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  • pure95percent
    Guys, I am getting ready to do a grain mash and want to get one step resolved before I start and that is separating the liquid from the mush before distilling.
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 29, 2005
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      Guys,

      I am getting ready to do a grain mash and want to get one step
      resolved before I start and that is separating the liquid from the
      mush before distilling.

      It would be great if I had a boiler that was steam heated, or a
      double boiler, but I don't (yet!).

      I still have bad dreams about some sake I made that took me a month
      to ferment under temperature control, only to get 1 liter of liquid
      out of the mush out of 2 gallons. I tried the gravity method with
      cheese cloth on a collander overnight. All I got was a huge glob of
      alcohol soaked mush I had to toss. I see the same thing happening to
      me with a grain mash.

      I purchased some malted barley as well as some 3 in 1 enzymes
      (Pectinase, Amylase, and Amyloglucosidase) from Brewhaus.

      I plan on using the malted barley to do the starch conversion.

      Other question was how is the 3 in 1 enzyme pack used? How much grain
      will that little pack convert and when would you use this vs. using
      malted barley?

      Thanks in advance,
      Warm regards on ice,

      Roderick
    • Sven Pfitt
      You need a lauter system. See John Palmer How to Brew: http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17-2.html Most commercial sites I ve seen recomending enzime
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 29, 2005
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        You need a lauter system.

        See John Palmer How to Brew:

        http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17-2.html

        Most commercial sites I've seen recomending enzime additions call for
        about 1gr/KG of grain. However they are using it to mash rice or corn
        with no enzime content.

        If you are using malted barley, you should not need additional
        enzimes if you do a 150F infusion mash with a 1 to 2L/KG water to
        grain ratio.

        WHat other grain do you plan to use in addition to the malted barley?

        Sven

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pure95percent"
        <pure95percent@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Guys,
        >
        > I am getting ready to do a grain mash and want to get one step
        > resolved before I start and that is separating the liquid from the
        > mush before distilling.
        >
        > It would be great if I had a boiler that was steam heated, or a
        > double boiler, but I don't (yet!).
        >
        > I still have bad dreams about some sake I made that took me a month
        > to ferment under temperature control, only to get 1 liter of liquid
        > out of the mush out of 2 gallons. I tried the gravity method with
        > cheese cloth on a collander overnight. All I got was a huge glob of
        > alcohol soaked mush I had to toss. I see the same thing happening
        to
        > me with a grain mash.
        >
        > I purchased some malted barley as well as some 3 in 1 enzymes
        > (Pectinase, Amylase, and Amyloglucosidase) from Brewhaus.
        >
        > I plan on using the malted barley to do the starch conversion.
        >
        > Other question was how is the 3 in 1 enzyme pack used? How much
        grain
        > will that little pack convert and when would you use this vs. using
        > malted barley?
        >
        > Thanks in advance,
        > Warm regards on ice,
        >
        > Roderick
        >
      • donald holcombe
        I let my mush settle a week in a sealed container. Dip off the liquid. add wter to the mush. Then put in a cheesecloth bag. I hold both ends of the bag( 1 in
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 29, 2005
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          I let my mush settle a week in a sealed container. Dip off the liquid. add wter to the mush. Then put in a cheesecloth bag. I hold both ends of the bag( 1 in each hand ) and roll the mush into a ball raising one hand at a time.Hold over a bowl or pot to catch the lquid. You end up with a ball of almost dry mush.Learned this trick from an Amazonion native.

          pure95percent <pure95percent@...> wrote: Guys,

          I am getting ready to do a grain mash and want to get one step
          resolved before I start and that is separating the liquid from the
          mush before distilling.

          It would be great if I had a boiler that was steam heated, or a
          double boiler, but I don't (yet!).

          I still have bad dreams about some sake I made that took me a month
          to ferment under temperature control, only to get 1 liter of liquid
          out of the mush out of 2 gallons. I tried the gravity method with
          cheese cloth on a collander overnight. All I got was a huge glob of
          alcohol soaked mush I had to toss. I see the same thing happening to
          me with a grain mash.

