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Wine Whine

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  • donald holcombe
    I just got through checking almost 100 wine recipes ! To my shagrien it seems there are indeed some wines that are made with little or no water ! Mostly
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 1 5:00 PM
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      I just got through checking almost 100 wine recipes ! To my shagrien it seems there are indeed some wines that are made with little or no water ! Mostly Europian grapes like Vinefera.Some table grapes may work this way some wont.Ive learned something new. Next time I may not holler so fast. This is a Distillers Site so lets make some Brandy from all that Bad Wine ! SUIT make the wine and let us know when to come get some.

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    • Derek Hamlet
      Sometimes you will get grapes that for climactic and grower reasons have too much sugar for the wine you wish to make. In such a case winemakers add water to
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 2 12:04 PM
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        Sometimes you will get grapes that for climactic and grower reasons have
        too much sugar for the wine you wish to make. In such a case winemakers
        add water to achieve the desired specific gravity. This depends on the
        wine you are making. Then you adjust ph and titratable acids to get the
        optimum readings at the start. Most serious winemakers take readings of ph
        and TA when the wine goes from primary to secondary for their
        records. Then sometime before bottling (certainly after the mololactic
        fermention if there is one), they will adjust for their desired ph, TA and
        free sulphur before bottling. These final readings are based on your
        desired tastes in comparison to average standards for those wines.
        For example a Merlot from Australia has a softer mouth feel due to lower
        acids than a N. American merlot. This is due to the grape and the
        characteristics instilled by the winemaker.
        If you like what you make, then that's the test that counts even though
        your wine may not win a medal in a competition.
        It's like bourbon. I love Makers Mark and cannot stand Wild
        Turkey. However, both rate as good bourbons.
        Some folks love single malts from Scotland. Personally I like a blended
        Scotch like Red Label. Only had blue label once. It lacked the bite that I
        like in a scotch.
        At 01:26 PM 4/2/05, you wrote:


        >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, donald holcombe
        ><blackledge_02@y...> wrote:
        > > I just got through checking almost 100 wine recipes ! To my shagrien
        >it seems there are indeed some wines that are made with little or no
        >water ! Mostly Europian grapes like Vinefera.Some table grapes may
        >work this
        >
        >You must be kidding again by telling that some wines are not made with
        >water. You should say that all wines are made without adding water.
        >Could there be an exception to the rule by adding one gallon of water
        >to 100 gallon of wine, it is still possible but I never heard of it.
        >You can search a post I made in this group or probably in the other
        >distiller group. Search for piquette. When I began to drink my wine, I
        >could not drink the piquette anymore so I distilled it. If the grapes
        >in my garden do produce a good enough wine, I can eat them, make some
        >jelly or jam or make some grappa but adding water is out of question.
        >It would not be wine anymore.
        >
        >Pin
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        Derek Hamlet
        Victoria, B.C.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • yahpinot
        ... it seems there are indeed some wines that are made with little or no water ! Mostly Europian grapes like Vinefera.Some table grapes may work this You must
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 2 1:26 PM
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, donald holcombe
          <blackledge_02@y...> wrote:
          > I just got through checking almost 100 wine recipes ! To my shagrien
          it seems there are indeed some wines that are made with little or no
          water ! Mostly Europian grapes like Vinefera.Some table grapes may
          work this

          You must be kidding again by telling that some wines are not made with
          water. You should say that all wines are made without adding water.
          Could there be an exception to the rule by adding one gallon of water
          to 100 gallon of wine, it is still possible but I never heard of it.
          You can search a post I made in this group or probably in the other
          distiller group. Search for piquette. When I began to drink my wine, I
          could not drink the piquette anymore so I distilled it. If the grapes
          in my garden do produce a good enough wine, I can eat them, make some
          jelly or jam or make some grappa but adding water is out of question.
          It would not be wine anymore.

          Pin
        • yahpinot
          If the grapes ... make some ... question.
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 2 1:31 PM
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            If the grapes
            > in my garden do "NOT" produce a good enough wine, I can eat them,
            make some
            > jelly or jam or make some grappa but adding water is out of
            question.
            > It would not be wine anymore.
            >
            > Pin
          • Mike Nixon
            yahpinot wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: Wine Whine (snip) You should say that all wines are made without adding water. (snip) ========================== Try
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 2 2:03 PM
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              yahpinot wrote:
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: Wine Whine

              (snip) You should say that all wines are made without adding water. (snip)
              ==========================
              Try making an elderflower wine/'champagne' without using water!
              Not all wines start out life as grapes.

