Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

some reflux still questions

Expand Messages
  • BEAU REBEL
    hello, i have some distilling experience. mostly with crude equiptment. i made a still out of a presure cooker while deployed to afghan where we could not
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 30, 2005
      hello,
      i have some distilling experience. mostly with crude
      equiptment. i made a still out of a presure cooker while deployed
      to afghan where we could not get any drink. i have a good
      understanding of the concept and theory of the reflux still but have
      some questions. i want to build a modified version of the valved
      reflux still on moonshine-still.com. i want to make two seperate
      condensors, one for refluxed distillate with a seperate thermometer
      to control temp of return, and the other for take off. both having
      there own cooling supply to be individualy regulated. it would
      basicaly look the same, only with another condensor adjacent to the
      other one, with a valve for each respective condensor to allow flow
      into them. there would also be a small coil inside the cloumn to
      keep the temp in there in check. i have soaked up as much info as i
      can from websites, mostly moonshine-still, where igot the idea for
      the design, and homedistiller, which is where my questions stem
      from. the first one is, is a column that is too wide ineficent? i
      would like to use at least 3". the second one, i know too much
      power is bad, but what about low power levels? the third, can you
      have too many plates, or too tall of a column? i would like to use
      6-8 plates. four, how do you calculate the the power out put of an
      external heat source as oposed to an internal element? i want to
      use a burner. and last, what is the optimum temp for refluxed
      distillate? i know it cant be too cold. i would like to get
      opinions about the design idea also. is a good one or not? thanks
      for any input and answers.

      BEAU J. REBEL
    • Lindsay Williams
      Alright, I ll have a go! The first comment is, simple is good . Balancing the interacting factors is hard enough for new reflux distillers without adding
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 30, 2005
        Alright, I'll have a go! The first comment is, "simple is good".
        Balancing the interacting factors is hard enough for new reflux
        distillers without adding unnecessary stuff. You are sort of
        describing a vapour managed still which has the two condensers. I
        would advise looking carefully at a VM design before committing
        yourself to this described design. It seems quite prudent to start
        with a known good design before inventing a new one.

        You also seem quite keen on "controlling temp", even with a
        thermometer. At the end of the day, the vapour composition controls
        the temp.

        Questions:-
        No, a wide column is not inefficient per se. I guess you could make it
        inefficient! A 2" column is regarded as being 'about right' for home
        distillers. A 3" column is a very different animal in terms of capacity.

        Low power levels is REALLY bad - no vapour really kills the concept!
        You have to have it boiling but just not too hard. Simple, really.

        Plates is not too great a way to describe a packed hobby column. If
        you have read a lot, you will realise that the vast majority of reflux
        columns are about a metre in length. The ceiling is one limiting factor!

        You don't need to calculate the power from an external source. Just
        keep the wash at a slow boil.

        The refluxed distillate is about the right temp if the output is warm.

        In summary, my advice is to start by following standard designs before
        branching out on your own. Blunt, but there you go.

        Cheers,
        Lindsay.

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "BEAU REBEL" <misfitrebel999@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > hello,
        > i have some distilling experience. mostly with crude
        > equiptment. i made a still out of a presure cooker while deployed
        > to afghan where we could not get any drink. i have a good
        > understanding of the concept and theory of the reflux still but have
        > some questions. i want to build a modified version of the valved
        > reflux still on moonshine-still.com. i want to make two seperate
        > condensors, one for refluxed distillate with a seperate thermometer
        > to control temp of return, and the other for take off. both having
        > there own cooling supply to be individualy regulated. it would
        > basicaly look the same, only with another condensor adjacent to the
        > other one, with a valve for each respective condensor to allow flow
        > into them. there would also be a small coil inside the cloumn to
        > keep the temp in there in check. i have soaked up as much info as i
        > can from websites, mostly moonshine-still, where igot the idea for
        > the design, and homedistiller, which is where my questions stem
        > from. the first one is, is a column that is too wide ineficent? i
        > would like to use at least 3". the second one, i know too much
        > power is bad, but what about low power levels? the third, can you
        > have too many plates, or too tall of a column? i would like to use
        > 6-8 plates. four, how do you calculate the the power out put of an
        > external heat source as oposed to an internal element? i want to
        > use a burner. and last, what is the optimum temp for refluxed
        > distillate? i know it cant be too cold. i would like to get
        > opinions about the design idea also. is a good one or not? thanks
        > for any input and answers.
        >
        > BEAU J. REBEL
        >
      • abbababbaccc
        I must say I second Lindsay s recommendation on VM. It s relatively easy to make and control + it contains the product cooling you were after. If you want to
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 1, 2005
          I must say I second Lindsay's recommendation on VM. It's relatively
          easy to make and control + it contains the product cooling you were
          after. If you want to tinker a bit more ARC is another good option,
          although it does all the controlling automatically :)

