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Re: Column Head - Cooling Portion- Question

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  • Harry
    ... variable ... Copper scrubbers will work a lot better than Rashig Rings. Just make sure they re true copper, not just coated. Test em with a magnet.
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 2, 2006
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "crackher_crackher"
      <caschera@...> wrote:
      >
      > Perfect thanks a lot Harry!!
      >
      > are there any other tricks that you would relay to a greenhorn..
      > i am think about using turbo yeast 48 fermented to ~18% based on a
      > straight forward sucrose wash. I guess the only remaining
      variable
      > is that i am planning on using scrubbers as a column packing...the
      > supplier up here is out of Raschig Rings anyways.
      >


      Copper scrubbers will work a lot better than Rashig Rings. Just
      make sure they're 'true' copper, not just coated. Test 'em with a
      magnet. If it sticks, they're coated. Then cut 1 strand with a
      knife & look at the cross-section. Some real cheapies are coated or
      coloured plastic.


      Slainte!
      regards Harry
    • Harry
      ... The one thing I don t like about that type of design is there s only 1 outlet to atmosphere, namely the take-off valve, and that is closable. If it is left
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 2, 2006
        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ruggershiner" <mnelson@...> wrote:
        >
        > I agree with everything that you said, but...
        >
        > He could close the top, leaving the takeoff valve open. This way he
        > could make the adjustments that you suggested (with feedback) until
        > balance could be achieved. This will work, my rig is was set up this
        > way.
        >
        > But...Don't forget to open the valve!!!
        >
        > Mark
        >


        The one thing I don't like about that type of design is there's only 1
        outlet to atmosphere, namely the take-off valve, and that is closable.
        If it is left closed during boilup for equilibration purposes, you
        have nowhere for the heated expanding air to be driven out. Thus an
        over-pressure situation is possible.

        Converse to that, when the run is finished, an unthinking person could
        close off the outlet. What happens when the still cools? Implosion.

        Either of these situations are easily avoided by a vent to atmosphere
        at the column top, either leave it open, or at least put a hole in it
        if it's capped.


        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • Lindsay Williams
        Hear, hear. Why tempt fate for no good reason? Cheers, Lindsay.
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 2, 2006
          Hear, hear. Why tempt fate for no good reason?

          Cheers,
          Lindsay.

          >
          > The one thing I don't like about that type of design is there's only 1
          > outlet to atmosphere, namely the take-off valve, and that is closable.
          > If it is left closed during boilup for equilibration purposes, you
          > have nowhere for the heated expanding air to be driven out. Thus an
          > over-pressure situation is possible.
          >
          > Converse to that, when the run is finished, an unthinking person could
          > close off the outlet. What happens when the still cools? Implosion.
          >
          > Either of these situations are easily avoided by a vent to atmosphere
          > at the column top, either leave it open, or at least put a hole in it
          > if it's capped.
          >
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          >
        • Lindsay Williams
          Hard to go wrong with the turbo and sugar. Just follow the instructions and you will find about 3 days will do it. I just thrash the water/sugar with a paddle
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 2, 2006
            Hard to go wrong with the turbo and sugar. Just follow the
            instructions and you will find about 3 days will do it. I just thrash
            the water/sugar with a paddle to get some oxygen into it then pitch
            the turbo in at around 40C and thrash it some more! Seal it up and try
            to run it at around 25C. My first bubble comes out in 2 min!!

            Good luck and cheers,
            Lindsay.

