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Re: thanks guys

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  • Harry
    ... Rufus, it still doesn t look right to me. It looks to me like you ve still got the water hookup wrong. There s several ways to run the water lines in
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 30 6:39 AM
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      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rufus3h" <postino_no1@h...> wrote:
      > Thanks guys for help with the fine tunning of my new still, i just
      > fired it up and produced 2 liters of fine distilate - wohooo. As you
      > guys recomended i changed the position of my thermometer and the flow
      > direction of the water and now all is fine.
      >
      > An updated picture is ava under Rufus in photos along with my new
      > flash harry aro couplers.
      >
      > Thanks again
      >
      > P.S. have you ever considered ditching yahoo groups? the forum set up
      > is not very user friendly.



      Rufus, it still doesn't look right to me. It looks to me like you've
      still got the water hookup wrong. There's several ways to run the
      water lines in your type of rig, but ALL of them require the water
      feed to go into the BOTTOM port of the condensers, NOT the top. From
      your new photo, it looks like you're feeding the TOP of either the
      final condenser or the column condenser, and you have 2 regulator
      valves on one water feedline between the 2 condensers.

      Let's look at the principle of how your rig is designed. You have 2
      condensers. The first (reflux or column) condenser is designed to
      regulate reflux by partially cooling some of the vapour that passes up
      the coils, thus returning some liquid to the column, and letting the
      remaining vapour carry through to the second (offset or product)
      condenser for collection. The amount of reflux is governed by the
      amount of heat removed from the passing vapour, thus by the amount of
      water you let through the reflux condenser. Too much and it knocks
      down ALL the vapour (total reflux). Too little and ALL the vapour
      goes to the product condenser (nil reflux). What you have is a
      COOLANT MANAGEMENT still, but you have little coolant control.

      As I said before, there are several ways to hook up the water to this
      outfit.

      One way involves running the warm output from the top of the product
      condenser into the bottom input of the reflux condenser. This setup
      would be regulated by the cold water tap (faucet). Because this water
      has already been warmed, the amount of potential cooling for reflux is
      diminished, thus allowing some vapour to go to the product condenser.
      This setup is often seen in commercially built hobby stills but in my
      opinion is far too finicky in adjustment for the average person to
      regulate. If the two condenser's are hooked in series, then ANY water-
      flow regulation ANYWHERE in the line will affect BOTH condensers. A
      much better method is to be able to regulate the reflux condenser's
      water-flow independently of the product condenser's waterflow. This
      will achieve total coolant control. By shutting off the water to the
      reflux condenser, you can simulate a potstill run, using only the
      product condenser. By cracking open the reflux water-flow, you run
      under reflux at whatever ratio you want. By fully opening the reflux
      water-flow, you have total reflux for equilibration. The product
      condenser water-flow of course is always running, but it too can be
      regulated from nothing to full cooling capacity.

      I've done a little photoshop work on your new pic (See photos B and C
      in Rufus folder in photos). This is the preferred method of hookup.
      The flowrate to each condenser can be controlled independently of the
      other. Thus reflux can be controlled precisely, and water flow to the
      product condenser can also be regulated up or down as required.


      HTH
      Slainte!
      regards Harry

      ps.
      Rufus, (and others), it's not a good idea to delete pics & sketches
      used to identify faults, at least until you're satisfied that things
      are working right, or the groups members give a nod of approval.
      Someone accessing late in the thread may pick up something that others
      haven't seen, but of course they can't if the pics have already been
      removed.

