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Re: Newbie with question

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  • Dave
    He s right. In the past, many people used coal and wood (and still do!) to get the boilers up to temperature. These people had no way of controlling the
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 1, 2006
      He's right.
      In the past, many people used coal and wood (and still do!) to get the
      boilers up to temperature. These people had no way of controlling the
      temperature. So what the next best thing....controlling the column
      temperature and that fact remains with us till this day.

      Read up on the history of brewing and distillation. I found it to be a
      great read and highly entertaining...that is if you like history.

      Dave


      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
      <lindsay.nz@g...> wrote:
      >
      > Whoever told you to control your boiler/wash temp does not know
      > anything about simple physics so DON'T listen to them. No one on this
      > planet has ever managed to change the boiling point of any given
      > liquid (given pressure stability). If you can do it, I look forward to
      > seeing your Nobel prize nomination.
      >
      > Just think about a pot of water on the stove. What temp does it boil
      > at? 100 deg C. If the water drops below 100, what happens? Yes, it
      > doesn't boil. What happens if you crank the heat up really high? No,
      > the water temp does not go above 100 as this is the BP of water and we
      > can't change that. What does happen is that you get much more vapour
      > from the pot. This is exactly what we get in our stills except that
      > the BP is lower than 100 as we have alcohol mixed with the water which
      > lowers the BP of the mixture to somewhere between the BP of the
      > alcohol and water. As the proportion of alcohol falls in our wash as
      > the run progresses, the BP rises towards the water BP.
      >
      > All this explains why the idea of slowly heating up the wash to boil
      > off the various alcohols, keeping it below 100 so the water won't come
      > through, is just so much rubbish. Once again, I refer to
      > www.homedistiller.org and the Theory section.
      >
      > Just boil the wash relatively slowly and let physics do its thing.
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Lindsay.
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > You see this? This here is what confuses the hell out of me. Some
      > people tell me I need to control the boiler temp and this guy says
      > let it boil and control the column temp. Seriously... WTF?
      > >
      > > In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and
      > that must be learned through trial and error. Anyway, as soon as my
      > voltage control comes in I'm going to be able to control almost
      > everything from the boiler temp to the percentage of alcohol in my
      > urine. No more excuses for the burnt yeast taste.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > _{*L*}_ <bokakob@y...> wrote: Nicolas -- please do not watch
      > the temperature in the boiler. Do an experiment -- let it boil as
      > much as it wants, BUT close a valve so you have only 1~2 drops per
      > minute coming out. Also, fully *open* the return valve -- it is not
      > needed and only confuses newcomers.
      > >
      > > nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@y...> wrote: Hi guys
      > >
      > > I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am
      > running it fo the first time. Here is
      > > my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture
      > should I heat my 10
      > > liters of fermented mash? The problem is I need to heat it quite
      > hot because the column is
      > > not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to
      > heat the mash to much
      > > because the water in it will boil to.
      > >
      > > Thanks in advance
      > >
      > > Nicolas
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
      > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > SPONSORED LINKS
      > > Management team Culture club Organizational culture
      > Culture
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      > >
      > >
      > > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > _{*L*}_
      > > Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
      > > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
      > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > SPONSORED LINKS
      > > Management
      > team Culture club
      > Organizational culture
      > Culture
      >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      > >
      > >
      > > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Yahoo! Shopping
      > > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
    • Dave
      I think I made a mistake on the gender part. My apologies if you are a female. Dave
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 1, 2006
        I think I made a mistake on the gender part. My apologies if you are a
        female.