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "crackher_crackher" <caschera@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "crackher_crackher"
            > > <caschera@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hey guys,
            > > > I am currently building a still reflux based on the design
            > present
            > > in
            > > > the website http://www.moonshine-still.com/ it is a very
            > > informative
            > > > website. My question is one that I cannot seem to find an answer
            > > for
            > > > else. On the top of the Cooling column (The part that contains
            > > the
            > > > copper condensing coil in this case the 3" copper shell contains
            > > the
            > > > tubing. is the top of this assmebly capped off. I would think
            > > that if
            > > > it is not capped then vapor will be permitted to rise into the
            > > > atmosphere, thus I would be losing vauble resources. Can anyone
            > > verify
            > > > that this condensor shell is indeed left open to the stmosphere,
            > > or
            > > > closed off???
            > > >
            > > > Thanks all..
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yes it is open to atmosphere, for safety reasons. No chance of
            > > pressurising and making a big 'bang'. If you have vapour coming
            > out
            > > the top, it means your condenser ain't working right to knock down
            > > all the vapour. You need to...
            > > a) increase the coolant flow, or...
            > > b) get a bigger condenser, or...
            > > c) reduce the amount of heat you're driving into the column, thus
            > > slowing the vapour speed.
            > >
            > >
            > > Slainte!
            > > regards Harry
            > >
            >
            > Perfect thanks a lot Harry!!
            >
            > are there any other tricks that you would relay to a greenhorn..
            > i am think about using turbo yeast 48 fermented to ~18% based on a
            > straight forward sucrose wash. I guess the only remaining variable
            > is that i am planning on using scrubbers as a column packing...the
            > supplier up here is out of Raschig Rings anyways.
            >
          • w_upnorth
            ... Well to start with I wouldnt try to push any yeast to its limit. I use Highg Alcohol Distiller s Yeast That if you beleave the label will go to 20%,and
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 2, 2006
              >
              > are there any other tricks that you would relay to a greenhorn..
              >
              Well to start with I wouldnt try to push any yeast to its limit.
              I use " Highg Alcohol Distiller's Yeast " That if you beleave the label
              will go to 20%,and I am shure it will. With the perfect water, suger
              and Temp control. My water is hard, My suger is cheep and my temp
              comtrol sux. And yet I have found a way to push the yeast.
              What I do is buy 4 5lb bages of suger of witch I am to lazy to weigh
              out to 18lb, so I add it all to 24.4lt of hard water. No toping up to
              25lt here. It will make apx 29.8lt of wash @ 17.8% abv. Then I let it
              go till its done, depending on the season, 2 weeks to a month.
              Then there is the how fast you can run curve that most ppl go thru.
              Also the get every drop out of the mash sendrome.
              Most ppl learn that if you push the still to the limit they can get 95%
              and still have a foul taste,and or spend all weekend trying to get
              every drop of alcohol. I have learned that I like quality over speed or
              getting every last drop. By the way I toss the heavy heads and tales
              and keep the light ones.
              Hope this helps
              W_upnorth
            • w_upnorth
              ... Well to start with I wouldnt try to push any yeast to its limit. I use Highg Alcohol Distiller s Yeast That if you beleave the label will go to 20%,and
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 2, 2006
                >
                > are there any other tricks that you would relay to a greenhorn..
                >
                Well to start with I wouldnt try to push any yeast to its limit.
                I use " Highg Alcohol Distiller's Yeast " That if you beleave the label
                will go to 20%,and I am shure it will. With the perfect water, suger
                and Temp control. My water is hard, My suger is cheep and my temp
                comtrol sux. And yet I have found a way to push the yeast.
                What I do is buy 4 5lb bages of suger of witch I am to lazy to weigh
                out to 18lb, so I add it all to 24.4lt of hard water. No toping up to
                25lt here. It will make apx 29.8lt of wash @ 17.8% abv. Then I let it
                go till its done, depending on the season, 2 weeks to a month.
                Then there is the how fast you can run curve that most ppl go thru.
                Also the get every drop out of the mash sendrome.
                Most ppl learn that if you push the still to the limit they can get 95%
                and still have a foul taste,and or spend all weekend trying to get
                every drop of alcohol. I have learned that I like quality over speed or
                getting every last drop. By the way I toss the heavy heads and tales
                and keep the light ones.
                Hope this helps
                W_upnorth
              • abbababbaccc
                ... present ... out ... d) stuff a potscrubber inside the coil to reduce vaporspeed and increase cooling efficiency. IIRC the coil in those instructions has
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 3, 2006
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "crackher_crackher"
                  > <caschera@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hey guys,
                  > > I am currently building a still reflux based on the design
                  present
                  > in
                  > > the website http://www.moonshine-still.com/ it is a very
                  > informative
                  > > website. My question is one that I cannot seem to find an answer
                  > for
                  > > else. On the top of the Cooling column (The part that contains
                  > the
                  > > copper condensing coil in this case the 3" copper shell contains
                  > the
                  > > tubing. is the top of this assmebly capped off. I would think
                  > that if
                  > > it is not capped then vapor will be permitted to rise into the
                  > > atmosphere, thus I would be losing vauble resources. Can anyone
                  > verify
                  > > that this condensor shell is indeed left open to the stmosphere,
                  > or
                  > > closed off???
                  > >
                  > > Thanks all..
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yes it is open to atmosphere, for safety reasons. No chance of
                  > pressurising and making a big 'bang'. If you have vapour coming
                  out
                  > the top, it means your condenser ain't working right to knock down
                  > all the vapour. You need to...
                  > a) increase the coolant flow, or...
                  > b) get a bigger condenser, or...
                  > c) reduce the amount of heat you're driving into the column, thus
                  > slowing the vapour speed.
                  >
                  >
                  > Slainte!
                  > regards Harry
                  >

                  d) stuff a potscrubber inside the coil to reduce vaporspeed and
                  increase cooling efficiency. IIRC the coil in those instructions has
                  huge opening in the middle.