      H
    • rufus3h
      Thanks Harry for the help, this method you have suggested is the one i am using its just the tee is hidden behind the still in my picture. One problem i did
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 30 5:09 PM
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        Thanks Harry for the help, this method you have suggested is the one i
        am using its just the tee is hidden behind the still in my picture.
        One problem i did face was the amount of reflux to use, the
        distilation once up to tempreture took about three hours. This was
        using a very minimal amount of water in the reflux condenser, say
        about 5 deg turn on the valve. When i turned it even a little the
        tempreture would drop right off and no product was produced so i am
        guessing it worked. My new "homer" at work will be to make a parrots
        beak so i can mesure purity as i have nothing tall enough to measure
        it in :)

        Another issue i have to look into it the potentiometer i am using. I
        purchased a 2000w element and what looks like a potentiometer for an
        oven. When i get it up to tempreture i turn it t about 8 o'clock
        (around 1500W) and it seems to boil stop boil stop in cycles of 10 sec
        or so. This sends my anoyingly sensitive digi thermometer into temp
        swings of 75 - 82 deg. The distilate however seems to come of prety
        constant. Do you think this will be an issue? i am worried with the
        temp swing i am getting fuesils(?) in my distillate. I am polishing
        now so will find out in a few days i guess.

        Thanks for the help harry, are you from NZ by any chance? this
        community seems to dominated by NZers?





        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rufus3h" <postino_no1@h...> wrote:
        > > Thanks guys for help with the fine tunning of my new still, i just
        > > fired it up and produced 2 liters of fine distilate - wohooo. As you
        > > guys recomended i changed the position of my thermometer and the flow
        > > direction of the water and now all is fine.
        > >
        > > An updated picture is ava under Rufus in photos along with my new
        > > flash harry aro couplers.
        > >
        > > Thanks again
        > >
        > > P.S. have you ever considered ditching yahoo groups? the forum set up
        > > is not very user friendly.
        >
        >
        >
        > Rufus, it still doesn't look right to me. It looks to me like you've
        > still got the water hookup wrong. There's several ways to run the
        > water lines in your type of rig, but ALL of them require the water
        > feed to go into the BOTTOM port of the condensers, NOT the top. From
        > your new photo, it looks like you're feeding the TOP of either the
        > final condenser or the column condenser, and yo




        u have 2 regulator
        > valves on one water feedline between the 2 cond
        ensers.
        >
        > Let's look at the principle of how your rig is designed. You have 2
        > condensers. The first (reflux or column) condenser is designed to
        > regulate reflux by partially cooling some of the vapour that passes up
        > the coils, thus returning some liquid to the column, and letting the
        > remaining vapour carry through to the second (offset or product)
        > condenser for collection. The amount of reflux is governed by the
        > amount of heat removed from the passing vapour, thus by the amount of
        > water you let through the reflux condenser. Too much and it knocks
        > down ALL the vapour (total reflux). Too little and ALL the vapour
        > goes to the product condenser (nil reflux). What you have is a
        > COOLANT MANAGEMENT still, but you have little coolant control.
        >
        > As I said before, there are several ways to hook up the water to this
        > outfit.
        >
        > One way involves running the warm output from the top of the product
        > condenser into the bottom input of the reflux condenser. This setup
        > would be regulated by the cold water tap (faucet). Because this water
        > has already been warmed, the amount of potential cooling for reflux is
        > diminished, thus allowing some vapour to go to the product condenser.
        > This setup is often seen in commercially built hobby stills but in my
        > opinion is far too finicky in adjustment for the average person to
        > regulate. If the two condenser's are hooked in series, then ANY water-
        > flow regulation ANYWHERE in the line will affect BOTH condensers. A
        > much better method is to be able to regulate the reflux condenser's
        > water-flow independently of the product condenser's waterflow. This
        > will achieve total coolant control. By shutting off the water to the
        > reflux condenser, you can simulate a potstill run, using only the
        > product condenser. By cracking open the reflux water-flow, you run
        > under reflux at whatever ratio you want. By fully opening the reflux
        > water-flow, you have total reflux for equilibration. The product
        > condenser water-flow of course is always running, but it too can be
        > regulated from nothing to full cooling capacity.
        >
        > I've done a little photoshop work on your new pic (See photos B and C
        > in Rufus folder in photos). This is the preferred method of hookup.
        > The flowrate to each condenser can be controlled independently of the
        > other. Thus reflux can be controlled precisely, and water flow to the
        > product condenser can also be regulated up or down as required.
        >
        >
        > HTH
        > Slainte!
        > regards Harry
        >
        > ps.
        > Rufus, (and others), it's not a good idea to delete pics & sketches
        > used to identify faults, at least until you're satisfied that things
        > are working right, or the groups members give a nod of approval.
        > Someone accessing late in the thread may pick up something that others
        > haven't seen, but of course they can't if the pics have already been
        > removed.
        >
        > H
      • Lindsay Williams
        Omigosh, you have sent Harry away in a huff. Oh, dear, you need educating in Aussie/NZ protocols. Rule one - never call an Aussie a New Zealander. Rule two -
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 30 7:13 PM
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          Omigosh, you have sent Harry away in a huff. Oh, dear, you need
          educating in Aussie/NZ protocols.

