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Re: condenser

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  • Harry
    ... wrote: If steam is pouring out of your ventilation hole it s a good ... condensers ... A child s balloon placed over the vent
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
      <abbababbaccc@y...> wrote:
      <snip>
      If steam is pouring out of your ventilation hole it's a good
      > sign to turn down the power. You can see it quite well by looking
      > against a light. I've tried that method with my air cooled
      condensers
      > and power regulator and it seems to work OK.
      >
      > - Riku



      A child's balloon placed over the vent tube is a good indicator. It
      springs up the moment excess vapour comes out the vent. Also
      prevents getting a room full of ethanol that might go BANG around
      propane. Of course you will get some balloon spring as you reach
      distilling temperature. That's the air being purged from the system
      by the rising vapours. All good column designs should have no air
      in them during operation, just ethanol & water vapour. This
      eliminates the potential for flash fires & explosions. If a spark is
      generated somehow by add-on equipment, and finds ethanol and AIR
      mixture, you've got serious problems, RAPIDLY.


      Slainte!
      regards Harry
    • abbababbaccc
      You are right again Harry. I ve played too much with electric stuff and forgotten the realities of open flame. A more civilized way could be to use a long
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
        You are right again Harry. I've played too much with electric stuff
        and forgotten the realities of open flame. A more "civilized" way
        could be to use a long ventilation pipe made of copper that has a
        vaporlock in it. If it starts bubling you need to reduce the power
        quickly. Play it safe.

        - Riku

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
        > <abbababbaccc@y...> wrote:
        > <snip>
        > If steam is pouring out of your ventilation hole it's a good
        > > sign to turn down the power. You can see it quite well by looking
        > > against a light. I've tried that method with my air cooled
        > condensers
        > > and power regulator and it seems to work OK.
        > >
        > > - Riku
        >
        >
        >
        > A child's balloon placed over the vent tube is a good indicator.
        It
        > springs up the moment excess vapour comes out the vent. Also
        > prevents getting a room full of ethanol that might go BANG around
        > propane. Of course you will get some balloon spring as you reach
        > distilling temperature. That's the air being purged from the
        system
        > by the rising vapours. All good column designs should have no air
        > in them during operation, just ethanol & water vapour. This
        > eliminates the potential for flash fires & explosions. If a spark
        is
        > generated somehow by add-on equipment, and finds ethanol and AIR
        > mixture, you've got serious problems, RAPIDLY.
        >
        >
        > Slainte!
        > regards Harry
      • kiss my ass
        Riku Your are right ..... I will try it and see..... all the theory in the world won t replace actual hard testing..... of course theory will get you in the
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
          Riku

          Your are right ..... I will try it and see..... all the theory in the world
          won't replace actual hard testing..... of course theory will get you in the
          ball park....

          if it doesn't work.... well I'll switch to the 1 in pipe.....

          Kim


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
          To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 3:29 PM
          Subject: [Distillers] Re: condenser


          > Kim,
          >
          > Yes, 1.5" pipe will have more area and cooling effect. Since you have
          > all the stuff why don't you just build one and see how it works. If
          > 1.5" is too much you can just get reducer couplings for 1" that go
          > inside the 1.5" couplings and try with 1" pipe. Theory is nice but
          > it's all up to trying things in practise.
          >
          > Since you use propane it could actually be beneficial to build your
          > condenser for 1-1.2kW for 2" pipe which is close to perfect power for
          > that pipe size. That would provide you a method of running at proper
          > power. If steam is pouring out of your ventilation hole it's a good
          > sign to turn down the power. You can see it quite well by looking
          > against a light. I've tried that method with my air cooled condensers
          > and power regulator and it seems to work OK.
          >
          > - Riku
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kiss my ass" <kiss_my_ass@c...>
          > wrote:
          >> Riku
          >>
          >> point well taken on 1 in pipe and standard fittings..... it
          > certainly would
          >> be a no machine work or drilling construction using standard
          > parts....
          >>
          >> I do think that the 1 1/2 in pipe will close down the volumn but it
          > will be
          >> much more surface area and the vapor will be forced closer to the
          > condensing
          >> surface.....I have a big pump for high coolant volume... and
          > already have
          >> the 2 in to 1 1/2 reducers....I can scrounge all the parts from
          > other "not
          >> so good experiments" I have on hand.....
          >>
          >> I use propane for heat so I have no idea of the actual power output
          > but I
          >> turn the flame down considerably after reaching distilling
          > temperature.....
          >> I think it is probably 2kw or less....{just guessing}
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Kim
          >>
          >>
          >> ----- Original Message -----
          >> From: "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@y...>
          >> To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          >> Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:07 AM
          >> Subject: [Distillers] Re: condenser
          >>
          >> > That's exactly what I was talking about. I'd try 1" pipe inside to
          >> > give vapors more room to turn around and cool. Also it would be
          >> > easier to use reducers to 1/2" at the end of the 1" pipe and
          > attach
          >> > hoses directly to those. This means that everything can be put
          >> > together using standard easy to solder plumbing components.
          >> >
          >> > You can use condenser size calculator at homedistiller.org to
          >> > estimate the length of the condenser + required waterflow. I did
          > some
          >> > math and this type of setup will work at least up to 2kW if enough
          >> > waterflow is provided.
          >> >
          >> > - Riku
          >> >
          >> > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <kiss_my_ass@c...> wrote:
          >> >> I have been lurking and watching the discussion on
          > condensers.... I
          >> >> have come up with an example that I am in the process of
          >> > building....
          >> >> I have uploaded a diagram in the photos section in the
          >> > album "condenser"
          >> >>
          >> >> I call it the "crossflow inverted liebig condenser"
          >> >>
          >> >> I have tried to make a crossflow condenser with construction and
          >> >> materials that might not be as intimidating to the home distiller
          >> >> using common tools.
          >> >>
          >> >> I am not sure how long to make it.... I am guessing 18 to 20
          > inches
          >> >> will give the proper amount of internal surface area..... and the
          >> >> necessary cooling capacity with a large pump and water flow....
          >> >>
          >> >>
          >> >> comments please
          >> >>
          >> >> Kim
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
          >> > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
          >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
          > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Harry
          ... the world ... you in the ... It s an interesting concept, Kim. Let us know the results. As to working out the size, just calculate the hot/cold transfer
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kiss my ass" <kiss_my_ass@c...>
            wrote:
            > Riku
            >
            > Your are right ..... I will try it and see..... all the theory in
            the world
            > won't replace actual hard testing..... of course theory will get
            you in the
            > ball park....
            >
            > if it doesn't work.... well I'll switch to the 1 in pipe.....
            >
            > Kim



