will anyone, ever, control the
      "temperature" of the boil. You control the RATE...how hard it boils.

      > The alternative is to switch it on and off whilst reading the thermometer
      > at the top of the column - rather laborious don't you think?!

      Switching the heating element on and off is what an electric stove's dial does,
      automatically. This will suffice for running a pot still, but for reflux, it
      never allows you to stabilize and achieve proper reflux. That's why power
      controllers which adjust the amount of power to the heating element while
      constantly energized is the preferred method of variable electric heat input.
      It allows finer tuning of the vapor rate than simply using a lower wattage
      element always on.

      > I don't think PV/T comes into it as the reflux column is open at the top.
      > Use of Watts is immaterial - the right temp. is.

      The temperature will just happen...use of watts is quite crucial. Too many and
      your boil is too fast and your reflux is inefficient and you get less
      separation. Too few and you either stop boiling, or the takeoff rate is minute
      (translated, running aaaaaaaallllllllllllllll day long). Trust me, it's all
      about the watts/btus.

      Trid
      -the horse needeed another one :)
    • Larry
      ... You can t control the temp of the boil. That is determined by the boiling point of the liquid being heated, and your altitude above sea level. What you do
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 1, 2006
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        At 09:33 AM 08/01/2006, you wrote:

        >I'm right at the beginning of the trail of distillation, but it seems
        >obvious that one needs to control the temp of the boil to within fairly
        >close limits by increasing or reducing the output of the electric element.
        >(Or if you used gas, turning it up or down).
        >
        >The alternative is to switch it on and off whilst reading the thermometer
        >at the top of the column - rather laborious don't you think?!

        You can't control the temp of the boil. That is determined by the boiling
        point of the liquid being heated, and your altitude above sea level.

        What you do is control the RATE of the boil.

        Water boils at 212F. If you throw it on an element that is 1500 degrees, it
        will never go above 212, though whatever amount of it actually touches the
        1500-degree source will reach 212 VERY quickly, as it flashes to steam.

        Since ethanol boils at 170, and water boils at 212, the steam from pure
        ethanol will never be above 170.

        Your wash is a mixture of water and various alcohols.

        If it was pure ethanol, head-temperature would rise to 170 and never vary,
        until the boiler ran dry and started throwing nothing but hot air up the
        column.

        However, since there are several different alcohols, and water in your
        wash, the head temp will vary with what is actually being boiled... the
        thermometer is reading the temp of whatever steam is reaching it.

        As the wash gets closer to being pure water, it's temp (and the steam it
        produces) will also increase to the boiling point of pure water.

        That's how you can tell when you're getting close to having boiled all the
        alcohol out of the wash by watching your head temperature.

        If your head temp reaches 212F, you are making pure distilled water,
        diluting whatever alcohol you may have already collected, just as if you'd
        poured it in from a water bottle.
      • Link D'Antoni
        Trid/Alias, Cycling on and off with pot still is no fun at all. My kitchen stove is electric. The cycling on and off drove---me---crazy! I seperate (make a
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 1, 2006
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          Trid/Alias,

          Cycling on and off with pot still is no fun at all.
          My kitchen stove is electric. The cycling on and off
          drove---me---crazy! I seperate (make a cut) every 150
          ml. The percent condensed varied depending on the
          cycle. I constantly worried about boil over as well.
          I went to natural and propane for both pot and reflux.


          Link


          --- Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:

          > --- Anthony Athawes <Anthony.Athawes@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > I'm right at the beginning of the trail of
          > distillation, but it seems
          > > obvious that one needs to control the temp of the
          > boil to within fairly
          > > close limits by increasing or reducing the output
          > of the electric element.
          > > (Or if you used gas, turning it up or down).
          >
          > First and foremost...you cannot, nor will anyone,
          > ever, control the
          > "temperature" of the boil. You control the
          > RATE...how hard it boils.
          >
          > > The alternative is to switch it on and off whilst
          > reading the thermometer
          > > at the top of the column - rather laborious don't
          > you think?!
          >
          > Switching the heating element on and off is what an
          > electric stove's dial does,
          > automatically. This will suffice for running a pot
          > still, but for reflux, it
          > never allows you to stabilize and achieve proper
          > reflux. That's why power
          > controllers which adjust the amount of power to the
          > heating element while
          > constantly energized is the preferred method of
          > variable electric heat input.
          > It allows finer tuning of the vapor rate than simply
          > using a lower wattage
          > element always on.
          >
          > > I don't think PV/T comes into it as the reflux
          > column is open at the top.
          > > Use of Watts is immaterial - the right temp. is.
          >
          > The temperature will just happen...use of watts is
          > quite crucial. Too many and
          > your boil is too fast and your reflux is inefficient
          > and you get less
          > separation. Too few and you either stop boiling, or
          > the takeoff rate is minute
          > (translated, running aaaaaaaallllllllllllllll day
          > long). Trust me, it's all
          > about the watts/btus.
          >
          > Trid
          > -the horse needeed another one :)
          >


