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Re: [Distillers] Newbie with question

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  • Sam Thomas
    You see this? This here is what confuses the hell out of me. Some people tell me I need to control the boiler temp and this guy says let it boil and
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 1, 2006
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      You see this? This here is what confuses the hell out of me. Some people tell me I need to control the boiler temp and this guy says let it boil and control the column temp. Seriously... WTF?

      In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and that must be learned through trial and error. Anyway, as soon as my voltage control comes in I'm going to be able to control almost everything from the boiler temp to the percentage of alcohol in my urine. No more excuses for the burnt yeast taste.



      _{*L*}_ <bokakob@...> wrote: Nicolas -- please do not watch the temperature in the boiler. Do an experiment -- let it boil as much as it wants, BUT close a valve so you have only 1~2 drops per minute coming out. Also, fully *open* the return valve -- it is not needed and only confuses newcomers.

      nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@...> wrote: Hi guys

      I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am running it fo the first time. Here is
      my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture should I heat my 10
      liters of fermented mash? The problem is I need to heat it quite hot because the column is
      not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to heat the mash to much
      because the water in it will boil to.

      Thanks in advance

      Nicolas







      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
      FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



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      _{*L*}_
      Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
      http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob



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      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
      FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



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    • Lindsay Williams
      Whoever told you to control your boiler/wash temp does not know anything about simple physics so DON T listen to them. No one on this planet has ever managed
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 1, 2006
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        Whoever told you to control your boiler/wash temp does not know
        anything about simple physics so DON'T listen to them. No one on this
        planet has ever managed to change the boiling point of any given
        liquid (given pressure stability). If you can do it, I look forward to
        seeing your Nobel prize nomination.

        Just think about a pot of water on the stove. What temp does it boil
        at? 100 deg C. If the water drops below 100, what happens? Yes, it
        doesn't boil. What happens if you crank the heat up really high? No,
        the water temp does not go above 100 as this is the BP of water and we
        can't change that. What does happen is that you get much more vapour
        from the pot. This is exactly what we get in our stills except that
        the BP is lower than 100 as we have alcohol mixed with the water which
        lowers the BP of the mixture to somewhere between the BP of the
        alcohol and water. As the proportion of alcohol falls in our wash as
        the run progresses, the BP rises towards the water BP.

        All this explains why the idea of slowly heating up the wash to boil
        off the various alcohols, keeping it below 100 so the water won't come
        through, is just so much rubbish. Once again, I refer to
        www.homedistiller.org and the Theory section.

        Just boil the wash relatively slowly and let physics do its thing.

        Cheers,
        Lindsay.

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...> wrote:
        >
        > You see this? This here is what confuses the hell out of me. Some
        people tell me I need to control the boiler temp and this guy says
        let it boil and control the column temp. Seriously... WTF?
        >
        > In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and
        that must be learned through trial and error. Anyway, as soon as my
        voltage control comes in I'm going to be able to control almost
        everything from the boiler temp to the percentage of alcohol in my
        urine. No more excuses for the burnt yeast taste.
        >
        >
        >
        > _{*L*}_ <bokakob@y...> wrote: Nicolas -- please do not watch
        the temperature in the boiler. Do an experiment -- let it boil as
        much as it wants, BUT close a valve so you have only 1~2 drops per
        minute coming out. Also, fully *open* the return valve -- it is not
        needed and only confuses newcomers.
        >
        > nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@y...> wrote: Hi guys
        >
        > I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am
        running it fo the first time. Here is
        > my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture
        should I heat my 10
        > liters of fermented mash? The problem is I need to heat it quite
        hot because the column is
        > not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to
        heat the mash to much
        > because the water in it will boil to.
        >
        > Thanks in advance
        >
        > Nicolas
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS
        > Management team Culture club Organizational culture
        Culture
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >
        > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _{*L*}_
        > Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
        > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS
        > Management
        team Culture club
        Organizational culture
        Culture

        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >
        > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Shopping
        > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Dave
        He s right. In the past, many people used coal and wood (and still do!) to get the boilers up to temperature. These people had no way of controlling the
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 1, 2006
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          He's right.
          In the past, many people used coal and wood (and still do!) to get the
          boilers up to temperature. These people had no way of controlling the
          temperature. So what the next best thing....controlling the column
          temperature and that fact remains with us till this day.

          Read up on the history of brewing and distillation. I found it to be a
          great read and highly entertaining...that is if you like history.

