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condenser

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  • topcat@southcom.com.au
    G day, I have to stick my two bobs worth in. The problem I saw with Tony s design was getting the vapour out of the holes in the column and into contact with
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 24, 2001
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      G'day, I have to stick my two bobs worth in.
      The problem I saw with Tony's design was getting the vapour out of
      the holes in the column and into contact with the cooling coils. The
      natural pathway will tend to head for the vapour lock?
      Also with the vapour lock concept, there is a pressure factor, which
      will play around with temperature? It may be small, but wont it
      raise the condensing point a wee bit?
      The problem I saw with the magic man's concept was the vapour
      again was not all going to be forced into contact with the cooling,
      rather it could tend to hover around in the centre of the condenser.
      And that end cap is a problem, even though it is not soldered on.
      The vapour pressure will pop the cap straight off. Where else will it
      go?
      So for your comment I presnt my version of the current rash of
      alternative condensing machinery.
      By way of explanation, the column, as usual, having done its job
      and presented us with the delicious vapour just waiting to be
      beaten into submission has arrived at the top of the 2" and is
      greeted by no option other than dispersing around the 1" centre
      pipe (capped off) thence perambulating amidst the 3/16" tubing
      arranged in a coiled fashion. Any pressure is avoided by the holes
      in the top cap, they can be as large as will fit around the 1".
      the lip of 2" potruding into the 3" can be any length, I would
      suggest the closer to the 1", the better, but only enough lip to
      gather the condensate. The only area of doubt I have, is, the
      returning condensate will tend to trickle down the column walls.
      Regards, Tony Cahill
    • Tony & Elle Ackland
      ... My thoughts were that some of the vapour would initially find its way to the coils per chance. But then, as it condenses, it would cause a partial vacuum
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 24, 2001
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        > The problem I saw with Tony's design was getting the vapour out of
        > the holes in the column and into contact with the cooling coils. The
        > natural pathway will tend to head for the vapour lock?

        My thoughts were that some of the vapour would initially find its way to
        the coils per chance. But then, as it condenses, it would cause a partial
        vacuum in the area (eg 1L of vapour condenses down to around 1 mL of liquid
        - thats a fair bit of missing volume !), and by doing so, it would draw
        some more of the vapour to the gap between the 2" and 3" sections. Which
        would condense & suck more, and so on. It wouldn't take long before all the
        vapour was being sucked there, and likewise, very little pressure build up
        ?? (aint conjecture a grand thing ... we can guess anything can happen !)

        > Also with the vapour lock concept, there is a pressure factor, which
        > will play around with temperature? It may be small, but wont it
        > raise the condensing point a wee bit?

        hmmmm... again the big uncertain .. I don't know what the final pressure
        there would be, nor if it were positive or negative.

        > So for your comment I presnt my version of the current rash of
        > alternative condensing machinery.

        hurrah for yet another alternative.

        > the lip of 2" potruding into the 3" can be any length, I would
        > suggest the closer to the 1", the better, but only enough lip to
        > gather the condensate.

        How do you get it to work with say zero reflux - eg be able to drain it all
        out the outlet and return none to the column - wouldn't you want the coil
        >2" diameter, so that the drips only went into the outer collar and had to
        overflow back into the 2"

        Tony
      • D. C.
        Damnit, why is it that when you hit reply for this group, it only replies to the sender and not the group? Anyway, here is the reply:
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 24, 2001
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          Damnit, why is it that when you hit reply for this group, it only replies to
          the sender and not the group? Anyway, here is the reply:


          << The problem I saw with Tony's design was getting the vapour out of the
          holes in the column and into contact with the cooling coils. The natural
          pathway will tend to head for the vapour lock? >>

          I see no problem with the vapor coming out of the column's holes, but I do
          see a problem with the vapor having too much pressure and blowing the hell
          out of the air lock.