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        • Larry
          ... Man, cycling with a reflux still is just as bad, if not worse. My boiler came from Brewhaus.com, along with a free aluminum plate to go between the kettle
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 1, 2006
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            At 07:53 PM 08/01/2006, you wrote:

            >Trid/Alias,
            >
            >Cycling on and off with pot still is no fun at all.

            Man, cycling with a reflux still is just as bad, if not worse.

            My boiler came from Brewhaus.com, along with a free aluminum plate to go
            between the kettle and the burner.

            That helps some, as the 1/4" thick aluminum acts as a buffer, passing on
            retained heat while the element is cycled off.

            However, it imparts heat to the bottom of the boiler AND to the hotplate
            heating element, which I suspect makes the hotplate stay cycled off longer,
            allowing the plate and boiler to both cool anyway...

            I've gone to propane, myself.


            Barefoot Larry
            The Tradition String Band
            www.traditionmusic.com



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Brendan Keith
            The cycling is controlled entirely within the stove control. Lingering temperature of the element, due to a hot pot or an aluminum plate, has no effect. --
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 1, 2006
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              The cycling is controlled entirely within the stove control. Lingering
              temperature of the element, due to a hot pot or an aluminum plate, has no
              effect.


              --
              Brendan Keith
              bkeith@...

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Larry
              Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:10 PM
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Power Controller for 2400 Watts


              At 07:53 PM 08/01/2006, you wrote:

              >Trid/Alias,
              >
              >Cycling on and off with pot still is no fun at all.

              ...

              That helps some, as the 1/4" thick aluminum acts as a buffer, passing on
              retained heat while the element is cycled off.

              However, it imparts heat to the bottom of the boiler AND to the hotplate
              heating element, which I suspect makes the hotplate stay cycled off longer,
              allowing the plate and boiler to both cool anyway...

              I've gone to propane, myself.

              Barefoot Larry
              The Tradition String Band
              www.traditionmusic.com
            • daver01a
              OK - One question :: Ias your Reflux Still the tone or two condensor model... I have a reflux column with three condensors... My column uses a boiler (pot) to
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 1, 2006
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                OK - One question :: Ias your Reflux Still the tone or two condensor
                model...
                I have a reflux column with three condensors...
                My column uses a boiler (pot) to generate the steam at the bottom of
                the column (just like a pot still)... But I have a feed line to add
                depleted water (Yes I said Water)...
                My Beer Mash feed is right above the stripper column (just before the
                first condensor)....
                The bottom condensor (1 st condensor) is right above the stripper
                column...
                Then I have the reflux column .....
                Then I have a 2nd condensor sitting on top of the reflux column - and
                just before the condensation dome (collector)...
                I have a feed tube takung off from the condensation dome that feeds
                into the final alcohol condensor (my 3rd condensor)..
                Then I have a set of 3-way ball valves that allow me to feed the
                product into a hydrometed cup for on the spot proof
                testing/verification....
                I'm only getting 2.8 Gallons per minute at 94% ...
                Haven't tried grain yet - but yard grass mash seems to be working fine
                for me...
                Too much detail about the mash concoction to go into here...
                But I believe you can control either an electric powered or gas
                powered still with at moderating condensor (like my 1st condensor)...
                Or if using electric elements - a dryer thermostat (those varistors
                they put on electric dryer drums)... All you have to do is place a
                semi metalic shim and practice with the thickness to cause the
                thermostat to kick out at your target temp...
                .....
                Sorry I got long wnded - but thought I'd throw my two cents (or 2 1/2)
                in...
                I'll put my still design on one of my web sites and include a link
                later - but it really isn't that revolutionary..
                Thanks..
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Larry <larry@...> wrote:
                >
                > At 07:53 PM 08/01/2006, you wrote:
                >
                > >Trid/Alias,
                > >
                > >Cycling on and off with pot still is no fun at all.
                >
                > Man, cycling with a reflux still is just as bad, if not worse.
                >
                > My boiler came from Brewhaus.com, along with a free aluminum plate
                to go
                > between the kettle and the burner.
                >
                > That helps some, as the 1/4" thick aluminum acts as a buffer,
                passing on
                > retained heat while the element is cycled off.
                >
                > However, it imparts heat to the bottom of the boiler AND to the
                hotplate
                > heating element, which I suspect makes the hotplate stay cycled off
                longer,
                > allowing the plate and boiler to both cool anyway...
                >
                > I've gone to propane, myself.
                >
                >
                > Barefoot Larry
                > The Tradition String Band
                > www.traditionmusic.com
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • diskmaster23
                Makes perfect sense. ... to ... question, the ... putting into it. ... it when you ... am ... at boiling, ... boil HARDER. ... work the reflux
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 2, 2006
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                  Makes perfect sense.