          Dave


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
          <lindsay.nz@g...> wrote:
          >
          > Whoever told you to control your boiler/wash temp does not know
          > anything about simple physics so DON'T listen to them. No one on this
          > planet has ever managed to change the boiling point of any given
          > liquid (given pressure stability). If you can do it, I look forward to
          > seeing your Nobel prize nomination.
          >
          > Just think about a pot of water on the stove. What temp does it boil
          > at? 100 deg C. If the water drops below 100, what happens? Yes, it
          > doesn't boil. What happens if you crank the heat up really high? No,
          > the water temp does not go above 100 as this is the BP of water and we
          > can't change that. What does happen is that you get much more vapour
          > from the pot. This is exactly what we get in our stills except that
          > the BP is lower than 100 as we have alcohol mixed with the water which
          > lowers the BP of the mixture to somewhere between the BP of the
          > alcohol and water. As the proportion of alcohol falls in our wash as
          > the run progresses, the BP rises towards the water BP.
          >
          > All this explains why the idea of slowly heating up the wash to boil
          > off the various alcohols, keeping it below 100 so the water won't come
          > through, is just so much rubbish. Once again, I refer to
          > www.homedistiller.org and the Theory section.
          >
          > Just boil the wash relatively slowly and let physics do its thing.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Lindsay.
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > You see this? This here is what confuses the hell out of me. Some
          > people tell me I need to control the boiler temp and this guy says
          > let it boil and control the column temp. Seriously... WTF?
          > >
          > > In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and
          > that must be learned through trial and error. Anyway, as soon as my
          > voltage control comes in I'm going to be able to control almost
          > everything from the boiler temp to the percentage of alcohol in my
          > urine. No more excuses for the burnt yeast taste.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _{*L*}_ <bokakob@y...> wrote: Nicolas -- please do not watch
          > the temperature in the boiler. Do an experiment -- let it boil as
          > much as it wants, BUT close a valve so you have only 1~2 drops per
          > minute coming out. Also, fully *open* the return valve -- it is not
          > needed and only confuses newcomers.
          > >
          > > nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@y...> wrote: Hi guys
          > >
          > > I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am
          > running it fo the first time. Here is
          > > my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture
          > should I heat my 10
          > > liters of fermented mash? The problem is I need to heat it quite
          > hot because the column is
          > > not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to
          > heat the mash to much
          > > because the water in it will boil to.
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance
          > >
          > > Nicolas
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
          > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > SPONSORED LINKS
          > > Management team Culture club Organizational culture
          > Culture
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          > >
          > >
          > > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _{*L*}_
          > > Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
          > > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
          > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > SPONSORED LINKS
          > > Management
          > team Culture club
          > Organizational culture
          > Culture
          >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          > >
          > >
          > > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Yahoo! Shopping
          > > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • Dave
          I think I made a mistake on the gender part. My apologies if you are a female. Dave
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 1, 2006
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            I think I made a mistake on the gender part. My apologies if you are a
            female.

