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RE: [Distillers] Re: malted barley grain

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  • Robert N
    Hi all, I recently tried a little experiment where by I added two tablespoons of crystal malt grains to a 700ml bottle of my standard essence recipe whiskey
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 4, 2005
      Hi all, I recently tried a little experiment where by I added two
      tablespoons of crystal malt grains to a 700ml bottle of my standard essence
      recipe whiskey and left it sit for two months. Maybe if I had only left it
      for a day or two it may have been ok. The flavour of the malt was so
      overpowering that as much as I forced myself to acquire a taste for it, I
      couldn't finish the glass. O' well its back to the still it goes.



      Yours in Spirit

      Robert



      _____

      From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Harry
      Sent: Friday, 4 November 2005 6:24 PM
      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Distillers] Re: malted barley grain



      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Thanks guys I have spoken to lhbs he was not sure either, he is
      suggesting the use of crystal malt how do you think this would go.




      Morgan gave the clue. It's hops you have to steer clear of when
      making grain-based spirits. Specialty grains such as crystal malt
      are used by intermediate to advanced homebrewers to add color, body,
      taste, and aromatic properties to beer.

      Crystal malt is produced using a special malting process that allows
      some of the starches to be converted to simpler sugars (such as
      sucrose and maltose) inside the intact grain. These simple sugars
      are fermentable. However a significant percentage of more complex
      sugars remain intact and can add body, sweetness and mouth feel to a
      beer. This is somewhat the opposite of what a distiller requires.

      Distillers need to have the beer finish fermenting at a much lower
      SG (dry, under 1.000). IOW all or as much as possible of the
      starches converted to fermentable sugars, and all or mostly all of
      the sugars used up.

      Go with 6-row barley malted. It has more enzymatic activity (aka DP
      or Diastatic Power) than 2-row, and will convert any unmalted grains
      you want to use as the base, such as corn or rye.

      I urge you to read this short article. It will explain a lot about
      American style whiskies and what you need to do to be successful...
      http://tinyurl.com/87lx5


      Slainte!
      regards Harry
      Moderator





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sven Pfitt
      Plain and simple, it would probably suck. Whiskey is distilled beer which is made without hops. Your LHBS rep has no clue about which he speeks. Crystal has so
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 4, 2005
        Plain and simple, it would probably suck.

        Whiskey is distilled beer which is made without hops.

        Your LHBS rep has no clue about which he speeks. Crystal has so
        little diastatic power it can't convert it's own starches much less
        any adjuncts. It has had some starch already converted to sugar and
        crystalized by the heat process used to make it.

        Use either (1) 6-Row malted barley, (2) Pale Malted barley, (3) Pale
        Ale Malted barley, or (4) Pilsen malted barley.

        Grind the barley, add hot water in a ratio of 1qt/lb of malt and
        achieve a mash temp of 150f. Hold for an hour. Sparge, boil, chill,
        pitch with yeast and let it ferment out. Then distill it.

        If you wish to make bourbon, you will need to add adjuncts (51% Corn,
        Rye, etc) and the 6-Row malt or Pale Ale Malt will be your best (have
        the highest diastatic power) malt to do the mashing.

        Be forwarned that sparging high adjunct mashes can be a real PIA.

        Sven.

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Thanks guys I have spoken to lhbs he was not sure either, he is
        suggesting the use of crystal malt how do you think this would go.
        > .
        >
        >
        > morganfield1 <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
        > Hey Boggin,
        > Malted barley grain, available at your lhbs, is fine for whiskey.
        > What you may want to stay away from is the hopped malts. Some of
        the
        > hop flavor may come through the distillation process. Good luck,
        > Tip one,
        > Morgan
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > I have recently been advised that the pre malted barley grain
        used
        > for the making of beer is no good for the manafacture of bourbon or
        > whisky. Can anyone shed some light on this for me please.
        > > Is the malting of barley different for beer or whisky if so how
        is
        > it different.
        > > I have not used grain before so it will be a trail and error type
        > deal.
        .....snip.....
      • Peggy
        Hi Tom, Now is the time for YOU to do the run comparisons and let us know your results. YOU can be the scientific investigator. We all anxiously await your
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 4, 2005
          Hi Tom,

          Now is the time for YOU to do the run comparisons and let us know your
          results. YOU can be the scientific investigator. We all anxiously await
          your test results. Degradation is as important as building the enzymes. As
          we suggested during the training, the microbes are more important than the
          enzymes. This is a living breathing science. Not something that lends
          itself to bottling and packaging. And so in lies the limitations of
          commercializing this new industry. VIVA BEC!!!