          << The problem I saw with the magic man's concept was the vapour again was
          not all going to be forced into contact with the cooling, rather it could
          tend to hover around in the centre of the condenser. And that end cap is a
          problem, even though it is not soldered on. The vapour pressure will pop the
          cap straight off. Where else will it go? >>

          My design was something that I was toying with in my head before T-Bone had
          come to the list with his interesting idea. I say this because after drawing
          it up, I had seen too many problems with it and was looking for a different
          way. I posted it because I found an interesting similarity to Tony's design.

          Now that I'm done with my defense, I have since seen some things that
          could/should be improved, but even those improvements bring on their own set
          of problems. For one, I see that the coil HAS to be inside the vapor
          chamber - no real problem with that. The end cap should be soldered on, but
          I like having the ability to remove it when I'm done with a run, sort of
          like stillspirit's internal reflux model - so the end cap says unsoldered -
          problem: too much chance of pressure build up. Solution: remove the valve
          from the output tube - problem: the distillate will not reflux as it will
          all go out the output tube. Solution: make the column flush with the vapor
          chamber's bottom end cap (we now have something that looks like stillspirits
          new valved reflux still but without the needle valves) - problem: we have no
          way to control the reflux and no way to ensure that a good amount of
          distillate will come out of the output tube. Solution: yank out the
          scrubbers, call it a pot still and hope for the best. Ok, so that is not a
          real solution, but this is where I'm stuck at.



          << Any pressure is avoided by the holes in the top cap, they can be as large
          as will fit around the 1". >>

          I have a big problem with having holes in the top as for fear of loosing
          good vapor. Now if the vapor chamber has a huge amount of cooling coil
          contact and the chamber itself is long enough (like the N/S still), I guess
          I'll be "ok" with that.

          << The only area of doubt I have, is, the returning condensate will tend to
          trickle down the column walls. >>

          The major doubt that I have is that no good amount of distillate will make
          it to the output tube. I can be wrong, but I'm having a hard time, by
          looking at your diagram, how the distillate would even make it to the output
          tube since it looks like the major amount, if not all, of the distillate
          will drip back down into the column.

          These are just some of my thoughts.

          Your Brother in Magick,
          The Omnipresent Mecakyrios


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        • Tony & Elle Ackland
          A few more iterations and we may be making some progress ... ... a ... If the column is tall enough (say 1.5m-2m) it may not require very much reflux to
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 24, 2001
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            A few more iterations and we may be making some progress ...

            > Solution: yank out the
            > scrubbers, call it a pot still and hope for the best. Ok, so that is not
            a
            > real solution, but this is where I'm stuck at.

            If the column is tall enough (say 1.5m-2m) it may not require very much
            reflux to sustain a reasonable HETP of the packing - eg who cares if the
            HETP of the scrubbers is 10cm or 15cm when you've got the equivalent of 15+
            plates in the column. So you make them a little less efficient, but the
            loss in purity going from say 15 plates to 10 plates isn't great. Its only
            when you downgrade their efficiency in a short still, and go say from 10
            plates to 6 plates that you'd lose significant purity.

            If by your "random reflux" method you could still ensure that "some" of it
            was refluxing, you still might be onto something useful.


            Tony
          • D. C.
            That s just it, how
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 24, 2001
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              << If by your "random reflux" method you could still ensure that "some" of
              it was refluxing, you still might be onto something useful. >>

              That's just it, how to ensure the reflux.

              << Rob has suggested a good modification I've attached the revised drawing
              .. >>

              Yes, now I think we're on to something here. What do you think about having
              a small coil, like the Nixon/Stone coil) inside the main column? See the
              attachment.