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- diskmaster23 <diskmaster23@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I have a question for all of you regarding boiling point and
                  > > controlling temperature of the boiler. What is the reason why you
                  > > would be controlling the boiler? Would it because you don't want
                  to
                  > > not apply more btu's or watt's than needed?
                  >
                  > To parrot what Cary said...and to put it in the context of your
                  question, the
                  > control of the boiler that you want is how much energy you're
                  putting into it.
                  > You don't want to exceed the amount of energy you can take out of
                  it when you
                  > condense (or reflux, as appropriate).
                  >
                  > > Because you guys have always told me that you cannot control the
                  > > boiling point (without pressure) (which is true of course). If I
                  am
                  > > wrong in this, what would be the reason in controlling it?
                  >
                  > You're not. You're controlling the RATE at which it boils. Once
                  at boiling,
                  > any excess energy beyound that which maintains the boil makes it
                  boil HARDER.
                  > The harder the boil, the faster the vapors leave, and the more
                  work the reflux
                  > coil/condenser have to do to do their thing.
                  >
                  > Make any sense?
                  > Trid
                  >
                • Anthony Athawes
                  Larry, Thank you very much for taking this business up. Well, it s rather like your head bone s connected to your neck bone......I d sure like to see a picture
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 2, 2006
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                    Larry,

                    Thank you very much for taking this business up.

                    Well, it's rather like your head bone's connected to your neck bone......I'd
                    sure like to see a picture to see what's going on.

                    Thank goodness we are back on track though!

                    You get 2.8 gals /minute? They usually talk in terms of 3 drips a second.
                    They must be the size of hen's eggs!

                    My nearly completed still is the "World Class Reflux Still". Why it is so
                    named I am still to determine or somebody to tell me? It was the one on the
                    web. Basically it cost around £50 plus a certain amount of hardware I had in
                    stock from brewing beer from grain.

                    What the devil is Yard Grass? I raised a question about using Sugar Beet
                    which sounds a lot more likely than grass - but it was poorly spoken of.

                    The Varistors sound interesting . Any more info? Is it a domestic dryer or
                    one in the hairdressers? Have tried a Variac which started to smoke, and
                    looked at the Simmerstats they put in electric ovens, but they only turn the
                    current on and off at varying intervals and are likely to be difficult to
                    manage

                    Thank you very much again , Larry. It's good to see other peoples
                    experience.

                    Tony.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                    Behalf Of daver01a
                    Sent: 02 August 2006 04:22
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: Power Controller for 2400 Watts

