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Calm down children!

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  • Mike Nixon
    ... wrote: What part of no induced internal reflux don t you understand. The fractionating still described by Mike Nixon in the complete distiller is
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 30, 2006
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@...>
      wrote:

      What part of "no induced internal reflux" don't you understand.
      The fractionating still described by Mike Nixon in the complete distiller is
      complete fiction.
      No one discusses this because it does not work.

      Brendan Keith
      =======================================
      Dear Brendan,

      Please stop making such a noise at the back of the class, and pay attention!

      For a start, the book which I and Mike McCaw wrote is not "The Complete
      Distiller" but "The Compleat Distiller". You would know that if you had
      bought a copy and learned the facts about distillation.

      Secondly, nothing in that book is anything close to fiction, but is
      indisputable hard fact proved by extensive research and established practice
      in the distilling profession. This may challenge your cosy view of the
      cosmos, for which I'm sorry, but you will no doubt learn the truth when you
      ascend to heaven and finally learn what you missed throughout your life.
      Isn't it odd that many universities and colleges and now use Chapter 8 of
      that book as a text? My goodness, they must be idiots!

      It seems that nobody can take a rest from reading the posts sent to
      Distillers without learning that such rubbish is being posted. It used to be
      such a good forum (sorry Harry, but it needs to be said). Please make sure
      you have your facts right before publicly displaying your ignorance. How
      very strange it is that so many commercial distilleries now use equipment
      designed and made by me and my colleagues. Is it perhaps because they have
      found that this equipment is the most effective in producing results? Of
      course, uneducated amateurs like yourself would not be able to build such
      equipment, even if led by the nose. Please don't bother anyone with
      protestations that this is a "flame". You brought it on your own head by
      your ill-conceived post.

      Incidentally, your comments about burst fire controllers are also wide of
      the mark. Add electronics to your list of things to study.

      Mike Nixon - too old and tired now to suffer fools gladly.

      PS. Wal (who is far from being a fool, and for whom I have the greatest
      admiration!):
      the fractionating still column described in The Compleat Distiller is 50mm
      diameter, not length. The PDA-1 column is 305mm long. Initial testing with
      the head we designed gave 86% solid with just 100mm column length, but we
      wanted to be sure that users got 95-96% - which they do with monotonous
      regularity.
    • Ken Harding
      Hey Brendon, Read the book man, you re making an arse of yourself. Ken. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 30, 2006
        Hey Brendon, Read the book man, you're making an arse of yourself.
        Ken.

        Mike Nixon wrote:
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        > What part of "no induced internal reflux" don't you understand.
        > The fractionating still described by Mike Nixon in the complete distiller is
        > complete fiction.
        > No one discusses this because it does not work.
        >
        > Brendan Keith
        > =======================================
        > Dear Brendan,
        >
        > Please stop making such a noise at the back of the class, and pay attention!
        >
        > For a start, the book which I and Mike McCaw wrote is not "The Complete
        > Distiller" but "The Compleat Distiller". You would know that if you had
        > bought a copy and learned the facts about distillation.
        >
        > Secondly, nothing in that book is anything close to fiction, but is
        > indisputable hard fact proved by extensive research and established practice
        > in the distilling profession. This may challenge your cosy view of the
        > cosmos, for which I'm sorry, but you will no doubt learn the truth when you
        > ascend to heaven and finally learn what you missed throughout your life.
        > Isn't it odd that many universities and colleges and now use Chapter 8 of
        > that book as a text? My goodness, they must be idiots!
        >
        > It seems that nobody can take a rest from reading the posts sent to
        > Distillers without learning that such rubbish is being posted. It used to be
        > such a good forum (sorry Harry, but it needs to be said). Please make sure
        > you have your facts right before publicly displaying your ignorance. How
        > very strange it is that so many commercial distilleries now use equipment
        > designed and made by me and my colleagues. Is it perhaps because they have
        > found that this equipment is the most effective in producing results? Of
        > course, uneducated amateurs like yourself would not be able to build such
        > equipment, even if led by the nose. Please don't bother anyone with
        > protestations that this is a "flame". You brought it on your own head by
        > your ill-conceived post.
        >
        > Incidentally, your comments about burst fire controllers are also wide of
        > the mark. Add electronics to your list of things to study.
        >
        > Mike Nixon - too old and tired now to suffer fools gladly.
        >
        > PS. Wal (who is far from being a fool, and for whom I have the greatest
        > admiration!):
        > the fractionating still column described in The Compleat Distiller is 50mm
        > diameter, not length. The PDA-1 column is 305mm long. Initial testing with
        > the head we designed gave 86% solid with just 100mm column length, but we
        > wanted to be sure that users got 95-96% - which they do with monotonous
        > regularity.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Robert Thomas
        Hi Mike, good to see you wafting in like a breath of fresh air (or is that like a dragon s belch?). I for one am sorry you feel the way you do about the forum:
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 30, 2006
          Hi Mike,
          good to see you wafting in like a breath of fresh air (or is that like
          a dragon's belch?).
          I for one am sorry you feel the way you do about the forum: well, not
          so much the way you feel about it, more the course of action you have
          taken: to whit, silence.
          as with any noisy "class" there are still some listening and learning.
          When the "teachers" leave the room, there are few gems left that are
          worth listening for.
          Cheers,
          Rob.


          --- Mike Nixon <mike@...> wrote lots of stuff.




          Cheers,
          Rob.

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • Brendan Keith
          WIth all due respect, Mike, check the headers and sigs. Wasn t me making the ruckus. -- Brendan Keith bkeith@sympatico.ca ... From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 30, 2006
            WIth all due respect, Mike, check the headers and sigs. Wasn't me making
            the ruckus.

            --
            Brendan Keith
            bkeith@...


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
            Behalf Of Mike Nixon
            Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:54 AM
            To: Distillers Group
            Subject: [Distillers] Calm down children!


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@...>
            wrote:

            What part of "no induced internal reflux" don't you understand.
            The fractionating still described by Mike Nixon in the complete distiller is
            complete fiction.
            No one discusses this because it does not work.

            Brendan Keith
            =======================================
            Dear Brendan,

            Please stop making such a noise at the back of the class, and pay attention!

            For a start, the book which I and Mike McCaw wrote is not "The Complete
            Distiller" but "The Compleat Distiller". You would know that if you had
            bought a copy and learned the facts about distillation.

            Secondly, nothing in that book is anything close to fiction, but is
            indisputable hard fact proved by extensive research and established practice
            in the distilling profession.
            ...
          • Andrew Bugal
            Rob, If one is going to talk-the-talk then one had better be prepared to walk-the-walk If one has ones head up ones ass than it is easy to see where the
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
              Rob,

              If one is going to talk-the-talk then one had better be prepared to walk-the-walk

              If one has ones head up ones ass than it is easy to see where the comments are coming from. However, if one can only contribute in an obscure way, then what must be remembered is thtat they are not making this forum a better place. I am remined of a risk management theorem - "if you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it."



              Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...> wrote:
              Hi Mike,
              good to see you wafting in like a breath of fresh air (or is that like
              a dragon's belch?).
              I for one am sorry you feel the way you do about the forum: well, not
              so much the way you feel about it, more the course of action you have
              taken: to whit, silence.
              as with any noisy "class" there are still some listening and learning.
              When the "teachers" leave the room, there are few gems left that are
              worth listening for.
              Cheers,
              Rob.


              --- Mike Nixon wrote lots of stuff.




              Cheers,
              Rob.

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com


              Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
              Yahoo! Groups Links












              ---------------------------------
              On Yahoo!7
              Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • waljaco
              It would help if rocky_creek1 articulated what his problem is! He has not described his still in detail, and does not seem to want to take the opportunity
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                It would help if rocky_creek1 articulated what his problem is!
                He has not described his still in detail, and does not seem to want to
                take the opportunity available to voice his concerns to one of the
                authors of The Compleat Distiller. Strange...
                wal
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Bugal <bwyze44@...> wrote:
                >
                > Rob,
                >
                > If one is going to talk-the-talk then one had better be prepared
                to walk-the-walk
                >
                > If one has ones head up ones ass than it is easy to see where the
                comments are coming from. However, if one can only contribute in an
                obscure way, then what must be remembered is thtat they are not making
                this forum a better place. I am remined of a risk management theorem
                - "if you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it."
                >
                >
                >
                > Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...> wrote:
                > Hi Mike,
                > good to see you wafting in like a breath of fresh air (or is that like
                > a dragon's belch?).
                > I for one am sorry you feel the way you do about the forum: well, not
                > so much the way you feel about it, more the course of action you have
                > taken: to whit, silence.
                > as with any noisy "class" there are still some listening and learning.
                > When the "teachers" leave the room, there are few gems left that are
                > worth listening for.
                > Cheers,
                > Rob.
                >
                >
                > --- Mike Nixon wrote lots of stuff.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Cheers,
                > Rob.
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                >
                > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > On Yahoo!7
                > Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • rocky_creek1
                One, I haven t made any comments about burst fire controlers because in the U.S. we have no need for such things, also we spell compleat as complete. Two, you
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                  One, I haven't made any comments about burst fire controlers because
                  in the U.S. we have no need for such things, also we spell compleat as
                  complete.