              Your Brother in Magick,
              The Omnipresent Mecakyrios

              P.S. Tony, you have a broken like on your page:

              http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/designs.htm#reflux_plan

              the page for Jan's reflux plans:

              http://home.planet.nl/~jwdob/distilling.htm

              is no longer there.
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            • Tony & Elle Ackland
              ... having ... How about something a little simpler - one coil, but some of it over the main 2 column, the rest over the catchment area. I ve drawn it as a
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 24, 2001
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                > Yes, now I think we're on to something here. What do you think about
                having
                > a small coil, like the Nixon/Stone coil) inside the main column? See the
                > attachment.

                How about something a little simpler - one coil, but some of it over the
                main 2" column, the rest over the catchment area. I've drawn it as a
                double taper, but it could be simpler. Then it would be a matter of just
                changing the proportion of coil over the middle vs over the outer to
                "hardwire" the reflux ratio. Again - put the priviso that this would only
                be appropriate for really tall columns. Maybe you'd put a wee vapour lock
                in the outlet too, so that it always had a little liquid in it, so as to
                not be such an easy outlet for vapour ?

                Tony
              • Erik Andersson
                Hi all, i have seen your post about the new type of head/condenser. I have for some time now planing to build something very similar. The only noticeable
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 25, 2001
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                  Hi all, i have seen your post about the new type of
                  head/condenser. I have for some time now planing to
                  build something very similar. The only noticeable
                  diffrence is that i use a thinner pipe between the
                  column top and the condenser so that the returning
                  liquid spreads out better over the column packing

                  Here comes a simple drawing of it.

                  //Erik Andersson


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                • D. C.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 25, 2001
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                    << The only noticeable diffrence is that i use a thinner pipe between the
                    column top and the condenser so that the returning liquid spreads out better
                    over the column packing >>

                    Good addition Erik. I have been giving this condenser a lot of though and
                    several different ideas have popped into my head because of the
                    collaborative work being done on the "project."

                    I have taken some of the ideas that have been thrown around and kind of came
                    up with a semi-different approach to the idea. It does include a bit more
                    work, but nothing more as way of difficulty as we have had in the past
                    designs. I believe that this design has solved most of the vapor pressure
                    problems that we have seen in the past with our designs.

                    I don't have much time to describe it, but I have included a diagram for you
                    to look at. If there are any questions, just ask.

                    Your Brother in Magick,
                    The Omnipresent Mecakyrios
                    ---
                    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                    Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001
                  • Pete Sayers
                    As far as this query re the internal condensor, what would be the advantage of having a CONICAL shaped condensor that will concentrate the liquid going back
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 26, 2001
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                      As far as this query re the internal condensor, what would be the advantage
                      of having a "CONICAL shaped condensor" that will concentrate the liquid
                      going back down the column, into the middle, thus allowing it to distribute
                      itself thru the s/s packing, as opposed to the internal walls of the
                      column.The coil would have to be wound around a conical shaped anvil, to get
                      the required shape.
                      my two bobs worth.
                      Pete

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: D. C. [mailto:distiller@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, 26 August 2001 05:36
                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [Distillers] New condenser




                      << The only noticeable diffrence is that i use a thinner pipe between the
                      column top and the condenser so that the returning liquid spreads out better
                      over the column packing >>

                      Good addition Erik. I have been giving this condenser a lot of though and
                      several different ideas have popped into my head because of the
                      collaborative work being done on the "project."

                      I have taken some of the ideas that have been thrown around and kind of came
                      up with a semi-different approach to the idea. It does include a bit more
                      work, but nothing more as way of difficulty as we have had in the past
                      designs. I believe that this design has solved most of the vapor pressure
                      problems that we have seen in the past with our designs.

                      I don't have much time to describe it, but I have included a diagram for you
                      to look at. If there are any questions, just ask.

                      Your Brother in Magick,
                      The Omnipresent Mecakyrios
                      ---
                      Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                      Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                      Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001




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                    • Kim
                      I have been lurking and watching the discussion on condensers.... I have come up with an example that I am in the process of building.... I have uploaded a
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                        I have been lurking and watching the discussion on condensers.... I
                        have come up with an example that I am in the process of building....
                        I have uploaded a diagram in the photos section in the album "condenser"

                        I call it the "crossflow inverted liebig condenser"

                        I have tried to make a crossflow condenser with construction and
                        materials that might not be as intimidating to the home distiller
                        using common tools.

