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Just wondering

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  • popwahtosh
    Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the U.S. or where one might find a copy? I know you can own a still...just can t use it to make
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 30, 2004
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      Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the U.S.
      or where one might find a copy? I know you can own a still...just
      can't use it to make spirits without a permit. My main questions
      are...do they have to catch you in the act or can they just use home
      made spirits that they find on your property as evidence to convict
      you? And, at what point does it become a felony?

      Common sense tells one that with all the 'drug runners'
      and 'terrorist' running amonk, they really don't give a ratsass if
      I'm making a couple of gallons of 'shine per year out in the chicken
      house. Nor do they have the time or money to investigate, obtain a
      search warrent, and put me on trial for months. At least, not for my
      little pissant operation.

      Besides, it's going to be tough for them to figure out which 2 days
      per year I'm running the still and where my gallon jug is hidden

      I was wondering too, if anybody has acually talked to any law
      inforcement people or lawyers to get their take on any of this.

      Just wondering,

      Pop
    • Levi Langershank
      Do your thing and keep it to yourself...resist the urge to show off you hobby to others,especially neighbors who may get pissed off with you in the
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 30, 2004
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        Do your thing and keep it to yourself...resist the urge to show off you
        hobby to others,especially neighbors who may get 'pissed off' with you in
        the future....this simple advice has worked for me over the last 20 years or
        so....:>)


        >From: "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@...>
        >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [Distillers] Just wondering
        >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:41:27 -0000
        >
        >Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the U.S.
        >or where one might find a copy? I know you can own a still...just
        >can't use it to make spirits without a permit. My main questions
        >are...do they have to catch you in the act or can they just use home
        >made spirits that they find on your property as evidence to convict
        >you? And, at what point does it become a felony?
        >
        >Common sense tells one that with all the 'drug runners'
        >and 'terrorist' running amonk, they really don't give a ratsass if
        >I'm making a couple of gallons of 'shine per year out in the chicken
        >house. Nor do they have the time or money to investigate, obtain a
        >search warrent, and put me on trial for months. At least, not for my
        >little pissant operation.
        >
        >Besides, it's going to be tough for them to figure out which 2 days
        >per year I'm running the still and where my gallon jug is hidden
        >
        >I was wondering too, if anybody has acually talked to any law
        >inforcement people or lawyers to get their take on any of this.
        >
        >Just wondering,
        >
        >Pop
        >

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      • Sven Pfitt
        From my understanding, it is not legal to even own a still unless it is proven non-functional. Like holes punched in it. They have one on display at the local
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 30, 2004
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          From my understanding, it is not legal to even own a still unless it
          is proven non-functional. Like holes punched in it.

          They have one on display at the local county fair every year, and
          that is part of the source for my info.

          In addition, I brew beer and know that technically an eisbock is
          illegal as the govt consideres freezing beer and removing the ice to
          be a form of distillation.

          Although I don't distill, I am interested in the process and
          technology. But, I do make beer and the mashing and fermenting are
          the same for both.

          From a legal standpoint, I suspect that what they catch you with,
          they could try to hang you with.

          Now if someone were to do a little distillation and keep quiet, I
          don't see where the govt would get too interested with all they have
          going on. But that is just conjecture on my part.

          Sven
          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@y...>
          wrote:
          > Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the
          U.S.
          > or where one might find a copy? I know you can own a still...just
          > can't use it to make spirits without a permit. My main questions
          > are...do they have to catch you in the act or can they just use
          home
          > made spirits that they find on your property as evidence to convict
          > you? And, at what point does it become a felony?
          ... snip ...
        • popwahtosh
          Yes, they are legal to own in the States, and in operating condition, Sven. There are even manufacturers here that build and sell them to anyone with the money
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 30, 2004
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            Yes, they are legal to own in the States, and in operating
            condition, Sven. There are even manufacturers here that build and
            sell them to anyone with the money to buy one. You can also buy the
            fixens' to distill with. No questions asked.

