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Re: [Distillers] Re: Crossflow Plans for personal use

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  • Dean Thomas
    Hi Harry, Riku, etc. Refrigeration heat transfer coils (condenser and evaporator) use Rifle bore tubing the idea is that as the refrigerant passes through the
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 1, 2005
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      Hi Harry, Riku, etc.

      Refrigeration heat transfer coils (condenser and evaporator) use Rifle
      bore tubing the idea is that as the refrigerant passes through the
      rifle boring inside the tube not only is turbulence created but in the
      case of liquid/vapour phase change the liquid is thrown to the outside
      (against the walls) giving better heat transfer.

      Although our (Distillers) rate of flow isn't as fast as that inside a
      refrigerant system maybe this type of tubing would be of benefit when
      designing your next condenser.

      Dean.


      >Your theory is broadly correct. However, the details are a lot more
      >intricate. You need to consider laminar flow (among other things),
      >meaning that the fluid (liquid and gas) flow nearest the transfer
      >wall moves slower than the fluid in the centre of the vapour or
      >liquid medium, due to friction. Therefore the transfer of heat
      >becomes other than linear. There are equations for working this
      >out, but once again, you need to consult a chemical engineer to get
      >the figures. I have the equations, but it's outside my field of
      >expertise. Perhaps Mike Nixon or Tony Ackland can help.
      >
      >Aside from that, the condenser would need to have turbulence
      >introduced into the vapour, via baffles, as this increases the
      >contact and changes the angle of attack between the vapour, the heat
      >transfer medium (the tube walls) and the coolant.
      >
      >One thing in the favour of the hobbyist is that the designs we build
      >are extremely small in the broad scheme of things, therefore if we
      >make a small error in calculations, it's not critical (usually). A
      >small increase in coolant flow will usually overcome most design
      >errors.
      >
      >Slainte!
      >regards Harry
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
      > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • markapp
      Just wondering does some reflux drip all over or does it tend to run the coolant tubes to the header plates and run dowwn to the pool, never realy dripping.
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 2, 2005
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        Just wondering does some reflux drip all over or does it tend to run
        the coolant tubes to the header plates and run dowwn to the pool, never
        realy dripping. Reasoning is, does some reflux always occur, as drips
        that hit the hole or is reflux only in a dam overflow condition. Also
        kind of wondering about the theories regarding prefered placement of
        reflux to be center of column rather than perimeter. I may be missing
        something as the dam sleeve may be intended to direct the reflux off
        the walls Could a t and second valve piped to a center drip be a
        possible refinement? Hope it is ok to ask as i know the theory and
        explaination was intentionaly avoided to some extent in favor of
        simplicity and clarity in the instruction. thanks
      • abbababbaccc
        I have experimented a VM system with centered and non centered reflux. The setup was: Reflux coil directly above the packing, straight column so some reflux
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 2, 2005
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          I have experimented a VM system with centered and non centered reflux.
          The setup was:

          Reflux coil directly above the packing, straight column so some reflux
          will go down the column walls

          The same as above but this time I made a collar inbetween the coil and
          the packing to guide all reflux into middle of packing

          The result was 30% less heads with latter setup. This means that the
          separation was increased when reflux was guided into middle of the
          packing.

          - Riku

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "markapp" <markapp@y...> wrote:
          > Just wondering does some reflux drip all over or does it tend to run
          > the coolant tubes to the header plates and run dowwn to the pool,
          never
          > realy dripping. Reasoning is, does some reflux always occur, as drips
          > that hit the hole or is reflux only in a dam overflow condition. Also
          > kind of wondering about the theories regarding prefered placement of
          > reflux to be center of column rather than perimeter. I may be missing
          > something as the dam sleeve may be intended to direct the reflux off
          > the walls Could a t and second valve piped to a center drip be a
          > possible refinement? Hope it is ok to ask as i know the theory and
          > explaination was intentionaly avoided to some extent in favor of
          > simplicity and clarity in the instruction. thanks
        • Harry
          Hi Mark, I ll try to tackle this a step at a time... ... never ... ............Theory says there should always be a certain amount of reflux from dripping over
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 2, 2005
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            Hi Mark,
            I'll try to tackle this a step at a time...


