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RE: [new_distillers] scrubbers & polishing

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  • Tony & Elle Ackland
    ... twisted ... I know we ve discussed this before, but I d like to know of various peoples experiences etc. The original thread was that C was having some
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 9, 2001
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      >STOP- I have gone through the same problems you have-
      >DO NOT use stainless steel or glass as the packing for your still- use
      >copper scouring pads instead (you can also make raschig rings out of some
      >1/4" copper tubing, just cut it into 1/4" long pieces. if you can get
      >up to 93% carbon is not really needed- just put a lot of copper into the
      >still and it will take care of the flavor problem. The scouring pads
      >(copper and stainless steel) are those little wads of metal wire all
      twisted
      >together that you use to scrub pots and pans with- easy to find (just use
      >the copper kind).

      I know we've discussed this before, but I'd like to know of various peoples
      experiences etc. The original thread was that "C" was having some flavour
      problems come through in his alcohol, despite it distilling it at a very
      high purity (was it 93% ?). I've got a mate at work here with a similar
      problem. Both have "all stainless steel" setups.

      UPS replied (above) saying to put some copper into the system.

      Helge Schmickl of http://www.schnaps.co.at/ writes : "According to relevant
      literature, copper should theoretically reduce the amount of esters/organic
      acids because of its catalytic impact. Basic rules of organic chemistry
      point to the same outcome. But we didn't notice any difference in
      taste/smell when distilling simultaneously with two equipments, one was
      completely made of glass, the other one of copper. The fermentation has a
      much greater effect on the result. Esters and especially organic acids
      arise from misfermentations of leafs/twigs or rotten parts of fruit. Work
      as clean as possible during the whole fermentation process and use
      cultivated yeast. Then you shouldn't have any problems with esters/organic
      acids. Try this: Fill a copper-tube (length appr. 30-50cm) with copper
      wool. Put this tube between the distilling pot and the cooler (condenser)-
      you SHOULD notice a difference"

      The following comments are from the Macallan Distillery at
      http://www.themacallan-themalt.com :"The size and shape of the stills are
      crucially important. The more contact the wash and low wines have with
      copper the better, since it acts as a catalyst, removing sulphury
      impurities (in the wash still) and promoting the creation of esters (in the
      spirit still) - effectively cleaning and lightening the spirit......."

      I use stainless steel scrubbers in my still, but then the column itself is
      copper, as is the condensor coil.

      Does anyone else have an "all stainless steel" construction (or at least a
      "copper free" one) ? If so, do you have problems with the flavour/odour ?
      (I'm thinking about the "Euro" and "Desti" stills being sold)

      Has anyone done conversion - adding copper to a still, and noticing a
      difference ? Can you describe the results ?

      Should there be a minimum amount of copper present in a still construction
      ? If so, how much ? (it probably needs to offer a particular amount of
      surface area proportional to the amount of vapour & liquid present).

      What different methods could be done to achieve this ? So far we have ...
      * copper scouring pads
      * all copper construction (tubes and condensors etc)
      * putting strips of copper loose amongst the packing ?

      Any comments ?

      Tony
    • G&N
      See in Alo Normans book ... The home distillation handbook...it is quoted that a scotch manufacturer changed to an all stainless still and the virgin whiskey
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 11, 2001
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        See in Alo Normans book ... The home distillation handbook...it is quoted
        that a scotch manufacturer changed to an all stainless still and the virgin
        whiskey had a Turnip like smell and they had to put some copper back in to
        rectify the problem

        Glenn
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Tony & Elle Ackland" <Tony.Ackland@...>
        To: "'New Distillers newsgroup'" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: "'Distillers newsgroup'" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 6:02 AM
        Subject: [Distillers] RE: [new_distillers] scrubbers & polishing