            Pop
            -------------------------------------------------------

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98@h...>
            wrote:
            > From my understanding, it is not legal to even own a still unless
            it
            > is proven non-functional. Like holes punched in it.
            >
            > They have one on display at the local county fair every year, and
            > that is part of the source for my info.
            >
            > In addition, I brew beer and know that technically an eisbock is
            > illegal as the govt consideres freezing beer and removing the ice
            to
            > be a form of distillation.
            >
            > Although I don't distill, I am interested in the process and
            > technology. But, I do make beer and the mashing and fermenting are
            > the same for both.
            >
            > From a legal standpoint, I suspect that what they catch you with,
            > they could try to hang you with.
            >
            > Now if someone were to do a little distillation and keep quiet, I
            > don't see where the govt would get too interested with all they
            have
            > going on. But that is just conjecture on my part.
            >
            > Sven
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the
            > U.S.
            > > or where one might find a copy? I know you can own a
            still...just
            > > can't use it to make spirits without a permit. My main questions
            > > are...do they have to catch you in the act or can they just use
            > home
            > > made spirits that they find on your property as evidence to
            convict
            > > you? And, at what point does it become a felony?
            > ... snip ...
          • Harry
            ... wrote: ... have ... Who knows what law enforcement sees as an offense . The following is off-topic, but illustrates the strange workings of the
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 30, 2004
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98@h...>
              wrote:
              <snip>
              > Now if someone were to do a little distillation and keep quiet, I
              > don't see where the govt would get too interested with all they
              have
              > going on. But that is just conjecture on my part.
              >
              > Sven



              Who knows what law enforcement sees as an "offense". The following
              is off-topic, but illustrates the strange workings of the law.

              A policeman was on a radio talkback show this morning. He told this
              story. "I was standing on the side of the road giving a driver a
              speeding ticket when this car went past and the passenger pointed at
              me with his hand in the shape of a make-believe gun and
              gestured "shots" at me. I chased the car and ticketed the guy
              for 'public nuisance' offense (new laws)".

              The same copper was asked if these new public nuisance laws covered
              flicking cigarette butts out the window while driving. His
              answer..."No, there's nothing in the laws to cover that, unless it
              can be proved to be an immediate danger to other motorists, which of
              course it isn't".

              In other words, it's alright to risk burning out thousands of acres
              of countryside and homes, but don't you dare make hand gestures at
              our fine officers. I wonder which is more serious.

              Anyway, after that ramble, the bottom line is...keep a low profile
              with distilling (or anything) until the laws are in your favour.

              Slainte!
              regards Harry

              ps.
              The 'public nuisance' who crash-tackled the runner in the olympics
              and cost him the gold medal, was let off with a 12 months suspended
              sentence to be of 'good behaviour' Go figure.
            • David
              I tend to agree, if the American government agencies don t have bigger fish to fry than a hobby distiller, 2-4 gal per yr(?) as opposed to 200 gallons of beer
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 30, 2004
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                I tend to agree, if the American government agencies don't have bigger fish
                to fry than a hobby distiller, 2-4 gal per yr(?) as opposed to 200 gallons
                of beer or wine legally made, if I'm correct, then they need to get a life,
                no offence meant to any govt. or group. Keep your business yours. Dave
                -just my opinion