          - Riku

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
          <lindsay.nz@g...> wrote:
          >
          > Alright, I'll have a go! The first comment is, "simple is good".
          > Balancing the interacting factors is hard enough for new reflux
          > distillers without adding unnecessary stuff. You are sort of
          > describing a vapour managed still which has the two condensers. I
          > would advise looking carefully at a VM design before committing
          > yourself to this described design. It seems quite prudent to start
          > with a known good design before inventing a new one.
          >
          > You also seem quite keen on "controlling temp", even with a
          > thermometer. At the end of the day, the vapour composition controls
          > the temp.
          >
          > Questions:-
          > No, a wide column is not inefficient per se. I guess you could
          make it
          > inefficient! A 2" column is regarded as being 'about right' for
          home
          > distillers. A 3" column is a very different animal in terms of
          capacity.
          >
          > Low power levels is REALLY bad - no vapour really kills the
          concept!
          > You have to have it boiling but just not too hard. Simple, really.
          >
          > Plates is not too great a way to describe a packed hobby column. If
          > you have read a lot, you will realise that the vast majority of
          reflux
          > columns are about a metre in length. The ceiling is one limiting
          factor!
          >
          > You don't need to calculate the power from an external source. Just
          > keep the wash at a slow boil.
          >
          > The refluxed distillate is about the right temp if the output is
          warm.
          >
          > In summary, my advice is to start by following standard designs
          before
          > branching out on your own. Blunt, but there you go.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Lindsay.
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "BEAU REBEL"
          <misfitrebel999@y...>
        • Andrew Bugal
          Thunderous applause. Lindsay Williams wrote: Alright, I ll have a go! The first comment is, simple is good . Balancing the interacting
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 1, 2005
            Thunderous applause.

            Lindsay Williams <lindsay.nz@...> wrote: Alright, I'll have a go! The first comment is, "simple is good".
            Balancing the interacting factors is hard enough for new reflux
            distillers without adding unnecessary stuff. You are sort of
            describing a vapour managed still which has the two condensers. I
            would advise looking carefully at a VM design before committing
            yourself to this described design. It seems quite prudent to start
            with a known good design before inventing a new one.

            You also seem quite keen on "controlling temp", even with a
            thermometer. At the end of the day, the vapour composition controls
            the temp.

            Questions:-
            No, a wide column is not inefficient per se. I guess you could make it
            inefficient! A 2" column is regarded as being 'about right' for home
            distillers. A 3" column is a very different animal in terms of capacity.

            Low power levels is REALLY bad - no vapour really kills the concept!
            You have to have it boiling but just not too hard. Simple, really.

            Plates is not too great a way to describe a packed hobby column. If
            you have read a lot, you will realise that the vast majority of reflux
            columns are about a metre in length. The ceiling is one limiting factor!

            You don't need to calculate the power from an external source. Just
            keep the wash at a slow boil.

            The refluxed distillate is about the right temp if the output is warm.

            In summary, my advice is to start by following standard designs before
            branching out on your own. Blunt, but there you go.

            Cheers,
            Lindsay.