          I purchased some malted barley as well as some 3 in 1 enzymes
          (Pectinase, Amylase, and Amyloglucosidase) from Brewhaus.

          I plan on using the malted barley to do the starch conversion.

          Other question was how is the 3 in 1 enzyme pack used? How much grain
          will that little pack convert and when would you use this vs. using
          malted barley?

          Thanks in advance,
          Warm regards on ice,

          Roderick





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          FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



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        • Roderick Holmes
          Sven, Thanks for the info on the lauter system. You are a wealth of information and it is always appreciated. I read all of your posts. I haven t decided on a
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 29, 2005
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            Sven,
            Thanks for the info on the lauter system. You are a wealth of information and it is always appreciated. I read all of your posts.

            I haven't decided on a grain yet. Of what I have lying around, I have lots of rice, lots of old oatmeal, lots of old instant mashed potatoes. Some old corn meal (but probably rancid by now)

            I don't have to use the old stuff though. I can go out and buy grain. What do you suggest? I make a good vodka from sugar wort. My rum is decent. I would like to try my hand at some corn liquor and eventually bourbon (I know it is tough). If I use corn meal, I can see this will probably clog or go right through the holes in the lauter system or cheese cloth. Same with the instant mashed potatoes. This is where I saw a difficult to work with mush. I probably did not get a good conversion when I made the sake, hence the impossible to work with paste I ended up. My koji mold (enzyme) cultivation probably did not yield as much as I thought.

            Donald,
            I also like the idea of the cheese cloth bag. Sounds simple enough for whole grains or cracked grains.

            Thanks for all your input,
            Roderick

            Sven Pfitt <the_gimp98@...> wrote:
            You need a lauter system.

            See John Palmer How to Brew:

            http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17-2.html

            Most commercial sites I've seen recomending enzime additions call for
            about 1gr/KG of grain. However they are using it to mash rice or corn
            with no enzime content.

            If you are using malted barley, you should not need additional
            enzimes if you do a 150F infusion mash with a 1 to 2L/KG water to
            grain ratio.

            WHat other grain do you plan to use in addition to the malted barley?

            Sven

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pure95percent"
            <pure95percent@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Guys,
            >
            > I am getting ready to do a grain mash and want to get one step
            > resolved before I start and that is separating the liquid from the
            > mush before distilling.
            >
            > It would be great if I had a boiler that was steam heated, or a
            > double boiler, but I don't (yet!).
            >
            > I still have bad dreams about some sake I made that took me a month
            > to ferment under temperature control, only to get 1 liter of liquid
            > out of the mush out of 2 gallons. I tried the gravity method with
            > cheese cloth on a collander overnight. All I got was a huge glob of
            > alcohol soaked mush I had to toss. I see the same thing happening
            to
            > me with a grain mash.
            >
            > I purchased some malted barley as well as some 3 in 1 enzymes
            > (Pectinase, Amylase, and Amyloglucosidase) from Brewhaus.
            >
            > I plan on using the malted barley to do the starch conversion.
            >
            > Other question was how is the 3 in 1 enzyme pack used? How much
            grain
            > will that little pack convert and when would you use this vs. using
            > malted barley?
            >
            > Thanks in advance,
            > Warm regards on ice,
            >
            > Roderick
            >






            Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
            FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



            SPONSORED LINKS
            Management team building Corporate culture Corporate culture change Business culture of china Corporate culture training Management team

            ---------------------------------
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            Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            ---------------------------------







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          • donald holcombe
            Lautering all grain is not to hard .I use rice hulls on pumpkin beer.(Like lautering gypsum). I use the bag on all cornmeal mash. I also use a wine bag in a 20
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 30, 2005
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              Lautering all grain is not to hard .I use rice hulls on pumpkin beer.(Like lautering gypsum). I use the bag on all cornmeal mash. I also use a wine bag in a 20 liter buket with a colander in the bottomon some grain mashes. I havent made a r3eal lauter tun yet.Getting a good mash conversion changes the character of the meal to a easier handling mush.

