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Re: [Distillers] Re: 92 pre cent or forced reflux

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  • DetCord
    ... How tight do your trays fit in the ID of the column? What is the tray made out of? Looks like copper but I ve not seen a fitting that would slide inside
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 6, 2005
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      looweegee123 wrote:

      >Stevo I made a mistake. The photos are on the new distillers photo
      >section under 92 per cent. Let me know if you think I should move them.
      > The out put is directly related to starting percentage in the
      >boiler. I did one run with the output of a stripping run (60%) and the
      >output was a stream not drops. As the percentage goes down naturally
      >the output slows, but the percentage stays the same. If the temps rise
      >increase cooling to the cartrige to maintain 170. I have had no
      >problem maintaining 92% to the end.
      > This is a proof of concept or a prototype. This one has 16 trays
      >spaced 3/4" apart. The next version will have 24 or 30 trays spaced
      >3/8 or 1/2" apart. Also the holes will be closer together and more of
      >them.
      >looweegee123
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      How tight do your trays fit in the ID of the column? What is the tray
      made out of? Looks like copper but I've not seen a fitting that would
      slide inside a 2-1/8" tube before. Wondering if you just cut a circle
      out of some shim stock and just curled up the edges...
      The center tube in the column, is that 7/8" tube? Is it capped top and
      bottom or open?

      Sorry for all the questions, but really like the design. Also,
      apologies in advance if you've posted details regarding this already.
      Detcord....soon to be distilling.
    • _{*L*}_
      For all people wishing to make a tray why not using readily available copper or stainless steel woven fabric? It surprised me since it should give more
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 7, 2005
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        For all people wishing to make a "tray" why not using readily available copper or stainless steel woven fabric? It surprised me since it should give more surface of contact, finer bubbling and easier manufacturing. It also would give a much denser tray placement. Is there any advantage in drilling 6 quarter inch holes over fine mesh? Seems strange....
        Also, I have not seed the down comer tubes. Perhaps I missed it, but without them present in the still the whole thing is a stone age snapshot of any packing material.

        DetCord <detcord@...> wrote:
        looweegee123 wrote:
        This is a proof of concept or a prototype. This one has 16 trays spaced 3/4" apart. The next version will have 24 or 30 trays spaced 3/8 or 1/2" apart. Also the holes will be closer together and more of them.

        Why not to extrapolate this concept a bit further for more holes and closer density... stuff it with what? right -- SCRUBBERS...





        _{*L*}_
        http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob


























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      • looweegee123
        ... available copper or stainless steel woven fabric? It surprised me since it should give more surface of contact, finer bubbling and easier manufacturing. It
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 7, 2005
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, _{*L*}_ <bokakob@y...> wrote:
          >
          > For all people wishing to make a "tray" why not using readily
          available copper or stainless steel woven fabric? It surprised me
          since it should give more surface of contact, finer bubbling and
          easier manufacturing. It also would give a much denser tray
          placement. Is there any advantage in drilling 6 quarter inch holes
          over fine mesh? Seems strange....
          > Also, I have not seed the down comer tubes. Perhaps I missed it,
          but without them present in the still the whole thing is a stone age
          snapshot of any packing material.
          >
          > DetCord <detcord@h...> wrote:
          > looweegee123 wrote:
          > This is a proof of concept or a prototype. This one has 16 trays
          spaced 3/4" apart. The next version will have 24 or 30 trays spaced
          3/8 or 1/2" apart. Also the holes will be closer together and more
          of them.
          >
          > Why not to extrapolate this concept a bit further for more holes
          and closer density... stuff it with what? right -- SCRUBBERS...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _{*L*}_
          > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          Bokakob: you are right to a point. the perfect solution is
          scrubbers. But (big point) The temp goes from whatever the boiler is
          at to 170 degrees F in the distance of 12". If the boiler is running
          full blast you are going to need some way to remove the excess heat
          to condense the water and allow the good stuff upward.
          Got a good sugestion to get that good thermal contact to the
          central cooling tube for a mesh?
          Look cxlosely at the photo 92 per cent / tray. the holes are
          designed to retain a small amount of condensate for the refluxing
          action. Excess fluid drops out the holes and there is enough holes
          so back pressure is not a problem.There is no need for downcomer
          tubes.
          The ultimate solution is to pack as many trays on as possible to
          make each temp change from one tray to the next upper one as small
          as possible.
          looweegee123
        • Brandon Lee
          Yes i m still here--haven t been on much--my girlfriends home sustained some damage in the storm but with a couple of weeks of work it is like new again--lots
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 10, 2005
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            Yes i'm still here--haven't been on much--my girlfriends home sustained some damage in the storm but with a couple of weeks of work it is like new again--lots of destruction that people can not even imaging if not seen with their own eyes--
            Congratulations on your percentage--i recently ran my unit but did not get but 90%--
            However i have some questions--i noticed that my unit once it starts boiling produces around 155degrees and by the time it gets to 170 it is smelling like cardboard--i suppose i must have my indicator in the wrong place--my unit is made a little different than the one that Les sent me the photo's of--it is like the plans for building your homedistillation apparatus on the distillers site--2.5"pipe for my column--24"long--cross over with a tee then to the condedsor--10 trays with 10 holes in each flow drilled--approx .75" apart--have used it 3-4 times and get different results each time--
            Could use some input --
            Thank u Curtis for all your help
            your brother in the spirits'
            Blueflame456