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "markapp" <markapp@y...> wrote:
            > Just wondering does some reflux drip all over or does it tend to run
            > the coolant tubes to the header plates and run dowwn to the pool,
            never
            > realy dripping.


            ............Theory says there should always be a certain amount of
            reflux from dripping over the centre 45mm column top (the dam wall).
            Practice shows that the drops of condensate tend to go along the tubes
            to either end and fall into the sump. This is helped along by the
            rising vapour, which is actually drawn into the condenser by the small
            vacuum condition set up by the collapse of vapour to liquid (yes I
            know it's open to atmosphere via the vent, but you still get partial
            vacuum).
            If you had the skill, money and time to make the condenser entirely
            out of glass, you'd see what I'm talking about.


            Reasoning is, does some reflux always occur, as drips
            > that hit the hole or is reflux only in a dam overflow condition.

            .............Because of the scenario above, very little reflux is via
            dripping. It's safe to assume all reflux is via dam wall overflow.

            Also
            > kind of wondering about the theories regarding prefered placement of
            > reflux to be center of column rather than perimeter. I may be
            missing
            > something as the dam sleeve may be intended to direct the reflux off
            > the walls



            ............Yes it does, but you still get minor tracking down the
            wall of the column. This is not relevant in an insulated column, as
            the temperature across an insulated column is the same at a give
            height. Therefore it doesn't matter if the descending liquid is in
            the centre or at the side. The temperature at that level is the same
            for centre and edge, and the descending liquid will still reboil and
            give up vapour as it reaches the correct temperature level. The
            vapour thus given off will expand to occupy some 45 times the volume
            of the parent liquid, thereby forcing itself back into the packing
            thoroughly.

            In an uninsulated column, all bets are off.



            Could a t and second valve piped to a center drip be a possible
            refinement?


            ....................It could. So could doing away altogether with the
            sump takeoff point and installing standard dual angled plates in the
            column to capture all condensate. This could then be split into
            reflux and product with a single valve. Alex has used this setup in
            some of his columns.


            > Hope it is ok to ask as i know the theory and
            > explaination was intentionaly avoided to some extent in favor of
            > simplicity and clarity in the instruction. thanks


            If you don't ask questions, you'll never know. :-))



            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • Alex _{*L*}_ (a.k.a. BOKAKOB)
            There will be no dripping in any condenser if it is at an angle. Distillate will happily slide down along the cooling tubes toward the pool. Dripping will
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 2, 2005
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              There will be no dripping in any condenser if it is at an angle. Distillate will happily slide down along the cooling tubes toward the pool.

              Dripping will occur only on condition when surface tension is less than the gravity pull. In other words -- if you have almost any angle (15* and up) then all your distillate will cling to the cooling tubes.

              To prevent it some drip points should be regularly made along the cooling tubes. Otherwise you need horizontal arrangement of the cooling tubes.

              That is what I think! ;-)

              markapp <markapp@...> wrote:
              Just wondering does some reflux drip all over or does it tend to run
              the coolant tubes to the header plates and run dowwn to the pool, never
              realy dripping. Reasoning is, does some reflux always occur, as drips
              that hit the hole or is reflux only in a dam overflow condition. Also
              kind of wondering about the theories regarding prefered placement of
              reflux to be center of column rather than perimeter. I may be missing
              something as the dam sleeve may be intended to direct the reflux off
              the walls Could a t and second valve piped to a center drip be a
              possible refinement? Hope it is ok to ask as i know the theory and
              explaination was intentionaly avoided to some extent in favor of
              simplicity and clarity in the instruction. thanks




              Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



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            • Harry
              ... Distillate will happily slide down along the cooling tubes toward the pool. ... than the gravity pull. In other words -- if you have almost any angle (15*
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 2, 2005
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                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Alex _{*L*}_ \(a.k.a. BOKAKOB\)"
                <bokakob@y...> wrote:
                > There will be no dripping in any condenser if it is at an angle.
                Distillate will happily slide down along the cooling tubes toward
                the pool.