                At 05:53 PM 8/30/04 +0000, you wrote:
                >
                >Do your thing and keep it to yourself...resist the urge to show off you
                >hobby to others,especially neighbors who may get 'pissed off' with you in
                >the future....this simple advice has worked for me over the last 20 years or
                >so....:>)
                >
                >
                >>From: "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@...>
                >>Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                >>To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                >>Subject: [Distillers] Just wondering
                >>Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:41:27 -0000
                >>
                >>Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the U.S.
                >>or where one might find a copy? I know you can own a still...just
                >>can't use it to make spirits without a permit. My main questions
                >>are...do they have to catch you in the act or can they just use home
                >>made spirits that they find on your property as evidence to convict
                >>you? And, at what point does it become a felony?
                >>
                >>Common sense tells one that with all the 'drug runners'
                >>and 'terrorist' running amonk, they really don't give a ratsass if
                >>I'm making a couple of gallons of 'shine per year out in the chicken
                >>house. Nor do they have the time or money to investigate, obtain a
                >>search warrent, and put me on trial for months. At least, not for my
                >>little pissant operation.
                >>
                >>Besides, it's going to be tough for them to figure out which 2 days
                >>per year I'm running the still and where my gallon jug is hidden
                >>
                >>I was wondering too, if anybody has acually talked to any law
                >>inforcement people or lawyers to get their take on any of this.
                >>
                >>Just wondering,
                >>
                >>Pop
                >>
                >
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                >
                >
                >
                > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Sven Pfitt
                That does not mean that they are legal. It just means people are getting away with it. There have been plenty of links to the appropriate Govt web sites and
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 30, 2004
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                  That does not mean that they are legal. It just means people are
                  getting away with it.

                  There have been plenty of links to the appropriate Govt web sites and
                  appropriate statutes.

                  Every system I've seen advdertised is for "Water Purification",
                  "Herbal Essential Oil Extraction" or some other such to avoid
                  technical legal culpability.

                  Just because you can buy it does not mean you can "Legally" own it.

                  You want to delude yourself into thinking that it is legal, go right
                  ahead. The bottom line for me is that it is until I see a "Federal
                  Government Statute" stating differntly I will continue to believe it
                  is illegal. Then I'll worry about the "State" Statutes.

                  Good luck.

                  Sven
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Yes, they are legal to own in the States, and in operating
                  > condition, Sven. There are even manufacturers here that build and
                  > sell them to anyone with the money to buy one. You can also buy the
                  > fixens' to distill with. No questions asked.
                  >
                  > Pop
                  > -------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98@h...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > From my understanding, it is not legal to even own a still unless
                  > it
                  > > is proven non-functional. Like holes punched in it.
                  > >
                  > > They have one on display at the local county fair every year, and
                  > > that is part of the source for my info.
                  > >
                  > > In addition, I brew beer and know that technically an eisbock is
                  > > illegal as the govt consideres freezing beer and removing the ice
                  > to
                  > > be a form of distillation.
                  ...snip...
                • Levi Langershank
                  A still is as legal as what you do with it...you can buy a still at WalMart...a Water Distiller is a still ,and is perfectly legal until you use it for
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 31, 2004
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                    A 'still' is as legal as what you do with it...you can buy a 'still' at
                    WalMart...a Water Distiller is a 'still',and is perfectly legal until you
                    use it for some illegal purpose....:>)


                    >From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98@...>





                    >Just because you can buy it does not mean you can "Legally" own it.

                    ...that statement makes about as much sense as a 'soup-sandwich'...:>)