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "BEAU REBEL"
            wrote:
            >
            > hello,
            > i have some distilling experience. mostly with crude
            > equiptment. i made a still out of a presure cooker while deployed
            > to afghan where we could not get any drink. i have a good
            > understanding of the concept and theory of the reflux still but have
            > some questions. i want to build a modified version of the valved
            > reflux still on moonshine-still.com. i want to make two seperate
            > condensors, one for refluxed distillate with a seperate thermometer
            > to control temp of return, and the other for take off. both having
            > there own cooling supply to be individualy regulated. it would
            > basicaly look the same, only with another condensor adjacent to the
            > other one, with a valve for each respective condensor to allow flow
            > into them. there would also be a small coil inside the cloumn to
            > keep the temp in there in check. i have soaked up as much info as i
            > can from websites, mostly moonshine-still, where igot the idea for
            > the design, and homedistiller, which is where my questions stem
            > from. the first one is, is a column that is too wide ineficent? i
            > would like to use at least 3". the second one, i know too much
            > power is bad, but what about low power levels? the third, can you
            > have too many plates, or too tall of a column? i would like to use
            > 6-8 plates. four, how do you calculate the the power out put of an
            > external heat source as oposed to an internal element? i want to
            > use a burner. and last, what is the optimum temp for refluxed
            > distillate? i know it cant be too cold. i would like to get
            > opinions about the design idea also. is a good one or not? thanks
            > for any input and answers.
            >
            > BEAU J. REBEL
            >







            Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
            FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
            Yahoo! Groups Links










            ---------------------------------
            Do you Yahoo!?
            The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • BEAU REBEL
            ... make it ... home ... capacity. ... concept! ... reflux ... factor! ... warm. ... before ... lindsay, thanks for the advice. i couldnt find anything on a
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 1, 2005
              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
              <lindsay.nz@g...> wrote:
              >
              > Alright, I'll have a go! The first comment is, "simple is good".
              > Balancing the interacting factors is hard enough for new reflux
              > distillers without adding unnecessary stuff. You are sort of
              > describing a vapour managed still which has the two condensers. I
              > would advise looking carefully at a VM design before committing
              > yourself to this described design. It seems quite prudent to start
              > with a known good design before inventing a new one.
              >
              > You also seem quite keen on "controlling temp", even with a
              > thermometer. At the end of the day, the vapour composition controls
              > the temp.
              >
              > Questions:-
              > No, a wide column is not inefficient per se. I guess you could
              make it
              > inefficient! A 2" column is regarded as being 'about right' for
              home
              > distillers. A 3" column is a very different animal in terms of
              capacity.
              >
              > Low power levels is REALLY bad - no vapour really kills the
              concept!
              > You have to have it boiling but just not too hard. Simple, really.
              >
              > Plates is not too great a way to describe a packed hobby column. If
              > you have read a lot, you will realise that the vast majority of
              reflux
              > columns are about a metre in length. The ceiling is one limiting
              factor!
              >
              > You don't need to calculate the power from an external source. Just
              > keep the wash at a slow boil.
              >
              > The refluxed distillate is about the right temp if the output is
              warm.
              >
              > In summary, my advice is to start by following standard designs
              before
              > branching out on your own. Blunt, but there you go.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Lindsay.
              >

              lindsay,
              thanks for the advice. i couldnt find anything on a vm still.
              i think i will just stick with the original design that i got the
              idea from with only one condesor head. the reason i am worried
              about temp control is because with my experince with the still i
              used before, i had to keep a constant eye on the thermometer. but
              i guess with a reflux design it sounds like it will pretty much
              control the column temp itself, is that corect, or will there need
              to be at least some sort of control in the column? the reason i
              want to go with a wide column is so i can run large batches, and i
              really dont want to run into an over power problem. i plan on using
              a gas burner. so as long as i can keep it at a good steady rolling
              boil it should be ok? do i need to moniter the boiler temp at all?
              the plates question i got from homeditillers.com where it talks
              about HETP. i am new to the reflux thing so i am trying to get as
              much information as possible. thanks again.

              BEAU J. REBEL
            • abbababbaccc
              Beau, If you are in a hurry to build something try Bokakob s EL head. The drawings should be available at homedistiller.org It s much easier and cheaper to
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 1, 2005
                Beau,

                If you are in a hurry to build something try Bokakob's EL head. The
                drawings should be available at homedistiller.org It's much easier
                and cheaper to build than the valved reflux head and gives the same
                quality. If you have patience read the archives and searh for VM (or
                ARC).