          Thanks for the note,
          Best wishes,
          Peggy

          Peggy G Korth
          BioFuels Energy Corporation
          (830) 885-7409 Voice
          (830) 885-7416 Fax
          (210) 288-0999 Cell
          rpk@... Email
          www.biofuelsenergycorp.com


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of tset
          Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:26 PM
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: malted barley grain

          Gang, I am a newbie to this hobby. I have a bit more corn sprouted than
          I need. Can I freeze it for later use or will that kill the microbes. Or
          do I understand that the enzymes are already made and it makes no
          difference if the microbes are killed. .

          Thanks

          TomS

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of Sven Pfitt
          Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 2:35 PM
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Distillers] Re: malted barley grain

          Plain and simple, it would probably suck.

          Whiskey is distilled beer which is made without hops.

          Your LHBS rep has no clue about which he speeks. Crystal has so
          little diastatic power it can't convert it's own starches much less
          any adjuncts. It has had some starch already converted to sugar and
          crystalized by the heat process used to make it.

          Use either (1) 6-Row malted barley, (2) Pale Malted barley, (3) Pale
          Ale Malted barley, or (4) Pilsen malted barley.

          Grind the barley, add hot water in a ratio of 1qt/lb of malt and
          achieve a mash temp of 150f. Hold for an hour. Sparge, boil, chill,
          pitch with yeast and let it ferment out. Then distill it.

          If you wish to make bourbon, you will need to add adjuncts (51% Corn,
          Rye, etc) and the 6-Row malt or Pale Ale Malt will be your best (have
          the highest diastatic power) malt to do the mashing.

          Be forwarned that sparging high adjunct mashes can be a real PIA.

          Sven.

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Thanks guys I have spoken to lhbs he was not sure either, he is
          suggesting the use of crystal malt how do you think this would go.
          > .
          >
          >
          > morganfield1 <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
          > Hey Boggin,
          > Malted barley grain, available at your lhbs, is fine for whiskey.
          > What you may want to stay away from is the hopped malts. Some of
          the
          > hop flavor may come through the distillation process. Good luck,
          > Tip one,
          > Morgan
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > I have recently been advised that the pre malted barley grain
          used
          > for the making of beer is no good for the manafacture of bourbon or
          > whisky. Can anyone shed some light on this for me please.
          > > Is the malting of barley different for beer or whisky if so how
          is
          > it different.
          > > I have not used grain before so it will be a trail and error type
          > deal.
          .....snip.....






          Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
          FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



          _____

          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

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          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers> " on the web.

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
          FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
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        • tset
          Gang, I am a newbie to this hobby. I have a bit more corn sprouted than I need. Can I freeze it for later use or will that kill the microbes. Or do I
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 4, 2005
            Gang, I am a newbie to this hobby. I have a bit more corn sprouted than
            I need. Can I freeze it for later use or will that kill the microbes. Or
            do I understand that the enzymes are already made and it makes no
            difference if the microbes are killed. .

            Thanks

            TomS

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
            Behalf Of Sven Pfitt
            Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 2:35 PM
            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Distillers] Re: malted barley grain

            Plain and simple, it would probably suck.

            Whiskey is distilled beer which is made without hops.

            Your LHBS rep has no clue about which he speeks. Crystal has so
            little diastatic power it can't convert it's own starches much less
            any adjuncts. It has had some starch already converted to sugar and
            crystalized by the heat process used to make it.

            Use either (1) 6-Row malted barley, (2) Pale Malted barley, (3) Pale
            Ale Malted barley, or (4) Pilsen malted barley.

            Grind the barley, add hot water in a ratio of 1qt/lb of malt and
            achieve a mash temp of 150f. Hold for an hour. Sparge, boil, chill,
            pitch with yeast and let it ferment out. Then distill it.

            If you wish to make bourbon, you will need to add adjuncts (51% Corn,
            Rye, etc) and the 6-Row malt or Pale Ale Malt will be your best (have
            the highest diastatic power) malt to do the mashing.

            Be forwarned that sparging high adjunct mashes can be a real PIA.

            Sven.

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Thanks guys I have spoken to lhbs he was not sure either, he is
            suggesting the use of crystal malt how do you think this would go.
            > .
            >
            >
            > morganfield1 <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
            > Hey Boggin,
            > Malted barley grain, available at your lhbs, is fine for whiskey.
            > What you may want to stay away from is the hopped malts. Some of
            the
            > hop flavor may come through the distillation process. Good luck,
            > Tip one,
            > Morgan
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > I have recently been advised that the pre malted barley grain
            used
            > for the making of beer is no good for the manafacture of bourbon or
            > whisky. Can anyone shed some light on this for me please.
            > > Is the malting of barley different for beer or whisky if so how
            is
            > it different.
            > > I have not used grain before so it will be a trail and error type
            > deal.
            .....snip.....






            Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
            FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



            _____

            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

            * Visit your group " Distillers
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers> " on the web.

            * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

            * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

            _____



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • tset
            Ya Ya YA, You are assuming I have the skills for the Scientific documentation and all that. It requires good scales, a clean area, perhaps a micro scope,
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 4, 2005
              Ya Ya YA, You are assuming I have the skills for the Scientific
              documentation and all that. It requires good scales, a clean area,
              perhaps a micro scope, etc etc etc. I will help any one with any thing I
              am able to help with. This is an area where I am afraid I will not be
              much help. My findings will surely not have much value... LOL



              Tom

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
              Behalf Of Peggy
              Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 5:25 PM
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: malted barley grain

              Hi Tom,

              Now is the time for YOU to do the run comparisons and let us know your
              results. YOU can be the scientific investigator. We all anxiously await
              your test results. Degradation is as important as building the enzymes. As
              we suggested during the training, the microbes are more important than the
              enzymes. This is a living breathing science. Not something that lends
              itself to bottling and packaging. And so in lies the limitations of
              commercializing this new industry. VIVA BEC!!!

              Thanks for the note,
              Best wishes,
              Peggy

              Peggy G Korth
              BioFuels Energy Corporation
              (830) 885-7409 Voice
              (830) 885-7416 Fax
              (210) 288-0999 Cell
              rpk@... Email
              www.biofuelsenergycorp.com


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of tset
              Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:26 PM
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: malted barley grain

              Gang, I am a newbie to this hobby. I have a bit more corn sprouted than
              I need. Can I freeze it for later use or will that kill the microbes. Or
              do I understand that the enzymes are already made and it makes no
              difference if the microbes are killed. .

              Thanks

              TomS

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]On
              Behalf Of Sven Pfitt
              Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 2:35 PM
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: malted barley grain

              Plain and simple, it would probably suck.

              Whiskey is distilled beer which is made without hops.

              Your LHBS rep has no clue about which he speeks. Crystal has so
              little diastatic power it can't convert it's own starches much less
              any adjuncts. It has had some starch already converted to sugar and
              crystalized by the heat process used to make it.

              Use either (1) 6-Row malted barley, (2) Pale Malted barley, (3) Pale
              Ale Malted barley, or (4) Pilsen malted barley.

              Grind the barley, add hot water in a ratio of 1qt/lb of malt and
              achieve a mash temp of 150f. Hold for an hour. Sparge, boil, chill,
              pitch with yeast and let it ferment out. Then distill it.

              If you wish to make bourbon, you will need to add adjuncts (51% Corn,
              Rye, etc) and the 6-Row malt or Pale Ale Malt will be your best (have
              the highest diastatic power) malt to do the mashing.

              Be forwarned that sparging high adjunct mashes can be a real PIA.

              Sven.

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Thanks guys I have spoken to lhbs he was not sure either, he is
              suggesting the use of crystal malt how do you think this would go.
              > .
              >
              >
              > morganfield1 <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
              > Hey Boggin,
              > Malted barley grain, available at your lhbs, is fine for whiskey.
              > What you may want to stay away from is the hopped malts. Some of
              the
              > hop flavor may come through the distillation process. Good luck,
              > Tip one,
              > Morgan
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > I have recently been advised that the pre malted barley grain
              used
              > for the making of beer is no good for the manafacture of bourbon or
              > whisky. Can anyone shed some light on this for me please.
              > > Is the malting of barley different for beer or whisky if so how
              is
              > it different.
              > > I have not used grain before so it will be a trail and error type
              > deal.
              .....snip.....






              Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



              _____

              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

              * Visit your group " Distillers
              < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers> " on the web.

              * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

              * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

              _____



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
              Yahoo! Groups Links










              Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



              _____

              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

              * Visit your group " Distillers
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers> " on the web.

              * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

              * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

              _____



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • morganfield1
              Hi Guys, Actualy, I was refering to hopped barley malt extracts, but I couldn t think of the name (senior moment). Harry s right about the crystal malt, and
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 4, 2005
                Hi Guys,
                Actualy, I was refering to hopped barley malt extracts, but I
                couldn't think of the name (senior moment). Harry's right about the
                crystal malt, and most other specialty malts for beer making. Your
                looking for total starch conversion to "fermentable" sugars. And
                there is no sin (putting on my flack jacket, here) to adding pure
                sugar to you wert. Your making beer, but you're not dringing the
                beer, you're drinking the alchohol in the beer. The more, the
                merrier. If your making whiskey, you should stay with dextrose, give
                you more of a "whiskey taste". Now, if your trying to simulate a
                paricular brand, say "Jack Danials", then you'll have to follow a
                mash bill, but I'm rambling on. Good luck.
                Tip one, Morgan

