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Re: I have a problem (???) . NO: I HAD A PROBLEM !!!

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  • Harry
    ... Heh, tis pleased I am to note that there are people out there actually partaking of the fare on offer at tastylime (have you checked who owns and
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 29, 2005
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      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@y...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hi Harry and Micio,
      > just to throw a spanner in the works (and to mention
      > Berglund, Artisan Distilling, tastylime site for the
      > millionth time), bicarbonate is used by schnapps
      > distillers TO REDUCE overly estery distillate
      > flavours. If Micio isn't careful, he will get neutral
      > alcohol from one of the most difficult sources
      > available.
      > I would suggest just neuralising the acid (pH 7).
      > Presumably if you can measure pH 3 you can measure 7
      > Micio? Note that you will have to dilute the sample
      > with water to get an accurate pH.
      > The other option is to stir the distillate with
      > calcium carbonate (chalk), filter and then distil.
      > Since Calcium carbonate is almost insoluble, you won't
      > get excess alkalinity.
      > Final suggestion is follow Berglund's recipe (in the
      > faults section near the end).
      > Cheers,
      > Rob.



      Heh, 'tis pleased I am to note that there are people out there
      actually partaking of the fare on offer at tastylime (have you
      checked who owns and populates the site? ;-)) )

      From Chris' tome...

      "Depending on the ester content 20% or more of the faulty distillate
      are adjusted with a base to pH 5.6-5.8, distilled separately and
      afterwards mixed with the main stock. After the dilution the main
      stock is entirely neutralized and mixed with an excess amount of
      sodium bicarbonate base. Through heating to 75 °C for 2 hours the
      ester splitting is achieved. After acidification to a pH of 5.6-5.8
      the distillation can proceed normally."

      Micio's problem was not one of excess esterification, rather a
      starting pomice of considerable putrefaction. Therefore the
      statement stands:- FRESH pomice, REDUCED to pH3 to inhibit
      bacterial growth. THEN 2 distillations. 1st distillation, collect
      all that is feasible. 2nd distillation, bring the pH up with
      Sodium Bicarbonate to a point somewhat less than neutral (5. 6 -
      5.8, according to Chris Berglund).

      I see your point, Rob. But in this case I think you will find the
      flavours of the fresh pomice will carry over quite nicely. Micio is
      using a plated potstill, made of copper, not a fractionating column.


      Slainte!
      regards Harry
      Moderator
    • Robert Thomas
      ... ... yup, great resource (shame it doesn t get looked at enough). ... which I believe Berglund recons to be unsavable (but I may be wrong, haven t
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 29, 2005
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        --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

        <snip>
        >
        > Heh, 'tis pleased I am to note that there are people
        > out there
        > actually partaking of the fare on offer at tastylime
        > (have you
        > checked who owns and populates the site? ;-)) )

        yup, great resource (shame it doesn't get looked at
        enough).

        >
        > From Chris' tome...
        >
        > "Depending on the ester content 20% or more of the
        > faulty distillate
        > are adjusted with a base to pH 5.6-5.8, distilled
        > separately and
        > afterwards mixed with the main stock. After the
        > dilution the main
        > stock is entirely neutralized and mixed with an
        > excess amount of
        > sodium bicarbonate base. Through heating to 75 °C
        > for 2 hours the
        > ester splitting is achieved. After acidification to
        > a pH of 5.6-5.8
        > the distillation can proceed normally."
        >
        > Micio's problem was not one of excess
        > esterification, rather a
        > starting pomice of considerable putrefaction.
        which I believe Berglund recons to be unsavable (but I
        may be wrong, haven't read it for a little while).

        > Therefore the
        > statement stands:- FRESH pomice, REDUCED to pH3 to
        > inhibit
        > bacterial growth. THEN 2 distillations. 1st
        > distillation, collect
        > all that is feasible. 2nd distillation, bring the
        > pH up with
        > Sodium Bicarbonate to a point somewhat less than
        > neutral (5. 6 -
        > 5.8, according to Chris Berglund).
        Why bother with the bicarb? I thought the problem was
        a corroding still, and that the product was fine.
        If the icky still was caused by the rotten pomace,
        then using fresh pomace solves the problem, without
        needing bicarb, that could/will alter the flavour
        profile and development.
        Cheers,
        Rob.