                .........True, but this condenser is level.


                >
                > Dripping will occur only on condition when surface tension is less
                than the gravity pull. In other words -- if you have almost any
                angle (15* and up) then all your distillate will cling to the
                cooling tubes.




                ..............Partially true. Moreso for the first part of your
                statement. Liquid tends to cling to the surface where it condensed,
                or first landed. Think about raindrops on an old-fashioned clothes
                line wire. But don't forget about the pressure of rising vapour.



                >
                > To prevent it some drip points should be regularly made along the
                cooling tubes. Otherwise you need horizontal arrangement of the
                cooling tubes.


                ............Why would you want to prevent it? It's practical for
                the condensate to work its way over the sump area. Don't forget it
                is helped along by the pressure of rising vapour. If you slowed the
                coolant feed to a trickle, then rising vapour would cause pressure
                shear in the direction of the condenser endplates. We need to
                strike a happy balance between coolant speed and condensate movement.



                >
                > That is what I think! ;-)

                .............Good points, Alex. Practical thought is what makes
                this hobby so fascinating, from many angles.


                Slainte!
                regards Harry
              • Lindsay Williams
                Interesting to see some empirical evidence. I might have another go at my washer to make doubly sure it drips into the centre (a glass column would be
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 2, 2005
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                  Interesting to see some empirical evidence. I might have another go at
                  my 'washer' to make doubly sure it drips into the centre (a glass
                  column would be good!). Thanks for the work and sharing it with us.

                  Cheers,
                  Lindsay.

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > I have experimented a VM system with centered and non centered reflux.
                  > The setup was:
                  >
                  > Reflux coil directly above the packing, straight column so some reflux
                  > will go down the column walls
                  >
                  > The same as above but this time I made a collar inbetween the coil and
                  > the packing to guide all reflux into middle of packing
                  >
                  > The result was 30% less heads with latter setup. This means that the
                  > separation was increased when reflux was guided into middle of the
                  > packing.
                  >
                  > - Riku
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "markapp" <markapp@y...> wrote:
                  > > Just wondering does some reflux drip all over or does it tend to run
                  > > the coolant tubes to the header plates and run dowwn to the pool,
                  > never
                  > > realy dripping. Reasoning is, does some reflux always occur, as drips
                  > > that hit the hole or is reflux only in a dam overflow condition. Also
                  > > kind of wondering about the theories regarding prefered placement of
                  > > reflux to be center of column rather than perimeter. I may be missing
                  > > something as the dam sleeve may be intended to direct the reflux off
                  > > the walls Could a t and second valve piped to a center drip be a
                  > > possible refinement? Hope it is ok to ask as i know the theory and
                  > > explaination was intentionaly avoided to some extent in favor of
                  > > simplicity and clarity in the instruction. thanks
                • stevolate
                  Hi Harry and others. If your cross flow condenser was made out of Stainless steel, dose anyone know how big it would need to be. Do you think it would work
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 6, 2005
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                    Hi Harry and others.
                    If your cross flow condenser was made out of Stainless steel,
                    dose anyone know how big it would need to be.
                    Do you think it would work with the poor thermal properties?

                    Happy drinking


                    Stevo
                  • Harry
                    ... I haven t used stainless, but there s no reason why it can t be used for the shell. However the tubes are a different matter. They are the transfer
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 6, 2005
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                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stevolate" <stevolate@y...> wrote:
                      > Hi Harry and others.
                      > If your cross flow condenser was made out of Stainless steel,
                      > dose anyone know how big it would need to be.
                      > Do you think it would work with the poor thermal properties?
                      >
                      > Happy drinking
                      >
                      >
                      > Stevo



                      I haven't used stainless, but there's no reason why it can't be used
                      for the shell. However the tubes are a different matter. They are
                      the transfer medium between the hot vapours and the coolant. They
                      need to be made of metal with good thermal conductivity
                      characteristics.