            It's an interesting concept, Kim. Let us know the results. As to
            working out the size, just calculate the hot/cold transfer area.
            IOW the outer surface area of the inside water pipe.

            The crossflow has 19 pipes @ 140mm x 6.5mm Ø which is (in cm)...

            Diameter x Pi x length x num.pipes
            .65 x 3.14159 x 14 x 19 --> 543 sq.cm


            This easily handles 1800w under test, and I'm sure it could do more
            if the need arises. It's just a matter of increasing the coolant
            flow. So to get something in that known range using a single
            central pipe, just work backwards with the equation and plug in
            figures...

            543 = Diam x Pi x Length
            543 = 3.8 x 3.14159 x ?
            543 / (3.8 x 3.14159) --> 45.5 cm length @ 3.8 cm diameter
            or 18" x 1.5" pipe
            For 1.25" pipe it's...
            543 / (3.2 x 3.14159) --> 54 cm length @ 3.2 cm diameter
            or 21.25" x 1.25" pipe

            You will also get a very small amount of cooling from the shell side
            to atmosphere transfer, but in condensers this small it's not worth
            calculating.


            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • foutzdj
            Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos section and I noticed a lot of people had caps on the top of the condenser casing. I am
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 14, 2005
              Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos
              section and I noticed a lot of people had caps on the top of the
              condenser casing. I am preparing my design and I had thought that that
              part was supposed to be open to the atmosphere. Can anyone clear this
              up for me?
            • Mike Nixon
              foutzdj wrote: Subject: [Distillers] condenser Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos section and I noticed a lot of people had
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 14, 2005
                foutzdj wrote:
                Subject: [Distillers] condenser

                Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos
                section and I noticed a lot of people had caps on the top of the
                condenser casing. I am preparing my design and I had thought that that
                part was supposed to be open to the atmosphere. Can anyone clear this
                up for me?
                ===============
                Yup. They should all have small vent holes in those caps, but that is not
                always obvious from pics taken from the side. A cap like that is useful for
                supporting the top condenser.

                All the best,
                Mike N
              • Lindsay Williams
                Your supposition is correct but I am sure you will find that they just sit loosely and/or have holes in the top. They are not necessary - an open top is fine.
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 15, 2005
                  Your supposition is correct but I am sure you will find that they just
                  sit loosely and/or have holes in the top. They are not necessary - an
                  open top is fine. Mine is open but I have stuffed a SS scrubber down
                  into the top of my coil.

                  Cheers,
                  Lindsay.

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "foutzdj" <foutzdj@y...> wrote:
                  > Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos
                  > section and I noticed a lot of people had caps on the top of the
                  > condenser casing. I am preparing my design and I had thought that that
                  > part was supposed to be open to the atmosphere. Can anyone clear this
                  > up for me?
                • Alex _{*L*}_ (a.k.a. BOKAKOB)
                  There is ALWAYS an opening in the cups or at the coil tubing entrance points. The opening should not be less than 1/4 diameter. With a properly sized
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 22, 2005
                    There is ALWAYS an opening in the cups or at the coil tubing entrance points. The opening should not be less than 1/4'' diameter. With a properly sized condenser coil there is no need for anything with the coil perfectly open to the atmosphere.


                    ---------------------------------
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Robert Thomas
                    Alex, why 1/4 minimum? Not that it s relevant to me, but reasons give understanding. I should have thought any air gap was enough. cheers, Rob. ...
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 22, 2005
                      Alex,
                      why 1/4" minimum? Not that it's relevant to me, but
                      reasons give understanding. I should have thought any
                      air gap was enough.
                      cheers,
                      Rob.


                      --- "Alex _{*L*}_ (a.k.a. BOKAKOB)"
                      <bokakob@...> wrote:

                      > There is ALWAYS an opening in the cups or at the
                      > coil tubing entrance points. The opening should not
                      > be less than 1/4'' diameter. With a properly sized
                      > condenser coil there is no need for anything with
                      > the coil perfectly open to the atmosphere.
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >


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                    • bokakob
                      I use 1/4 drill bit for all tubing in my still columns. This is a logical extension to use the same drill bit avoiding any changes and cut time on labor. In
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 22, 2005
                        I use 1/4" drill bit for all tubing in my still columns. This is a
                        logical extension to use the same drill bit avoiding any changes and
                        cut time on labor. In theory you are correct, even a slight gap is
                        enough.


                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > Alex, why 1/4" minimum? Not that it's relevant to me, but
                        > reasons give understanding. I should have thought any
                        > air gap was enough.
                        > cheers,
                        > Rob.
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