        Dave

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <diskmaster23@y...> wrote:
        >
        > He's right.
        > In the past, many people used coal and wood (and still do!) to get the
        > boilers up to temperature. These people had no way of controlling the
        > temperature. So what the next best thing....controlling the column
        > temperature and that fact remains with us till this day.
        >
        > Read up on the history of brewing and distillation. I found it to be a
        > great read and highly entertaining...that is if you like history.
        >
        > Dave
        >
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
        > <lindsay.nz@g...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Whoever told you to control your boiler/wash temp does not know
        > > anything about simple physics so DON'T listen to them. No one on this
        > > planet has ever managed to change the boiling point of any given
        > > liquid (given pressure stability). If you can do it, I look forward to
        > > seeing your Nobel prize nomination.
        > >
        > > Just think about a pot of water on the stove. What temp does it boil
        > > at? 100 deg C. If the water drops below 100, what happens? Yes, it
        > > doesn't boil. What happens if you crank the heat up really high? No,
        > > the water temp does not go above 100 as this is the BP of water and we
        > > can't change that. What does happen is that you get much more vapour
        > > from the pot. This is exactly what we get in our stills except that
        > > the BP is lower than 100 as we have alcohol mixed with the water which
        > > lowers the BP of the mixture to somewhere between the BP of the
        > > alcohol and water. As the proportion of alcohol falls in our wash as
        > > the run progresses, the BP rises towards the water BP.
        > >
        > > All this explains why the idea of slowly heating up the wash to boil
        > > off the various alcohols, keeping it below 100 so the water won't come
        > > through, is just so much rubbish. Once again, I refer to
        > > www.homedistiller.org and the Theory section.
        > >
        > > Just boil the wash relatively slowly and let physics do its thing.
        > >
        > > Cheers,
        > > Lindsay.
        > >
        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...>
        wrote:
        > > >
        > > > You see this? This here is what confuses the hell out of me. Some
        > > people tell me I need to control the boiler temp and this guy says
        > > let it boil and control the column temp. Seriously... WTF?
        > > >
        > > > In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and
        > > that must be learned through trial and error. Anyway, as soon as my
        > > voltage control comes in I'm going to be able to control almost
        > > everything from the boiler temp to the percentage of alcohol in my
        > > urine. No more excuses for the burnt yeast taste.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > _{*L*}_ <bokakob@y...> wrote: Nicolas -- please do not watch
        > > the temperature in the boiler. Do an experiment -- let it boil as
        > > much as it wants, BUT close a valve so you have only 1~2 drops per
        > > minute coming out. Also, fully *open* the return valve -- it is not
        > > needed and only confuses newcomers.
        > > >
        > > > nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@y...> wrote: Hi guys
        > > >
        > > > I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am
        > > running it fo the first time. Here is
        > > > my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture
        > > should I heat my 10
        > > > liters of fermented mash? The problem is I need to heat it quite
        > > hot because the column is
        > > > not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to
        > > heat the mash to much
        > > > because the water in it will boil to.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks in advance
        > > >
        > > > Nicolas
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
        > > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > SPONSORED LINKS
        > > > Management team Culture club Organizational culture
        > > Culture
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
        > > >
        > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > > Service.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > _{*L*}_
        > > > Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
        > > > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
        > > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > SPONSORED LINKS
        > > > Management
        > > team Culture club
        > > Organizational culture
        > > Culture
        > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
        > > >
        > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > > Service.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > Yahoo! Shopping
        > > > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • morganfield1
        Hi Sam, Confusionsous say Man who try to control BP temp, get all steamed up!! Actually, when one turns down the heat, you re not controlling the temp,
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
          Hi Sam,
          Confusionsous say "Man who try to control BP temp, get all steamed
          up!!" Actually, when one turns down the heat, you're not controlling
          the temp, you're controlling the amount (or rate) of the boil. The
          more heat, the "faster" it boils, the more steam produced in a given
          amount of time. The more steam (vapor) you produce, the more vapor
          you stuff up the column, the more vapor you shuv thru the condenser,
          the faster the condensate comes out the spout. Yes, I know, you knew
          this already.
          Each still has it's happy place, that's why we have power controllers
          of one type or anougther. Most of us, even pot stillers, prefer a
          nice, slow, rolling boil. Less foaming, your not flooding the column,
          and the column reaches equilibrium sometime today. What is the right
          amount of vapor up the column? There are tables for that in
          homedistiller, but there are many variables. Heat loss in the pot,
          column length, ect. There are over 2000 members in this group, and
          you'll get that many different answeres on what works best. It works
          best for them, determine what works best for you. There are no short
          cuts, you have to experiment. I've been doing this for a very short
          time (one and a half years). Every run is an experiment, with alittle
          more knowledge (spelled educated guesses) added each time. Good luck.
          Tip one, Morgan


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > You see this? This here is what confuses the hell out of me.
          Some people tell me I need to control the boiler temp and this guy
          says let it boil and control the column temp. Seriously... WTF?
          >
        • donald holcombe
          If you study some of the info available you should figure out that you cannot control the temperature of the boiler. The % of alcohol in the wash controls its
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
            If you study some of the info available you should figure out that you cannot control the temperature of the boiler. The % of alcohol in the wash controls its boiling temp. This will vary as you extract the alcohol. you may control the rate of boil by varying the amount of heat you introduce into the wash.Work on the controls in the column. Controling the heat keeps the boiler from over powering your column.I hope this makes since Im just an old Potstiller. If your still confused contact me later for further confusion.!

            nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@...> wrote: Hi guys

            I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am running it fo the first time. Here is
            my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture should I heat my 10
            liters of fermented mash? The problem is I need to heat it quite hot because the column is
            not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to heat the mash to much
            because the water in it will boil to.