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                  • hexenwolfe
                    According to my understanding of the statutes it works like this... (remember we are talking about a special department of the Government, The Bureau of
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 31, 2004
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                      According to my understanding of the statutes it works like
                      this... (remember we are talking about a special department of the
                      Government, The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. These are
                      the same folks that are responsible for the massacres at Ruby Ridge
                      and Waco, Not a reasonable bunch of folks, and NOT part of the recent
                      realignment of the FBI for purposes of homeland security. The BATF is
                      a department of the TREASURY department, not the Dept. of JUSTICE.)
                      It is legal to own and operate a still in the USA for any purpose
                      except the manufacture of drinkable spirits. It is perfectly OK to
                      distill water, perfume, essential oils, explosives, petroleum, etc.
                      It is also legal to distill ethanol for the purpose of fuel
                      manufacture. If you wish to make biofuel with your corn, you may
                      obtain a fuel permit for $15.00 US per year, to manufacture ethanol
                      biofuel. Of course if you obtain a permit, then you are required to
                      denature (make poisonous with at least 10% gasoline)any resulting
                      biofuel. The design of the still must be capable of delivering at
                      least 95% ethanol by volume. (no pot stills will qualify, only
                      recirculating/condensing column stills)You are subject to record
                      keeping similar to a firearms dealer (bound book with dates, yields,
                      and disposal records). You are subject to unannounced site checks,
                      and you must provide an office space for the use of the BATF officer
                      when and if he ever decides to visit your still.
                      The reason for all these rules is $$$$$$. Every gallon of "proof"
                      spirits (40-50%ABV) is taxed approximately $14 by the Dept of
                      Treasury. (Biofuel is not subject to the tax) The BATF are tax
                      collectors, not law enforcement personnel.Like the Internal Revenue
                      Service, the BATF can act without the restraints, limits and civil
                      protections imposed on law enforcement personnel such as the police
                      of the FBI. Historically, The BATF has operated on a bonus payment
                      system with bonus payments to local informers (such as your
                      neighbors, and the local Sheriff)based on the determined value of the
                      still production.(Incidently, when the local Sheriff is acting on
                      behalf of the BATF, He is a deputy of the BATF and is not subject to
                      the civil protections and constitutional limitations either.)
                      There is a long history in the USA of "sin taxes" on distilled
                      spirits dating back to just a few months after the Revolutionary war.
                      The first Whiskey Tax was imposed to help pay for that war. It was
                      imposed permanently after the Civil War for the same reason.During a
                      recent visit to the Jack Daniels Distillery, one of the barrel
                      warehouses where the whiskey is aged was identified as containing
                      enough whiskey to represent $40 million dollars in tax revenue.


                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the
                      U.S.
                      > or where one might find a copy? I know you can own a still...just
                      > can't use it to make spirits without a permit. My main questions
                      > are...do they have to catch you in the act or can they just use
                      home
                      > made spirits that they find on your property as evidence to convict
                      > you? And, at what point does it become a felony?
                      >
                      > Common sense tells one that with all the 'drug runners'
                      > and 'terrorist' running amonk, they really don't give a ratsass if
                      > I'm making a couple of gallons of 'shine per year out in the
                      chicken
                      > house. Nor do they have the time or money to investigate, obtain a
                      > search warrent, and put me on trial for months. At least, not for
                      my
                      > little pissant operation.
                      >
                      > Besides, it's going to be tough for them to figure out which 2 days
                      > per year I'm running the still and where my gallon jug is hidden
                      >
                      > I was wondering too, if anybody has acually talked to any law
                      > inforcement people or lawyers to get their take on any of this.
                      >
                      > Just wondering,
                      >
                      > Pop
                    • whynda
                      Unfortunately Pop you live in a country the law takes great delight in hounding people to the ends of the earth if it feels it has been cheated. People get 30
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 1, 2004
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                        Unfortunately Pop you live in a country the law takes great delight
                        in hounding people to the ends of the earth if it feels it has been
                        cheated. People get 30 years gaol for smoking a banned substance, so
                        don't be under any illusion that they will overlook your couple of
                        gallons of hooch. the beast advice as several other people have
                        already told you is to keep it all under your hat until such time as
                        the regulations are relaxed.



                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the U.S.
                        > or where one might find a copy? I know you can own a still...just
                        > can't use it to make spirits without a permit. My main questions
                        > are...do they have to catch you in the act or can they just use home
                        > made spirits that they find on your property as evidence to convict
                        > you? And, at what point does it become a felony?
                        >
                        > Common sense tells one that with all the 'drug runners'
                        > and 'terrorist' running amonk, they really don't give a ratsass if
                        > I'm making a couple of gallons of 'shine per year out in the chicken
                        > house. Nor do they have the time or money to investigate, obtain a
                        > search warrent, and put me on trial for months. At least, not for my
                        > little pissant operation.
                        >
                        > Besides, it's going to be tough for them to figure out which 2 days
                        > per year I'm running the still and where my gallon jug is hidden
                        >
                        > I was wondering too, if anybody has acually talked to any law
                        > inforcement people or lawyers to get their take on any of this.
                        >
                        > Just wondering,
                        >
                        > Pop
                      • rodmacd2000
                        The trick is to be selective about which laws to ignore. Yes you can get royally screwed for growing or smoking a few dollars worth of weed (haven t heard any
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 1, 2004
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                          The trick is to be selective about which laws to ignore. Yes you can
                          get royally screwed for growing or smoking a few dollars worth of
                          weed (haven't heard any credable evidence re. those caught by
                          revenoors for distilling a few jugs of booze).

