Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

## Re: Trial Run on Reflx Column

Expand Messages
• ... through job. I do ... taste. I f I ... Ok. There s a couple of things you need to get your head around. 1) The volume of a column is Pi x R^2 x Ht. For a
Message 1 of 8 , Jan 1, 2005
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, suitcase1499@a... wrote:
>
> This was 50 liter turbo sugar wash and planning just a once
through job. I do
> some test on when to take the heart on some mostly by smell and
taste. I f I
> run it hotter I will lose alot of %ABV right ??? Thanks
>
> Suitcase

Ok. There's a couple of things you need to get your head around.

1) The volume of a column is Pi x R^2 x Ht.
For a 1.5" column that's 46 cu.in.
For a 2" column that's 81 cu.in.
There's a considerable difference for a slight increase, no?

2) For any given power input, if you halve the column volume, as in
the above, then the vapor speed up the column will double. This of
course means less purity of product. It also means that product
takeoff through a column & liebig (or any setup) is limited by the
harmonic balancing of power input and column capacity Just throwing
monster condensers at the problem doesn't cut it. Slow vapor speed
is crucial to a clean product, be it whiskey or vodka or whatever.

Regarding tests:
The accepted throw-away for 25L beer is 50ml. It then follows that
for 50L it would be at least 100ml, no? But smell is always a
deciding factor. Heads is a different matter. It can be as much as
30% of the run, or as little as 10%. The only way to determine it
is to take small samples (20ml) and dilute them with 2 volumes of
distilled water (40ml). If it's cloudy, it's still heads. If it's
clear, it's hearts. That's how the Scottish Malt distillers test in
the spirit safe (they use larger samples, obviously). The trick is
being able to take just a LITTLE of the last of the heads to give a
distinct note to your whisky. One way is to collect the heads in
small containers, say 200 ~ 300ml, and then take the LAST one to add
to the genuine hearts.

If you can understand all of the above ramblings, we'll make a
stillman outta you yet. :-))

HTH
Slainte!
regards Harry
• ... One more point I forgot to mention. Propane is a fast heat source, but it s economy and efficiency is degraded if it s just a gas ring under a pot.
Message 2 of 8 , Jan 1, 2005
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
wrote:
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, suitcase1499@a... wrote:
> >
> > This was 50 liter turbo sugar wash and planning just a once
> through job. I do
> > some test on when to take the heart on some mostly by smell and
> taste. I f I
> > run it hotter I will lose alot of %ABV right ??? Thanks
> >
> > Suitcase
>
>
>
> Ok. There's a couple of things you need to get your head around.
>
> 1) The volume of a column is Pi x R^2 x Ht.
<snip>

One more point I forgot to mention. Propane is a fast heat source,
but it's economy and efficiency is degraded if it's just a gas ring
under a pot. Much heat is lost to the surrounding air. It really
needs to be incorporated into some form of firebox. Surround the
thing with fire-brick to direct all the heat to the pot bottom.
Conversely, build a metal skirt with air draught holes so the flames
get oxygen, yet the heat is trapped. You'll be amazed at how much
quicker it heats the beer, as well as being somewhat safer. Of
course it will reduce the amount of heat you'll have in the barn,
but you've got internal heating with whiskey, no? :-))

Slainte!
regards Harry
• In a message dated 1/1/2005 7:52:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... OK Harry, You lost me there I m a dumbass country boy with a little education not a Masters
Message 3 of 8 , Jan 1, 2005
In a message dated 1/1/2005 7:52:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gnikomson2000@... writes:

> Ok. There's a couple of things you need to get your head around.
>
> 1) The volume of a column is Pi x R^2 x Ht.

OK Harry,
You lost me there I'm a dumbass country boy with a little
education not a Masters Degree (LOL) I have no idea what that means. and I do
have a metal ring not fire brick just steel with air holes to direct the heat, a
friend made it for me to fit the bottom of the keg. But it still helps heat
the barn I have it in an enclosed stall of 8' x 12' with a lot of air holes
believe me. Bottom line is how can I increase output would two columns do it or
just need two stills.???? Thanks

Oh yeah I do have that internal heat source for myself 86 proof plain sugar
head : )

Suitcase.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• ... little ... means. and I do ... direct the heat, a ... helps heat ... air holes ... columns do it or ... plain sugar ... Sorry about the maths equation. The
Message 4 of 8 , Jan 1, 2005
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, suitcase1499@a... wrote:
> OK Harry,
> You lost me there I'm a dumbass country boy with a
little
> education not a Masters Degree (LOL) I have no idea what that
means. and I do
> have a metal ring not fire brick just steel with air holes to
direct the heat, a
> friend made it for me to fit the bottom of the keg. But it still
helps heat
> the barn I have it in an enclosed stall of 8' x 12' with a lot of
air holes
> believe me. Bottom line is how can I increase output would two
columns do it or
> just need two stills.???? Thanks
>
> Oh yeah I do have that internal heat source for myself 86 proof
plain sugar
> head : )
>
> Suitcase.