                  Two, you state in the book that a good amatuer collunm can be made at
                  1 meter and 50mm diameter, and 90% can be obtained. Even at 1.5 meters
                  and 75mm you can't get 90% from an insulated column with no induced
                  reflux.I have yet to see one forumn member who has accomplished this.
                  Where is the meat?

                  Rocky_creek






                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > What part of "no induced internal reflux" don't you understand.
                  > The fractionating still described by Mike Nixon in the complete
                  distiller is
                  > complete fiction.
                  > No one discusses this because it does not work.
                  >
                  > Brendan Keith
                  > =======================================
                  > Dear Brendan,
                  >
                  > Please stop making such a noise at the back of the class, and pay
                  attention!
                  >
                  > For a start, the book which I and Mike McCaw wrote is not "The Complete
                  > Distiller" but "The Compleat Distiller". You would know that if you
                  had
                  > bought a copy and learned the facts about distillation.
                  >
                  > Secondly, nothing in that book is anything close to fiction, but is
                  > indisputable hard fact proved by extensive research and established
                  practice
                  > in the distilling profession. This may challenge your cosy view of the
                  > cosmos, for which I'm sorry, but you will no doubt learn the truth
                  when you
                  > ascend to heaven and finally learn what you missed throughout your
                  life.
                  > Isn't it odd that many universities and colleges and now use Chapter
                  8 of
                  > that book as a text? My goodness, they must be idiots!
                  >
                  > It seems that nobody can take a rest from reading the posts sent to
                  > Distillers without learning that such rubbish is being posted. It
                  used to be
                  > such a good forum (sorry Harry, but it needs to be said). Please
                  make sure
                  > you have your facts right before publicly displaying your ignorance.
                  How
                  > very strange it is that so many commercial distilleries now use
                  equipment
                  > designed and made by me and my colleagues. Is it perhaps because
                  they have
                  > found that this equipment is the most effective in producing
                  results? Of
                  > course, uneducated amateurs like yourself would not be able to build
                  such
                  > equipment, even if led by the nose. Please don't bother anyone with
                  > protestations that this is a "flame". You brought it on your own
                  head by
                  > your ill-conceived post.
                  >
                  > Incidentally, your comments about burst fire controllers are also
                  wide of
                  > the mark. Add electronics to your list of things to study.
                  >
                  > Mike Nixon - too old and tired now to suffer fools gladly.
                  >
                  > PS. Wal (who is far from being a fool, and for whom I have the
                  greatest
                  > admiration!):
                  > the fractionating still column described in The Compleat Distiller
                  is 50mm
                  > diameter, not length. The PDA-1 column is 305mm long. Initial
                  testing with
                  > the head we designed gave 86% solid with just 100mm column length,
                  but we
                  > wanted to be sure that users got 95-96% - which they do with monotonous
                  > regularity.
                  >
                • Michael Anderson
                  I get 93-95% through a single run every time... ... From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rocky_creek1 you state in
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                    I get 93-95% through a single run every time...

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of rocky_creek1

                    you state in the book that a good amatuer collunm can be made at
                    1 meter and 50mm diameter, and 90% can be obtained. Even at 1.5 meters
                    and 75mm you can't get 90% from an insulated column with no induced
                    reflux.I have yet to see one forumn member who has accomplished this.
                    Where is the meat?

                    Rocky_creek
                  • Robert Thomas
                    hi rocky_creek1, just a couple of remarks on this post (you ll forgive me for not ... How do you control voltage in the U.S.? ... Compleat does not equal
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                      hi rocky_creek1,
                      just a couple of remarks on this post (you'll forgive me for not
                      commenting on the thread, as i stopped following it a while back):

                      --- rocky_creek1 <rocky_creek@...> wrote:

                      > One, I haven't made any comments about burst fire controlers because
                      > in the U.S. we have no need for such things,
                      How do you control voltage in the U.S.?
                      > also we spell compleat
                      > as
                      > complete.
                      Compleat does not equal complete. Here's the definition:
                      compleat
                      adj.

                      1. Of or characterized by a highly developed or wide-ranging skill
                      or proficiency: “The compleat speechwriter... comes to anonymity from
                      Harvard Law” (Israel Shenker).
                      2. Being an outstanding example of a kind; quintessential: “Here
                      was the compleat modern misfit: the very air appeared to poison him;
                      his every step looked treacherous and hard won” (Stephen Schiff).

                      cheers
                      Rob.


                      Cheers,
                      Rob.

                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                    • Robert Thomas
                      Andrew, I obviously wasn t talking the talk or you wouldn t have found it obscure. As to walking the walk , what the heck does that mean? I don t find macho
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                        Andrew,
                        I obviously wasn't "talking the talk" or you wouldn't have found it
                        obscure. As to "walking the walk", what the heck does that mean? I
                        don't find macho cliches thrown about liberally particularly helpful.
                        Your quoted management theorem was interesting, but hardly apposite.
                        As to the value or not of "contibuting" to a flame war, I'm not sure it
                        makes any difference whether I write obscurly or not.
                        My intention was not obscure to Mike, and possibly others:
                        for those who found my post obscure, I find it depressing when those
                        who know a considerable amount find they can't or no longer enjoy
                        contributing to the forum, because their comments are either willfully
                        ignored, or constantly gainsaid. Nobody is right all the time, but
                        often it's a good idea to get your head in gear before you shove it "up
                        your ass" as you so eloquently put it.
                        Hopefully that has clafified my position for you and anyone else still
                        foolish enough to be following this thread.
                        PLEASE: any further discussion about this and directed at me,
                        SEND IT TO ME DIRECT: the forum is not the place.
                        Cheers
                        Rob.


                        --- Andrew Bugal <bwyze44@...> wrote:

                        > Rob,
                        >
                        > If one is going to talk-the-talk then one had better be prepared to
                        > walk-the-walk
                        >
                        > If one has ones head up ones ass than it is easy to see where the
                        > comments are coming from. However, if one can only contribute in an
                        > obscure way, then what must be remembered is thtat they are not
                        > making this forum a better place. I am remined of a risk management
                        > theorem - "if you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it."
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...> wrote:
                        > Hi Mike,
                        > good to see you wafting in like a breath of fresh air (or is that
                        > like
                        > a dragon's belch?).
                        > I for one am sorry you feel the way you do about the forum: well, not
                        > so much the way you feel about it, more the course of action you have
                        > taken: to whit, silence.
                        > as with any noisy "class" there are still some listening and
                        > learning.
                        > When the "teachers" leave the room, there are few gems left that are
                        > worth listening for.
                        > Cheers,
                        > Rob.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- Mike Nixon wrote lots of stuff.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > Rob.
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                        >
                        >
                        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > On Yahoo!7
                        > Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >


                        Cheers,
                        Rob.

                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        http://mail.yahoo.com
                      • oliminun
                        Well Rocky, I for one will prove you wrong. I do one run and get 96% every time. You are welcome to come and see it for your self, down under. Regards,
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                          Well Rocky, I for one will prove you wrong. I do one run and get 96%
                          every time.
                          You are welcome to come and see it for your self, down under.
                          Regards,
                          Oliminun



                          -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > One, I haven't made any comments about burst fire controlers
                          because
                          > in the U.S. we have no need for such things, also we spell
                          compleat as
                          > complete.
                          >
                          > Two, you state in the book that a good amatuer collunm can be made
                          at
                          > 1 meter and 50mm diameter, and 90% can be obtained. Even at 1.5
                          meters
                          > and 75mm you can't get 90% from an insulated column with no induced
                          > reflux.I have yet to see one forumn member who has accomplished
                          this.
                          > Where is the meat?
                          >
                          > Rocky_creek
                        • Ken Harding
                          yeah, So do I , 96% without a prob in the world Ken. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                            yeah, So do I , 96% without a prob in the world
                            Ken.