                        I am not sure how long to make it.... I am guessing 18 to 20 inches
                        will give the proper amount of internal surface area..... and the
                        necessary cooling capacity with a large pump and water flow....


                        comments please

                        Kim
                      • abbababbaccc
                        That s exactly what I was talking about. I d try 1 pipe inside to give vapors more room to turn around and cool. Also it would be easier to use reducers to
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                          That's exactly what I was talking about. I'd try 1" pipe inside to
                          give vapors more room to turn around and cool. Also it would be
                          easier to use reducers to 1/2" at the end of the 1" pipe and attach
                          hoses directly to those. This means that everything can be put
                          together using standard easy to solder plumbing components.

                          You can use condenser size calculator at homedistiller.org to
                          estimate the length of the condenser + required waterflow. I did some
                          math and this type of setup will work at least up to 2kW if enough
                          waterflow is provided.

                          - Riku

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <kiss_my_ass@c...> wrote:
                          > I have been lurking and watching the discussion on condensers.... I
                          > have come up with an example that I am in the process of
                          building....
                          > I have uploaded a diagram in the photos section in the
                          album "condenser"
                          >
                          > I call it the "crossflow inverted liebig condenser"
                          >
                          > I have tried to make a crossflow condenser with construction and
                          > materials that might not be as intimidating to the home distiller
                          > using common tools.
                          >
                          > I am not sure how long to make it.... I am guessing 18 to 20 inches
                          > will give the proper amount of internal surface area..... and the
                          > necessary cooling capacity with a large pump and water flow....
                          >
                          >
                          > comments please
                          >
                          > Kim
                        • kiss my ass
                          Riku point well taken on 1 in pipe and standard fittings..... it certainly would be a no machine work or drilling construction using standard parts.... I do
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                            Riku

                            point well taken on 1 in pipe and standard fittings..... it certainly would
                            be a no machine work or drilling construction using standard parts....

                            I do think that the 1 1/2 in pipe will close down the volumn but it will be
                            much more surface area and the vapor will be forced closer to the condensing
                            surface.....I have a big pump for high coolant volume... and already have
                            the 2 in to 1 1/2 reducers....I can scrounge all the parts from other "not
                            so good experiments" I have on hand.....

                            I use propane for heat so I have no idea of the actual power output but I
                            turn the flame down considerably after reaching distilling temperature.....
                            I think it is probably 2kw or less....{just guessing}



                            Kim


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                            To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:07 AM
                            Subject: [Distillers] Re: condenser

                            > That's exactly what I was talking about. I'd try 1" pipe inside to
                            > give vapors more room to turn around and cool. Also it would be
                            > easier to use reducers to 1/2" at the end of the 1" pipe and attach
                            > hoses directly to those. This means that everything can be put
                            > together using standard easy to solder plumbing components.
                            >
                            > You can use condenser size calculator at homedistiller.org to
                            > estimate the length of the condenser + required waterflow. I did some
                            > math and this type of setup will work at least up to 2kW if enough
                            > waterflow is provided.
                            >
                            > - Riku
                            >
                            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <kiss_my_ass@c...> wrote:
                            >> I have been lurking and watching the discussion on condensers.... I
                            >> have come up with an example that I am in the process of
                            > building....
                            >> I have uploaded a diagram in the photos section in the
                            > album "condenser"
                            >>
                            >> I call it the "crossflow inverted liebig condenser"
                            >>
                            >> I have tried to make a crossflow condenser with construction and
                            >> materials that might not be as intimidating to the home distiller
                            >> using common tools.
                            >>
                            >> I am not sure how long to make it.... I am guessing 18 to 20 inches
                            >> will give the proper amount of internal surface area..... and the
                            >> necessary cooling capacity with a large pump and water flow....
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> comments please
                            >>
                            >> Kim
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                            > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • abbababbaccc
                            Kim, Yes, 1.5 pipe will have more area and cooling effect. Since you have all the stuff why don t you just build one and see how it works. If 1.5 is too much
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                              Kim,