Sorry about the maths equation. The reason I gave it is to explain
why a small increase in column diameter gives such a large change in
performance or output, which is the "bottom line answer" to your
question. YOU NEED A BIGGER DIAMETER COLUMN to achieve bigger
output. (not shouting, just emphasising) :-)

All is relative. To increase output, you need to put more vapor up
the column. This requires more applied heat. More heat requires an
increase in column capacity, otherwise the vapor speed will increase
also, and reduce your purity.

The math on column capacity is easy to follow if you remember back
to school when they taught about circles. There are formulae for
circumference, area, cylinder volume (that's what we want).

To explain: Pi is always 3.1416 (near enough). R is radius of
column (half the diameter). ^2 is the previous number (radius)
multiplied by itself. Ht is the height of the column.
So for your column (cylinder) it's:
Pi x R^2 x Ht
3.1416 x 0.75" x 0.75" x 26" which gives 46 cubic inches.

If you increase the column to 2", then:
3.1416 x 1.0" x 1.0" x 26" which gives 81 cubic inches, nearly
double the volume or capacity.

This will enable you to increase the heat input without increasing
the vapor speed. Then you'll get your increased product output and
no loss of quality. But remember, all is relative. If you increase
the heat, you need to remove that increased heat at the condenser,
IOW up the coolant flowrate to match.

Slainte!
regards Harry
• In a message dated 1/1/2005 11:43:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, gnikomson2000@yahoo.com writes: This will enable you to increase the heat input without
Message 5 of 8 , Jan 1, 2005
In a message dated 1/1/2005 11:43:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gnikomson2000@... writes:

This will enable you to increase the heat input without increasing
the vapor speed. Then you'll get your increased product output and
no loss of quality. But remember, all is relative. If you increase
the heat, you need to remove that increased heat at the condenser,
IOW up the coolant flowrate to match.

Slainte!
regards Harry

My pump is a standard sump pump it recirculates the water at 25GPM or 1250
GPH this should do Huh??? I'm thinking of going to a 3" or maybe 4" column, As
all my friends are drunks as well (LOL) How much output could I expect from
that??? Thanks Harry. This shit is new to me I've always been potstill man we
never had a thermometer in one I don't think till I was about 16 or 18 years
old.I'm from the mountains of North Carolina all we knew was corn liquor and now
I'm trying to learn some new stuff to pass on to my grand kids. I really
appreciate all you do to help, The internet is a graet thing since I've finally
learned how to use it. Many thanks Harry.

Suitcase

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• ... or 1250 ... I m thinking of going to a 3 or maybe 4 column, As ... expect from ... Thanks Harry. This shit is new to me I ve always been potstill man we
Message 6 of 8 , Jan 1, 2005
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, suitcase1499@a... wrote:
> My pump is a standard sump pump it recirculates the water at 25GPM
or 1250
> GPH this should do Huh???

>>>>>> Definitely.

I'm thinking of going to a 3" or maybe 4" column, As
> all my friends are drunks as well (LOL) How much output could I
expect from
> that???

>>>>>>> Heh, do the math. ;-)

Thanks Harry. This shit is new to me I've always been potstill man
we
> never had a thermometer in one I don't think till I was about 16
or 18 years
> old.I'm from the mountains of North Carolina all we knew was corn
liquor and now
> I'm trying to learn some new stuff to pass on to my grand kids.

>>>>>>>>> If you want to leave a legacy, lose the liebig section and
go to a proper reflux outfit with condenser to match. There's loads
about coils, offset and crossflow heads in the archives and on
Tony's site http://homedistiller.org
Trust me, the grandkids will appreciate it.

I really
> appreciate all you do to help, The internet is a graet thing since
I've finally
> learned how to use it. Many thanks Harry.

>>>>>>>>>>>> You're welcome. Just a word about that 3 or 4"
column. Now you're getting into the realms of shall we say "above
average" home distilling. ;-)
You'll need to have a much larger surface area in the boiling wash
for the larger volume of vapor to escape. A simple solution to that
is to take said keg, turn it on it's SIDE, cut a hole in the side to
match your salad bowl and big column, then put 2 or 3 burners or
modified gaspipes under the thing. Of course you'll need to plate
off the existing hole you've got. With a rig like that you could
get a couple GALLONS per hour, but it's no longer a hobby thing, is
it? :^)

Slainte!
regards Harry
• In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:14:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... go to a proper reflux outfit with condenser to match. There s loads about coils, offset and
Message 7 of 8 , Jan 1, 2005
In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:14:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gnikomson2000@... writes:

>>>>>>>>> If you want to leave a legacy, lose the liebig section and
go to a proper reflux outfit with condenser to match. There's loads
about coils, offset and crossflow heads in the archives and on
Tony's site http://homedistiller.org
Trust me, the grandkids will appreciate it

Do you mean like a Nixon Stone or something like Alex makes so as the vapor
doesn't flow through the condensor , just the coolant and the vapor goes to it
condeses and falls back down ??? As I said I'm just a dumbass country boy...
Thanks Again Harry I really apreciate all your help. Excuse my spelling it's
12:30 am here 1/2/05 I'm about half lit. : ) What time is it there.

Suitcase

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.