                    OK - One question :: Ias your Reflux Still the tone or two condensor
                    model...
                    I have a reflux column with three condensors...
                    My column uses a boiler (pot) to generate the steam at the bottom of
                    the column (just like a pot still)... But I have a feed line to add
                    depleted water (Yes I said Water)...
                    My Beer Mash feed is right above the stripper column (just before the
                    first condensor)....
                    The bottom condensor (1 st condensor) is right above the stripper
                    column...
                    Then I have the reflux column .....
                    Then I have a 2nd condensor sitting on top of the reflux column - and
                    just before the condensation dome (collector)...
                    I have a feed tube takung off from the condensation dome that feeds
                    into the final alcohol condensor (my 3rd condensor)..
                    Then I have a set of 3-way ball valves that allow me to feed the
                    product into a hydrometed cup for on the spot proof
                    testing/verification....
                    I'm only getting 2.8 Gallons per minute at 94% ...
                    Haven't tried grain yet - but yard grass mash seems to be working fine
                    for me...
                    Too much detail about the mash concoction to go into here...
                    But I believe you can control either an electric powered or gas
                    powered still with at moderating condensor (like my 1st condensor)...
                    Or if using electric elements - a dryer thermostat (those varistors
                    they put on electric dryer drums)... All you have to do is place a
                    semi metalic shim and practice with the thickness to cause the
                    thermostat to kick out at your target temp...
                    .....
                    Sorry I got long wnded - but thought I'd throw my two cents (or 2 1/2)
                    in...
                    I'll put my still design on one of my web sites and include a link
                    later - but it really isn't that revolutionary..
                    Thanks..
                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Larry <larry@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > At 07:53 PM 08/01/2006, you wrote:
                    >
                    > >Trid/Alias,
                    > >
                    > >Cycling on and off with pot still is no fun at all.
                    >
                    > Man, cycling with a reflux still is just as bad, if not worse.
                    >
                    > My boiler came from Brewhaus.com, along with a free aluminum plate
                    to go
                    > between the kettle and the burner.
                    >
                    > That helps some, as the 1/4" thick aluminum acts as a buffer,
                    passing on
                    > retained heat while the element is cycled off.
                    >
                    > However, it imparts heat to the bottom of the boiler AND to the
                    hotplate
                    > heating element, which I suspect makes the hotplate stay cycled off
                    longer,
                    > allowing the plate and boiler to both cool anyway...
                    >
                    > I've gone to propane, myself.
                    >
                    >
                    > Barefoot Larry
                    > The Tradition String Band
                    > www.traditionmusic.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >










                    Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                    FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Anthony Athawes
                    Yes, I know this from school, PV/T etc. But I think most ordinary stills operate to atmosphere, in which case the heat required to maintain a given temp. would
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 2, 2006
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                      Yes, I know this from school, PV/T etc. But I think most ordinary stills
                      operate to atmosphere, in which case the heat required to maintain a given
                      temp. would gradually get less.

                      My interest is focused on electrical controllers though.

                      Tony

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                      Behalf Of diskmaster23
                      Sent: 02 August 2006 13:35
                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Power Controller for 2400 Watts

                      Makes perfect sense.

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- diskmaster23 <diskmaster23@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I have a question for all of you regarding boiling point and
                      > > controlling temperature of the boiler. What is the reason why you
                      > > would be controlling the boiler? Would it because you don't want
                      to
                      > > not apply more btu's or watt's than needed?
                      >
                      > To parrot what Cary said...and to put it in the context of your
                      question, the
                      > control of the boiler that you want is how much energy you're
                      putting into it.
                      > You don't want to exceed the amount of energy you can take out of
                      it when you
                      > condense (or reflux, as appropriate).
                      >
                      > > Because you guys have always told me that you cannot control the
                      > > boiling point (without pressure) (which is true of course). If I
                      am
                      > > wrong in this, what would be the reason in controlling it?
                      >
                      > You're not. You're controlling the RATE at which it boils. Once
                      at boiling,
                      > any excess energy beyound that which maintains the boil makes it
                      boil HARDER.
                      > The harder the boil, the faster the vapors leave, and the more
                      work the reflux
                      > coil/condenser have to do to do their thing.
                      >
                      > Make any sense?
                      > Trid
                      >