                            oliminun wrote:
                            > Well Rocky, I for one will prove you wrong. I do one run and get 96%
                            > every time.
                            > You are welcome to come and see it for your self, down under.
                            > Regards,
                            > Oliminun
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            >> One, I haven't made any comments about burst fire controlers
                            >>
                            > because
                            >
                            >> in the U.S. we have no need for such things, also we spell
                            >>
                            > compleat as
                            >
                            >> complete.
                            >>
                            >> Two, you state in the book that a good amatuer collunm can be made
                            >>
                            > at
                            >
                            >> 1 meter and 50mm diameter, and 90% can be obtained. Even at 1.5
                            >>
                            > meters
                            >
                            >> and 75mm you can't get 90% from an insulated column with no induced
                            >> reflux.I have yet to see one forumn member who has accomplished
                            >>
                            > this.
                            >
                            >> Where is the meat?
                            >>
                            >> Rocky_creek
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                            > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Sven Pfitt
                            Actually, most Industrial Controls use Zero Cross optocouplers to drive triacs to prevent EMI (Noise Generation). We use them in the US, they just aren t
                            Message 13 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                              Actually, most Industrial Controls use Zero Cross optocouplers to
                              drive triacs to prevent EMI (Noise Generation).

                              We use them in the US, they just aren't talked about. cheap Lamp
                              dimmers don't, more costly ones do, and use microprocessors to do
                              cycle dropping from what I read in trade magazines.

                              Sven

                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > One, I haven't made any comments about burst fire controlers because
                              > in the U.S. we have no need for such things, also we spell compleat
                              as
                              > complete.
                              >
                              > Two, you state in the book that a good amatuer collunm can be made
                              at
                              > 1 meter and 50mm diameter, and 90% can be obtained. Even at 1.5
                              meters
                              > and 75mm you can't get 90% from an insulated column with no induced
                              > reflux.I have yet to see one forumn member who has accomplished
                              this.
                              > Where is the meat?
                              >
                              > Rocky_creek
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > What part of "no induced internal reflux" don't you understand.
                              > > The fractionating still described by Mike Nixon in the complete
                              > distiller is
                              > > complete fiction.
                              > > No one discusses this because it does not work.
                              > >
                              > > Brendan Keith
                              > > =======================================
                              > > Dear Brendan,
                              > >
                              > > Please stop making such a noise at the back of the class, and pay
                              > attention!
                              > >
                              > > For a start, the book which I and Mike McCaw wrote is not "The
                              Complete
                              > > Distiller" but "The Compleat Distiller". You would know that if
                              you
                              > had
                              > > bought a copy and learned the facts about distillation.
                              > >
                              > > Secondly, nothing in that book is anything close to fiction, but
                              is
                              > > indisputable hard fact proved by extensive research and
                              established
                              > practice
                              > > in the distilling profession. This may challenge your cosy view
                              of the
                              > > cosmos, for which I'm sorry, but you will no doubt learn the truth
                              > when you
                              > > ascend to heaven and finally learn what you missed throughout your
                              > life.
                              > > Isn't it odd that many universities and colleges and now use
                              Chapter
                              > 8 of
                              > > that book as a text? My goodness, they must be idiots!
                              > >
                              > > It seems that nobody can take a rest from reading the posts sent
                              to
                              > > Distillers without learning that such rubbish is being posted. It
                              > used to be
                              > > such a good forum (sorry Harry, but it needs to be said). Please
                              > make sure
                              > > you have your facts right before publicly displaying your
                              ignorance.
                              > How
                              > > very strange it is that so many commercial distilleries now use
                              > equipment
                              > > designed and made by me and my colleagues. Is it perhaps because
                              > they have
                              > > found that this equipment is the most effective in producing
                              > results? Of
                              > > course, uneducated amateurs like yourself would not be able to
                              build
                              > such
                              > > equipment, even if led by the nose. Please don't bother anyone
                              with
                              > > protestations that this is a "flame". You brought it on your own
                              > head by
                              > > your ill-conceived post.
                              > >
                              > > Incidentally, your comments about burst fire controllers are also
                              > wide of
                              > > the mark. Add electronics to your list of things to study.
                              > >
                              > > Mike Nixon - too old and tired now to suffer fools gladly.
                              > >
                              > > PS. Wal (who is far from being a fool, and for whom I have the
                              > greatest
                              > > admiration!):
                              > > the fractionating still column described in The Compleat Distiller
                              > is 50mm
                              > > diameter, not length. The PDA-1 column is 305mm long. Initial
                              > testing with
                              > > the head we designed gave 86% solid with just 100mm column length,
                              > but we
                              > > wanted to be sure that users got 95-96% - which they do with
                              monotonous
                              > > regularity.
                              > >
                              >
                            • Robert Hubble
                              Ok, Sven, You ve aroused me enough to ask one of my perennial questions (and another one too), but it needs some background first. In the 1950 s when I was a
                              Message 14 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                Ok, Sven,

                                You've aroused me enough to ask one of my perennial questions (and another
                                one too), but it needs some background first.

                                In the 1950's when I was a teenager, I had enough electrical theory to
                                understand that you couldn't (reasonably) control a 2500-watt electric range
                                element with any kind of variable resistance (call it rheostat or
                                potentiometer), and I could understand our ancient kitchen range's method of
                                switching between, or the sum of, 2 heating coils of different wattages.

                                Sometime in the 50's as I recall, I started seeing ranges with ONE heating
                                coil and infinitely variable control, and I never understood what the
                                control mechanism was, especially since we didn't see SCR's
                                (silicon-controlled rectifiers) until much later, (hell, we didn't see
                                SILICON until later) and it was even longer before that technology evolved
                                into triacs.

                                I am an electrical engineer (or was) and so are many of my friends. I asked
                                a few on the phone last night, and the older ones all professed the same
                                uncertainly, but all had thought about it.

                                My first question: what technology did the electric ranges of the 1950's use
                                to gain infinite control over 220V, 2500W single element burners?

                                My second question arises from having recently replaced a heater element on
                                a very new kitchen range, during which process I got a chance to examine the
                                burner controllers, which I assume are triac technology, work nicely,
                                involve no obvious heat-sinking, and don't seem to generate untoward
                                electrical noise. Checking appliance parts on the web, these can be had for
                                about $16 US. Wiring is easy; 2 wires raw 220V in, 2 wires controlled 2500W
                                out to load.

                                My second question is: why is no-one using these controllers for stills?

                                Zymurgy Bob, a simple, but troubled, potstiller




                                >From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98@...>
                                >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: [Distillers] Re: Calm down children!
                                >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:49:42 -0000
                                >
                                >Actually, most Industrial Controls use Zero Cross optocouplers to
                                >drive triacs to prevent EMI (Noise Generation).
                                >
                                >We use them in the US, they just aren't talked about. cheap Lamp
                                >dimmers don't, more costly ones do, and use microprocessors to do
                                >cycle dropping from what I read in trade magazines.
                                >
                                >Sven
                                >
                                >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@...>
                                >wrote:
                                > >
                                > > One, I haven't made any comments about burst fire controlers because
                                > > in the U.S. we have no need for such things, also we spell compleat
                                >as
                                > > complete.
                                > >
                                > > Two, you state in the book that a good amatuer collunm can be made
                                >at
                                > > 1 meter and 50mm diameter, and 90% can be obtained. Even at 1.5
                                >meters
                                > > and 75mm you can't get 90% from an insulated column with no induced
                                > > reflux.I have yet to see one forumn member who has accomplished
                                >this.
                                > > Where is the meat?
                                > >
                                > > Rocky_creek
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > What part of "no induced internal reflux" don't you understand.
                                > > > The fractionating still described by Mike Nixon in the complete
                                > > distiller is
                                > > > complete fiction.
                                > > > No one discusses this because it does not work.
                                > > >
                                > > > Brendan Keith
                                > > > =======================================
                                > > > Dear Brendan,
                                > > >
                                > > > Please stop making such a noise at the back of the class, and pay
                                > > attention!
                                > > >
                                > > > For a start, the book which I and Mike McCaw wrote is not "The
                                >Complete
                                > > > Distiller" but "The Compleat Distiller". You would know that if
                                >you
                                > > had
                                > > > bought a copy and learned the facts about distillation.
                                > > >
                                > > > Secondly, nothing in that book is anything close to fiction, but
                                >is
                                > > > indisputable hard fact proved by extensive research and
                                >established
                                > > practice
                                > > > in the distilling profession. This may challenge your cosy view
                                >of the
                                > > > cosmos, for which I'm sorry, but you will no doubt learn the truth
                                > > when you
                                > > > ascend to heaven and finally learn what you missed throughout your
                                > > life.
                                > > > Isn't it odd that many universities and colleges and now use
                                >Chapter
                                > > 8 of
                                > > > that book as a text? My goodness, they must be idiots!
                                > > >
                                > > > It seems that nobody can take a rest from reading the posts sent
                                >to
                                > > > Distillers without learning that such rubbish is being posted. It
                                > > used to be
                                > > > such a good forum (sorry Harry, but it needs to be said). Please
                                > > make sure
                                > > > you have your facts right before publicly displaying your
                                >ignorance.
                                > > How
                                > > > very strange it is that so many commercial distilleries now use
                                > > equipment
                                > > > designed and made by me and my colleagues. Is it perhaps because
                                > > they have
                                > > > found that this equipment is the most effective in producing
                                > > results? Of
                                > > > course, uneducated amateurs like yourself would not be able to
                                >build
                                > > such
                                > > > equipment, even if led by the nose. Please don't bother anyone
                                >with
                                > > > protestations that this is a "flame". You brought it on your own
                                > > head by
                                > > > your ill-conceived post.
                                > > >
                                > > > Incidentally, your comments about burst fire controllers are also
                                > > wide of
                                > > > the mark. Add electronics to your list of things to study.
                                > > >
                                > > > Mike Nixon - too old and tired now to suffer fools gladly.
                                > > >
                                > > > PS. Wal (who is far from being a fool, and for whom I have the
                                > > greatest
                                > > > admiration!):
                                > > > the fractionating still column described in The Compleat Distiller
                                > > is 50mm
                                > > > diameter, not length. The PDA-1 column is 305mm long. Initial
                                > > testing with
                                > > > the head we designed gave 86% solid with just 100mm column length,
                                > > but we
                                > > > wanted to be sure that users got 95-96% - which they do with
                                >monotonous
                                > > > regularity.
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