            BestDecker <bestdecker@...> wrote:


            Congrats, "looweegee".....

            92% is a great number to hit, I run the same type of rig, except my boiler is just a 20 litre stove top canning pot(SS) and my copper tower is 22 inches with 8 trays on the cartridge. Works excellent, and 92% seems so easy to get now.







            PS. Has anyone heard from "BLUEFLAME" since the hurricane in New Orleans?




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          • Robert Thomas
            Are you letting your wash settle before distilling? The cardboard could be yeast burning up. Also do you have copper in the vapour path? Plus, are you
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 10, 2005
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              Are you letting your wash settle before distilling?
              The cardboard 'could' be yeast burning up. Also do you
              have copper in the vapour path?
              Plus, are you letting the column stabilise before
              removing product?
              Cheers,
              Rob.


              --- Brandon Lee <blueflame456@...> wrote:

              > Yes i'm still here--haven't been on much--my
              > girlfriends home sustained some damage in the storm
              > but with a couple of weeks of work it is like new
              > again--lots of destruction that people can not even
              > imaging if not seen with their own eyes--
              > Congratulations on your percentage--i recently ran
              > my unit but did not get but 90%--
              > However i have some questions--i noticed that my
              > unit once it starts boiling produces around
              > 155degrees and by the time it gets to 170 it is
              > smelling like cardboard--i suppose i must have my
              > indicator in the wrong place--my unit is made a
              > little different than the one that Les sent me the
              > photo's of--it is like the plans for building your
              > homedistillation apparatus on the distillers
              > site--2.5"pipe for my column--24"long--cross over
              > with a tee then to the condedsor--10 trays with 10
              > holes in each flow drilled--approx .75" apart--have
              > used it 3-4 times and get different results each
              > time--
              > Could use some input --
              > Thank u Curtis for all your help
              > your brother in the spirits'
              > Blueflame456
              >
              > BestDecker <bestdecker@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Congrats, "looweegee".....
              >
              > 92% is a great number to hit, I run the same type
              > of rig, except my boiler is just a 20 litre stove
              > top canning pot(SS) and my copper tower is 22 inches
              > with 8 trays on the cartridge. Works excellent, and
              > 92% seems so easy to get now.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > PS. Has anyone heard from "BLUEFLAME" since the
              > hurricane in New Orleans?
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              > I'd read so much on the evil's of drinking....that I
              > quit reading.......
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief
              > effort.
              >
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              > http://archive.nnytech.net/
              > FAQ and other information at
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              Cheers,
              Rob.