              All the best,
              Mike N
            • yahpinot
              ... reasons have ... winemakers ... on the ... But it would be a small amount of water. I can not see how you could add 1 gallon of water to 1 gallon of juice
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 2 2:53 PM
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                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@s...>
                wrote:
                > Sometimes you will get grapes that for climactic and grower
                reasons have
                > too much sugar for the wine you wish to make. In such a case
                winemakers
                > add water to achieve the desired specific gravity. This depends
                on the
                > wine you are making.

                But it would be a small amount of water. I can not see how you could
                add 1 gallon of water to 1 gallon of juice which was my main
                concern. Merlot is a very sweet grape so the first time I made wine
                from it, the wine was sweet. I prefer dry wine so the next time I
                made a merlot I add champagne yeasts with some nutrients so that
                most or all of the sugar is fermented. The wild yeasts on the skin
                of the grapes are not strong enough to support the higher level of
                alcohol from Merlot or Zinfandel. I am no expert in wine but I would
                prefer to mix a less sweet grape like Chardonnais to the Merlot (in
                fact this is what I did and I am drinking some right now ;) ) to
                lower the alcohol degree. I do not contest what you wrote above
                about adding some water which I never did.

                >Then you adjust ph and titratable acids to get the
                > optimum readings at the start. Most serious winemakers take
                readings of ph
                > and TA when the wine goes from primary to secondary for their
                > records. Then sometime before bottling (certainly after the
                mololactic
                > fermention if there is one), they will adjust for their desired
                ph, TA and
                > free sulphur before bottling. These final readings are based on
                your
                > desired tastes in comparison to average standards for those wines.

                These are the steps to do to improve the wine. My wines made from
                California grape have always been good but it does not mean it was
                optimum. I will consider next September to check the PH and
                titratable acid. I will have to do it for sure for the grapes if I
                can call cutting this way growing in my garden.

                > For example a Merlot from Australia has a softer mouth feel due to
                lower
                > acids than a N. American merlot. This is due to the grape and the
                > characteristics instilled by the winemaker.
                > If you like what you make, then that's the test that counts even
                though

                Yes as I pointed out above and it is never a bad idea to go one step
                further.

                > your wine may not win a medal in a competition.

                But still being real good. ;)

                > It's like bourbon. I love Makers Mark and cannot stand Wild
                > Turkey. However, both rate as good bourbons.
                > Some folks love single malts from Scotland. Personally I like a
                blended
                > Scotch like Red Label. Only had blue label once. It lacked the
                bite that I
                > like in a scotch.

                I like dry wines a lot better than sweet wines and there is nothing
                wrong about it. Someone who prefer a sweet one will not be wrong
                either. We all have our fantasy about taste. Even a wine turning
                vinegar will be good when some drops are added to a salad however it
                never happened to me and I would really not want it this way. ;)

                I have a question about the titratable acids. I also have read that
                I should ajust it in the book that Harry posted. I obviously did not
                have the time to read it all so the question. I understand that my
                grapes I am growing will be probably too much acid but it is not the
                case for a lot of, if not most of the California grapes. If the
                titratable acids will precipitate later in the wine why would I
                bother so much about it?

                Pin
              • yahpinot
                ... (snip) ... Wine are made from grapes and this is what the discussion was about. If you are talking about the other kind of wines, you are right. As I said,
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 2 3:02 PM
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                  > yahpinot wrote:
                  > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Wine Whine
                  >
                  > (snip) You should say that all wines are made without adding water.
                  (snip)
                  > ==========================
                  > Try making an elderflower wine/'champagne' without using water!
                  > Not all wines start out life as grapes.
                  >
                  > All the best,
                  > Mike N

                  Wine are made from grapes and this is what the discussion was about.
                  If you are talking about the other kind of wines, you are right.
                  As I said, if the fruits or "put any stuff here" do not contain enough
                  water you will have to use some. If you add too much water to your
                  wine you will degrade the quality of it. You took one sentence out of
                  the context. I also said it was possible to add water even if I had
                  never heard of it but you probably missed it.