                      There's only one metal that's got a better transfer rate than copper
                      and that's silver.
                      ..................Thermal Conductivity
                      ..................BTU / (hr - ft - °F)

                      Silver.............. 247.87
                      Copper.............. 231
                      Gold................ 183
                      Aluminum............ 136
                      Brass................ 69.33
                      Mild Steel........... 26
                      Lead................. 20.39
                      Stainless (304)....... 8.09


                      Which explains why those little stainless condensers on some
                      commercial hobby stills are so pitifully inadequate, or require so
                      much coolant to function.


                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
                    • don1lia2joe3
                      Silver, what an idea, I used to do silver and goldsmithing and my wife says that I don t spend enough money on my hobbies anymore, at least I think that is
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 6, 2005
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                        Silver, what an idea, I used to do silver and goldsmithing and my
                        wife says that I don't spend enough money on my hobbies anymore, at
                        least I think that is what I wanted to hear her say, but if she
                        didn't at least I can pleade dejivu.

                        Her favorite saying is: "The only difference between men and boys is
                        the price of their toys."



                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stevolate" <stevolate@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > > Hi Harry and others.
                        > > If your cross flow condenser was made out of Stainless
                        steel,
                        > > dose anyone know how big it would need to be.
                        > > Do you think it would work with the poor thermal properties?
                        > >
                        > > Happy drinking
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Stevo
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I haven't used stainless, but there's no reason why it can't be
                        used
                        > for the shell. However the tubes are a different matter. They
                        are
                        > the transfer medium between the hot vapours and the coolant. They
                        > need to be made of metal with good thermal conductivity
                        > characteristics.
                        >
                        > There's only one metal that's got a better transfer rate than
                        copper
                        > and that's silver.
                        > ..................Thermal Conductivity
                        > ..................BTU / (hr - ft - °F)
                        >
                        > Silver.............. 247.87
                        > Copper.............. 231
                        > Gold................ 183
                        > Aluminum............ 136
                        > Brass................ 69.33
                        > Mild Steel........... 26
                        > Lead................. 20.39
                        > Stainless (304)....... 8.09
                        >
                        >
                        > Which explains why those little stainless condensers on some
                        > commercial hobby stills are so pitifully inadequate, or require so
                        > much coolant to function.
                        >
                        >
                        > Slainte!
                        > regards Harry
                      • Derek Hamlet
                        Harry, When I built my x flow I used brass pipe because that was all that was available in hard drawn 1/4 tubing. It works just fine. However, in looking at
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 13, 2005
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                          Harry,
                          When I built my x flow I used brass pipe because that was all that was
                          available in hard drawn 1/4" tubing. It works just fine. However, in
                          looking at the thermal properties comparison I can see that I would have
                          been much better off with copper.
                          I have yet to track down a source of the "hard" 1/4" copper pipe. Is that
                          available to you southern hemisphere types or did you use "soft" copper and
                          contrive a way to get them perfectly straight?
                          At 05:50 PM 6/6/05, you wrote:
                          >gnikomson2000@...

                          Derek Hamlet
                          Victoria, B.C.
                        • Andrew Forsberg
                          ... Hi Derek, Why does it have to be perfectly straight? As long as the ends of the pipe fit into the corresponding holds in the caps then that should do the
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 13, 2005
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                            On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 16:35 -0700, Derek Hamlet wrote:

                            > I have yet to track down a source of the "hard" 1/4" copper pipe. Is that
                            > available to you southern hemisphere types or did you use "soft" copper and
                            > contrive a way to get them perfectly straight?

                            Hi Derek,

                            Why does it have to be perfectly straight? As long as the ends of the
                            pipe fit into the corresponding holds in the caps then that should do
                            the job just fine. Put a different way -- the more bends in the pipe the
                            more surface area there is for heat exchange.

                            When I made my shotgun condenser (inside-out, rotated, crossflow) about
                            a year or so back I remember having a bit of trouble getting the soft
                            drawn lengths of pipe to fit through all the correct holes. A bit of
                            perseverance, lot of swearing, and extra filing of the holes in the
                            closing plate, and it all came together nicely.