                - Riku

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "BEAU REBEL" <misfitrebel999@y...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
                > <lindsay.nz@g...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Alright, I'll have a go! The first comment is, "simple is good".
                > > Balancing the interacting factors is hard enough for new reflux
                > > distillers without adding unnecessary stuff. You are sort of
                > > describing a vapour managed still which has the two condensers. I
                > > would advise looking carefully at a VM design before committing
                > > yourself to this described design. It seems quite prudent to start
                > > with a known good design before inventing a new one.
                > >
                > > You also seem quite keen on "controlling temp", even with a
                > > thermometer. At the end of the day, the vapour composition
                controls
                > > the temp.
                > >
                > > Questions:-
                > > No, a wide column is not inefficient per se. I guess you could
                > make it
                > > inefficient! A 2" column is regarded as being 'about right' for
                > home
                > > distillers. A 3" column is a very different animal in terms of
                > capacity.
                > >
                > > Low power levels is REALLY bad - no vapour really kills the
                > concept!
                > > You have to have it boiling but just not too hard. Simple, really.
                > >
                > > Plates is not too great a way to describe a packed hobby column.
                If
                > > you have read a lot, you will realise that the vast majority of
                > reflux
                > > columns are about a metre in length. The ceiling is one limiting
                > factor!
                > >
                > > You don't need to calculate the power from an external source.
                Just
                > > keep the wash at a slow boil.
                > >
                > > The refluxed distillate is about the right temp if the output is
                > warm.
                > >
                > > In summary, my advice is to start by following standard designs
                > before
                > > branching out on your own. Blunt, but there you go.
                > >
                > > Cheers,
                > > Lindsay.
                > >
                >
                > lindsay,
                > thanks for the advice. i couldnt find anything on a vm still.
                > i think i will just stick with the original design that i got the
                > idea from with only one condesor head. the reason i am worried
                > about temp control is because with my experince with the still i
                > used before, i had to keep a constant eye on the thermometer. but
                > i guess with a reflux design it sounds like it will pretty much
                > control the column temp itself, is that corect, or will there need
                > to be at least some sort of control in the column? the reason i
                > want to go with a wide column is so i can run large batches, and i
                > really dont want to run into an over power problem. i plan on
                using
                > a gas burner. so as long as i can keep it at a good steady rolling
                > boil it should be ok? do i need to moniter the boiler temp at
                all?
                > the plates question i got from homeditillers.com where it talks
                > about HETP. i am new to the reflux thing so i am trying to get as
                > much information as possible. thanks again.
                >
                > BEAU J. REBEL
                >
              • Lindsay Williams
                A VM still is simple to build and control. Have a look at Photos/Lindsay for some ideas. But, as Riku says, Alex s EL design is very good too. Don t get hung
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 1, 2005
                  A VM still is simple to build and control. Have a look at
                  Photos/Lindsay for some ideas. But, as Riku says, Alex's EL design is
                  very good too.

                  Don't get hung up over temp control. The wash will always boil at the
                  temp dictated by the proportions of water to alcohol. Can't control
                  this so why take its temp? You control purity (related to temp) by
                  varying the amount of reflux. Like when you are running and see the
                  temp start to climb, applying more reflux will stop and reverse the
                  temp rise. More reflux forces more purity and thus keeps it at the
                  etoh temp of around 78 deg C. But more reflux means slower take-off.
                  Eventually, as the etoh gets exhausted, you will swap to tails taking
                  mode and open up the speed by reducing reflux and letting the wash
                  boil more vigorously. Of course, this phase will see the vapour temp
                  rise quite quickly. So, yes, the column will pretty much take care of
                  the temp with slow boil and highish reflux.

                  You certainly will get a higher take-off rate with a 3" column. You
                  will apply more power as well.

                  Have fun! And ask more questions if you need.

                  Cheers,
                  Lindsay.

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "BEAU REBEL" <misfitrebel999@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > lindsay,
                  > thanks for the advice. i couldnt find anything on a vm still.
                  > i think i will just stick with the original design that i got the
                  > idea from with only one condesor head. the reason i am worried
                  > about temp control is because with my experince with the still i
                  > used before, i had to keep a constant eye on the thermometer. but
                  > i guess with a reflux design it sounds like it will pretty much
                  > control the column temp itself, is that corect, or will there need
                  > to be at least some sort of control in the column? the reason i
                  > want to go with a wide column is so i can run large batches, and i
                  > really dont want to run into an over power problem. i plan on using
                  > a gas burner. so as long as i can keep it at a good steady rolling
                  > boil it should be ok? do i need to moniter the boiler temp at all?
                  > the plates question i got from homeditillers.com where it talks
                  > about HETP. i am new to the reflux thing so i am trying to get as
                  > much information as possible. thanks again.
                  >
                  > BEAU J. REBEL
                  >
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.