            Dave

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <diskmaster23@y...> wrote:
            >
            > He's right.
            > In the past, many people used coal and wood (and still do!) to get the
            > boilers up to temperature. These people had no way of controlling the
            > temperature. So what the next best thing....controlling the column
            > temperature and that fact remains with us till this day.
            >
            > Read up on the history of brewing and distillation. I found it to be a
            > great read and highly entertaining...that is if you like history.
            >
            > Dave
            >
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
            > <lindsay.nz@g...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Whoever told you to control your boiler/wash temp does not know
            > > anything about simple physics so DON'T listen to them. No one on this
            > > planet has ever managed to change the boiling point of any given
            > > liquid (given pressure stability). If you can do it, I look forward to
            > > seeing your Nobel prize nomination.
            > >
            > > Just think about a pot of water on the stove. What temp does it boil
            > > at? 100 deg C. If the water drops below 100, what happens? Yes, it
            > > doesn't boil. What happens if you crank the heat up really high? No,
            > > the water temp does not go above 100 as this is the BP of water and we
            > > can't change that. What does happen is that you get much more vapour
            > > from the pot. This is exactly what we get in our stills except that
            > > the BP is lower than 100 as we have alcohol mixed with the water which
            > > lowers the BP of the mixture to somewhere between the BP of the
            > > alcohol and water. As the proportion of alcohol falls in our wash as
            > > the run progresses, the BP rises towards the water BP.
            > >
            > > All this explains why the idea of slowly heating up the wash to boil
            > > off the various alcohols, keeping it below 100 so the water won't come
            > > through, is just so much rubbish. Once again, I refer to
            > > www.homedistiller.org and the Theory section.
            > >
            > > Just boil the wash relatively slowly and let physics do its thing.
            > >
            > > Cheers,
            > > Lindsay.
            > >
            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...>
            wrote:
            > > >
            > > > You see this? This here is what confuses the hell out of me. Some
            > > people tell me I need to control the boiler temp and this guy says
            > > let it boil and control the column temp. Seriously... WTF?
            > > >
            > > > In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and
            > > that must be learned through trial and error. Anyway, as soon as my
            > > voltage control comes in I'm going to be able to control almost
            > > everything from the boiler temp to the percentage of alcohol in my
            > > urine. No more excuses for the burnt yeast taste.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > _{*L*}_ <bokakob@y...> wrote: Nicolas -- please do not watch
            > > the temperature in the boiler. Do an experiment -- let it boil as
            > > much as it wants, BUT close a valve so you have only 1~2 drops per
            > > minute coming out. Also, fully *open* the return valve -- it is not
            > > needed and only confuses newcomers.
            > > >
            > > > nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@y...> wrote: Hi guys
            > > >
            > > > I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am
            > > running it fo the first time. Here is
            > > > my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture
            > > should I heat my 10
            > > > liters of fermented mash? The problem is I need to heat it quite
            > > hot because the column is
            > > > not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to
            > > heat the mash to much
            > > > because the water in it will boil to.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks in advance
            > > >
            > > > Nicolas
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
            > > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > SPONSORED LINKS
            > > > Management team Culture club Organizational culture
            > > Culture
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > > Service.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > _{*L*}_
            > > > Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
            > > > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
            > > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > SPONSORED LINKS
            > > > Management
            > > team Culture club
            > > Organizational culture
            > > Culture
            > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > > Service.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > > Yahoo! Shopping
            > > > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • morganfield1
            Hi Sam, Confusionsous say Man who try to control BP temp, get all steamed up!! Actually, when one turns down the heat, you re not controlling the temp,
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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              Hi Sam,
              Confusionsous say "Man who try to control BP temp, get all steamed
              up!!" Actually, when one turns down the heat, you're not controlling
              the temp, you're controlling the amount (or rate) of the boil. The
              more heat, the "faster" it boils, the more steam produced in a given
              amount of time. The more steam (vapor) you produce, the more vapor
              you stuff up the column, the more vapor you shuv thru the condenser,
              the faster the condensate comes out the spout. Yes, I know, you knew
              this already.
              Each still has it's happy place, that's why we have power controllers
              of one type or anougther. Most of us, even pot stillers, prefer a
              nice, slow, rolling boil. Less foaming, your not flooding the column,
              and the column reaches equilibrium sometime today. What is the right
              amount of vapor up the column? There are tables for that in
              homedistiller, but there are many variables. Heat loss in the pot,
              column length, ect. There are over 2000 members in this group, and
              you'll get that many different answeres on what works best. It works
              best for them, determine what works best for you. There are no short
              cuts, you have to experiment. I've been doing this for a very short
              time (one and a half years). Every run is an experiment, with alittle
              more knowledge (spelled educated guesses) added each time. Good luck.
              Tip one, Morgan


              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...>
              wrote:
              >
              > You see this? This here is what confuses the hell out of me.
              Some people tell me I need to control the boiler temp and this guy
              says let it boil and control the column temp. Seriously... WTF?
              >
            • donald holcombe
              If you study some of the info available you should figure out that you cannot control the temperature of the boiler. The % of alcohol in the wash controls its
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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                If you study some of the info available you should figure out that you cannot control the temperature of the boiler. The % of alcohol in the wash controls its boiling temp. This will vary as you extract the alcohol. you may control the rate of boil by varying the amount of heat you introduce into the wash.Work on the controls in the column. Controling the heat keeps the boiler from over powering your column.I hope this makes since Im just an old Potstiller. If your still confused contact me later for further confusion.!

                nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@...> wrote: Hi guys

                I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am running it fo the first time. Here is
                my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture should I heat my 10
                liters of fermented mash? The problem is I need to heat it quite hot because the column is
                not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to heat the mash to much
                because the water in it will boil to.