        > >STOP- I have gone through the same problems you have-
        > >DO NOT use stainless steel or glass as the packing for your still- use
        > >copper scouring pads instead (you can also make raschig rings out of some
        > >1/4" copper tubing, just cut it into 1/4" long pieces. if you can get
        > >up to 93% carbon is not really needed- just put a lot of copper into the
        > >still and it will take care of the flavor problem. The scouring pads
        > >(copper and stainless steel) are those little wads of metal wire all
        > twisted
        > >together that you use to scrub pots and pans with- easy to find (just use
        > >the copper kind).
        >
        > I know we've discussed this before, but I'd like to know of various
        peoples
        > experiences etc. The original thread was that "C" was having some flavour
        > problems come through in his alcohol, despite it distilling it at a very
        > high purity (was it 93% ?). I've got a mate at work here with a similar
        > problem. Both have "all stainless steel" setups.
        >
        > UPS replied (above) saying to put some copper into the system.
        >
        > Helge Schmickl of http://www.schnaps.co.at/ writes : "According to
        relevant
        > literature, copper should theoretically reduce the amount of
        esters/organic
        > acids because of its catalytic impact. Basic rules of organic chemistry
        > point to the same outcome. But we didn't notice any difference in
        > taste/smell when distilling simultaneously with two equipments, one was
        > completely made of glass, the other one of copper. The fermentation has a
        > much greater effect on the result. Esters and especially organic acids
        > arise from misfermentations of leafs/twigs or rotten parts of fruit. Work
        > as clean as possible during the whole fermentation process and use
        > cultivated yeast. Then you shouldn't have any problems with esters/organic
        > acids. Try this: Fill a copper-tube (length appr. 30-50cm) with copper
        > wool. Put this tube between the distilling pot and the cooler (condenser)-
        > you SHOULD notice a difference"
        >
        > The following comments are from the Macallan Distillery at
        > http://www.themacallan-themalt.com :"The size and shape of the stills are
        > crucially important. The more contact the wash and low wines have with
        > copper the better, since it acts as a catalyst, removing sulphury
        > impurities (in the wash still) and promoting the creation of esters (in
        the
        > spirit still) - effectively cleaning and lightening the spirit......."
        >
        > I use stainless steel scrubbers in my still, but then the column itself is
        > copper, as is the condensor coil.
        >
        > Does anyone else have an "all stainless steel" construction (or at least a
        > "copper free" one) ? If so, do you have problems with the flavour/odour ?
        > (I'm thinking about the "Euro" and "Desti" stills being sold)
        >
        > Has anyone done conversion - adding copper to a still, and noticing a
        > difference ? Can you describe the results ?
        >
        > Should there be a minimum amount of copper present in a still construction
        > ? If so, how much ? (it probably needs to offer a particular amount of
        > surface area proportional to the amount of vapour & liquid present).
        >
        > What different methods could be done to achieve this ? So far we have ...
        > * copper scouring pads
        > * all copper construction (tubes and condensors etc)
        > * putting strips of copper loose amongst the packing ?
        >
        > Any comments ?
        >
        > Tony
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • G&N
        I have done my trial of the copper scrubbers against the stainless ones in my all stainless still and there was a distinct difference between the 2 ....the
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 1, 2001
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          I have done my trial of the copper scrubbers against the stainless ones in
          my all stainless still and there was a distinct difference between the 2
          ....the copper run didn't seem to make any difference in the 500ml batches
          coming off the still .....i was a bit disappointed really ....but when the 2
          runs were in there own bottles of 2 litres each ..the stainless run was very
          acrid in smell and quiet off putting ....hard to explain the smell but as
          distillers you would have some idea...... the copper run had a strong scent
          but nothing like the stainless one ...just more of a strong spirit smell


          i will be sticking to the copper scrubbers for sure i recon

          Glenn
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "G&N" <glennnat@...>
          To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 7:06 PM
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] scrubbers & polishing