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                              • Murphy-Marsh, Leigh
                                Christ people. Everyone take a damn chill pill would you. It s degrading into a problematic bun fight and that s not what this group is about. I think this
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                  Christ people. Everyone take a damn chill pill would you.
                                  It's degrading into a problematic bun fight and that's not what this
                                  group is about.
                                  I think this dissertation has had it's life in the sun.

                                  Rocky_creek mate, can you please describe your problem in detail and
                                  provide a good description of your setup and how you run it.
                                  If you find something incorrect about someones writings point it out
                                  here in this group as most of the writers of these compendiums are
                                  members. It can then either be corrected or explained to you so it's
                                  better understood. If you find a genuine mistake in their books most
                                  writers would most likely be glad of your input in pointing it out to
                                  them.
                                  Seriously mate, there are some smart cookies here that'll solve whatever
                                  problems you may have with your gear.
                                  Just try again mate.
                                  Good luck,
                                  Leigh

                                  This message and any attached files may contain information that is confidential and/or subject of legal privilege intended only for use by the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any dissemination, copying or use of this message or attachment is strictly forbidden, as is the disclosure of the information therein. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately and delete the message.
                                • Brendan Keith
                                  1. It s called an inifite switch. There s a bimetal strip inside the control package. It is in parallel with the load and has a contact which switches both
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                    1. It's called an inifite switch. There's a bimetal strip inside the
                                    control package. It is in parallel with the load and has a contact which
                                    switches both itself and the load on and off. When it's cold, the switch is
                                    closed, conducting current. The strip heats up and opens the switch, cools,
                                    closes, etc.

                                    The interval is determined by the dial position which varies the distance
                                    between contacts. If you substitute a lamp for the element, you'll see it
                                    switch on and off every few seconds with varying duty times.

                                    See http://www.appliance411.com/links/jump.cgi?ID=303

                                    2. Perhaps it uses long duty cycles which are inappropriate for a still.
                                    Please post a manufacturer and part number and others may be able to
                                    investigate.



                                    --
                                    Brendan Keith
                                    bkeith@...


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                                    Behalf Of Robert Hubble
                                    Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 12:08 PM
                                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Calm down children!


                                    ...

                                    My first question: what technology did the electric ranges of the 1950's use
                                    to gain infinite control over 220V, 2500W single element burners?

                                    My second question arises from having recently replaced a heater element on
                                    a very new kitchen range, during which process I got a chance to examine the
                                    burner controllers, which I assume are triac technology, work nicely,
                                    involve no obvious heat-sinking, and don't seem to generate untoward
                                    electrical noise. Checking appliance parts on the web, these can be had for
                                    about $16 US. Wiring is easy; 2 wires raw 220V in, 2 wires controlled 2500W
                                    out to load.

                                    My second question is: why is no-one using these controllers for stills?
                                  • Brendan Keith
                                    Infinite switch. -- Brendan Keith bkeith@sympatico.ca ... From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Brendan Keith Sent:
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                      Infinite switch.

                                      --
                                      Brendan Keith
                                      bkeith@...


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                                      Behalf Of Brendan Keith
                                      Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 12:57 PM
                                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Calm down children!


                                      1. It's called an inifite switch.
                                    • Larry Johnson
                                      dear bob I dont know where u are from...QueensLand i assume...u been bendin too many bananas mate Robert Hubble wrote: Ok, Sven,
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                        dear bob

                                        I dont know where u are from...QueensLand i assume...u been bendin' too many bananas mate

                                        Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                                        Ok, Sven,

                                        You've aroused me enough to ask one of my perennial questions (and another
                                        one too), but it needs some background first.

                                        In the 1950's when I was a teenager, I had enough electrical theory to
                                        understand that you couldn't (reasonably) control a 2500-watt electric range
                                        element with any kind of variable resistance (call it rheostat or
                                        potentiometer), and I could understand our ancient kitchen range's method of
                                        switching between, or the sum of, 2 heating coils of different wattages.

                                        Sometime in the 50's as I recall, I started seeing ranges with ONE heating
                                        coil and infinitely variable control, and I never understood what the
                                        control mechanism was, especially since we didn't see SCR's
                                        (silicon-controlled rectifiers) until much later, (hell, we didn't see
                                        SILICON until later) and it was even longer before that technology evolved
                                        into triacs.

                                        I am an electrical engineer (or was) and so are many of my friends. I asked
                                        a few on the phone last night, and the older ones all professed the same
                                        uncertainly, but all had thought about it.

                                        My first question: what technology did the electric ranges of the 1950's use
                                        to gain infinite control over 220V, 2500W single element burners?

                                        My second question arises from having recently replaced a heater element on
                                        a very new kitchen range, during which process I got a chance to examine the
                                        burner controllers, which I assume are triac technology, work nicely,
                                        involve no obvious heat-sinking, and don't seem to generate untoward
                                        electrical noise. Checking appliance parts on the web, these can be had for
                                        about $16 US. Wiring is easy; 2 wires raw 220V in, 2 wires controlled 2500W
                                        out to load.

                                        My second question is: why is no-one using these controllers for stills?

                                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple, but troubled, potstiller