                Thanks in advance

                Nicolas







                Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



                SPONSORED LINKS
                Management team Culture club Organizational culture Culture

                ---------------------------------
                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                ---------------------------------






                ---------------------------------
                Yahoo! Shopping
                Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lindsay Williams
                Nope, I have male bits last time I looked! Cheers, Lindsay (male spelling).
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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                  Nope, I have male bits last time I looked!

                  Cheers,
                  Lindsay (male spelling).

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <diskmaster23@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I think I made a mistake on the gender part. My apologies if you are a
                  > female.
                  >
                  > Dave
                  >
                • Mike Sherwood
                  I think the issue is keeping a high heat on the wash AFTER it has reached a boil. For first pass beer stripping maybe you keep it on a hard boil the whole
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
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                    I think the issue is keeping a high heat on the wash AFTER it has
                    reached a boil. For first pass 'beer stripping' maybe you keep it on
                    a hard boil the whole time. Second pass, maybe you'd like to bring it
                    to a boil, and then lower the temperature to a slow boil or fast
                    simmer. Just enough to vaporize the alcohol.

                    The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts. Sometimes
                    you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.

                    I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to regulate
                    the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                    wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat for
                    this sort of application?
                  • Brendan Keith
                    Who says it won t? A heating element is resistive, just like a lamp. If the triac can handle the current then that s all that matters. If you can t find a
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
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                      Who says it won't? A heating element is resistive, just like a lamp.

                      If the triac can handle the current then that's all that matters.

                      If you can't find a light dimmer at that current rating, get a
                      15A router speed control for about $10.

                      --
                      Brendan Keith
                      bkeith@...


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                      Behalf Of Mike Sherwood
                      Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:40 AM
                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question

                      The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts. Sometimes
                      you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.

                      I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to regulate
                      the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                      wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat for
                      this sort of application?
                    • Cary Rhodes
                      I bought a rather heavy one on ebay. search for variac or triac or rheostat it must weigh 8 or 10 pounds. cary r ... lamp. ... On ... Sometimes ... regulate
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
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                        I bought a rather heavy one on ebay.

                        search for variac or triac or rheostat

                        it must weigh 8 or 10 pounds.

                        cary r







                        -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Brendan Keith" <bkeith@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Who says it won't? A heating element is resistive, just like a
                        lamp.
                        >
                        > If the triac can handle the current then that's all that matters.
                        >
                        > If you can't find a light dimmer at that current rating, get a
                        > 15A router speed control for about $10.
                        >
                        > --
                        > Brendan Keith
                        > bkeith@...
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                        On
                        > Behalf Of Mike Sherwood
                        > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:40 AM
                        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question
                        >
                        > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts.
                        Sometimes
                        > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.
                        >
                        > I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to
                        regulate
                        > the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                        > wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat
                        for
                        > this sort of application?
                        >
                      • Brendan Keith
                        All 3 are very different things, although a variac and rhetostat are similar. A triac is a whole nother animal, and can be quite light. -- Brendan Keith
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
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                          All 3 are very different things, although a variac and rhetostat are
                          similar.

                          A triac is a whole 'nother animal, and can be quite light.

                          --
                          Brendan Keith
                          bkeith@...


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                          Behalf Of Cary Rhodes
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 5:18 PM
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question


                          I bought a rather heavy one on ebay.

                          search for variac or triac or rheostat

                          it must weigh 8 or 10 pounds.

                          cary r







                          -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Brendan Keith" <bkeith@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Who says it won't? A heating element is resistive, just like a
                          lamp.
                          >
                          > If the triac can handle the current then that's all that matters.
                          >
                          > If you can't find a light dimmer at that current rating, get a
                          > 15A router speed control for about $10.
                          >
                          > --
                          > Brendan Keith
                          > bkeith@...
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                          On
                          > Behalf Of Mike Sherwood
                          > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:40 AM
                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question
                          >
                          > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts.
                          Sometimes
                          > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.
                          >
                          > I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to
                          regulate
                          > the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                          > wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat
                          for
                          > this sort of application?
                          >






                          Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                          FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Cary Rhodes
                          Yep But u got to realize that all the folks on ebay don t know what they are selling. And may not know how to describe the part. cary r ... On ...
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 2, 2006
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                            Yep

                            But u got to realize that all the folks on ebay don't know what they
                            are selling.

                            And may not know how to describe the part.