                            Cheers
                            Andrew
                          • Derek Hamlet
                            Andrew, Yes, I may go that way on the condenser for my wife s aromatics still (she is into eau de vie), but, if I could find hard 1/4 copper it would reduce
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 13, 2005
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                              Andrew,
                              Yes, I may go that way on the condenser for my wife's aromatics still (she
                              is into eau de vie), but, if I could find hard 1/4" copper it would reduce
                              my frustration level methinks.
                              At 05:17 PM 6/13/05, you wrote:
                              >On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 16:35 -0700, Derek Hamlet wrote:
                              >
                              > > I have yet to track down a source of the "hard" 1/4" copper pipe. Is that
                              > > available to you southern hemisphere types or did you use "soft" copper
                              > and
                              > > contrive a way to get them perfectly straight?
                              >
                              >Hi Derek,
                              >
                              >Why does it have to be perfectly straight? As long as the ends of the
                              >pipe fit into the corresponding holds in the caps then that should do
                              >the job just fine. Put a different way -- the more bends in the pipe the
                              >more surface area there is for heat exchange.
                              >
                              >When I made my shotgun condenser (inside-out, rotated, crossflow) about
                              >a year or so back I remember having a bit of trouble getting the soft
                              >drawn lengths of pipe to fit through all the correct holes. A bit of
                              >perseverance, lot of swearing, and extra filing of the holes in the
                              >closing plate, and it all came together nicely.
                              >
                              >Cheers
                              >Andrew
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                              > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              Derek Hamlet
                              Victoria, B.C.
                            • l0a4n5g3e
                              ... still (she ... would reduce ... Hi Derek, Me again. My experience is, to roll the soft 1/4 pipe segments between flat wood boards, which you put under
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 13, 2005
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                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@s...>
                                wrote:
                                > Andrew,
                                > Yes, I may go that way on the condenser for my wife's aromatics
                                still (she
                                > is into eau de vie), but, if I could find hard 1/4" copper it
                                would reduce
                                > my frustration level methinks.
                                > Derek Hamlet
                                > Victoria, B.C.


                                Hi Derek,

                                Me again.

                                My experience is, to roll the soft 1/4 " pipe segments between
                                flat wood boards, which you put under pressure, i.e. place one board
                                on the floor, place one piece of pipe on the board and with your
                                foot on the covering board roll the pipe to and fro.
                                And see it will straighten.

                                As an electrician I had to straighten 6 and 10 mM square copper wire
                                for installation inside cabinets, it was there that I practised it.
                                Later as captain of the technical committee of our scuba diving club
                                I was responsible for the installation of the high pressure piping
                                for the filling of our dive tanks. We used a lot of softdrawn copper
                                pipe and straightening was no problem at all! Especially as most of
                                the piping was in clear view of all who needed a refill.

                                It really works! I managed to straighten lengths of up to 1 meter
                                (just over 3 feet)