          Rule one - never call an Aussie a New Zealander.
          Rule two - never call a New Zealander an Aussie.
          Rule three - never tell an Aussie list manager that his group is
          dominated by NZers.

          Harry, the Aussie, is da boss, right?

          A non-dominating NZer,
          Lindsay.

          > Thanks for the help harry, are you from NZ by any chance? this
          > community seems to dominated by NZers?
          >
          >
        • Harry
          ... one i ... .........................That explains everything. In your pic, you re running 1 inlet to a Tee-piece behind the column, which branches to 2
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 30 7:33 PM
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            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rufus3h" <postino_no1@h...>
            wrote:
            > Thanks Harry for the help, this method you have suggested is the
            one i
            > am using its just the tee is hidden behind the still in my picture.


            .........................That explains everything. In your pic,
            you're running 1 inlet to a Tee-piece behind the column, which
            branches to 2 flow valves, through the bottom inlets of the
            condensers, and then out 2 draintubes to waste. That right?
            Disregard what I did to your pic. However, the info may be useful
            to someone else as a clarification.


            > One problem i did face was the amount of reflux to use, the
            > distilation once up to tempreture took about three hours. This was
            > using a very minimal amount of water in the reflux condenser, say
            > about 5 deg turn on the valve. When i turned it even a little the
            > tempreture would drop right off and no product was produced so i am
            > guessing it worked. My new "homer" at work will be to make a
            parrots
            > beak so i can mesure purity as i have nothing tall enough to
            measure
            > it in :)
            >
            > Another issue i have to look into it the potentiometer i am using.
            I
            > purchased a 2000w element and what looks like a potentiometer for
            an
            > oven. When i get it up to tempreture i turn it t about 8 o'clock
            > (around 1500W) and it seems to boil stop boil stop in cycles of 10
            sec
            > or so. This sends my anoyingly sensitive digi thermometer into temp
            > swings of 75 - 82 deg. The distilate however seems to come of prety
            > constant. Do you think this will be an issue? i am worried with the
            > temp swing i am getting fuesils(?) in my distillate. I am polishing
            > now so will find out in a few days i guess.





            .....................What you have is a bi-metal strip temp
            adjuster. They are useless for fine control, because of the on-off
            cycling, as you have discovered. Get a burst-fire Sutronics
            controller. Look in Links -> Essential Links -> Where Can I Get... -
            > Electric Power Control -> Sutronics Burst-Fired controllers.

            Or just jump to here...
            http://www.sutronics.com/acatalog/Burst_fired_Controllers.html





            >
            > Thanks for the help harry, are you from NZ by any chance? this
            > community seems to dominated by NZers?


            WASH YER MOUTH!!!! :o), j/k) Nah, not an 'Un-Zudder'. Oz.
            Bananabender, in fact ( that'll confuse the hell outta the Seps,
            mebbe even the Poms, eh Rob???. ;-)
            All friendly banter, no malice intended.


            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • Harry
            ... ROFLMAO!!!! sokay, Lindsay. :-)) We ll give em one faux pas. After that, it s pistols at dawn . ;) Slainte! regards Harry
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 30 7:43 PM
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x> wrote:
              > Omigosh, you have sent Harry away in a huff. Oh, dear, you need
              > educating in Aussie/NZ protocols.
              >
              > Rule one - never call an Aussie a New Zealander.
              > Rule two - never call a New Zealander an Aussie.
              > Rule three - never tell an Aussie list manager that his group is
              > dominated by NZers.
              >
              > Harry, the Aussie, is da boss, right?
              >
              > A non-dominating NZer,
              > Lindsay.