                              Yes, 1.5" pipe will have more area and cooling effect. Since you have
                              all the stuff why don't you just build one and see how it works. If
                              1.5" is too much you can just get reducer couplings for 1" that go
                              inside the 1.5" couplings and try with 1" pipe. Theory is nice but
                              it's all up to trying things in practise.

                              Since you use propane it could actually be beneficial to build your
                              condenser for 1-1.2kW for 2" pipe which is close to perfect power for
                              that pipe size. That would provide you a method of running at proper
                              power. If steam is pouring out of your ventilation hole it's a good
                              sign to turn down the power. You can see it quite well by looking
                              against a light. I've tried that method with my air cooled condensers
                              and power regulator and it seems to work OK.

                              - Riku

                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kiss my ass" <kiss_my_ass@c...>
                              wrote:
                              > Riku
                              >
                              > point well taken on 1 in pipe and standard fittings..... it
                              certainly would
                              > be a no machine work or drilling construction using standard
                              parts....
                              >
                              > I do think that the 1 1/2 in pipe will close down the volumn but it
                              will be
                              > much more surface area and the vapor will be forced closer to the
                              condensing
                              > surface.....I have a big pump for high coolant volume... and
                              already have
                              > the 2 in to 1 1/2 reducers....I can scrounge all the parts from
                              other "not
                              > so good experiments" I have on hand.....
                              >
                              > I use propane for heat so I have no idea of the actual power output
                              but I
                              > turn the flame down considerably after reaching distilling
                              temperature.....
                              > I think it is probably 2kw or less....{just guessing}
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Kim
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@y...>
                              > To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:07 AM
                              > Subject: [Distillers] Re: condenser
                              >
                              > > That's exactly what I was talking about. I'd try 1" pipe inside to
                              > > give vapors more room to turn around and cool. Also it would be
                              > > easier to use reducers to 1/2" at the end of the 1" pipe and
                              attach
                              > > hoses directly to those. This means that everything can be put
                              > > together using standard easy to solder plumbing components.
                              > >
                              > > You can use condenser size calculator at homedistiller.org to
                              > > estimate the length of the condenser + required waterflow. I did
                              some
                              > > math and this type of setup will work at least up to 2kW if enough
                              > > waterflow is provided.
                              > >
                              > > - Riku
                              > >
                              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <kiss_my_ass@c...> wrote:
                              > >> I have been lurking and watching the discussion on
                              condensers.... I
                              > >> have come up with an example that I am in the process of
                              > > building....
                              > >> I have uploaded a diagram in the photos section in the
                              > > album "condenser"
                              > >>
                              > >> I call it the "crossflow inverted liebig condenser"
                              > >>
                              > >> I have tried to make a crossflow condenser with construction and
                              > >> materials that might not be as intimidating to the home distiller
                              > >> using common tools.
                              > >>
                              > >> I am not sure how long to make it.... I am guessing 18 to 20
                              inches
                              > >> will give the proper amount of internal surface area..... and the
                              > >> necessary cooling capacity with a large pump and water flow....
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> comments please
                              > >>
                              > >> Kim
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                              > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                            • Harry
                              ... wrote: If steam is pouring out of your ventilation hole it s a good ... condensers ... A child s balloon placed over the vent
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                                <abbababbaccc@y...> wrote:
                                <snip>
                                If steam is pouring out of your ventilation hole it's a good
                                > sign to turn down the power. You can see it quite well by looking
                                > against a light. I've tried that method with my air cooled
                                condensers
                                > and power regulator and it seems to work OK.
                                >
                                > - Riku