              Roderick Holmes <pure95percent@...> wrote: Sven,
              Thanks for the info on the lauter system. You are a wealth of information and it is always appreciated. I read all of your posts.

              I haven't decided on a grain yet. Of what I have lying around, I have lots of rice, lots of old oatmeal, lots of old instant mashed potatoes. Some old corn meal (but probably rancid by now)

              I don't have to use the old stuff though. I can go out and buy grain. What do you suggest? I make a good vodka from sugar wort. My rum is decent. I would like to try my hand at some corn liquor and eventually bourbon (I know it is tough). If I use corn meal, I can see this will probably clog or go right through the holes in the lauter system or cheese cloth. Same with the instant mashed potatoes. This is where I saw a difficult to work with mush. I probably did not get a good conversion when I made the sake, hence the impossible to work with paste I ended up. My koji mold (enzyme) cultivation probably did not yield as much as I thought.

              Donald,
              I also like the idea of the cheese cloth bag. Sounds simple enough for whole grains or cracked grains.

              Thanks for all your input,
              Roderick

              Sven Pfitt <the_gimp98@...> wrote:
              You need a lauter system.

              See John Palmer How to Brew:

              http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17-2.html

              Most commercial sites I've seen recomending enzime additions call for
              about 1gr/KG of grain. However they are using it to mash rice or corn
              with no enzime content.

              If you are using malted barley, you should not need additional
              enzimes if you do a 150F infusion mash with a 1 to 2L/KG water to
              grain ratio.

              WHat other grain do you plan to use in addition to the malted barley?

              Sven

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pure95percent"
              <pure95percent@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Guys,
              >
              > I am getting ready to do a grain mash and want to get one step
              > resolved before I start and that is separating the liquid from the
              > mush before distilling.
              >
              > It would be great if I had a boiler that was steam heated, or a
              > double boiler, but I don't (yet!).
              >
              > I still have bad dreams about some sake I made that took me a month
              > to ferment under temperature control, only to get 1 liter of liquid
              > out of the mush out of 2 gallons. I tried the gravity method with
              > cheese cloth on a collander overnight. All I got was a huge glob of
              > alcohol soaked mush I had to toss. I see the same thing happening
              to
              > me with a grain mash.
              >
              > I purchased some malted barley as well as some 3 in 1 enzymes
              > (Pectinase, Amylase, and Amyloglucosidase) from Brewhaus.
              >
              > I plan on using the malted barley to do the starch conversion.
              >
              > Other question was how is the 3 in 1 enzyme pack used? How much
              grain
              > will that little pack convert and when would you use this vs. using
              > malted barley?
              >
              > Thanks in advance,
              > Warm regards on ice,
              >
              > Roderick
              >






              Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



              SPONSORED LINKS
              Management team building Corporate culture Corporate culture change Business culture of china Corporate culture training Management team

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              Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



              SPONSORED LINKS
              Management team building Corporate culture Corporate culture change Business culture of china Corporate culture training Management team

              ---------------------------------
              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


              Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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              ---------------------------------






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            • toddk63
              For your cormeal mash...Did you filter before or after fermentation? ... beer.(Like lautering gypsum). I use the bag on all cornmeal mash. I also use a wine
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 1, 2005
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                For your cormeal mash...Did you filter before or after fermentation?

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, donald holcombe
                <blackledge_02@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Lautering all grain is not to hard .I use rice hulls on pumpkin
                beer.(Like lautering gypsum). I use the bag on all cornmeal mash. I
                also use a wine bag in a 20 liter buket with a colander in the
                bottomon some grain mashes. I havent made a r3eal lauter tun
                yet.Getting a good mash conversion changes the character of the meal
                to a easier handling mush.
                >
              • donald holcombe
                I usually ferment on the grain. I used to distill all grain BUT it is so easy to scorch a batch and I probably just got lazy.I lauter all my beer.But not my
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 2, 2005
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                  I usually ferment on the grain. I used to distill all grain BUT it is so easy to scorch a batch and I probably just got lazy.I lauter all my beer.But not my likker.

                  toddk63 <toddk63@...> wrote: For your cormeal mash...Did you filter before or after fermentation?