            Thanks in advance

            Nicolas







            Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
            FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



            SPONSORED LINKS
            Management team Culture club Organizational culture Culture

            ---------------------------------
            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


            Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            ---------------------------------






            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! Shopping
            Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lindsay Williams
            Nope, I have male bits last time I looked! Cheers, Lindsay (male spelling).
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
              Nope, I have male bits last time I looked!

              Cheers,
              Lindsay (male spelling).

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <diskmaster23@y...> wrote:
              >
              > I think I made a mistake on the gender part. My apologies if you are a
              > female.
              >
              > Dave
              >
            • Mike Sherwood
              I think the issue is keeping a high heat on the wash AFTER it has reached a boil. For first pass beer stripping maybe you keep it on a hard boil the whole
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
                I think the issue is keeping a high heat on the wash AFTER it has
                reached a boil. For first pass 'beer stripping' maybe you keep it on
                a hard boil the whole time. Second pass, maybe you'd like to bring it
                to a boil, and then lower the temperature to a slow boil or fast
                simmer. Just enough to vaporize the alcohol.

                The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts. Sometimes
                you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.

                I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to regulate
                the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat for
                this sort of application?
              • Brendan Keith
                Who says it won t? A heating element is resistive, just like a lamp. If the triac can handle the current then that s all that matters. If you can t find a
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
                  Who says it won't? A heating element is resistive, just like a lamp.

                  If the triac can handle the current then that's all that matters.

                  If you can't find a light dimmer at that current rating, get a
                  15A router speed control for about $10.

                  --
                  Brendan Keith
                  bkeith@...


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                  Behalf Of Mike Sherwood
                  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:40 AM
                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question

                  The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts. Sometimes
                  you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.

                  I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to regulate
                  the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                  wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat for
                  this sort of application?
                • Cary Rhodes
                  I bought a rather heavy one on ebay. search for variac or triac or rheostat it must weigh 8 or 10 pounds. cary r ... lamp. ... On ... Sometimes ... regulate
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
                    I bought a rather heavy one on ebay.

                    search for variac or triac or rheostat

                    it must weigh 8 or 10 pounds.

                    cary r







                    -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Brendan Keith" <bkeith@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Who says it won't? A heating element is resistive, just like a
                    lamp.
                    >
                    > If the triac can handle the current then that's all that matters.
                    >
                    > If you can't find a light dimmer at that current rating, get a
                    > 15A router speed control for about $10.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Brendan Keith
                    > bkeith@...
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                    On
                    > Behalf Of Mike Sherwood
                    > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:40 AM
                    > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question
                    >
                    > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts.
                    Sometimes
                    > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.
                    >
                    > I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to
                    regulate
                    > the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                    > wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat
                    for
                    > this sort of application?
                    >
                  • Brendan Keith
                    All 3 are very different things, although a variac and rhetostat are similar. A triac is a whole nother animal, and can be quite light. -- Brendan Keith
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
                      All 3 are very different things, although a variac and rhetostat are
                      similar.

                      A triac is a whole 'nother animal, and can be quite light.

                      --
                      Brendan Keith
                      bkeith@...


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                      Behalf Of Cary Rhodes
                      Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 5:18 PM
                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question


                      I bought a rather heavy one on ebay.

                      search for variac or triac or rheostat

                      it must weigh 8 or 10 pounds.

                      cary r







                      -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Brendan Keith" <bkeith@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Who says it won't? A heating element is resistive, just like a
                      lamp.
                      >
                      > If the triac can handle the current then that's all that matters.
                      >
                      > If you can't find a light dimmer at that current rating, get a
                      > 15A router speed control for about $10.
                      >
                      > --
                      > Brendan Keith
                      > bkeith@...
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                      On
                      > Behalf Of Mike Sherwood
                      > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:40 AM
                      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question
                      >
                      > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts.
                      Sometimes
                      > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.
                      >
                      > I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to
                      regulate
                      > the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                      > wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat
                      for
                      > this sort of application?
                      >






                      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                      FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Cary Rhodes
                      Yep But u got to realize that all the folks on ebay don t know what they are selling. And may not know how to describe the part. cary r ... On ...
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 2, 2006
                        Yep

                        But u got to realize that all the folks on ebay don't know what they
                        are selling.