                                        >From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98@...>
                                        >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Subject: [Distillers] Re: Calm down children!
                                        >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:49:42 -0000
                                        >
                                        >Actually, most Industrial Controls use Zero Cross optocouplers to
                                        >drive triacs to prevent EMI (Noise Generation).
                                        >
                                        >We use them in the US, they just aren't talked about. cheap Lamp
                                        >dimmers don't, more costly ones do, and use microprocessors to do
                                        >cycle dropping from what I read in trade magazines.
                                        >
                                        >Sven
                                        >
                                        >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@...>
                                        >wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > One, I haven't made any comments about burst fire controlers because
                                        > > in the U.S. we have no need for such things, also we spell compleat
                                        >as
                                        > > complete.
                                        > >
                                        > > Two, you state in the book that a good amatuer collunm can be made
                                        >at
                                        > > 1 meter and 50mm diameter, and 90% can be obtained. Even at 1.5
                                        >meters
                                        > > and 75mm you can't get 90% from an insulated column with no induced
                                        > > reflux.I have yet to see one forumn member who has accomplished
                                        >this.
                                        > > Where is the meat?
                                        > >
                                        > > Rocky_creek
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@>
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > What part of "no induced internal reflux" don't you understand.
                                        > > > The fractionating still described by Mike Nixon in the complete
                                        > > distiller is
                                        > > > complete fiction.
                                        > > > No one discusses this because it does not work.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Brendan Keith
                                        > > > =======================================
                                        > > > Dear Brendan,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Please stop making such a noise at the back of the class, and pay
                                        > > attention!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > For a start, the book which I and Mike McCaw wrote is not "The
                                        >Complete
                                        > > > Distiller" but "The Compleat Distiller". You would know that if
                                        >you
                                        > > had
                                        > > > bought a copy and learned the facts about distillation.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Secondly, nothing in that book is anything close to fiction, but
                                        >is
                                        > > > indisputable hard fact proved by extensive research and
                                        >established
                                        > > practice
                                        > > > in the distilling profession. This may challenge your cosy view
                                        >of the
                                        > > > cosmos, for which I'm sorry, but you will no doubt learn the truth
                                        > > when you
                                        > > > ascend to heaven and finally learn what you missed throughout your
                                        > > life.
                                        > > > Isn't it odd that many universities and colleges and now use
                                        >Chapter
                                        > > 8 of
                                        > > > that book as a text? My goodness, they must be idiots!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > It seems that nobody can take a rest from reading the posts sent
                                        >to
                                        > > > Distillers without learning that such rubbish is being posted. It
                                        > > used to be
                                        > > > such a good forum (sorry Harry, but it needs to be said). Please
                                        > > make sure
                                        > > > you have your facts right before publicly displaying your
                                        >ignorance.
                                        > > How
                                        > > > very strange it is that so many commercial distilleries now use
                                        > > equipment
                                        > > > designed and made by me and my colleagues. Is it perhaps because
                                        > > they have
                                        > > > found that this equipment is the most effective in producing
                                        > > results? Of
                                        > > > course, uneducated amateurs like yourself would not be able to
                                        >build
                                        > > such
                                        > > > equipment, even if led by the nose. Please don't bother anyone
                                        >with
                                        > > > protestations that this is a "flame". You brought it on your own
                                        > > head by
                                        > > > your ill-conceived post.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Incidentally, your comments about burst fire controllers are also
                                        > > wide of
                                        > > > the mark. Add electronics to your list of things to study.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Mike Nixon - too old and tired now to suffer fools gladly.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > PS. Wal (who is far from being a fool, and for whom I have the
                                        > > greatest
                                        > > > admiration!):
                                        > > > the fractionating still column described in The Compleat Distiller
                                        > > is 50mm
                                        > > > diameter, not length. The PDA-1 column is 305mm long. Initial
                                        > > testing with
                                        > > > the head we designed gave 86% solid with just 100mm column length,
                                        > > but we
                                        > > > wanted to be sure that users got 95-96% - which they do with
                                        >monotonous
                                        > > > regularity.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >

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                                      • Robert Hubble
                                        Brendan, Makes good sense to me, and, as you say, the period may be difficult for refluxers to deal with. For us potstillers, however.... (Anyway, I use
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                          Brendan,

                                          Makes good sense to me, and, as you say, the period may be difficult for
                                          refluxers to deal with. For us potstillers, however.... (Anyway, I use
                                          propane)

                                          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                                          >From: "Brendan Keith" <bkeith@...>
                                          >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          >To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          >Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Calm down children!
                                          >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:56:42 -0500
                                          >
                                          >1. It's called an inifite switch. There's a bimetal strip inside the
                                          >control package. It is in parallel with the load and has a contact which
                                          >switches both itself and the load on and off. When it's cold, the switch
                                          >is
                                          >closed, conducting current. The strip heats up and opens the switch,
                                          >cools,
                                          >closes, etc.
                                          >
                                          >The interval is determined by the dial position which varies the distance
                                          >between contacts. If you substitute a lamp for the element, you'll see it
                                          >switch on and off every few seconds with varying duty times.
                                          >
                                          >See http://www.appliance411.com/links/jump.cgi?ID=303
                                          >
                                          >2. Perhaps it uses long duty cycles which are inappropriate for a still.
                                          >Please post a manufacturer and part number and others may be able to
                                          >investigate.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >--
                                          >Brendan Keith
                                          >bkeith@...
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                          >From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                                          >Behalf Of Robert Hubble
                                          >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 12:08 PM
                                          >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          >Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Calm down children!
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >...
                                          >
                                          >My first question: what technology did the electric ranges of the 1950's
                                          >use
                                          >to gain infinite control over 220V, 2500W single element burners?
                                          >
                                          >My second question arises from having recently replaced a heater element on
                                          >a very new kitchen range, during which process I got a chance to examine
                                          >the
                                          >burner controllers, which I assume are triac technology, work nicely,
                                          >involve no obvious heat-sinking, and don't seem to generate untoward
                                          >electrical noise. Checking appliance parts on the web, these can be had
                                          >for
                                          >about $16 US. Wiring is easy; 2 wires raw 220V in, 2 wires controlled
                                          >2500W
                                          >out to load.
                                          >
                                          >My second question is: why is no-one using these controllers for stills?
                                          >
                                          >

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                                        • Robert Hubble
                                          Larry, I m from the upper-left US, and I think my banana came pre-bent. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller ... ....clip....
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                            Larry,

                                            I'm from the upper-left US, and I think my banana came pre-bent.

                                            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                                            >From: Larry Johnson <homadechilly@...>
                                            >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                            >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                            >Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Calm down children!
                                            >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:06:15 -0800 (PST)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > dear bob
                                            >
                                            > I dont know where u are from...QueensLand i assume...u been bendin' too
                                            >many bananas mate
                                            >
                                            >Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                                            > Ok, Sven,
                                            >
                                            >You've aroused me enough to ask one of my perennial questions (and another
                                            >one too), but it needs some background first.
                                            >
                                            ....clip....

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                                          • Andrew Bugal
                                            Don t worry Robert, after a recent hurricane here wiped out about 95% of Australia s banana crop, the benders have gone back to Tasmania where they originally
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                              Don't worry Robert, after a recent hurricane here wiped out about 95% of Australia's banana crop, the benders have gone back to Tasmania where they originally came from. (Actually, walking upright and wearing shoes was not in their comfort zone anyhow).

                                              Regards,

                                              bwyze

                                              Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                                              Larry,

                                              I'm from the upper-left US, and I think my banana came pre-bent.

                                              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                                              >From: Larry Johnson
                                              >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                              >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Calm down children!
                                              >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:06:15 -0800 (PST)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > dear bob
                                              >
                                              > I dont know where u are from...QueensLand i assume...u been bendin' too
                                              >many bananas mate
                                              >
                                              >Robert Hubble wrote:
                                              > Ok, Sven,
                                              >
                                              >You've aroused me enough to ask one of my perennial questions (and another
                                              >one too), but it needs some background first.
                                              >
                                              ....clip....

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                                            • Andrew Bugal
                                              Robert, My apologies. That mail was meant for Rocky Creek - not you. I clicked the wrong name on the reply to section. Regards, bwyze Robert Thomas
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                                Robert,

                                                My apologies. That mail was meant for Rocky Creek - not you. I clicked the wrong name on the reply to section.

                                                Regards,

                                                bwyze

                                                Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...> wrote:
                                                Hi Mike,
                                                good to see you wafting in like a breath of fresh air (or is that like
                                                a dragon's belch?).
                                                I for one am sorry you feel the way you do about the forum: well, not
                                                so much the way you feel about it, more the course of action you have
                                                taken: to whit, silence.
                                                as with any noisy "class" there are still some listening and learning.
                                                When the "teachers" leave the room, there are few gems left that are
                                                worth listening for.
                                                Cheers,
                                                Rob.


                                                --- Mike Nixon wrote lots of stuff.




                                                Cheers,
                                                Rob.

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                                              • Harry
                                                ... 1950 s use ... Bi-metal strip contact/breaker, commonly called an infinite switch . Two dissimilar metals joined together back-to-back to form one unit
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Mar 31, 2006
                                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Hubble" <zymurgybob@...>
                                                  wrote:

                                                  >
                                                  > My first question: what technology did the electric ranges of the
                                                  1950's use
                                                  > to gain infinite control over 220V, 2500W single element burners?


                                                  ------------------------
                                                  Bi-metal strip contact/breaker, commonly called an 'infinite
                                                  switch'. Two dissimilar metals joined together back-to-back to form
                                                  one unit with a differential expansion rating, and it will bend if
                                                  there is a temperature change. When cool, the strip will put the
                                                  mains contacts in a 'make' condition, allowing current to flow to
                                                  the stove element. Current also flows through the bi-metal strip,
                                                  which now heats up and bends, due to differential expansion,
                                                  and 'breaks' the contacts. The degree of bending necessary
                                                  to 'break' the contacts is controlled by a cam on the dial shaft,
                                                  which users can set by turning the dial. In principle, they work
                                                  fine. The problem for our application is the time taken for the bi-
                                                  metal strip to cool sufficiently to 'make' the contacts. There is
                                                  no way to control that time lag, and thus we get 'surge-boiling' of
                                                  our still, which first overdrives, then collapses, the distilling
                                                  (separation) action in the packed column.

