- Hello John,

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/ is a great reference as well as

joining the related Robert Warren forum.

After reading Robert's web site, and learning the basics of fuel ethanol

production, you may want to go on to discover more about larger production

capacities at the following web site: www.biofuelsenergycorp.com. If you

want a commercial venture, then you need to understand the basics first and

you can supply yourself with plenty of fuel with a small still such as you

already envision. You are on the wrong forum to discuss making fuel. The

next best informational site is here:

http://desorgilles.tripod.com/id137.html

Peggy

-----Original Message-----

From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of John

Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:46 PM

To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Distillers] condenser design

Sorry if this question has already been discussed... I am new to the

group. I am actually tinkering with making fuel ethanol. Before

investing in a 6 inch collumn I thought I would build a small 2 inch

reflux collumn and see just how much time and effort is involved in

the basic process, making a beer, distilling it off, cleaning the

apparatus, disposing of the byproducts and doing it all over again.

Considering if my time is of any value it may just be cheaper to buy

gasoline at $3.00 a gallon.

That being said, I am considering building a 5 foot tall 2 inch

diameter copper collumn packed with stainless or copper scrubbers, a

*T* at the top then a condenser continuing from there. I think it

is referred to as a "nixon" (or some president)design(?) I have

looked at several *plans* but dont quite get how long to make the

condensor. I figure it will be 2 inch diameter with a 1/4 inch

copper tube coiled around maybe a 1 inch tube (1 inch tube then

removed leaving the coil) inside. Looking at diagrams I have found

I can kinda interpolate that the condensor is maybe somewhere

between 12 inches and 24 inches... but not sure. Even a 2 inch

collum represents a pretty healthy investment, so I dont want to buy

any more copper than I have to. Anyone know of an optimal condensor

size or formula for calculating length?

Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/

FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org

Yahoo! Groups Links - Still (no pun intended) exploring condensor design. Fuel or consumable, the purpose is the same, trying to get a 95% ethanol product efficently.

So I did a little math (I am by no means a math person, so corrections welcomed), and came up with the following thoughts and numbers...

Beginning with a 2 inch condensor tube.... I recall persons saying they were using 15 to 20 feet of coiled 1/4 inch tubing in a 16 inch tube. Coiling 1/4 inch tubing without kinking or flattening it is difficult... been through my first roll of ice maker tubing already... hence my voodoo math.

I figured the cooling must be related to the coil surface area. So I took the circumfrence of the 1/4 inch tube and multiplied it by 20 feet. Came out with a surface area of 15.7 sq inches. Then got to thnking about a 1/2 inch straight tube just run through the center of the 2 inch condensor tube. Turns out you only need some 5 inch length of 1/2 inch tubing to get the same surface area as 20 feet of the 1/4 inch tube. (at least buy my math... corrrections??).

So the difference being the coiled 1/4 inch tubing "requires" about 16 inch of condensor where the 1/2 inch straight tube just requires a 5 inch condensor tube. How signifigant is the length of the condensor tube in this equation? Would a 5 inch condensor be as efficient/effective as a 16 inch condensor? Would there be repercussions to making a 16 inch condensor with a 1/2 inch tube just run the length through the center?

Any thoughts/ideas?

jf

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - Comments interspersed...

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, John Flannagan <wish2no@...>

wrote:>

consumable, the purpose is the same, trying to get a 95% ethanol

> Still (no pun intended) exploring condensor design. Fuel or

product efficently.>

corrections welcomed), and came up with the following thoughts and

> So I did a little math (I am by no means a math person, so

numbers...>

saying they were using 15 to 20 feet of coiled 1/4 inch tubing in a

> Beginning with a 2 inch condensor tube.... I recall persons

16 inch tube. Coiling 1/4 inch tubing without kinking or flattening

it is difficult... been through my first roll of ice maker tubing

already... hence my voodoo math.

.............It's really quite easy. The methods have been

discussed many times. Do a search.

>

So I took the circumfrence of the 1/4 inch tube and multiplied it by

> I figured the cooling must be related to the coil surface area.

20 feet. Came out with a surface area of 15.7 sq inches. Then got

to thnking about a 1/2 inch straight tube just run through the

center of the 2 inch condensor tube. Turns out you only need some 5

inch length of 1/2 inch tubing to get the same surface area as 20

feet of the 1/4 inch tube. (at least buy my math... corrrections??).

.................Corrections as follows...

Tube area = PiDL

where...

Pi = 3.1416

D = Diameter of tube

L = Length of tube IN THE SAME DENOMINATOR e.g. inches

Therefore your tube area...

3.1416 x 0.25 x 20 x 12

-> 188.5 sq_ins.

The same surface area in a 1/2" tube is...

L / (PiD)

188.5 / 3.1416 x 0.5

-> 120" or 10 feet.

So you can see this makes all of the below irrelevant.