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, donald holcombe
                  <blackledge_02@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lautering all grain is not to hard .I use rice hulls on pumpkin
                  beer.(Like lautering gypsum). I use the bag on all cornmeal mash. I
                  also use a wine bag in a 20 liter buket with a colander in the
                  bottomon some grain mashes. I havent made a r3eal lauter tun
                  yet.Getting a good mash conversion changes the character of the meal
                  to a easier handling mush.
                  >






                  Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                  FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



                  SPONSORED LINKS
                  Management team building Corporate culture Corporate culture change Business culture of china Corporate culture training Management team

                  ---------------------------------
                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                  Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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                • Robert Hubble
                  Donald, Funny how you bring up lazy . I ve been working like crazy on the Christmas batch of allgrain bourbon as promised to my kids for presents. I ve been
                  Message 8 of 8 , Dec 3, 2005
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                    Donald,

                    Funny how you bring up "lazy". I've been working like crazy on the
                    Christmas batch of allgrain bourbon as promised to my kids for presents.
                    I've been working through a 50# bag of hen scratch (~60% corn, 40% wheat),
                    beer stripping each batch into a carboy for the final spirit run. Each
                    batch involved boiling and cooling to first conversion temp, boiling and
                    cooling to second conversion temp, and boiling (to deal with what seems like
                    a kinda septic process) and cooling to yeast pitching. Ferment on the grain,
                    press in my nesting-perforated-polypail and filter bag press, and beer
                    strip.

                    That's alot of boiling and stirring to avoid a lot of scorching, so this
                    last batch, I decided to cut my effort a bit and press the converted and
                    unpitched grain, and then to hell with the final boil, just pitch the yeast
                    (a starter of Gert Strand's whiskey yeast from a previous batch, a technique
                    that has worked well in the past). This way, I could start cooking the last
                    batch while the current batch was fermenting, and with less effort.

                    Big mistake!

                    I am now the proud owner of my first vinegar fermentation in 50 years of
                    distillation, 5 gallons of the ugliest, sourest shit I have ever
                    encountered. This morning it gets poured out. A chastened man, I will
                    start the last batch cooking, the old, hard way.

                    A corner cut is a corner that will rise up to bite you on the ass, given a
                    chance, but the kids WILL get their Christmas bourbon (even if still on
                    oak).

                    Zymurgy Bob

                    >From: donald holcombe <blackledge_02@...>
                    >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Filtering mush
                    >Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 03:13:06 -0800 (PST)
                    >
                    >I usually ferment on the grain. I used to distill all grain BUT it is so
                    >easy to scorch a batch and I probably just got lazy.I lauter all my
                    >beer.But not my likker.
                    >
                    >toddk63 <toddk63@...> wrote: For your cormeal mash...Did you filter
                    >before or after fermentation?
                    >
                    >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, donald holcombe
                    ><blackledge_02@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Lautering all grain is not to hard .I use rice hulls on pumpkin
                    >beer.(Like lautering gypsum). I use the bag on all cornmeal mash. I
                    >also use a wine bag in a 20 liter buket with a colander in the
                    >bottomon some grain mashes. I havent made a r3eal lauter tun
                    >yet.Getting a good mash conversion changes the character of the meal
                    >to a easier handling mush.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                    >FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > SPONSORED LINKS
                    > Management team building Corporate culture Corporate culture
                    >change Business culture of china Corporate culture training
                    >Management team
                    >
                    >---------------------------------
                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    >
                    > Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    >---------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >---------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Personals
                    > Let fate take it's course directly to your email.
                    > See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals
                    >
                    >---------------------------------
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                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

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