                                A child's balloon placed over the vent tube is a good indicator. It
                                springs up the moment excess vapour comes out the vent. Also
                                prevents getting a room full of ethanol that might go BANG around
                                propane. Of course you will get some balloon spring as you reach
                                distilling temperature. That's the air being purged from the system
                                by the rising vapours. All good column designs should have no air
                                in them during operation, just ethanol & water vapour. This
                                eliminates the potential for flash fires & explosions. If a spark is
                                generated somehow by add-on equipment, and finds ethanol and AIR
                                mixture, you've got serious problems, RAPIDLY.


                                Slainte!
                                regards Harry
                              • abbababbaccc
                                You are right again Harry. I ve played too much with electric stuff and forgotten the realities of open flame. A more civilized way could be to use a long
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                  You are right again Harry. I've played too much with electric stuff
                                  and forgotten the realities of open flame. A more "civilized" way
                                  could be to use a long ventilation pipe made of copper that has a
                                  vaporlock in it. If it starts bubling you need to reduce the power
                                  quickly. Play it safe.

                                  - Riku

                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                                  > <abbababbaccc@y...> wrote:
                                  > <snip>
                                  > If steam is pouring out of your ventilation hole it's a good
                                  > > sign to turn down the power. You can see it quite well by looking
                                  > > against a light. I've tried that method with my air cooled
                                  > condensers
                                  > > and power regulator and it seems to work OK.
                                  > >
                                  > > - Riku
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > A child's balloon placed over the vent tube is a good indicator.
                                  It
                                  > springs up the moment excess vapour comes out the vent. Also
                                  > prevents getting a room full of ethanol that might go BANG around
                                  > propane. Of course you will get some balloon spring as you reach
                                  > distilling temperature. That's the air being purged from the
                                  system
                                  > by the rising vapours. All good column designs should have no air
                                  > in them during operation, just ethanol & water vapour. This
                                  > eliminates the potential for flash fires & explosions. If a spark
                                  is
                                  > generated somehow by add-on equipment, and finds ethanol and AIR
                                  > mixture, you've got serious problems, RAPIDLY.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Slainte!
                                  > regards Harry
                                • kiss my ass
                                  Riku Your are right ..... I will try it and see..... all the theory in the world won t replace actual hard testing..... of course theory will get you in the
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                    Riku

                                    Your are right ..... I will try it and see..... all the theory in the world
                                    won't replace actual hard testing..... of course theory will get you in the
                                    ball park....

                                    if it doesn't work.... well I'll switch to the 1 in pipe.....

                                    Kim


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                                    To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 3:29 PM
                                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: condenser