                        And may not know how to describe the part.

                        cary r






                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Brendan Keith" <bkeith@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > All 3 are very different things, although a variac and rhetostat are
                        > similar.
                        >
                        > A triac is a whole 'nother animal, and can be quite light.
                        >
                        > --
                        > Brendan Keith
                        > bkeith@...
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                        On
                        > Behalf Of Cary Rhodes
                        > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 5:18 PM
                        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question
                        >
                        >
                        > I bought a rather heavy one on ebay.
                        >
                        > search for variac or triac or rheostat
                        >
                        > it must weigh 8 or 10 pounds.
                        >
                        > cary r
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Brendan Keith" <bkeith@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Who says it won't? A heating element is resistive, just like a
                        > lamp.
                        > >
                        > > If the triac can handle the current then that's all that matters.
                        > >
                        > > If you can't find a light dimmer at that current rating, get a
                        > > 15A router speed control for about $10.
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Brendan Keith
                        > > bkeith@
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On
                        > > Behalf Of Mike Sherwood
                        > > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:40 AM
                        > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question
                        > >
                        > > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts.
                        > Sometimes
                        > > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.
                        > >
                        > > I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to
                        > regulate
                        > > the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and
                        I
                        > > wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat
                        > for
                        > > this sort of application?
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                      • DetCord
                        that copied damn near every one of us in on a stoopid assed email about how Bill Gates is going to give away any of his damn money for forwarding some crazy
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 2, 2006
                          that copied damn near every one of us in on a stoopid assed email about
                          how Bill Gates is going to give away any of his damn money for
                          forwarding some crazy email?!?!?!

                          all you did was put every single one of our email addresses out there to
                          be harvested. When my spam filter overheats, I want to personally thank
                          you for your service to this world.

                          The next time you feel compelled to do a bulk mailing like that, just
                          ask yourself one question. "Does this sound too good to be true?" If
                          you answer "yes, by God, it does" DO NOT FWD IT!


                          Sorry to rant, but doggone, some people's kids!!!
                        • Saul Sabia
                          ... (sorry, i missed the original question!) once you get your wash to temp, and start the collection process, you want to lower your heat until you re
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 3, 2006
                            > Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 16:39:37 -0000
                            > From: "Mike Sherwood" <misha_sherwood@...>
                            > Subject: Re: Newbie with question
                            >
                            > I think the issue is keeping a high heat on the wash AFTER it has
                            > reached a boil. For first pass 'beer stripping' maybe you keep it on
                            > a hard boil the whole time. Second pass, maybe you'd like to bring it
                            > to a boil, and then lower the temperature to a slow boil or fast
                            > simmer. Just enough to vaporize the alcohol.

                            (sorry, i missed the original question!)

                            once you get your wash to temp, and start the collection process, you want
                            to lower your heat until you're collecting as little as possible. what this
                            does is improve your efficiency and help separate the heads, hearts, and
                            tails, giving you a clearer boundary from one to the next. it also takes a
                            bloody long time, esp with 5+ gal boiler! a 10 gal run can take 14 hours,
                            easily, or as little as 8 i think, all depending how fast it comes off.
                            (slower = better, but faster = ... ummm, less time to watch the still? =)

                            in a stripping run it's not so important, you can collect faster (ie, higher
                            heat) since what you're trying to do is get the bulk of the alcohol out of
                            the wash. the higher heat will lower the efficiency and allow more flavor
                            (both good and bad) in as well. the second run / finishing run should be the
                            slow one, where you're trying to get that good product....


                            > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts. Sometimes
                            > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.

                            propane is easier. (sorry, had to say it. =) good luck on finding a rheostat,
                            i don't know jack about that stuff. it might be easier to build a second
                            immersion heater into the still, as well, say a 1000w one or something like
                            that... run them both together during heat up, but cut one out once you're
                            up to temp.

                            isn't the rule something like if you cut the voltage in half you cut the
                            wattage by almost half? ie, a 1500w 220v element run at 110v would give you
                            the vicinity of 800w? .... something like that, anyways.