          > I am keen to try and see the difference as soon as i can source some
          copper
          > scrubbers ...i have a stainless steel only still at the moment and even at
          > 93% the smell of the spirit is a very acrid type of smell but the carbon
          > polishes it up nicely ....i break my distilling up into two lots of the
          same
          > wash......... as soon as i try the two i will post my results.
          >
          > Regards Glenn
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <ups474@...>
          > To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 8:23 AM
          > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] scrubbers & polishing
          >
          >
          > > I started out with a purchased (mail order) euro-still. I ran some
          simple
          > > sugar mash through it, and it tasted awfull- yeasty, sulfury, with an
          > > aftertaste I can only describe as "metallic cabbage- flavored".
          FInally,
          > I
          > > figured my column needed cleaning so I totally took it apart- out fell a
          > > couple of steel scouring pads and a large pile of polished, broken
          glass.
          > > This I rather promptly threw out, replacing it with copper scouring pads
          > > (except where the 3 cooling tubes pass into the column- that space is
          > filled
          > > with copper tubing cut into 1/4" lengths to make a copper rachig ring).
          > > After just one run through this new packing the sugar mash was great.
          It
          > > took 2 runs (run, diluted down with water, and run again) just to make
          the
          > > stuff "drinkable" when the column had no copper- now a much smoother
          > spirit
          > > flows out with only one run, and no carbon polishing. The eurostill is
          > > capable of 93-95% purity, even with the "non-standard" packing I use.
          > COPPER
          > > COUNTS!!!!
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • glennnat@southwest.com.au
          I did another run with the ss scrubbers against the copper ones ....i thoroughly cleaned the stainless ones with a citric acid solution before the run through
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 19, 2001
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            I did another run with the ss scrubbers against the copper
            ones ....i thoroughly cleaned the stainless ones with a citric acid
            solution before the run through the still ...the result was the same
            as before ....the stainless one has a very acrid smell to it as to
            the copper ones being more of the spirit type smell.


            Glenn







            -- In Distillers@y..., "G&N" <glennnat@s...> wrote:
            > I have done my trial of the copper scrubbers against the stainless
            ones in
            > my all stainless still and there was a distinct difference between
            the 2
            > ....the copper run didn't seem to make any difference in the 500ml
            batches
            > coming off the still .....i was a bit disappointed really ....but
            when the 2
            > runs were in there own bottles of 2 litres each ..the stainless run
            was very
            > acrid in smell and quiet off putting ....hard to explain the smell
            but as
            > distillers you would have some idea...... the copper run had a
            strong scent
            > but nothing like the stainless one ...just more of a strong spirit
            smell
            >
            >
            > i will be sticking to the copper scrubbers for sure i recon
            >
            > Glenn
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "G&N" <glennnat@s...>
            > To: <new_distillers@y...>
            > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 7:06 PM
            > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] scrubbers & polishing
            >
            >
            > > I am keen to try and see the difference as soon as i can source
            some
            > copper
            > > scrubbers ...i have a stainless steel only still at the moment
            and even at
            > > 93% the smell of the spirit is a very acrid type of smell but the
            carbon
            > > polishes it up nicely ....i break my distilling up into two lots
            of the
            > same
            > > wash......... as soon as i try the two i will post my results.
            > >
            > > Regards Glenn
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: <ups474@a...>
            > > To: <new_distillers@y...>
            > > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 8:23 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] scrubbers & polishing
            > >
            > >
            > > > I started out with a purchased (mail order) euro-still. I ran
            some
            > simple
            > > > sugar mash through it, and it tasted awfull- yeasty, sulfury,
            with an
            > > > aftertaste I can only describe as "metallic cabbage- flavored".
            > FInally,
            > > I
            > > > figured my column needed cleaning so I totally took it apart-
            out fell a
            > > > couple of steel scouring pads and a large pile of polished,
            broken
            > glass.
            > > > This I rather promptly threw out, replacing it with copper
            scouring pads
            > > > (except where the 3 cooling tubes pass into the column- that
            space is
            > > filled
            > > > with copper tubing cut into 1/4" lengths to make a copper
            rachig ring).
            > > > After just one run through this new packing the sugar mash was
            great.
            > It
            > > > took 2 runs (run, diluted down with water, and run again) just
            to make
            > the
            > > > stuff "drinkable" when the column had no copper- now a much
            smoother
            > > spirit
            > > > flows out with only one run, and no carbon polishing. The
            eurostill is
            > > > capable of 93-95% purity, even with the "non-standard" packing
            I use.
            > > COPPER
            > > > COUNTS!!!!
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
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