                  Pin
                • Mike Nixon
                  yahpinot wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: Wine Whine (snip) You took one sentence out of the context. (snip) ====================== I always like taking things
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 2 4:07 PM
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                    yahpinot wrote:
                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: Wine Whine

                    (snip) You took one sentence out of the context. (snip)
                    ======================
                    I always like taking things out of context ... it broadens the discussion
                    :-))
                    Your words of wisdom are, naturally, correct.

                    All the best,
                    Mike N
                  • Harry
                    Hmmm... try that again... ... / ... /---- ... / Slainte! regards Harry
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 2 4:41 PM
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                      Hmmm... try that again...


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                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
                    • Harry
                      ... Definitely too much wine.... Time to get back to spirits! Slainte! regards Harry
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 2 4:46 PM
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                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:

                        Definitely too much wine....<G>
                        Time to get back to spirits!


                        Slainte!
                        regards Harry
                      • donald holcombe
                        There is on end to the knowledge of the people in this group ! Tonight I will tip a glass of wine (or maybe piquette) in your honor. Every time I stir the pot
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 2 11:34 PM
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                          There is on end to the knowledge of the people in this group ! Tonight I will tip a glass of wine (or maybe piquette) in your honor. Every time I stir the pot theres no telling what will come up. YOU GUYS are great fun. The problem is with all this new knowledge I dont know when Ill get to try all this new stuff. THANKS keep the pot stirrin.

                          Mike Nixon <mike@...> wrote:yahpinot wrote:
                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: Wine Whine

                          (snip) You took one sentence out of the context. (snip)
                          ======================
                          I always like taking things out of context ... it broadens the discussion
                          :-))
                          Your words of wisdom are, naturally, correct.

                          All the best,
                          Mike N




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                        • donald holcombe
                          CUTE real CUTE ! Harry wrote: Hmmm... try that again... ... / ... /---- ... / Slainte! regards Harry Distillers
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 2 11:40 PM
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                            CUTE real CUTE !

                            Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                            Hmmm... try that again...


                            |\___/|
                            / \
                            | /\__/|
                            ||\ <.><.>
                            | _ > )
                            \ /----
                            | -\/
                            / \

                            Slainte!
                            regards Harry





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                            FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



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                          • donald holcombe
                            INDEED ! ... Definitely too much wine.... Time to get back to spirits! Slainte! regards Harry Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/ FAQ and
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 2 11:41 PM
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                              INDEED !

                              Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:

                              Definitely too much wine....<G>
                              Time to get back to spirits!


                              Slainte!
                              regards Harry





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                              FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



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                            • Cary Rhodes
                              being careful here -- sometimes knowledge is confused with bullshit. I m real good at that. cary r ... Tonight I will tip a glass of wine (or maybe piquette)
                              Message 14 of 15 , Apr 3 5:51 PM
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                                being careful here -- sometimes knowledge is confused with bullshit.


                                I'm real good at that.

                                cary r




                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, donald holcombe
                                <blackledge_02@y...> wrote:
                                > There is on end to the knowledge of the people in this group !
                                Tonight I will tip a glass of wine (or maybe piquette) in your
                                honor. Every time I stir the pot theres no telling what will come
                                up. YOU GUYS are great fun. The problem is with all this new
                                knowledge I dont know when Ill get to try all this new stuff.
                                THANKS keep the pot stirrin.
                                >
                                > Mike Nixon <mike@s...> wrote:yahpinot wrote:
                                > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Wine Whine
                                >
                                > (snip) You took one sentence out of the context. (snip)
                                > ======================
                                > I always like taking things out of context ... it broadens the
                                discussion
                                > :-))
                                > Your words of wisdom are, naturally, correct.
                                >
                                > All the best,
                                > Mike N
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                Service.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals
                                >
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                              • Levi Langershank
                                Hmmm...I was thinking the exact opposite...(BS confused w/knowledge)...: ) Levi (THIS REPLY HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY EDITED) ...
                                Message 15 of 15 , Apr 3 10:19 PM
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                                  Hmmm...I was thinking the exact opposite...(BS confused w/knowledge)...:>)
                                  Levi

                                  (THIS REPLY HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY EDITED)

                                  >From: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@...>

                                  >Subject: [Distillers] Re: Wine Whine
                                  >being careful here -- sometimes knowledge is confused with bullshit.

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