                            cary r






                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Brendan Keith" <bkeith@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > All 3 are very different things, although a variac and rhetostat are
                            > similar.
                            >
                            > A triac is a whole 'nother animal, and can be quite light.
                            >
                            > --
                            > Brendan Keith
                            > bkeith@...
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                            On
                            > Behalf Of Cary Rhodes
                            > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 5:18 PM
                            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question
                            >
                            >
                            > I bought a rather heavy one on ebay.
                            >
                            > search for variac or triac or rheostat
                            >
                            > it must weigh 8 or 10 pounds.
                            >
                            > cary r
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Brendan Keith" <bkeith@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Who says it won't? A heating element is resistive, just like a
                            > lamp.
                            > >
                            > > If the triac can handle the current then that's all that matters.
                            > >
                            > > If you can't find a light dimmer at that current rating, get a
                            > > 15A router speed control for about $10.
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > Brendan Keith
                            > > bkeith@
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                            > On
                            > > Behalf Of Mike Sherwood
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:40 AM
                            > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question
                            > >
                            > > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts.
                            > Sometimes
                            > > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.
                            > >
                            > > I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to
                            > regulate
                            > > the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and
                            I
                            > > wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat
                            > for
                            > > this sort of application?
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                            > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                          • DetCord
                            that copied damn near every one of us in on a stoopid assed email about how Bill Gates is going to give away any of his damn money for forwarding some crazy
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 2, 2006
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                              that copied damn near every one of us in on a stoopid assed email about
                              how Bill Gates is going to give away any of his damn money for
                              forwarding some crazy email?!?!?!

                              all you did was put every single one of our email addresses out there to
                              be harvested. When my spam filter overheats, I want to personally thank
                              you for your service to this world.

                              The next time you feel compelled to do a bulk mailing like that, just
                              ask yourself one question. "Does this sound too good to be true?" If
                              you answer "yes, by God, it does" DO NOT FWD IT!


                              Sorry to rant, but doggone, some people's kids!!!
                            • Saul Sabia
                              ... (sorry, i missed the original question!) once you get your wash to temp, and start the collection process, you want to lower your heat until you re
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 3, 2006
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                                > Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 16:39:37 -0000
                                > From: "Mike Sherwood" <misha_sherwood@...>
                                > Subject: Re: Newbie with question
                                >
                                > I think the issue is keeping a high heat on the wash AFTER it has
                                > reached a boil. For first pass 'beer stripping' maybe you keep it on
                                > a hard boil the whole time. Second pass, maybe you'd like to bring it
                                > to a boil, and then lower the temperature to a slow boil or fast
                                > simmer. Just enough to vaporize the alcohol.

                                (sorry, i missed the original question!)

                                once you get your wash to temp, and start the collection process, you want
                                to lower your heat until you're collecting as little as possible. what this
                                does is improve your efficiency and help separate the heads, hearts, and
                                tails, giving you a clearer boundary from one to the next. it also takes a
                                bloody long time, esp with 5+ gal boiler! a 10 gal run can take 14 hours,
                                easily, or as little as 8 i think, all depending how fast it comes off.
                                (slower = better, but faster = ... ummm, less time to watch the still? =)

                                in a stripping run it's not so important, you can collect faster (ie, higher
                                heat) since what you're trying to do is get the bulk of the alcohol out of
                                the wash. the higher heat will lower the efficiency and allow more flavor
                                (both good and bad) in as well. the second run / finishing run should be the
                                slow one, where you're trying to get that good product....


                                > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts. Sometimes
                                > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.

                                propane is easier. (sorry, had to say it. =) good luck on finding a rheostat,
                                i don't know jack about that stuff. it might be easier to build a second
                                immersion heater into the still, as well, say a 1000w one or something like
                                that... run them both together during heat up, but cut one out once you're
                                up to temp.

                                isn't the rule something like if you cut the voltage in half you cut the
                                wattage by almost half? ie, a 1500w 220v element run at 110v would give you
                                the vicinity of 800w? .... something like that, anyways.


                                Saul

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                              • Robert Thomas
                                Mike, there s lots on this topic in the archives. Try a search on Sutronics. I believe there are also plans in the files section for the electronics
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 3, 2006
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                                  Mike,
                                  there's lots on this topic in the archives. Try a search on Sutronics.
                                  I believe there are also plans in the files section for the electronics
                                  enthusiasts.
                                  Cheers,
                                  Rob.
                                  p.s. I use a sutronics BFC, no probs.