                                Good luck again,

                                LangeA3
                                Holland.
                              • Derek Hamlet
                                I ll try it on my next version of Harry s condenser. ... Derek Hamlet Victoria, B.C.
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 13, 2005
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                                  I"ll try it on my next version of Harry's condenser.
                                  At 07:43 PM 6/13/05, you wrote:
                                  >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@s...>
                                  >wrote:
                                  > > Andrew,
                                  > > Yes, I may go that way on the condenser for my wife's aromatics
                                  >still (she
                                  > > is into eau de vie), but, if I could find hard 1/4" copper it
                                  >would reduce
                                  > > my frustration level methinks.
                                  > > Derek Hamlet
                                  > > Victoria, B.C.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Hi Derek,
                                  >
                                  >Me again.
                                  >
                                  >My experience is, to roll the soft 1/4 " pipe segments between
                                  >flat wood boards, which you put under pressure, i.e. place one board
                                  >on the floor, place one piece of pipe on the board and with your
                                  >foot on the covering board roll the pipe to and fro.
                                  >And see it will straighten.
                                  >
                                  >As an electrician I had to straighten 6 and 10 mM square copper wire
                                  >for installation inside cabinets, it was there that I practised it.
                                  >Later as captain of the technical committee of our scuba diving club
                                  >I was responsible for the installation of the high pressure piping
                                  >for the filling of our dive tanks. We used a lot of softdrawn copper
                                  >pipe and straightening was no problem at all! Especially as most of
                                  >the piping was in clear view of all who needed a refill.
                                  >
                                  >It really works! I managed to straighten lengths of up to 1 meter
                                  >(just over 3 feet)
                                  >
                                  >Good luck again,
                                  >
                                  >LangeA3
                                  >Holland.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                  > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  Derek Hamlet
                                  Victoria, B.C.
                                • Harry
                                  ... was ... However, in ... would have ... Is that ... copper and ... Soft copper, a wooden mallet, a flat hardwood block as an anvil, and a little patience.
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 13, 2005
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                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@s...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Harry,
                                    > When I built my x flow I used brass pipe because that was all that
                                    was
                                    > available in hard drawn 1/4" tubing. It works just fine.
                                    However, in
                                    > looking at the thermal properties comparison I can see that I
                                    would have
                                    > been much better off with copper.
                                    > I have yet to track down a source of the "hard" 1/4" copper pipe.
                                    Is that
                                    > available to you southern hemisphere types or did you use "soft"
                                    copper and
                                    > contrive a way to get them perfectly straight?
                                    > At 05:50 PM 6/6/05, you wrote:
                                    > >gnikomson2000@y...
                                    >
                                    > Derek Hamlet
                                    > Victoria, B.C.



                                    Soft copper, a wooden mallet, a flat hardwood block as an anvil, and
                                    a little patience. Gently straighten enough length off the coil for
                                    about 2 pipes. Measure, cut with a small cheap pipecutter. Repeat
                                    until done.


                                    Slainte!
                                    regards Harry
                                  • Derek Hamlet
                                    Okay, that is what I ll do. I did find a web reference to a company (Cerrus) who make hard drawn 1/4 copper pipe, but, can find no supplier in Canada or more
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 14, 2005
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                                      Okay, that is what I'll do.
                                      I did find a web reference to a company (Cerrus) who make hard drawn 1/4"
                                      copper pipe, but, can find no supplier in Canada or more importantly locally.
                                      So, soft copper it will be.
                                      I love my Crossflow condenser. It works so well.
                                      Kudos to Harry for sharing his plan.
                                      At 10:57 PM 6/13/05, you wrote:
                                      >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@s...>
                                      >wrote:
                                      > > Harry,
                                      > > When I built my x flow I used brass pipe because that was all that
                                      >was
                                      > > available in hard drawn 1/4" tubing. It works just fine.
                                      >However, in
                                      > > looking at the thermal properties comparison I can see that I
                                      >would have
                                      > > been much better off with copper.
                                      > > I have yet to track down a source of the "hard" 1/4" copper pipe.
                                      >Is that
                                      > > available to you southern hemisphere types or did you use "soft"
                                      >copper and
                                      > > contrive a way to get them perfectly straight?
                                      > > At 05:50 PM 6/6/05, you wrote:
                                      > > >gnikomson2000@y...
                                      > >
                                      > > Derek Hamlet
                                      > > Victoria, B.C.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >Soft copper, a wooden mallet, a flat hardwood block as an anvil, and
                                      >a little patience. Gently straighten enough length off the coil for
                                      >about 2 pipes. Measure, cut with a small cheap pipecutter. Repeat
                                      >until done.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >Slainte!
                                      >regards Harry
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                      > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      Derek Hamlet
                                      Victoria, B.C.
                                    • oliminun
                                      Hej Riku, minun kaveri joka on nyt täälä tahtoo jutella sinun kanssasi kun se tulee takaisin ruotsiin. Hänen osoite on hattaratour2005@yahoo.se Terveisin
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 27, 2005
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                                        Hej Riku, minun kaveri joka on nyt täälä tahtoo jutella sinun kanssasi
                                        kun se tulee takaisin ruotsiin. Hänen osoite on
                                        hattaratour2005@...
                                        Terveisin Merenkulkija reima@...

                                        >
                                        > - Riku
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