                      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                      FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • daver01a
                      Yard grass is the grass clippings you get from your yard when you mow the grass... We use an acid flash to break the lignin binders at the cellular level...
                      Message 10 of 18 , Aug 2, 2006
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                        Yard grass is the grass clippings you get from your yard when you mow
                        the grass...
                        We use an acid flash to break the lignin binders at the cellular level...
                        Then after rinse we treat the brew with cellulase enzymes... the
                        result is fermentable sugar proteins...
                        From here on it is just like any other distillation...
                        It called cellular conversion - the enzymes are availiable
                        commercially and are now cheap enough for practical use...
                        Since we have 1,000;s of miles of golf coarses here in Phoenix,
                        Arizona - we thought we'd put the 140 tons of monthly clippings to
                        good use...
                        But we use our ethanol to make E-85 gas ( so I'l just have to start
                        another thread - because I do realize that my comments are off track -
                        I apologize)....
                        Take care.
                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Athawes"
                        <Anthony.Athawes@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Larry,
                        >
                        > Thank you very much for taking this business up.
                        >
                        > Well, it's rather like your head bone's connected to your neck
                        bone......I'd
                        > sure like to see a picture to see what's going on.
                        >
                        > Thank goodness we are back on track though!
                        >
                        > You get 2.8 gals /minute? They usually talk in terms of 3 drips a
                        second.
                        > They must be the size of hen's eggs!
                        >
                        > My nearly completed still is the "World Class Reflux Still". Why it
                        is so
                        > named I am still to determine or somebody to tell me? It was the one
                        on the
                        > web. Basically it cost around £50 plus a certain amount of hardware
                        I had in
                        > stock from brewing beer from grain.
                        >
                        > What the devil is Yard Grass? I raised a question about using Sugar Beet
                        > which sounds a lot more likely than grass - but it was poorly spoken of.
                        >
                        > The Varistors sound interesting . Any more info? Is it a domestic
                        dryer or
                        > one in the hairdressers? Have tried a Variac which started to smoke, and
                        > looked at the Simmerstats they put in electric ovens, but they only
                        turn the
                        > current on and off at varying intervals and are likely to be
                        difficult to
                        > manage
                        >
                        > Thank you very much again , Larry. It's good to see other peoples
                        > experience.
                        >
                        > Tony.
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                        > Behalf Of daver01a
                        > Sent: 02 August 2006 04:22
                        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Power Controller for 2400 Watts
                        >
                        > OK - One question :: Ias your Reflux Still the tone or two condensor
                        > model...
                        > I have a reflux column with three condensors...
                        > My column uses a boiler (pot) to generate the steam at the bottom of
                        > the column (just like a pot still)... But I have a feed line to add
                        > depleted water (Yes I said Water)...
                        > My Beer Mash feed is right above the stripper column (just before the
                        > first condensor)....
                        > The bottom condensor (1 st condensor) is right above the stripper
                        > column...
                        > Then I have the reflux column .....
                        > Then I have a 2nd condensor sitting on top of the reflux column - and
                        > just before the condensation dome (collector)...
                        > I have a feed tube takung off from the condensation dome that feeds
                        > into the final alcohol condensor (my 3rd condensor)..
                        > Then I have a set of 3-way ball valves that allow me to feed the
                        > product into a hydrometed cup for on the spot proof
                        > testing/verification....
                        > I'm only getting 2.8 Gallons per minute at 94% ...
                        > Haven't tried grain yet - but yard grass mash seems to be working fine
                        > for me...
                        > Too much detail about the mash concoction to go into here...
                        > But I believe you can control either an electric powered or gas
                        > powered still with at moderating condensor (like my 1st condensor)...
                        > Or if using electric elements - a dryer thermostat (those varistors
                        > they put on electric dryer drums)... All you have to do is place a
                        > semi metalic shim and practice with the thickness to cause the
                        > thermostat to kick out at your target temp...
                        > .....
                        > Sorry I got long wnded - but thought I'd throw my two cents (or 2 1/2)
                        > in...
                        > I'll put my still design on one of my web sites and include a link
                        > later - but it really isn't that revolutionary..
                        > Thanks..
                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Larry <larry@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > At 07:53 PM 08/01/2006, you wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >Trid/Alias,
                        > > >
                        > > >Cycling on and off with pot still is no fun at all.
                        > >
                        > > Man, cycling with a reflux still is just as bad, if not worse.
                        > >
                        > > My boiler came from Brewhaus.com, along with a free aluminum plate
                        > to go
                        > > between the kettle and the burner.
                        > >
                        > > That helps some, as the 1/4" thick aluminum acts as a buffer,
                        > passing on
                        > > retained heat while the element is cycled off.
                        > >
                        > > However, it imparts heat to the bottom of the boiler AND to the
                        > hotplate
                        > > heating element, which I suspect makes the hotplate stay cycled off
                        > longer,
                        > > allowing the plate and boiler to both cool anyway...
                        > >
                        > > I've gone to propane, myself.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Barefoot Larry
                        > > The Tradition String Band
                        > > www.traditionmusic.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                      • Anthony Athawes
                        Larry, You didn t comment on the size per min. of your drips - either you have a very big stiil or there s a mistake - surely? Well, we don t have yards in
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 3, 2006
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                          Larry, You didn't comment on the size per min. of your drips - either you
                          have a very big stiil or there's a mistake - surely?