                                                  In simple internal element fired potstills it is less critical, but
                                                  still undesirable to have lapses in power applied of some 30+
                                                  seconds. Non-element potstills will work ok if used on a stovetop,
                                                  due to the very minor fluctuation of heat in the element. Think pot
                                                  of boiling/simmering water. However it won't do for a stovetop
                                                  packed-column still. The action is destroyed, as mentioned before.
                                                  ------------------------


                                                  >
                                                  > My second question arises from having recently replaced a heater
                                                  element on
                                                  > a very new kitchen range, during which process I got a chance to
                                                  examine the
                                                  > burner controllers, which I assume are triac technology, work
                                                  nicely,
                                                  > involve no obvious heat-sinking, and don't seem to generate
                                                  untoward
                                                  > electrical noise. Checking appliance parts on the web, these can
                                                  be had for
                                                  > about $16 US. Wiring is easy; 2 wires raw 220V in, 2 wires
                                                  controlled 2500W
                                                  > out to load.
                                                  >
                                                  > My second question is: why is no-one using these controllers for
                                                  stills?
                                                  >
                                                  > Zymurgy Bob, a simple, but troubled, potstiller


                                                  ------------------------
                                                  Not triac technology, still the bi-metal strip setup.

                                                  The trick for us distillers is to find a way of controlling
                                                  the 'rate' at which the power is switched on-off-on. If we can
                                                  reduce it to something less than 1 second, there will be no
                                                  noticeable difference in the distilling action. It will appear as
                                                  if the current is continuous. You might be interested in the
                                                  following dialog I picked up some years ago from rec. crafts.
                                                  brewing.





                                                  <extract>
                                                  Junior has asked me to help him with his preschool science project.
                                                  He wants to build an infinite power control for our 240V electric
                                                  heating element clad brew kettle, similar to a Bruheat Boiler.
                                                  <<<<

                                                  Oohhweee, preschool and 240V already!


                                                  We want to be able to have infinite power settings to control the
                                                  vigor of the boil. I ran across an SSR that is an analog power
                                                  controller that produces a variable output from 0% to 100% for 240V
                                                  up to 15A...........The relay controls the power output with a 3V to
                                                  10V DC input. How can I make this thing work for what I want it to
                                                  do? What type of part can I use to vary the DC input voltage? How
                                                  are the 2-120V lines wired to the relay?
                                                  <<<<

                                                  I am not familiar with the relay you mention above, however, what
                                                  follows is for the more common solid state relays:


                                                  The relay is basically an on/off device. You will find that there
                                                  is no difference in the operation of the relay with 3V or 10V
                                                  input. This is merely the range of control input needed to turn the
                                                  relay on. Since the relay is a solid state device, you may operate
                                                  it at a rapid rate to switch the power on/off.





                                                  Or, is there an easier/better way to control the 240V feeding the
                                                  electric heating element? I have tried using an electric stove top
                                                  burner controller, but the on/off cycles produced by the controller
                                                  are spaced too far apart to produce a continuous and even power
                                                  level and boil.
                                                  <<<<


                                                  Correct, and the temperature variations will put much stress on the
                                                  element. What you need is to switch on/off at a rapid rate, I use
                                                  about 1/2 second as a good rule of thumb. This gives very smooth
                                                  control and because of the mass of the element, can be thought of as
                                                  continuous analog control much as a light bulb is being powered
                                                  on/off each 1/60 of a second but appears to be on continuously.
                                                  Actually it is, the filament cannot cool off in the 1/60 second
                                                  time, so the bulb is lighted all the time even though the power is
                                                  removed 60 times each second.


                                                  You can use a 555 IC timer chip in a circuit to vary the on/off from
                                                  0 to 100% with a 1/2 second cycle time. It is a simple circuit that
                                                  I have used in several controllers. You will find the circuit
                                                  in "THE 555 TIMER APPLICATIONS SOURCEBOOK" by Howard M. Berlin
                                                  published by Howard W. Sams & Co., Inc. page 32.


                                                  The output of the 555 drives the relay, the relay is wired up just
                                                  like a simple light switch, in series with the hot (black) wire to
                                                  the load. The solid state relay provides isolation between the
                                                  control and output terminals, so the low voltage control circuit is
                                                  completely protected from the AC powerline.
                                                  </extract>


                                                  Slainte!
                                                  regards Harry
                                                • Robert Hubble
                                                  Bwyze, To quote my sister, Not to worry and get a wrinkle . I m REAL slow to take offense at news-list kidding and even more serious offenses. There are too
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Apr 1, 2006
                                                    Bwyze,

                                                    To quote my sister, "Not to worry and get a wrinkle". I'm REAL slow to take
                                                    offense at news-list kidding and even more serious offenses. There are too
                                                    many ways to puff a harmless mistake or an offhand comment into a flame war.

                                                    Do I infer from all this that a banana-bender is a Tasmanian agricultiral
                                                    guest-worker? If so, it's sure as hell not the worst thing I've been
                                                    called.

                                                    ZYmurgy Bob, a simple potstiller



                                                    >From: Andrew Bugal <bwyze44@...>
                                                    >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >Subject: Re: [Distillers] Calm down children!
                                                    >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:34:45 +1000 (EST)
                                                    >
                                                    >Robert,
                                                    >
                                                    > My apologies. That mail was meant for Rocky Creek - not you. I clicked
                                                    >the wrong name on the reply to section.
                                                    >
                                                    > Regards,
                                                    >
                                                    > bwyze
                                                    >
                                                    >Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@...> wrote:
                                                    > Hi Mike,
                                                    >good to see you wafting in like a breath of fresh air (or is that like
                                                    >a dragon's belch?).
                                                    >I for one am sorry you feel the way you do about the forum: well, not
                                                    >so much the way you feel about it, more the course of action you have
                                                    >taken: to whit, silence.
                                                    >as with any noisy "class" there are still some listening and learning.
                                                    >When the "teachers" leave the room, there are few gems left that are
                                                    >worth listening for.
                                                    >Cheers,
                                                    >Rob.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >--- Mike Nixon wrote lots of stuff.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >Cheers,
                                                    >Rob.
                                                    >
                                                    >__________________________________________________
                                                    >Do You Yahoo!?
                                                    >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                    >http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                                    >FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >---------------------------------
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                                                    > Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas.
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                                                  • Robert Hubble
                                                    Harry, Thank you and all the others for answering my 50-year-old question about the bi-metal infinite switch. Although I currently use propane to power a
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Apr 1, 2006
                                                      Harry,

                                                      Thank you and all the others for answering my 50-year-old question about the
                                                      bi-metal infinite switch. Although I currently use propane to power a
                                                      potstill, I am looking at building a continuous-run reflux still after the
                                                      one on Tony's site, so I MAY be in the market for building a good power
                                                      controller.

                                                      I have looked at the 555 or counter controlled SSR as mental exercises
                                                      (while making long drives) for a long time, but I think push is coming to
                                                      shove pretty soon now. I'm a long-time user of the Howard W. Sams
                                                      literature, from the Sam's Fotofact "How to repair your electronic whatever"
                                                      of the 1950's to the later cookbooks they do so well. I even worked with a
                                                      woman who wrote one of the Sam's how to UNIX books. After reading this, I
                                                      went straight to the cookbook section of my electronics library, and the 555
                                                      cookbook was gone, loaned out, I guess, or maybe in a project box in the
                                                      garage.

                                                      Anyway, all this drove me to make a parts search for the solid-state-relay,
                                                      and Digikey is my search-engine of choice. The Potter-Brumfield SSR-240D25,
                                                      at $38.62 US, is opto-coupled, zero-crossing, 280V and 25A relay. For those
                                                      who do not know, ordering almost anything through Digikey (www.digikey.com)
                                                      is pretty easy.

                                                      Thanks for the answer, and thanks for getting me thinking about the
                                                      vodka-fuel still again.