                                    > Kim,
                                    >
                                    > Yes, 1.5" pipe will have more area and cooling effect. Since you have
                                    > all the stuff why don't you just build one and see how it works. If
                                    > 1.5" is too much you can just get reducer couplings for 1" that go
                                    > inside the 1.5" couplings and try with 1" pipe. Theory is nice but
                                    > it's all up to trying things in practise.
                                    >
                                    > Since you use propane it could actually be beneficial to build your
                                    > condenser for 1-1.2kW for 2" pipe which is close to perfect power for
                                    > that pipe size. That would provide you a method of running at proper
                                    > power. If steam is pouring out of your ventilation hole it's a good
                                    > sign to turn down the power. You can see it quite well by looking
                                    > against a light. I've tried that method with my air cooled condensers
                                    > and power regulator and it seems to work OK.
                                    >
                                    > - Riku
                                    >
                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kiss my ass" <kiss_my_ass@c...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >> Riku
                                    >>
                                    >> point well taken on 1 in pipe and standard fittings..... it
                                    > certainly would
                                    >> be a no machine work or drilling construction using standard
                                    > parts....
                                    >>
                                    >> I do think that the 1 1/2 in pipe will close down the volumn but it
                                    > will be
                                    >> much more surface area and the vapor will be forced closer to the
                                    > condensing
                                    >> surface.....I have a big pump for high coolant volume... and
                                    > already have
                                    >> the 2 in to 1 1/2 reducers....I can scrounge all the parts from
                                    > other "not
                                    >> so good experiments" I have on hand.....
                                    >>
                                    >> I use propane for heat so I have no idea of the actual power output
                                    > but I
                                    >> turn the flame down considerably after reaching distilling
                                    > temperature.....
                                    >> I think it is probably 2kw or less....{just guessing}
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Kim
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> From: "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@y...>
                                    >> To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >> Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:07 AM
                                    >> Subject: [Distillers] Re: condenser
                                    >>
                                    >> > That's exactly what I was talking about. I'd try 1" pipe inside to
                                    >> > give vapors more room to turn around and cool. Also it would be
                                    >> > easier to use reducers to 1/2" at the end of the 1" pipe and
                                    > attach
                                    >> > hoses directly to those. This means that everything can be put
                                    >> > together using standard easy to solder plumbing components.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > You can use condenser size calculator at homedistiller.org to
                                    >> > estimate the length of the condenser + required waterflow. I did
                                    > some
                                    >> > math and this type of setup will work at least up to 2kW if enough
                                    >> > waterflow is provided.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > - Riku
                                    >> >
                                    >> > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <kiss_my_ass@c...> wrote:
                                    >> >> I have been lurking and watching the discussion on
                                    > condensers.... I
                                    >> >> have come up with an example that I am in the process of
                                    >> > building....
                                    >> >> I have uploaded a diagram in the photos section in the
                                    >> > album "condenser"
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> I call it the "crossflow inverted liebig condenser"
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> I have tried to make a crossflow condenser with construction and
                                    >> >> materials that might not be as intimidating to the home distiller
                                    >> >> using common tools.
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> I am not sure how long to make it.... I am guessing 18 to 20
                                    > inches
                                    >> >> will give the proper amount of internal surface area..... and the
                                    >> >> necessary cooling capacity with a large pump and water flow....
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> comments please
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> Kim
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                    >> > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                    >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                    > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Harry
                                    ... the world ... you in the ... It s an interesting concept, Kim. Let us know the results. As to working out the size, just calculate the hot/cold transfer
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kiss my ass" <kiss_my_ass@c...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > Riku
                                      >
                                      > Your are right ..... I will try it and see..... all the theory in
                                      the world
                                      > won't replace actual hard testing..... of course theory will get
                                      you in the
                                      > ball park....
                                      >
                                      > if it doesn't work.... well I'll switch to the 1 in pipe.....
                                      >
                                      > Kim



                                      It's an interesting concept, Kim. Let us know the results. As to
                                      working out the size, just calculate the hot/cold transfer area.
                                      IOW the outer surface area of the inside water pipe.

                                      The crossflow has 19 pipes @ 140mm x 6.5mm Ø which is (in cm)...

                                      Diameter x Pi x length x num.pipes
                                      .65 x 3.14159 x 14 x 19 --> 543 sq.cm


                                      This easily handles 1800w under test, and I'm sure it could do more
                                      if the need arises. It's just a matter of increasing the coolant
                                      flow. So to get something in that known range using a single
                                      central pipe, just work backwards with the equation and plug in
                                      figures...

                                      543 = Diam x Pi x Length
                                      543 = 3.8 x 3.14159 x ?
                                      543 / (3.8 x 3.14159) --> 45.5 cm length @ 3.8 cm diameter
                                      or 18" x 1.5" pipe
                                      For 1.25" pipe it's...
                                      543 / (3.2 x 3.14159) --> 54 cm length @ 3.2 cm diameter
                                      or 21.25" x 1.25" pipe

                                      You will also get a very small amount of cooling from the shell side
                                      to atmosphere transfer, but in condensers this small it's not worth
                                      calculating.