              ROFLMAO!!!! 'sokay, Lindsay. :-)) We'll give 'em one faux pas.
              After that, it's 'pistols at dawn'. ;)


              Slainte!
              regards Harry
            • Lmemarime
              If he really wants to stir things up let him ask. Whats the difference? ... Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 30 8:11 PM
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                If he really wants to stir things up let him ask. Whats the difference?


                ---------------------------------
                Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
                Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lindsay Williams
                Yep, giving a guy one break is the Anzac way! Lindsay.
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 30 9:13 PM
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                  Yep, giving a guy one break is the Anzac way!

                  Lindsay.

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x> wrote:
                  > > Omigosh, you have sent Harry away in a huff. Oh, dear, you need
                  > > educating in Aussie/NZ protocols.
                  > >
                  > > Rule one - never call an Aussie a New Zealander.
                  > > Rule two - never call a New Zealander an Aussie.
                  > > Rule three - never tell an Aussie list manager that his group is
                  > > dominated by NZers.
                  > >
                  > > Harry, the Aussie, is da boss, right?
                  > >
                  > > A non-dominating NZer,
                  > > Lindsay.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ROFLMAO!!!! 'sokay, Lindsay. :-)) We'll give 'em one faux pas.
                  > After that, it's 'pistols at dawn'. ;)
                  >
                  >
                  > Slainte!
                  > regards Harry
                • Lindsay Williams
                  Oooooooh!!
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 30 9:14 PM
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                    Oooooooh!!

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Lmemarime <lmemarine@y...> wrote:
                    > If he really wants to stir things up let him ask. Whats the difference?
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
                    > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • rufus3h
                    Haha thats ok, i forgive you for being Australian. Rufus(NZ)
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 31 12:13 AM
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                      Haha thats ok, i forgive you for being Australian.

                      Rufus(NZ)

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rufus3h" <postino_no1@h...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > Thanks Harry for the help, this method you have suggested is the
                      > one i
                      > > am using its just the tee is hidden behind the still in my picture.
                      >
                      >
                      > .........................That explains everything. In your pic,
                      > you're running 1 inlet to a Tee-piece behind the column, which
                      > branches to 2 flow valves, through the bottom inlets of the
                      > condensers, and then out 2 draintubes to waste. That right?
                      > Disregard what I did to your pic. However, the info may be useful
                      > to someone else as a clarification.
                      >
                      >
                      > > One problem i did face was the amount of reflux to use, the
                      > > distilation once up to tempreture took about three hours. This was
                      > > using a very minimal amount of water in the reflux condenser, say
                      > > about 5 deg turn on the valve. When i turned it even a little the
                      > > tempreture would drop right off and no product was produced so i am
                      > > guessing it worked. My new "homer" at work will be to make a
                      > parrots
                      > > beak so i can mesure purity as i have nothing tall enough to
                      > measure
                      > > it in :)
                      > >
                      > > Another issue i have to look into it the potentiometer i am using.
                      > I
                      > > purchased a 2000w element and what looks like a potentiometer for
                      > an
                      > > oven. When i get it up to tempreture i turn it t about 8 o'clock
                      > > (around 1500W) and it seems to boil stop boil stop in cycles of 10
                      > sec
                      > > or so. This sends my anoyingly sensitive digi thermometer into temp
                      > > swings of 75 - 82 deg. The distilate however seems to come of prety
                      > > constant. Do you think this will be an issue? i am worried with the
                      > > temp swing i am getting fuesils(?) in my distillate. I am polishing
                      > > now so will find out in a few days i guess.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > .....................What you have is a bi-metal strip temp
                      > adjuster. They are useless for fine control, because of the on-off
                      > cycling, as you have discovered. Get a burst-fire Sutronics
                      > controller. Look in Links -> Essential Links -> Where Can I Get... -
                      > > Electric Power Control -> Sutronics Burst-Fired controllers.
                      >
                      > Or just jump to here...
                      > http://www.sutronics.com/acatalog/Burst_fired_Controllers.html
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for the help harry, are you from NZ by any chance? this
                      > > community seems to dominated by NZers?
                      >
                      >
                      > WASH YER MOUTH!!!! :o), j/k) Nah, not an 'Un-Zudder'. Oz.
                      > Bananabender, in fact ( that'll confuse the hell outta the Seps,
                      > mebbe even the Poms, eh Rob???. ;-)
                      > All friendly banter, no malice intended.
                      >
                      >
                      > Slainte!
                      > regards Harry
                    • Robert Thomas
                      Harry, I refuse to be drawn into an argument about you criminally derived, sporty types! I have a serious megraine! Or it might be the several bottles of
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 31 5:50 AM
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                        Harry, I refuse to be drawn into an argument about you
                        criminally derived, sporty types! I have a serious
                        megraine! Or it might be the several bottles of
                        Belgian beers I had at a barbee yesterday. Oh heck,
                        now you're going to tell me you invented BBQ's aswell!
                        Well, if you invented hangovers, you can keep them!
                        Pom.