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            • BestDecker
              Brandon..its good to hear from you again, its been awhile. Can you post pictures of your unit, maybe we can discover why you get such varible results. My unit
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 10, 2005
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                Brandon..its good to hear from you again, its been awhile. Can you post pictures of your unit, maybe we can discover why you get such varible results. My unit is really consistant..that is I get 92-93% everytime..but I think its a combination of temperature of the water and the feed rate, to the inside of the cartridge that controls the amount of forced reflux that I get. As a power source, I just run off of the small burner on an electric stove/range top, as high as it will go and I allow the water feed rate from the tap to be controlled/reduced with a inline valve till I get the right speed and produce the right %.(thats after I get it to equalize for 1/2hr or so) Than I let it go on its own, till the power in/product out ratio drops to a slow rate than shut down. All of my washes are sugar and I use Prestige turbo 48 from 'brewhaus.ca' with excellent results all the time.

                You have tried the insulation, we spoke of earlier?That will bring your % up a notch or two.

                also, as mentioned the feed rate, and temperature is really 'testy' ,I had to play with mine alot, the first few runs to get it right.

                Hope this helps,
                and again ,I'm glad that things are well with you,...,.We can always make better booze later........Curtis

                Brandon Lee <blueflame456@...> wrote:....snip...i suppose i must have my indicator in the wrong place--my unit is made a little different than the one that Les sent me the photo's of--it is like the plans for building your homedistillation apparatus on the distillers site--2.5"pipe for my column--24"long--cross over with a tee then to the condedsor--10 trays with 10 holes in each flow drilled--approx .75" apart--have used it 3-4 times and get different results each time--
                Could use some input --
                Thank u Curtis for all your help
                your brother in the spirits'
                Blueflame456





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              • Brandon Lee
                Curtis--thanks for the info once again--i had not been letting it equalize --i run 2 heating elements--one 2000 and one 3000 watt--i let them both heat up
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 11, 2005
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                  Curtis--thanks for the info once again--i had not been letting it equalize --i run 2 heating elements--one 2000 and one 3000 watt--i let them both heat up then turn the smaller one off--but i don't let it equalize--maybe i should try one more batch before it gets too cold and try this--here are some photo's --if i knew how to post on the distillers website i would --not really good at puter stuff--so need help there as well--
                  regarde'
                  Blueflame456

                  BestDecker <bestdecker@...> wrote:
                  Brandon..its good to hear from you again, its been awhile. Can you post pictures of your unit, maybe we can discover why you get such varible results. My unit is really consistant..that is I get 92-93% everytime..but I think its a combination of temperature of the water and the feed rate, to the inside of the cartridge that controls the amount of forced reflux that I get. As a power source, I just run off of the small burner on an electric stove/range top, as high as it will go and I allow the water feed rate from the tap to be controlled/reduced with a inline valve till I get the right speed and produce the right %.(thats after I get it to equalize for 1/2hr or so) Than I let it go on its own, till the power in/product out ratio drops to a slow rate than shut down. All of my washes are sugar and I use Prestige turbo 48 from 'brewhaus.ca' with excellent results all the time.

                  You have tried the insulation, we spoke of earlier?That will bring your % up a notch or two.

                  also, as mentioned the feed rate, and temperature is really 'testy' ,I had to play with mine alot, the first few runs to get it right.

                  Hope this helps,
                  and again ,I'm glad that things are well with you,...,.We can always make better booze later........Curtis

                  Brandon Lee <blueflame456@...> wrote:....snip...i suppose i must have my indicator in the wrong place--my unit is made a little different than the one that Les sent me the photo's of--it is like the plans for building your homedistillation apparatus on the distillers site--2.5"pipe for my column--24"long--cross over with a tee then to the condedsor--10 trays with 10 holes in each flow drilled--approx .75" apart--have used it 3-4 times and get different results each time--
                  Could use some input --
                  Thank u Curtis for all your help
                  your brother in the spirits'
                  Blueflame456





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                • Brandon Lee
                  More of the still- hope this helps--let me know if u think i have to make any changes-- your brother in the spirits Blueflame BestDecker
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 11, 2005
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                    More of the still- hope this helps--let me know if u think i have to make any changes--
                    your brother in the spirits
                    Blueflame

                    BestDecker <bestdecker@...> wrote:
                    Brandon..its good to hear from you again, its been awhile. Can you post pictures of your unit, maybe we can discover why you get such varible results. My unit is really consistant..that is I get 92-93% everytime..but I think its a combination of temperature of the water and the feed rate, to the inside of the cartridge that controls the amount of forced reflux that I get. As a power source, I just run off of the small burner on an electric stove/range top, as high as it will go and I allow the water feed rate from the tap to be controlled/reduced with a inline valve till I get the right speed and produce the right %.(thats after I get it to equalize for 1/2hr or so) Than I let it go on its own, till the power in/product out ratio drops to a slow rate than shut down. All of my washes are sugar and I use Prestige turbo 48 from 'brewhaus.ca' with excellent results all the time.