        >
        > I see your point, Rob. But in this case I think you
        > will find the
        > flavours of the fresh pomice will carry over quite
        > nicely. Micio is
        > using a plated potstill, made of copper, not a
        > fractionating column.
        >
        >
        > Slainte!
        > regards Harry
        > Moderator
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        Cheers,
        Rob.




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      • Harry
        ... wrote: site? ;-)) ) ... Why, thank ye Sir! tis my humble attempt to give something back to the hobby. ;) ... Using fresh pomace does indeed solve the
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 29, 2005
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@y...>
          wrote:
          site? ;-)) )
          >
          > yup, great resource (shame it doesn't get looked at
          > enough).


          Why, thank ye Sir! 'tis my humble attempt to give something back to
          the hobby. ;)




          > Why bother with the bicarb? I thought the problem was
          > a corroding still, and that the product was fine.
          > If the icky still was caused by the rotten pomace,
          > then using fresh pomace solves the problem, without
          > needing bicarb, that could/will alter the flavour
          > profile and development.
          > Cheers,
          > Rob.



          Using fresh pomace does indeed solve the corrosion problem.
          However, as I and Professor Berglund both intimated, the fresh
          pomace needs to be brought to pH 3 to inhibit spoilage bacterial
          growth, until the mash is ready to run. This obviates the need to
          raise the pH at some stage to neutralise any residual acidity. It
          cannot be done in the first distillation as it will produce the well-
          known blue distillate. Therefore it should be done in the second
          distillation, to reduce residual acidity. This of course is not a
          problem in a fractionating column, as the distillate product is
          virtually neutral, pH wise. However it is a concern in a potstill,
          where the whole object of the exercise is to introduce SOME of the
          tails as flavouring. These tails are quite acidic, and need to be
          tempered somewhat, if you value your intestines. Check the tails
          with a litmus paper, you'll see what I mean.


          Slainte!
          regards Harry
          Moderator
        • Robert Thomas
          ... obviates? surely necessitates ... okey dokey, point taken. Cheers, Rob. Cheers, Rob. __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 29, 2005
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            --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas
            > <whosbrewing@y...>
            > wrote:
            > site? ;-)) )
            > >
            > > yup, great resource (shame it doesn't get looked
            > at
            > > enough).
            >
            >
            > Why, thank ye Sir! 'tis my humble attempt to give
            > something back to
            > the hobby. ;)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > > Why bother with the bicarb? I thought the problem
            > was
            > > a corroding still, and that the product was fine.
            > > If the icky still was caused by the rotten pomace,
            > > then using fresh pomace solves the problem,
            > without
            > > needing bicarb, that could/will alter the flavour
            > > profile and development.
            > > Cheers,
            > > Rob.
            >
            >
            >
            > Using fresh pomace does indeed solve the corrosion
            > problem.
            > However, as I and Professor Berglund both intimated,
            > the fresh
            > pomace needs to be brought to pH 3 to inhibit
            > spoilage bacterial
            > growth, until the mash is ready to run. This
            > obviates the need to

            obviates? surely necessitates

            > raise the pH at some stage to neutralise any
            > residual acidity. It
            > cannot be done in the first distillation as it will
            > produce the well-
            > known blue distillate. Therefore it should be done
            > in the second
            > distillation, to reduce residual acidity. This of
            > course is not a
            > problem in a fractionating column, as the distillate
            > product is
            > virtually neutral, pH wise. However it is a
            > concern in a potstill,
            > where the whole object of the exercise is to
            > introduce SOME of the
            > tails as flavouring. These tails are quite acidic,
            > and need to be
            > tempered somewhat, if you value your intestines.
            > Check the tails
            > with a litmus paper, you'll see what I mean.

            okey dokey, point taken.
            Cheers,
            Rob.



            Cheers,
            Rob.



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