                          Well, we don't have "yards" in Britain, but we certainly have to cut the
                          grass in our gardens. Are you really saying you can concoct a good wash for
                          making whisky etc. out of grass clippings? As I said last time, even Sugar
                          Beet is reckoned to be poor. There was no enthusiasm for the idea at any
                          rate - so grass.......?

                          I don't know if you play golf, but courses will be a fairly unlikely source
                          of clippings. Most are left on the ground, and after that we have a powerful
                          tractor that blows them into the rough. No body's going to rescue them. Most
                          parts are cut weekly or twice weekly and only the Greens are dumped - in
                          small piles.

                          But let's keep to the subject - POWER CONTROLLERS.

                          Tony

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                          Behalf Of daver01a
                          Sent: 03 August 2006 05:37
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: Power Controller for 2400 Watts

                          Yard grass is the grass clippings you get from your yard when you mow
                          the grass...
                          We use an acid flash to break the lignin binders at the cellular level...
                          Then after rinse we treat the brew with cellulase enzymes... the
                          result is fermentable sugar proteins...
                          From here on it is just like any other distillation...
                          It called cellular conversion - the enzymes are availiable
                          commercially and are now cheap enough for practical use...
                          Since we have 1,000;s of miles of golf coarses here in Phoenix,
                          Arizona - we thought we'd put the 140 tons of monthly clippings to
                          good use...
                          But we use our ethanol to make E-85 gas ( so I'l just have to start
                          another thread - because I do realize that my comments are off track -
                          I apologize)....
                          Take care.
                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Athawes"
                          <Anthony.Athawes@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Larry,
                          >
                          > Thank you very much for taking this business up.
                          >
                          > Well, it's rather like your head bone's connected to your neck
                          bone......I'd
                          > sure like to see a picture to see what's going on.
                          >
                          > Thank goodness we are back on track though!
                          >
                          > You get 2.8 gals /minute? They usually talk in terms of 3 drips a
                          second.
                          > They must be the size of hen's eggs!
                          >
                          > My nearly completed still is the "World Class Reflux Still". Why it
                          is so
                          > named I am still to determine or somebody to tell me? It was the one
                          on the
                          > web. Basically it cost around £50 plus a certain amount of hardware
                          I had in
                          > stock from brewing beer from grain.
                          >
                          > What the devil is Yard Grass? I raised a question about using Sugar Beet
                          > which sounds a lot more likely than grass - but it was poorly spoken of.
                          >
                          > The Varistors sound interesting . Any more info? Is it a domestic
                          dryer or
                          > one in the hairdressers? Have tried a Variac which started to smoke, and
                          > looked at the Simmerstats they put in electric ovens, but they only
                          turn the
                          > current on and off at varying intervals and are likely to be
                          difficult to
                          > manage
                          >
                          > Thank you very much again , Larry. It's good to see other peoples
                          > experience.
                          >
                          > Tony.
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                          > Behalf Of daver01a
                          > Sent: 02 August 2006 04:22
                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Power Controller for 2400 Watts
                          >
                          > OK - One question :: Ias your Reflux Still the tone or two condensor
                          > model...
                          > I have a reflux column with three condensors...
                          > My column uses a boiler (pot) to generate the steam at the bottom of
                          > the column (just like a pot still)... But I have a feed line to add
                          > depleted water (Yes I said Water)...
                          > My Beer Mash feed is right above the stripper column (just before the
                          > first condensor)....
                          > The bottom condensor (1 st condensor) is right above the stripper
                          > column...
                          > Then I have the reflux column .....
                          > Then I have a 2nd condensor sitting on top of the reflux column - and
                          > just before the condensation dome (collector)...
                          > I have a feed tube takung off from the condensation dome that feeds
                          > into the final alcohol condensor (my 3rd condensor)..
                          > Then I have a set of 3-way ball valves that allow me to feed the
                          > product into a hydrometed cup for on the spot proof
                          > testing/verification....
                          > I'm only getting 2.8 Gallons per minute at 94% ...
                          > Haven't tried grain yet - but yard grass mash seems to be working fine
                          > for me...
                          > Too much detail about the mash concoction to go into here...
                          > But I believe you can control either an electric powered or gas
                          > powered still with at moderating condensor (like my 1st condensor)...
                          > Or if using electric elements - a dryer thermostat (those varistors
                          > they put on electric dryer drums)... All you have to do is place a
                          > semi metalic shim and practice with the thickness to cause the
                          > thermostat to kick out at your target temp...
                          > .....
                          > Sorry I got long wnded - but thought I'd throw my two cents (or 2 1/2)
                          > in...
                          > I'll put my still design on one of my web sites and include a link
                          > later - but it really isn't that revolutionary..
                          > Thanks..
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Larry <larry@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > At 07:53 PM 08/01/2006, you wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >Trid/Alias,
                          > > >
                          > > >Cycling on and off with pot still is no fun at all.
                          > >
                          > > Man, cycling with a reflux still is just as bad, if not worse.
                          > >
                          > > My boiler came from Brewhaus.com, along with a free aluminum plate
                          > to go
                          > > between the kettle and the burner.
                          > >
                          > > That helps some, as the 1/4" thick aluminum acts as a buffer,
                          > passing on
                          > > retained heat while the element is cycled off.
                          > >
                          > > However, it imparts heat to the bottom of the boiler AND to the
                          > hotplate
                          > > heating element, which I suspect makes the hotplate stay cycled off
                          > longer,
                          > > allowing the plate and boiler to both cool anyway...
                          > >
                          > > I've gone to propane, myself.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Barefoot Larry
                          > > The Tradition String Band
                          > > www.traditionmusic.com
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                          > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >









                          Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                          FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • diskmaster23
                          I am sure some of us are wondering if it relates to the grass kind that some of us love to smoke or the grass kind that is invovled in your yard?
                          Message 12 of 18 , Aug 3, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I am sure some of us are wondering if it relates to the "grass" kind
                            that some of us love to smoke or the grass kind that is invovled in
                            your yard?

                            distillation of grass? wtf....

                            Disk

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Athawes"
                            <Anthony.Athawes@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Larry, You didn't comment on the size per min. of your drips -
                            either you
                            > have a very big stiil or there's a mistake - surely?
                            >
                            > Well, we don't have "yards" in Britain, but we certainly have to cut the
                            > grass in our gardens. Are you really saying you can concoct a good
                            wash for
                            > making whisky etc. out of grass clippings? As I said last time,
                            even Sugar
                            > Beet is reckoned to be poor. There was no enthusiasm for the idea at any
                            > rate - so grass.......?
                            >
                            > I don't know if you play golf, but courses will be a fairly unlikely
                            source
                            > of clippings. Most are left on the ground, and after that we have a
                            powerful
                            > tractor that blows them into the rough. No body's going to rescue
                            them. Most
                            > parts are cut weekly or twice weekly and only the Greens are dumped - in
                            > small piles.
                            >
                            > But let's keep to the subject - POWER CONTROLLERS.
                            >
                            > Tony
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                            > Behalf Of daver01a
                            > Sent: 03 August 2006 05:37
                            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Power Controller for 2400 Watts
                            >
                            > Yard grass is the grass clippings you get from your yard when you mow
                            > the grass...
                            > We use an acid flash to break the lignin binders at the cellular
                            level...
                            > Then after rinse we treat the brew with cellulase enzymes... the
                            > result is fermentable sugar proteins...
                            > From here on it is just like any other distillation...
                            > It called cellular conversion - the enzymes are availiable
                            > commercially and are now cheap enough for practical use...
                            > Since we have 1,000;s of miles of golf coarses here in Phoenix,
                            > Arizona - we thought we'd put the 140 tons of monthly clippings to
                            > good use...
                            > But we use our ethanol to make E-85 gas ( so I'l just have to start
                            > another thread - because I do realize that my comments are off track -
                            > I apologize)....
                            > Take care.
                            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Athawes"
                            > <Anthony.Athawes@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Larry,
                            > >
                            > > Thank you very much for taking this business up.
                            > >
                            > > Well, it's rather like your head bone's connected to your neck
                            > bone......I'd
                            > > sure like to see a picture to see what's going on.
                            > >
                            > > Thank goodness we are back on track though!
                            > >
                            > > You get 2.8 gals /minute? They usually talk in terms of 3 drips a
                            > second.
                            > > They must be the size of hen's eggs!
                            > >
                            > > My nearly completed still is the "World Class Reflux Still". Why it
                            > is so
                            > > named I am still to determine or somebody to tell me? It was the one
                            > on the
                            > > web. Basically it cost around £50 plus a certain amount of hardware
                            > I had in
                            > > stock from brewing beer from grain.
                            > >
                            > > What the devil is Yard Grass? I raised a question about using
                            Sugar Beet
                            > > which sounds a lot more likely than grass - but it was poorly
                            spoken of.
                            > >
                            > > The Varistors sound interesting . Any more info? Is it a domestic
                            > dryer or
                            > > one in the hairdressers? Have tried a Variac which started to
                            smoke, and
                            > > looked at the Simmerstats they put in electric ovens, but they only
                            > turn the
                            > > current on and off at varying intervals and are likely to be
                            > difficult to
                            > > manage
                            > >