                    You have tried the insulation, we spoke of earlier?That will bring your % up a notch or two.

                    also, as mentioned the feed rate, and temperature is really 'testy' ,I had to play with mine alot, the first few runs to get it right.

                    Hope this helps,
                    and again ,I'm glad that things are well with you,...,.We can always make better booze later........Curtis

                    Brandon Lee <blueflame456@...> wrote:....snip...i suppose i must have my indicator in the wrong place--my unit is made a little different than the one that Les sent me the photo's of--it is like the plans for building your homedistillation apparatus on the distillers site--2.5"pipe for my column--24"long--cross over with a tee then to the condedsor--10 trays with 10 holes in each flow drilled--approx .75" apart--have used it 3-4 times and get different results each time--
                    Could use some input --
                    Thank u Curtis for all your help
                    your brother in the spirits'
                    Blueflame456





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                  • BestDecker
                    Brandon......It s always a good idea to do one more batch,.....More booze...right? Maybe that s the problem!,...not letting it equalize,...that s real
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 11, 2005
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                      Brandon......It's 'always' a good idea to do one more batch,.....More booze...right?
                      Maybe that's the problem!,...not letting it equalize,...that's real simple!(?). when you notice, that the temperature starts to rise,(say, above 20-30C), you can adjust the flow/rate of cooling water to the cartridge/tower, I allow the product to boil ferverishly on full boil, as I try to bring the temperature up at about 10C intervals, at 10 minute intervals,...You'll know you are there, when the sound of the boiling wash softens,.....that is to say, there isn't all the hissing and gurgling,...you than know your wash is at full boiling temperature, and you can slowly bring your temps up (at the top of your tower) to the78C mark......Does your thermometer read at/neat the take-off to the condensor?..... I find that after I'm there, I don't have to worry about that end of the unit anymore, as it stabilizes!...until you run out of product. I still try to regulate the speed, in which I take off the heads, using the water flow/rate for about the first 200Mls. Than I set the condensor's
                      rate, and let'r rip into a 2 gallon jug.....comes out as a steady stream, about 5-600mls per hour........only than stopping about every second or third time ,on my way to Beer fridge, to check that everythings OK!....(takes about 6-1/2hrs for 25L wash)...an eerry silence..........
                      What a guy can still drink Beer and distill alcohol too.......can't He?LMAO.......................

                      I did'nt get the pictures, as Yahoo forums doesn't allow attatchments...Send them to me direcly, at the address above, or, you can get some assistance from someone that knows how to post pictures .......I too, am not a 'puter geek...

                      I've read so much about the evils of Drinking..that I've quit reading...WC.Fields

                      Brandon Lee <blueflame456@...> wrote:
                      Curtis--thanks for the info once again--i had not been letting it equalize --i run 2 heating elements--one 2000 and one 3000 watt--i let them both heat up then turn the smaller one off--but i don't let it equalize--maybe i should try one more batch



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                    • BestDecker
                      Brandon...I just thought of something...(WOW!) Make sure that the IN cooling water line, into Your cartridge/tower, is indeed, actually going into the
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 11, 2005
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                        Brandon...I just thought of something...(WOW!)