                        --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rufus3h"
                        > <postino_no1@h...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > Thanks Harry for the help, this method you have
                        > suggested is the
                        > one i
                        > > am using its just the tee is hidden behind the
                        > still in my picture.
                        >
                        >
                        > .........................That explains everything.
                        > In your pic,
                        > you're running 1 inlet to a Tee-piece behind the
                        > column, which
                        > branches to 2 flow valves, through the bottom inlets
                        > of the
                        > condensers, and then out 2 draintubes to waste.
                        > That right?
                        > Disregard what I did to your pic. However, the info
                        > may be useful
                        > to someone else as a clarification.
                        >
                        >
                        > > One problem i did face was the amount of reflux to
                        > use, the
                        > > distilation once up to tempreture took about three
                        > hours. This was
                        > > using a very minimal amount of water in the reflux
                        > condenser, say
                        > > about 5 deg turn on the valve. When i turned it
                        > even a little the
                        > > tempreture would drop right off and no product was
                        > produced so i am
                        > > guessing it worked. My new "homer" at work will be
                        > to make a
                        > parrots
                        > > beak so i can mesure purity as i have nothing tall
                        > enough to
                        > measure
                        > > it in :)
                        > >
                        > > Another issue i have to look into it the
                        > potentiometer i am using.
                        > I
                        > > purchased a 2000w element and what looks like a
                        > potentiometer for
                        > an
                        > > oven. When i get it up to tempreture i turn it t
                        > about 8 o'clock
                        > > (around 1500W) and it seems to boil stop boil stop
                        > in cycles of 10
                        > sec
                        > > or so. This sends my anoyingly sensitive digi
                        > thermometer into temp
                        > > swings of 75 - 82 deg. The distilate however seems
                        > to come of prety
                        > > constant. Do you think this will be an issue? i am
                        > worried with the
                        > > temp swing i am getting fuesils(?) in my
                        > distillate. I am polishing
                        > > now so will find out in a few days i guess.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > .....................What you have is a bi-metal
                        > strip temp
                        > adjuster. They are useless for fine control,
                        > because of the on-off
                        > cycling, as you have discovered. Get a burst-fire
                        > Sutronics
                        > controller. Look in Links -> Essential Links ->
                        > Where Can I Get... -
                        > > Electric Power Control -> Sutronics Burst-Fired
                        > controllers.
                        >
                        > Or just jump to here...
                        >
                        http://www.sutronics.com/acatalog/Burst_fired_Controllers.html
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for the help harry, are you from NZ by any
                        > chance? this
                        > > community seems to dominated by NZers?
                        >
                        >
                        > WASH YER MOUTH!!!! :o), j/k) Nah, not an
                        > 'Un-Zudder'. Oz.
                        > Bananabender, in fact ( that'll confuse the hell
                        > outta the Seps,
                        > mebbe even the Poms, eh Rob???. ;-)
                        > All friendly banter, no malice intended.
                        >
                        >
                        > Slainte!
                        > regards Harry
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


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