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks guys I have spoken to lhbs he was not sure either, he is
                > suggesting the use of crystal malt how do you think this would go.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Morgan gave the clue. It's hops you have to steer clear of when
                > making grain-based spirits. Specialty grains such as crystal malt
                > are used by intermediate to advanced homebrewers to add color,
                body,
                > taste, and aromatic properties to beer.
                >
                > Crystal malt is produced using a special malting process that
                allows
                > some of the starches to be converted to simpler sugars (such as
                > sucrose and maltose) inside the intact grain. These simple sugars
                > are fermentable. However a significant percentage of more complex
                > sugars remain intact and can add body, sweetness and mouth feel to
                a
                > beer. This is somewhat the opposite of what a distiller requires.
                >
                > Distillers need to have the beer finish fermenting at a much lower
                > SG (dry, under 1.000). IOW all or as much as possible of the
                > starches converted to fermentable sugars, and all or mostly all of
                > the sugars used up.
                >
                > Go with 6-row barley malted. It has more enzymatic activity (aka
                DP
                > or Diastatic Power) than 2-row, and will convert any unmalted
                grains
                > you want to use as the base, such as corn or rye.
                >
                > I urge you to read this short article. It will explain a lot about
                > American style whiskies and what you need to do to be successful...
                > http://tinyurl.com/87lx5
                >
                >
                > Slainte!
                > regards Harry
                > Moderator
                >
              • Harry
                ... sprouted than ... microbes. Or ... Remove the rootlets. Kiln-dry it to 4% moisture. Store in airtight container(s). Slainte! regards Harry Moderator
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 4, 2005
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tset" <tset@h...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Gang, I am a newbie to this hobby. I have a bit more corn
                  sprouted than
                  > I need. Can I freeze it for later use or will that kill the
                  microbes. Or
                  > do I understand that the enzymes are already made and it makes no
                  > difference if the microbes are killed. .
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  >
                  > TomS



                  Remove the rootlets. Kiln-dry it to 4% moisture. Store in airtight
                  container(s).


                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                  Moderator
                • Dan Hoyt
                  make more than you need ! __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 4, 2005
                    make more than you need !



                    __________________________________
                    Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                    http://farechase.yahoo.com
                  • Boggin Bob
                    Thanks for the input to all who replied I wll be doing some homework this week to see what information I can gather locally. I have a few options to follow up
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 6, 2005
                      Thanks for the input to all who replied I wll be doing some homework this week to see what information I can gather locally.
                      I have a few options to follow up now with more accurate information.

                      Bogginbobbie

                      morganfield1 <morganfield1@...> wrote:
                      Hi Guys,
                      Actualy, I was refering to hopped barley malt extracts, but I
                      couldn't think of the name (senior moment). Harry's right about the
                      crystal malt, and most other specialty malts for beer making. Your
                      looking for total starch conversion to "fermentable" sugars. And
                      there is no sin (putting on my flack jacket, here) to adding pure
                      sugar to you wert. Your making beer, but you're not dringing the
                      beer, you're drinking the alchohol in the beer. The more, the
                      merrier. If your making whiskey, you should stay with dextrose, give
                      you more of a "whiskey taste". Now, if your trying to simulate a
                      paricular brand, say "Jack Danials", then you'll have to follow a
                      mash bill, but I'm rambling on. Good luck.
                      Tip one, Morgan

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Boggin Bob <bogginbobbie@y...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks guys I have spoken to lhbs he was not sure either, he is
                      > suggesting the use of crystal malt how do you think this would go.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Morgan gave the clue. It's hops you have to steer clear of when
                      > making grain-based spirits. Specialty grains such as crystal malt
                      > are used by intermediate to advanced homebrewers to add color,
                      body,
                      > taste, and aromatic properties to beer.
                      >
                      > Crystal malt is produced using a special malting process that
                      allows
                      > some of the starches to be converted to simpler sugars (such as
                      > sucrose and maltose) inside the intact grain. These simple sugars
                      > are fermentable. However a significant percentage of more complex
                      > sugars remain intact and can add body, sweetness and mouth feel to
                      a
                      > beer. This is somewhat the opposite of what a distiller requires.
                      >
                      > Distillers need to have the beer finish fermenting at a much lower
                      > SG (dry, under 1.000). IOW all or as much as possible of the
                      > starches converted to fermentable sugars, and all or mostly all of
                      > the sugars used up.
                      >
                      > Go with 6-row barley malted. It has more enzymatic activity (aka
                      DP
                      > or Diastatic Power) than 2-row, and will convert any unmalted
                      grains
                      > you want to use as the base, such as corn or rye.
                      >
                      > I urge you to read this short article. It will explain a lot about
                      > American style whiskies and what you need to do to be successful...
                      > http://tinyurl.com/87lx5
                      >
                      >
                      > Slainte!
                      > regards Harry
                      > Moderator
                      >






                      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                      FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



                      ---------------------------------
                      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                      Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.

                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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