                            Saul

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                          • Robert Thomas
                            Mike, there s lots on this topic in the archives. Try a search on Sutronics. I believe there are also plans in the files section for the electronics
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 3, 2006
                              Mike,
                              there's lots on this topic in the archives. Try a search on Sutronics.
                              I believe there are also plans in the files section for the electronics
                              enthusiasts.
                              Cheers,
                              Rob.
                              p.s. I use a sutronics BFC, no probs.


                              --- Mike Sherwood <misha_sherwood@...> wrote:

                              > I think the issue is keeping a high heat on the wash AFTER it has
                              > reached a boil. For first pass 'beer stripping' maybe you keep it on
                              >
                              > a hard boil the whole time. Second pass, maybe you'd like to bring
                              > it
                              > to a boil, and then lower the temperature to a slow boil or fast
                              > simmer. Just enough to vaporize the alcohol.
                              >
                              > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts. Sometimes
                              >
                              > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.
                              >
                              > I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to regulate
                              > the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                              > wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat for
                              > this sort of application?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              Cheers,
                              Rob.

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                            • Brendan Keith
                              Cutting the voltage in half reduces your power to a quarter. So, 375W in your example. -- Brendan Keith bkeith@sympatico.ca ... From:
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 3, 2006
                                Cutting the voltage in half reduces your power to a quarter.

                                So, 375W in your example.

                                --
                                Brendan Keith
                                bkeith@...


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                                Behalf Of Saul Sabia
                                Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:05 AM
                                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question

                                ...

                                isn't the rule something like if you cut the voltage in half you cut the
                                wattage by almost half? ie, a 1500w 220v element run at 110v would give you
                                the vicinity of 800w? .... something like that, anyways.


                                Saul
                              • link2d
                                Re: column tempature... As the wash heats the tempature will rise in the reflux column. I, personally, watch two tempatures, just above the top of the wash
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 25, 2006
                                  Re: column tempature...
                                  As the wash heats the tempature will rise in the reflux column. I,
                                  personally, watch two tempatures, just above the top of the wash and
                                  the (important) temp AT the condensing tube. I usually heat the dog
                                  out of the wash. As the temp increasingly moves up the column to the
                                  top @ about 50c I cut back the heat to avoid boil over, then slowly
                                  increasing to 78c. As each component in the mixture of the wash boils
                                  off at different tempature the lighter ends will boil off first. If
                                  you temp is regulated at a fairly constant the distillation tempature
                                  will not move up until all of a component (ethyl alcohol) is vaporized.
                                  Pot still... same principle.
                                • Harry
                                  ... boils ... vaporized. ... Theoretically true for reflux type stills (but not entirely true in practice). That was fine up to the point where you said
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 25, 2006
                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "link2d" <link2d@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Re: column tempature...
                                    > As the wash heats the tempature will rise in the reflux column. I,
                                    > personally, watch two tempatures, just above the top of the wash and
                                    > the (important) temp AT the condensing tube. I usually heat the dog
                                    > out of the wash. As the temp increasingly moves up the column to the
                                    > top @ about 50c I cut back the heat to avoid boil over, then slowly
                                    > increasing to 78c. As each component in the mixture of the wash
                                    boils
                                    > off at different tempature the lighter ends will boil off first. If
                                    > you temp is regulated at a fairly constant the distillation tempature
                                    > will not move up until all of a component (ethyl alcohol) is
                                    vaporized.
                                    > Pot still... same principle.
                                    >


                                    Theoretically true for reflux type stills (but not 'entirely' true in
                                    practice). That was fine up to the point where you said 'potstill,
                                    same principle'. I wish it were so, but it ain't.

                                    Potstills can only lift the ethanol percentage one stage higher with
                                    each distillation. Therefore the other volatile components of the
                                    wash, will distill over with the ethanol in all stages of the
                                    distillation run. Simply put, let's say you had a bitch wash (not a
                                    typo) with lots of methanol & ethyl acetate in it. Both these
                                    components boil at a lower temp than ethanol, but you'd still be
                                    getting traces of them through the hearts, and even in the tails if
                                    using a potstill. Reflux or fractioning stills are the only
                                    economical way to separate and concentrate these components fully for
                                    removal.

                                    Having said that, remember it's the traces of 'impurities' that
                                    distinguish potstill and reflux still products. Each have their place.

                                    Slainte!
                                    regards Harry
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