                                  --- Mike Sherwood <misha_sherwood@...> wrote:

                                  > I think the issue is keeping a high heat on the wash AFTER it has
                                  > reached a boil. For first pass 'beer stripping' maybe you keep it on
                                  >
                                  > a hard boil the whole time. Second pass, maybe you'd like to bring
                                  > it
                                  > to a boil, and then lower the temperature to a slow boil or fast
                                  > simmer. Just enough to vaporize the alcohol.
                                  >
                                  > The immersion heater on my copper pot still is 1500 watts. Sometimes
                                  >
                                  > you just want to dial it down after the vapors start to collect.
                                  >
                                  > I'm looking for a commercial TRIAC rheostat or something to regulate
                                  > the power to the immersion heater. Light dimmers do not work and I
                                  > wouldn't even try to use them. Has anyone found a good rheostat for
                                  > this sort of application?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  Cheers,
                                  Rob.

                                  __________________________________________________
                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                                • Brendan Keith
                                  Cutting the voltage in half reduces your power to a quarter. So, 375W in your example. -- Brendan Keith bkeith@sympatico.ca ... From:
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Feb 3, 2006
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                                    Cutting the voltage in half reduces your power to a quarter.

                                    So, 375W in your example.

                                    --
                                    Brendan Keith
                                    bkeith@...


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
                                    Behalf Of Saul Sabia
                                    Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:05 AM
                                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: Newbie with question

                                    ...

                                    isn't the rule something like if you cut the voltage in half you cut the
                                    wattage by almost half? ie, a 1500w 220v element run at 110v would give you
                                    the vicinity of 800w? .... something like that, anyways.


                                    Saul
                                  • link2d
                                    Re: column tempature... As the wash heats the tempature will rise in the reflux column. I, personally, watch two tempatures, just above the top of the wash
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 25 8:26 AM
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                                      Re: column tempature...
                                      As the wash heats the tempature will rise in the reflux column. I,
                                      personally, watch two tempatures, just above the top of the wash and
                                      the (important) temp AT the condensing tube. I usually heat the dog
                                      out of the wash. As the temp increasingly moves up the column to the
                                      top @ about 50c I cut back the heat to avoid boil over, then slowly
                                      increasing to 78c. As each component in the mixture of the wash boils
                                      off at different tempature the lighter ends will boil off first. If
                                      you temp is regulated at a fairly constant the distillation tempature
                                      will not move up until all of a component (ethyl alcohol) is vaporized.
                                      Pot still... same principle.
                                    • Harry
                                      ... boils ... vaporized. ... Theoretically true for reflux type stills (but not entirely true in practice). That was fine up to the point where you said
                                      Message 18 of 20 , May 25 1:19 PM
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                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "link2d" <link2d@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Re: column tempature...
                                        > As the wash heats the tempature will rise in the reflux column. I,
                                        > personally, watch two tempatures, just above the top of the wash and
                                        > the (important) temp AT the condensing tube. I usually heat the dog
                                        > out of the wash. As the temp increasingly moves up the column to the
                                        > top @ about 50c I cut back the heat to avoid boil over, then slowly
                                        > increasing to 78c. As each component in the mixture of the wash
                                        boils
                                        > off at different tempature the lighter ends will boil off first. If
                                        > you temp is regulated at a fairly constant the distillation tempature
                                        > will not move up until all of a component (ethyl alcohol) is
                                        vaporized.
                                        > Pot still... same principle.
                                        >


                                        Theoretically true for reflux type stills (but not 'entirely' true in
                                        practice). That was fine up to the point where you said 'potstill,
                                        same principle'. I wish it were so, but it ain't.

                                        Potstills can only lift the ethanol percentage one stage higher with
                                        each distillation. Therefore the other volatile components of the
                                        wash, will distill over with the ethanol in all stages of the
                                        distillation run. Simply put, let's say you had a bitch wash (not a
                                        typo) with lots of methanol & ethyl acetate in it. Both these
                                        components boil at a lower temp than ethanol, but you'd still be
                                        getting traces of them through the hearts, and even in the tails if
                                        using a potstill. Reflux or fractioning stills are the only
                                        economical way to separate and concentrate these components fully for
                                        removal.

                                        Having said that, remember it's the traces of 'impurities' that
                                        distinguish potstill and reflux still products. Each have their place.

                                        Slainte!
                                        regards Harry
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