                                                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                                                      >From: "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
                                                      >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >Subject: [Distillers] For Rob - Switching (was) Re: Calm down children!
                                                      >Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 01:57:35 -0000
                                                      >
                                                      >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Hubble" <zymurgybob@...>
                                                      >wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > My first question: what technology did the electric ranges of the
                                                      >1950's use
                                                      > > to gain infinite control over 220V, 2500W single element burners?
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >------------------------
                                                      >Bi-metal strip contact/breaker, commonly called an 'infinite
                                                      >switch'. Two dissimilar metals joined together back-to-back to form
                                                      >one unit with a differential expansion rating, and it will bend if
                                                      >there is a temperature change. When cool, the strip will put the
                                                      >mains contacts in a 'make' condition, allowing current to flow to
                                                      >the stove element. Current also flows through the bi-metal strip,
                                                      >which now heats up and bends, due to differential expansion,
                                                      >and 'breaks' the contacts. The degree of bending necessary
                                                      >to 'break' the contacts is controlled by a cam on the dial shaft,
                                                      >which users can set by turning the dial. In principle, they work
                                                      >fine. The problem for our application is the time taken for the bi-
                                                      >metal strip to cool sufficiently to 'make' the contacts. There is
                                                      >no way to control that time lag, and thus we get 'surge-boiling' of
                                                      >our still, which first overdrives, then collapses, the distilling
                                                      >(separation) action in the packed column.
                                                      >
                                                      >In simple internal element fired potstills it is less critical, but
                                                      >still undesirable to have lapses in power applied of some 30+
                                                      >seconds. Non-element potstills will work ok if used on a stovetop,
                                                      >due to the very minor fluctuation of heat in the element. Think pot
                                                      >of boiling/simmering water. However it won't do for a stovetop
                                                      >packed-column still. The action is destroyed, as mentioned before.
                                                      >------------------------
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > My second question arises from having recently replaced a heater
                                                      >element on
                                                      > > a very new kitchen range, during which process I got a chance to
                                                      >examine the
                                                      > > burner controllers, which I assume are triac technology, work
                                                      >nicely,
                                                      > > involve no obvious heat-sinking, and don't seem to generate
                                                      >untoward
                                                      > > electrical noise. Checking appliance parts on the web, these can
                                                      >be had for
                                                      > > about $16 US. Wiring is easy; 2 wires raw 220V in, 2 wires
                                                      >controlled 2500W
                                                      > > out to load.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > My second question is: why is no-one using these controllers for
                                                      >stills?
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple, but troubled, potstiller
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >------------------------
                                                      >Not triac technology, still the bi-metal strip setup.
                                                      >
                                                      >The trick for us distillers is to find a way of controlling
                                                      >the 'rate' at which the power is switched on-off-on. If we can
                                                      >reduce it to something less than 1 second, there will be no
                                                      >noticeable difference in the distilling action. It will appear as
                                                      >if the current is continuous. You might be interested in the
                                                      >following dialog I picked up some years ago from rec. crafts.
                                                      >brewing.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      ><extract>
                                                      >Junior has asked me to help him with his preschool science project.
                                                      >He wants to build an infinite power control for our 240V electric
                                                      >heating element clad brew kettle, similar to a Bruheat Boiler.
                                                      ><<<<
                                                      >
                                                      >Oohhweee, preschool and 240V already!
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >We want to be able to have infinite power settings to control the
                                                      >vigor of the boil. I ran across an SSR that is an analog power
                                                      >controller that produces a variable output from 0% to 100% for 240V
                                                      >up to 15A...........The relay controls the power output with a 3V to
                                                      >10V DC input. How can I make this thing work for what I want it to
                                                      >do? What type of part can I use to vary the DC input voltage? How
                                                      >are the 2-120V lines wired to the relay?
                                                      ><<<<
                                                      >
                                                      >I am not familiar with the relay you mention above, however, what
                                                      >follows is for the more common solid state relays:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >The relay is basically an on/off device. You will find that there
                                                      >is no difference in the operation of the relay with 3V or 10V
                                                      >input. This is merely the range of control input needed to turn the
                                                      >relay on. Since the relay is a solid state device, you may operate
                                                      >it at a rapid rate to switch the power on/off.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >Or, is there an easier/better way to control the 240V feeding the
                                                      >electric heating element? I have tried using an electric stove top
                                                      >burner controller, but the on/off cycles produced by the controller
                                                      >are spaced too far apart to produce a continuous and even power
                                                      >level and boil.
                                                      ><<<<
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >Correct, and the temperature variations will put much stress on the
                                                      >element. What you need is to switch on/off at a rapid rate, I use
                                                      >about 1/2 second as a good rule of thumb. This gives very smooth
                                                      >control and because of the mass of the element, can be thought of as
                                                      >continuous analog control much as a light bulb is being powered
                                                      >on/off each 1/60 of a second but appears to be on continuously.
                                                      >Actually it is, the filament cannot cool off in the 1/60 second
                                                      >time, so the bulb is lighted all the time even though the power is
                                                      >removed 60 times each second.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >You can use a 555 IC timer chip in a circuit to vary the on/off from
                                                      >0 to 100% with a 1/2 second cycle time. It is a simple circuit that
                                                      >I have used in several controllers. You will find the circuit
                                                      >in "THE 555 TIMER APPLICATIONS SOURCEBOOK" by Howard M. Berlin
                                                      >published by Howard W. Sams & Co., Inc. page 32.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >The output of the 555 drives the relay, the relay is wired up just
                                                      >like a simple light switch, in series with the hot (black) wire to
                                                      >the load. The solid state relay provides isolation between the
                                                      >control and output terminals, so the low voltage control circuit is
                                                      >completely protected from the AC powerline.
                                                      ></extract>
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >Slainte!
                                                      >regards Harry
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >

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                                                    • Harry
                                                      ... I have looked at the 555 or counter controlled SSR as mental exercises ... coming to ... whatever ... worked with a ... this, I ... and the 555 ... in the
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Apr 1, 2006
                                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Hubble" <zymurgybob@...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Harry,
                                                        >
                                                        I have looked at the 555 or counter controlled SSR as mental
                                                        exercises
                                                        > (while making long drives) for a long time, but I think push is
                                                        coming to
                                                        > shove pretty soon now. I'm a long-time user of the Howard W. Sams
                                                        > literature, from the Sam's Fotofact "How to repair your electronic
                                                        whatever"
                                                        > of the 1950's to the later cookbooks they do so well. I even
                                                        worked with a
                                                        > woman who wrote one of the Sam's how to UNIX books. After reading
                                                        this, I
                                                        > went straight to the cookbook section of my electronics library,
                                                        and the 555
                                                        > cookbook was gone, loaned out, I guess, or maybe in a project box
                                                        in the
                                                        > garage.
                                                        >
                                                        > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                                                        Bob, grab this & save it. It may come in handy.
                                                        http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555/555.html


                                                        Slainte!
                                                        regards Harry
                                                      • waljaco
                                                        If you place thermometers at say 250mm intervals up your column you will see what is going on in practice. Depending on the nature of your packing (no
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Apr 2, 2006
                                                          If you place thermometers at say 250mm intervals up your column you
                                                          will see what is going on in practice.
                                                          Depending on the nature of your packing (no information provided) your
                                                          75mm might be causing channeling. You could build a glass column and
                                                          see what is happening and report on your practical experiments.
                                                          wal