                        Make sure that the 'IN' cooling water line, into Your cartridge/tower, is indeed, actually going into the smaller, inside, downward piping, so that the coolest water goes directly to the bottom of the cartridge, allowing the alcohol vapour with the lest amount of water to rise to the next tray/level. Effectively knocking out most of the water at its lowest point. As the hot vapour rises, less and less water is actually knocked out, but the alcohol is allowed to reflux, by condensation,(forced)on the cooler surfaces, allowing seperation. Only when a substantial amount of the water is returned to the boiler, and the vapour begins to boil, does it move up another tray/level,leaving some water behind. Gradually becoming more 'pure' until, at the take off point, You have alcohol vapour at 78C at,and, let's say 92-93% ABV. My cartridge doesn't have any downcomers,......but at 92-93% I don't think I need them,..Do I?
                        If You hook up the other way around, You'll encounter temerature fluctuations similar to those You mentioned, and it's hard to control, no matter how much cool water You can throw at it!. I just now remembered my first time, and 1/2 of my second try was all FUBAR'd till I noticed it...now all's fine.....
                        BIG Thanx to Les for all of his patience and help.....







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                      • looweegee123
                        I would like to make several sugestions: add more trays to the cartrige. This makes the temperature jumps smaller reorient the temp sensor to read the vapor
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 12, 2005
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                          I would like to make several sugestions:
                          add more trays to the cartrige. This makes the temperature jumps
                          smaller
                          reorient the temp sensor to read the vapor temp to the condensor
                          add a temp sensor the bottom of the cartrige or column. stop taking
                          when the inlet temps get around 210 f
                          looweegee123
                        • Brandon Lee
                          Curtis--after a quick check of my tray unit it seems that i was doing it wrong--i had the water in valve onthe large pipe exhausting to the smaller
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 12, 2005
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                            Curtis--after a quick check of my tray unit it seems that i was doing it wrong--i had the water in valve onthe large pipe exhausting to the smaller one--thanks so much for the imput--i'll put on another batch and try this--something so simple--
                            regarde'
                            Blueflame456
                            did u get the photo's of the unit
                            what do u think


                            BestDecker <bestdecker@...> wrote:
                            Brandon...I just thought of something...(WOW!)

                            Make sure that the 'IN' cooling water line, into Your cartridge/tower, is indeed, actually going into the smaller, inside, downward piping, so that the coolest water goes directly to the bottom of the cartridge, allowing the alcohol vapour with the lest amount of water to rise to the next tray/level. Effectively knocking out most of the water at its lowest point. As the hot vapour rises, less and less water is actually knocked out, but the alcohol is allowed to reflux, by condensation,(forced)on the cooler surfaces, allowing seperation. Only when a substantial amount of the water is returned to the boiler, and the vapour begins to boil, does it move up another tray/level,leaving some water behind. Gradually becoming more 'pure' until, at the take off point, You have alcohol vapour at 78C at,and, let's say 92-93% ABV. My cartridge doesn't have any downcomers,......but at 92-93% I don't think I need them,..Do I?
                            If You hook up the other way around, You'll encounter temerature fluctuations similar to those You mentioned, and it's hard to control, no matter how much cool water You can throw at it!. I just now remembered my first time, and 1/2 of my second try was all FUBAR'd till I noticed it...now all's fine.....
                            BIG Thanx to Les for all of his patience and help.....







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                          • Just Me
                            hey your photos of your 92% still are no longer available on new distiller could you please send them to me direct to owen1@orcon.net.nz looweegee123
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 11, 2005
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                              hey your photos of your 92% still are no longer available on new distiller could you please send them to me direct to owen1@...

                              looweegee123 <looweegee123@...> wrote: First my thanks to Bokacob and Stevo for showing what works and does
                              not work.
                              Check out the photo's and see the 92 per cent.
                              Basicly the concept is this:
                              If 92% boils at 170 f
                              then 170 f vapor will condense to 92 % liqiod.
                              Dimensions
                              Boiler 1.5 gal s/s pressure cooker.
                              Column 2" copper pipe 17" tall
                              Cartrige 3/8 copper pipe with a smaller tube going down to the
                              bottom for cooling. 16 trays with holes made by punchig with
                              sharpened tool. This allows liquid tom be retained at each layer and
                              to allow excess to drain down and vapor to go up.
                              condenser 1 1/5 copper shell 7" long. 14 cooling tubes inside.
                              To operate:
                              run boiler at high heat thru the entire run.
                              adjust out put by the coolant to the cartrige. At the start set for
                              a slow drip and collect the fore shots. thereafter set coolant flow
                              to maintain 170 f or less for the run. It produces very clean
                              product with no smells or bad taste. looweegee123






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