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Re: [Distillers] Re: Bicarbonate and esters? proper terminology

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  • Robert Thomas
    ... It s been a decade since I taught PhD students (G) but saponification is the conversion of high molecular weight esters into alcohols and hight MW acid
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 1, 2005
      Hi Michael:

      --- Michael <hexenwolfe@...> wrote:

      > Regarding the proper use of terms... You are
      > correct, it is a
      > hydrolysis reaction in that you are adding a water
      > molecule to an
      > ester bond to create etoh and co2. I am less certain
      > about the use of
      > the term "saponification" as a general descriptor of
      > hydrolysis in an
      > alkaline pH. It has been decades since I took
      > O-chem, but I thought
      > saponification involved the formation of a metallic
      > salt from a
      > esterified fatty acid? i.e. making sodium stearate
      > from sodium
      > hydroxide and a triglyceride fat. Refresh my memory.

      It's been a decade since I taught PhD students (G) but
      saponification is the conversion of high molecular
      weight esters into alcohols and hight MW acid SALTS.
      Without lye we wouldn't have soap. While the process
      could be carried out without alkali it would take
      forever.


      > In the clearing
      > of ethyl acetate we are not forming a metallic salt,
      > just performing
      > an alkaline hydrolysis.
      Alc-Acid + sod- carb + H2O = alcOH + sod-Acid +CO2
      It doesn't balance, but you get the idea. There is
      definately an acid salt.

      > Regarding the use of the term "stripping"... I
      > plead carlessness. I
      > should more accurately have used the term "first
      > distillation". I have
      > a commercially available column still available from
      > Brewhause.com.
      > This still only operates at one setting. It does not
      > have adjustable
      > reflux. It is efficient in that I can clear 9
      > gallons of 18-20%(I use
      > black label turbo yeast with 18 pounds of sugar in
      > 10 gallons of
      > water) sugar mash in about 3 1/2 hours with a gas

      gas? then it's adjustable.

      > burner. On the first
      > pass, I run the still up till it reaches 97 degrees
      > C at the top of
      > the column. My usual yield is about 6 quarts of high
      > abv product.
      > After averaging,it is about 90%. I generally make
      > three batches and
      > collect all I can get. I call this stripping since I
      > do not watch the
      > cuts on the first distillation, but run strictly by
      > temperature. I do
      > watch the cuts carefully on the second distillation
      > which combines the
      > product of the first three stripping runs. On this
      > second distillation
      > I watch the cuts and maximize for the best neutral
      > spirit. The product
      > of the second run is 96% all the way through.

      It all sounds great! go with it!
      Cheers
      Rob.



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    • Harry
      ... wrote: ... Hi Rob, Speaking of proper terminology, I thought I d send you this off- list. Your use of definately vs definitely . 1.
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 1, 2005
        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@y...>
        wrote:
        <snip>

        > Alc-Acid + sod- carb + H2O = alcOH + sod-Acid +CO2
        > It doesn't balance, but you get the idea. There is
        > definately an acid salt.
        <snip>



        Hi Rob,
        Speaking of proper terminology, I thought I'd send you this off-
        list. Your use of 'definately' vs 'definitely'.


        1. Definite: (precise; explicit and clearly defined) "I want a
        definite answer"; "a definite statement of the terms of the
        will"; "a definite amount"; "definite restrictions on the sale of
        alcohol"; "the wedding date is now definite"; "a definite drop in
        attendance"

        2. Definite: (known for certain) "it is definite that they have won"


        DEFINATE (Def·i·nate) (def¢[ibreve]-n[amacr]t): trademark for a
        preparation of docusate sodium.

        Docusate Sodium [USP]: an anionic surfactant used as a stool
        softener, administered orally or rectally.


        *Not being pedantic, just thought you'd get a giggle outta that
        one. :-)

        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • Harry
        OOPS!!! I guess off-list has a different meaning to Yahoo servers. Sorry for any embarassment. Slainte! regards Harry
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 1, 2005
          OOPS!!! I guess off-list has a different meaning to Yahoo servers.
          Sorry for any embarassment.


          Slainte!
          regards Harry
        • Robert Thomas
          Harry, I d like to talk butt I m in a hurry. I m definately right now. !!! Rob. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 1, 2005
            Harry,
            I'd like to talk butt I'm in a hurry.
            I'm definately right now.
            !!!
            Rob.


            --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

            > OOPS!!! I guess off-list has a different meaning to
            > Yahoo servers.
            > Sorry for any embarassment.
            >
            >
            > Slainte!
            > regards Harry
            >
            >
            >


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          • Lindsay Williams
            Is that why drinking too much can give you the runs?? I will definitely try to keep this stuff outa my product. Cheers, Lindsay.
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 1, 2005
              Is that why drinking too much can give you the runs??

              I will definitely try to keep this stuff outa my product.

              Cheers,
              Lindsay.
              >
              > DEFINATE (Def·i·nate) (def¢[ibreve]-n[amacr]t): trademark for a
              > preparation of docusate sodium.
              >
              > Docusate Sodium [USP]: an anionic surfactant used as a stool
              > softener, administered orally or rectally.
              >
              >
              > *Not being pedantic, just thought you'd get a giggle outta that
              > one. :-)
              >
              > Slainte!
              > regards Harry
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