                                                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > One, I haven't made any comments about burst fire controlers because
                                                          > in the U.S. we have no need for such things, also we spell compleat as
                                                          > complete.
                                                          >
                                                          > Two, you state in the book that a good amatuer collunm can be made at
                                                          > 1 meter and 50mm diameter, and 90% can be obtained. Even at 1.5 meters
                                                          > and 75mm you can't get 90% from an insulated column with no induced
                                                          > reflux.I have yet to see one forumn member who has accomplished this.
                                                          > Where is the meat?
                                                          >
                                                          > Rocky_creek
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@> wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rocky_creek1" <rocky_creek@>
                                                          > > wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > What part of "no induced internal reflux" don't you understand.
                                                          > > The fractionating still described by Mike Nixon in the complete
                                                          > distiller is
                                                          > > complete fiction.
                                                          > > No one discusses this because it does not work.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Brendan Keith
                                                          > > =======================================
                                                          > > Dear Brendan,
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Please stop making such a noise at the back of the class, and pay
                                                          > attention!
                                                          > >
                                                          > > For a start, the book which I and Mike McCaw wrote is not "The
                                                          Complete
                                                          > > Distiller" but "The Compleat Distiller". You would know that if you
                                                          > had
                                                          > > bought a copy and learned the facts about distillation.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Secondly, nothing in that book is anything close to fiction, but is
                                                          > > indisputable hard fact proved by extensive research and established
                                                          > practice
                                                          > > in the distilling profession. This may challenge your cosy view
                                                          of the
                                                          > > cosmos, for which I'm sorry, but you will no doubt learn the truth
                                                          > when you
                                                          > > ascend to heaven and finally learn what you missed throughout your
                                                          > life.
                                                          > > Isn't it odd that many universities and colleges and now use Chapter
                                                          > 8 of
                                                          > > that book as a text? My goodness, they must be idiots!
                                                          > >
                                                          > > It seems that nobody can take a rest from reading the posts sent to
                                                          > > Distillers without learning that such rubbish is being posted. It
                                                          > used to be
                                                          > > such a good forum (sorry Harry, but it needs to be said). Please
                                                          > make sure
                                                          > > you have your facts right before publicly displaying your ignorance.
                                                          > How
                                                          > > very strange it is that so many commercial distilleries now use
                                                          > equipment
                                                          > > designed and made by me and my colleagues. Is it perhaps because
                                                          > they have
                                                          > > found that this equipment is the most effective in producing
                                                          > results? Of
                                                          > > course, uneducated amateurs like yourself would not be able to build
                                                          > such
                                                          > > equipment, even if led by the nose. Please don't bother anyone with
                                                          > > protestations that this is a "flame". You brought it on your own
                                                          > head by
                                                          > > your ill-conceived post.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Incidentally, your comments about burst fire controllers are also
                                                          > wide of
                                                          > > the mark. Add electronics to your list of things to study.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Mike Nixon - too old and tired now to suffer fools gladly.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > PS. Wal (who is far from being a fool, and for whom I have the
                                                          > greatest
                                                          > > admiration!):
                                                          > > the fractionating still column described in The Compleat Distiller
                                                          > is 50mm
                                                          > > diameter, not length. The PDA-1 column is 305mm long. Initial
                                                          > testing with
                                                          > > the head we designed gave 86% solid with just 100mm column length,
                                                          > but we
                                                          > > wanted to be sure that users got 95-96% - which they do with
                                                          monotonous
                                                          > > regularity.
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                        • Sven Pfitt
                                                          Use the 555 link that others posted, and build a timer with a 1 second time interval. Use a comparitor with the - input feed by a 10K potentiometer wiper and
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Apr 3, 2006
                                                            Use the 555 link that others posted, and build a timer with a 1
                                                            second time interval.

                                                            Use a comparitor with the '-' input feed by a 10K potentiometer wiper
                                                            and a 4.7K resistor on each end (to VCC and GND).

                                                            Take the output of the 555 timer capacitor terminal and connect it to
                                                            the '+' terminal of the comparitor.

                                                            Take the output of the comparitor and use it to drive the SSR-240D25
                                                            (+ terminal to VCC, -terminal to the comparitor output). I recommend
                                                            running the 555 and comparitor circuits on about 12V.

                                                            You now have a burst fire controller with zero cross (minimal noise
                                                            generation). The comparitor will turn on when the setting sees the
                                                            ramp capacitor voltage above the potentiometer setting. The cap
                                                            voltage varies from 1/3 to 2/3VCC. The two resistors allow you to use
                                                            more of the ajustment range that if you simply attached the pot to
                                                            VCC and GND without them.

                                                            MOUSER has them (SSR-240D25) at a slightly lower price.

                                                            Sven
                                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Hubble" <zymurgybob@...>
                                                            wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Harry,
                                                            >
                                                            > Thank you and all the others for answering my 50-year-old question
                                                            about the
                                                            > bi-metal infinite switch. Although I currently use propane to power
                                                            a
                                                            > potstill, I am looking at building a continuous-run reflux still
                                                            after the
                                                            > one on Tony's site, so I MAY be in the market for building a good
                                                            power
                                                            > controller.
                                                            >
                                                            > I have looked at the 555 or counter controlled SSR as mental
                                                            exercises
                                                            > (while making long drives) for a long time, but I think push is
                                                            coming to
                                                            > shove pretty soon now. I'm a long-time user of the Howard W. Sams
                                                            > literature, from the Sam's Fotofact "How to repair your electronic
                                                            whatever"
                                                            > of the 1950's to the later cookbooks they do so well. I even
                                                            worked with a
                                                            > woman who wrote one of the Sam's how to UNIX books. After reading
                                                            this, I
                                                            > went straight to the cookbook section of my electronics library,
                                                            and the 555
                                                            > cookbook was gone, loaned out, I guess, or maybe in a project box
                                                            in the
                                                            > garage.
                                                            >
                                                            > Anyway, all this drove me to make a parts search for the solid-
                                                            state-relay,
                                                            > and Digikey is my search-engine of choice. The Potter-Brumfield
                                                            SSR-240D25,
                                                            > at $38.62 US, is opto-coupled, zero-crossing, 280V and 25A relay.
                                                            For those
                                                            > who do not know, ordering almost anything through Digikey
                                                            (www.digikey.com)
                                                            > is pretty easy.
                                                            >
                                                            > Thanks for the answer, and thanks for getting me thinking about the
                                                            > vodka-fuel still again.
                                                            >
                                                            > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                                                            >
                                                            ...snip...
                                                          • Robert Thomas
                                                            Wow! any chance of a diagram? Now, if you can just build the rest of the automatic cat sh*ts=cat burns device, I can stop hunting the net for solutions to my
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Apr 3, 2006
                                                              Wow!
                                                              any chance of a diagram?
                                                              Now, if you can just build the rest of the automatic "cat sh*ts=cat
                                                              burns" device, I can stop hunting the net for solutions to my
                                                              inhospitable garden problem (bigG).

                                                              Cheers
                                                              Rob.
                                                              p.s. Yes, Harry I'm still here, despite what I said.


                                                              --- Sven Pfitt <the_gimp98@...> wrote:

                                                              > Use the 555 link that others posted, and build a timer with a 1
                                                              > second time interval.
                                                              >
                                                              > Use a comparitor with the '-' input feed by a 10K potentiometer wiper
                                                              >
                                                              > and a 4.7K resistor on each end (to VCC and GND).
                                                              >
                                                              > Take the output of the 555 timer capacitor terminal and connect it to
                                                              >
                                                              > the '+' terminal of the comparitor.
                                                              >
                                                              > Take the output of the comparitor and use it to drive the SSR-240D25
                                                              > (+ terminal to VCC, -terminal to the comparitor output). I recommend
                                                              > running the 555 and comparitor circuits on about 12V.
                                                              >
                                                              > You now have a burst fire controller with zero cross (minimal noise
                                                              > generation). The comparitor will turn on when the setting sees the
                                                              > ramp capacitor voltage above the potentiometer setting. The cap
                                                              > voltage varies from 1/3 to 2/3VCC. The two resistors allow you to use
                                                              >
                                                              > more of the ajustment range that if you simply attached the pot to
                                                              > VCC and GND without them.
                                                              >
                                                              > MOUSER has them (SSR-240D25) at a slightly lower price.
                                                              >
                                                              > Sven
                                                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Hubble" <zymurgybob@...>
                                                              > wrote:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Harry,
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Thank you and all the others for answering my 50-year-old question
                                                              > about the
                                                              > > bi-metal infinite switch. Although I currently use propane to power
                                                              >
                                                              > a
                                                              > > potstill, I am looking at building a continuous-run reflux still
                                                              > after the
                                                              > > one on Tony's site, so I MAY be in the market for building a good
                                                              > power
                                                              > > controller.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > I have looked at the 555 or counter controlled SSR as mental
                                                              > exercises
                                                              > > (while making long drives) for a long time, but I think push is
                                                              > coming to
                                                              > > shove pretty soon now. I'm a long-time user of the Howard W. Sams
                                                              > > literature, from the Sam's Fotofact "How to repair your electronic
                                                              > whatever"
                                                              > > of the 1950's to the later cookbooks they do so well. I even
                                                              > worked with a
                                                              > > woman who wrote one of the Sam's how to UNIX books. After reading
                                                              > this, I
                                                              > > went straight to the cookbook section of my electronics library,
                                                              > and the 555
                                                              > > cookbook was gone, loaned out, I guess, or maybe in a project box
                                                              > in the
                                                              > > garage.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Anyway, all this drove me to make a parts search for the solid-
                                                              > state-relay,
                                                              > > and Digikey is my search-engine of choice. The Potter-Brumfield
                                                              > SSR-240D25,
                                                              > > at $38.62 US, is opto-coupled, zero-crossing, 280V and 25A relay.
                                                              > For those
                                                              > > who do not know, ordering almost anything through Digikey
                                                              > (www.digikey.com)
                                                              > > is pretty easy.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Thanks for the answer, and thanks for getting me thinking about the
                                                              >
                                                              > > vodka-fuel still again.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                                                              > >
                                                              > ...snip...
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >


                                                              Cheers,
                                                              Rob.

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