>

about 16 inch of condensor where the 1/2 inch straight tube just

> So the difference being the coiled 1/4 inch tubing "requires"

requires a 5 inch condensor tube. How signifigant is the length of

the condensor tube in this equation? Would a 5 inch condensor be as

efficient/effective as a 16 inch condensor? Would there be

repercussions to making a 16 inch condensor with a 1/2 inch tube

just run the length through the center?>

Sorry to burst your bubble, John.

> Any thoughts/ideas?

>

> jf

Slainte!

regards Harry - John,

I can only answer, or attemt to answer, the

anti-kink coil question. Use a pipe/PVC the diameter

that you wish to coil. With smaller copper tubing I

use a broom handle as my guide. There again depending

on how tight you want the coil to be... or not to

be... that is the question. And.. and don't get in a

hurry.

Link

--- John Flannagan <wish2no@...> wrote:

> Still (no pun intended) exploring condensor design.

__________________________________________________

> Fuel or consumable, the purpose is the same, trying

> to get a 95% ethanol product efficently.

>

> So I did a little math (I am by no means a math

> person, so corrections welcomed), and came up with

> the following thoughts and numbers...

>

> Beginning with a 2 inch condensor tube.... I

> recall persons saying they were using 15 to 20 feet

> of coiled 1/4 inch tubing in a 16 inch tube.

> Coiling 1/4 inch tubing without kinking or

> flattening it is difficult... been through my first

> roll of ice maker tubing already... hence my voodoo

> math.

>

> I figured the cooling must be related to the coil

> surface area. So I took the circumfrence of the 1/4

> inch tube and multiplied it by 20 feet. Came out

> with a surface area of 15.7 sq inches. Then got to

> thnking about a 1/2 inch straight tube just run

> through the center of the 2 inch condensor tube.

> Turns out you only need some 5 inch length of 1/2

> inch tubing to get the same surface area as 20 feet

> of the 1/4 inch tube. (at least buy my math...

> corrrections??).

>

> So the difference being the coiled 1/4 inch tubing

> "requires" about 16 inch of condensor where the 1/2

> inch straight tube just requires a 5 inch condensor

> tube. How signifigant is the length of the

> condensor tube in this equation? Would a 5 inch

> condensor be as efficient/effective as a 16 inch

> condensor? Would there be repercussions to making a

> 16 inch condensor with a 1/2 inch tube just run the

> length through the center?

>

> Any thoughts/ideas?

>

> jf

>

> __________________________________________________

> Do You Yahoo!?

> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam

> protection around

> http://mail.yahoo.com

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com - Your math is a little off where you failed to translate between feet

and inches. Actual area of 20 ft x 1/4" is 188 sq. in. (not 15.7 sq.

in. - a difference of x 12).

It *is* very difficult to coil 1.4" tubing to form a condenser coil

capable of fitting inside a 1 1/2" shroud (can and has been done 'though).

Many of us instead use 3/16" copper tubing for our condenser.

Available at auto supply outlets (either gas or break line tubing,

can't remember).

Good Luck

Rod

> --- John Flannagan <wish2no@...> wrote:

>

> > Still (no pun intended) exploring condensor design.

> > Fuel or consumable, the purpose is the same, trying

> > to get a 95% ethanol product efficently.

> >

> > So I did a little math (I am by no means a math

> > person, so corrections welcomed), and came up with

> > the following thoughts and numbers...

> >

> > Beginning with a 2 inch condensor tube.... I

> > recall persons saying they were using 15 to 20 feet

> > of coiled 1/4 inch tubing in a 16 inch tube.

> > Coiling 1/4 inch tubing without kinking or

> > flattening it is difficult... been through my first

> > roll of ice maker tubing already... hence my voodoo

> > math.

> >

> > I figured the cooling must be related to the coil

> > surface area. So I took the circumfrence of the 1/4

> > inch tube and multiplied it by 20 feet. Came out

> > with a surface area of 15.7 sq inches. Then got to

> > thnking about a 1/2 inch straight tube just run

> > through the center of the 2 inch condensor tube.

> > Turns out you only need some 5 inch length of 1/2

> > inch tubing to get the same surface area as 20 feet

> > of the 1/4 inch tube. (at least buy my math...

> > corrrections??).

> >

> > So the difference being the coiled 1/4 inch tubing

> > "requires" about 16 inch of condensor where the 1/2

> > inch straight tube just requires a 5 inch condensor

> > tube. How signifigant is the length of the

> > condensor tube in this equation? Would a 5 inch

> > condensor be as efficient/effective as a 16 inch

> > condensor? Would there be repercussions to making a

> > 16 inch condensor with a 1/2 inch tube just run the

> > length through the center?

> >

> > Any thoughts/ideas?

> >

> > jf

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> > Do You Yahoo!?

> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam

> > protection around

> > http://mail.yahoo.com

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

> Do You Yahoo!?

> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

> http://mail.yahoo.com

>