                                      Slainte!
                                      regards Harry
                                    • foutzdj
                                      Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos section and I noticed a lot of people had caps on the top of the condenser casing. I am
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Aug 14, 2005
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                                        Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos
                                        section and I noticed a lot of people had caps on the top of the
                                        condenser casing. I am preparing my design and I had thought that that
                                        part was supposed to be open to the atmosphere. Can anyone clear this
                                        up for me?
                                      • Mike Nixon
                                        foutzdj wrote: Subject: [Distillers] condenser Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos section and I noticed a lot of people had
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Aug 14, 2005
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                                          foutzdj wrote:
                                          Subject: [Distillers] condenser

                                          Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos
                                          section and I noticed a lot of people had caps on the top of the
                                          condenser casing. I am preparing my design and I had thought that that
                                          part was supposed to be open to the atmosphere. Can anyone clear this
                                          up for me?
                                          ===============
                                          Yup. They should all have small vent holes in those caps, but that is not
                                          always obvious from pics taken from the side. A cap like that is useful for
                                          supporting the top condenser.

                                          All the best,
                                          Mike N
                                        • Lindsay Williams
                                          Your supposition is correct but I am sure you will find that they just sit loosely and/or have holes in the top. They are not necessary - an open top is fine.
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Aug 15, 2005
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                                            Your supposition is correct but I am sure you will find that they just
                                            sit loosely and/or have holes in the top. They are not necessary - an
                                            open top is fine. Mine is open but I have stuffed a SS scrubber down
                                            into the top of my coil.

                                            Cheers,
                                            Lindsay.

                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "foutzdj" <foutzdj@y...> wrote:
                                            > Hi, I was just looking at some of the photos of stills in the photos
                                            > section and I noticed a lot of people had caps on the top of the
                                            > condenser casing. I am preparing my design and I had thought that that
                                            > part was supposed to be open to the atmosphere. Can anyone clear this
                                            > up for me?
                                          • Alex _{*L*}_ (a.k.a. BOKAKOB)
                                            There is ALWAYS an opening in the cups or at the coil tubing entrance points. The opening should not be less than 1/4 diameter. With a properly sized
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Aug 22, 2005
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                                              There is ALWAYS an opening in the cups or at the coil tubing entrance points. The opening should not be less than 1/4'' diameter. With a properly sized condenser coil there is no need for anything with the coil perfectly open to the atmosphere.


                                              ---------------------------------
                                              Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Robert Thomas
                                              Alex, why 1/4 minimum? Not that it s relevant to me, but reasons give understanding. I should have thought any air gap was enough. cheers, Rob. ...
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Aug 22, 2005
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                                                Alex,
                                                why 1/4" minimum? Not that it's relevant to me, but
                                                reasons give understanding. I should have thought any
                                                air gap was enough.
                                                cheers,
                                                Rob.


                                                --- "Alex _{*L*}_ (a.k.a. BOKAKOB)"
                                                <bokakob@...> wrote:

                                                > There is ALWAYS an opening in the cups or at the
                                                > coil tubing entrance points. The opening should not
                                                > be less than 1/4'' diameter. With a properly sized
                                                > condenser coil there is no need for anything with
                                                > the coil perfectly open to the atmosphere.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                > removed]
                                                >
                                                >


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                                              • bokakob
                                                I use 1/4 drill bit for all tubing in my still columns. This is a logical extension to use the same drill bit avoiding any changes and cut time on labor. In
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Aug 22, 2005
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                                                  I use 1/4" drill bit for all tubing in my still columns. This is a
                                                  logical extension to use the same drill bit avoiding any changes and
                                                  cut time on labor. In theory you are correct, even a slight gap is
                                                  enough.


                                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas <whosbrewing@y...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > Alex, why 1/4" minimum? Not that it's relevant to me, but
                                                  > reasons give understanding. I should have thought any
                                                  > air gap was enough.
                                                  > cheers,
                                                  > Rob.
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