                  - Riku
                • Robert Lemmen
                  ... apart from the fact that the valve as the only opening is dangerous because it can be closed, i also think it has a too small cross section to really
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 3, 2006
                    On Thu, Feb 02, 2006 at 07:59:34PM -0000, ruggershiner wrote:
                    > He could close the top, leaving the takeoff valve open. This way he
                    > could make the adjustments that you suggested (with feedback) until
                    > balance could be achieved. This will work, my rig is was set up this
                    > way.

                    apart from the fact that the valve as the only opening is dangerous
                    because it can be closed, i also think it has a too small cross section
                    to really count. the resistance of a valve is pretty big, so you won't
                    be able to push 1kw worth of alcoholic vapour through. plus you always
                    risk some kind of oscillation (think pressure -> boiling point -> vapour
                    output -> pressure). in my setup i have a cap on top of the condenser,
                    but is has a really large hole in it (1 cm), and this works fine. no
                    vapour escapes when the power is right, and i had multiple times when it
                    would have been really bad if that hole hadn't been there (e.g. the
                    coolant pipes coming off the still...)

                    cu robert

                    --
                    Robert Lemmen http://www.semistable.com
                  • grayson_stewart66
                    ... Definately have some outlet to the atmosphere. Not using a cap is a good practice. I use a cap to help hold my coil steady against the weight of the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 3, 2006
                      > > Either of these situations are easily avoided by a vent to atmosphere
                      > > at the column top, either leave it open, or at least put a hole in it
                      > > if it's capped.

                      Definately have some outlet to the atmosphere. Not using a cap is a
                      good practice. I use a cap to help hold my coil steady against the
                      weight of the water input/output hoses but have placed a half inch
                      diameter hole in the cap. If you're like me and just waste the water
                      to the flower bed, that hole is also good for making sure you use just
                      enough cooling water to get the job done. I tear off a piece of paper
                      just larger than the hole...place the paper over the hole and adjust
                      the cooling water till the paper just stops fluttering over the hole.
                      Easy way to guage minimal cooling water needed.
                    • Mark Nelson
                      The valve I was talking about is 2 (from a VM system) not a needle valve. Sorry for not being clear. I won t comment unless I have time to be very specific
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 3, 2006
                        The valve I was talking about is 2" (from a VM system) not a needle valve.
                        Sorry for not being clear. I won't comment unless I have time to be very
                        specific and detailed.


                        apart from the fact that the valve as the only opening is dangerous because
                        it can be closed, i also think it has a too small cross section to really
                        count. the resistance of a valve is pretty big, so you won't be able to push
                        1kw worth of alcoholic vapour through. plus you always risk some kind of
                        oscillation (think pressure -> boiling point -> vapour output -> pressure).
                        in my setup i have a cap on top of the condenser, but is has a really large
                        hole in it (1 cm), and this works fine. no vapour escapes when the power is
                        right, and i had multiple times when it would have been really bad if that
                        hole hadn't been there (e.g. the coolant pipes coming off the still...)

                        cu robert

                        --
                        Robert Lemmen http://www.semistable.com
                      • donald holcombe
                        I been stuying this ... I like the wake you think now it makes sense or sents or scense....OOH it soundsOK. ... Definately have some outlet to the atmosphere.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 7, 2006
                          I been stuying this ... I like the wake you think now it makes sense or sents or scense....OOH it soundsOK.

                          grayson_stewart66 <grayson_stewart66@...> wrote:
                          > > Either of these situations are easily avoided by a vent to atmosphere
                          > > at the column top, either leave it open, or at least put a hole in it
                          > > if it's capped.

                          Definately have some outlet to the atmosphere. Not using a cap is a
                          good practice. I use a cap to help hold my coil steady against the
                          weight of the water input/output hoses but have placed a half inch
                          diameter hole in the cap. If you're like me and just waste the water
                          to the flower bed, that hole is also good for making sure you use just
                          enough cooling water to get the job done. I tear off a piece of paper
                          just larger than the hole...place the paper over the hole and adjust
                          the cooling water till the paper just stops fluttering over the hole.
                          Easy way to guage minimal cooling water needed.






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