                            > > Thank you very much again , Larry. It's good to see other peoples
                            > > experience.
                            > >
                            > > Tony.
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                            > > Behalf Of daver01a
                            > > Sent: 02 August 2006 04:22
                            > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Power Controller for 2400 Watts
                            > >
                            > > OK - One question :: Ias your Reflux Still the tone or two condensor
                            > > model...
                            > > I have a reflux column with three condensors...
                            > > My column uses a boiler (pot) to generate the steam at the bottom of
                            > > the column (just like a pot still)... But I have a feed line to add
                            > > depleted water (Yes I said Water)...
                            > > My Beer Mash feed is right above the stripper column (just before the
                            > > first condensor)....
                            > > The bottom condensor (1 st condensor) is right above the stripper
                            > > column...
                            > > Then I have the reflux column .....
                            > > Then I have a 2nd condensor sitting on top of the reflux column - and
                            > > just before the condensation dome (collector)...
                            > > I have a feed tube takung off from the condensation dome that feeds
                            > > into the final alcohol condensor (my 3rd condensor)..
                            > > Then I have a set of 3-way ball valves that allow me to feed the
                            > > product into a hydrometed cup for on the spot proof
                            > > testing/verification....
                            > > I'm only getting 2.8 Gallons per minute at 94% ...
                            > > Haven't tried grain yet - but yard grass mash seems to be working fine
                            > > for me...
                            > > Too much detail about the mash concoction to go into here...
                            > > But I believe you can control either an electric powered or gas
                            > > powered still with at moderating condensor (like my 1st condensor)...
                            > > Or if using electric elements - a dryer thermostat (those varistors
                            > > they put on electric dryer drums)... All you have to do is place a
                            > > semi metalic shim and practice with the thickness to cause the
                            > > thermostat to kick out at your target temp...
                            > > .....
                            > > Sorry I got long wnded - but thought I'd throw my two cents (or 2 1/2)
                            > > in...
                            > > I'll put my still design on one of my web sites and include a link
                            > > later - but it really isn't that revolutionary..
                            > > Thanks..
                            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Larry <larry@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > At 07:53 PM 08/01/2006, you wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > >Trid/Alias,
                            > > > >
                            > > > >Cycling on and off with pot still is no fun at all.
                            > > >
                            > > > Man, cycling with a reflux still is just as bad, if not worse.
                            > > >
                            > > > My boiler came from Brewhaus.com, along with a free aluminum plate
                            > > to go
                            > > > between the kettle and the burner.
                            > > >
                            > > > That helps some, as the 1/4" thick aluminum acts as a buffer,
                            > > passing on
                            > > > retained heat while the element is cycled off.
                            > > >
                            > > > However, it imparts heat to the bottom of the boiler AND to the
                            > > hotplate
                            > > > heating element, which I suspect makes the hotplate stay cycled off
                            > > longer,
                            > > > allowing the plate and boiler to both cool anyway...
                            > > >
                            > > > I've gone to propane, myself.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Barefoot Larry
                            > > > The Tradition String Band
                            > > > www.traditionmusic.com
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                            > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                            > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                          • Harry
                            ... Could you please trim the message to include only the relevant parts, instead of the entire several messages of the thread? Slainte! regards Harry
                            Message 13 of 18 , Aug 3, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "diskmaster23" <diskmaster23@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > I am sure some of us are wondering if it relates to the "grass" kind
                              > that some of us love to smoke or the grass kind that is invovled in
                              > your yard?
                              >
                              > distillation of grass? wtf....
                              >
                              > Disk



                              Could you please trim the message to include only the relevant parts,
                              instead of the entire several messages of the thread?

                              Slainte!
                              regards Harry
                              Moderator
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.