                          But work a financial/stock scam yielding multi multi millions and the
                          worst you face is a mild slap on the wrist - easy to take considering
                          that if you have any sense many of those millions will have been
                          safely stashed where government agencies can't find them.

                          This applies to all of our Western "civilized" countries (well maybe
                          not Kiwiland) - not just the U.S.

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "whynda" <hstuiber@s...> wrote:
                          > Unfortunately Pop you live in a country the law takes great
                          delight
                          > in hounding people to the ends of the earth if it feels it has been
                          > cheated. People get 30 years gaol for smoking a banned substance,
                          so
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@y...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the
                          U.S.
                        • pthoma_nz
                          ... the ... considering ... maybe ... Exactly the same happens here. A couple of companies are being investigated at the mo for 4.5 billion tax evasion... I
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 1, 2004
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                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rodmacd2000" <rmacdoug@r...>
                            wrote:
                            > But work a financial/stock scam yielding multi multi millions and
                            the
                            > worst you face is a mild slap on the wrist - easy to take
                            considering
                            > that if you have any sense many of those millions will have been
                            > safely stashed where government agencies can't find them.
                            >
                            > This applies to all of our Western "civilized" countries (well
                            maybe
                            > not Kiwiland) - not just the U.S.
                            >

                            Exactly the same happens here. A couple of companies are being
                            investigated at the mo for 4.5 billion tax evasion... I bet they get
                            off scott free...
                          • Levi Langershank
                            ...as opposed to many Eastern un-civilized countries where there are many who would cut your head off for drinking alcohol or smoking a cigarette......: ) ...
                            Message 13 of 20 , Sep 1, 2004
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                              ...as opposed to many Eastern un-civilized countries where there are many
                              who would cut your head off for drinking alcohol or smoking a
                              cigarette......:>)


                              >From: "rodmacd2000" <rmacdoug@...>
                              >
                              >The trick is to be selective about which laws to ignore. Yes you can
                              >get royally screwed for growing or smoking a few dollars worth of
                              >weed (haven't heard any credable evidence re. those caught by
                              >revenoors for distilling a few jugs of booze).
                              >
                              >But work a financial/stock scam yielding multi multi millions and the
                              >worst you face is a mild slap on the wrist - easy to take considering
                              >that if you have any sense many of those millions will have been
                              >safely stashed where government agencies can't find them.
                              >
                              >This applies to all of our Western "civilized" countries (well maybe
                              >not Kiwiland) - not just the U.S.
                              >
                              >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "whynda" <hstuiber@s...> wrote:
                              > > Unfortunately Pop you live in a country the law takes great
                              >delight
                              > > in hounding people to the ends of the earth if it feels it has been
                              > > cheated. People get 30 years gaol for smoking a banned substance,
                              >so
                              > >
                              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@y...>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > > Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the
                              >U.S.
                              >
                              >

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                            • pthoma_nz
                              ... are many ... These kind western countries are killing you just as surely by selling you cigarettes.... and selling booze... snip
                              Message 14 of 20 , Sep 1, 2004
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                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Levi Langershank" <unit_77@h...>
                                wrote:
                                > ...as opposed to many Eastern un-civilized countries where there
                                are many
                                > who would cut your head off for drinking alcohol or smoking a
                                > cigarette......:>)
                                >
                                >

                                These kind western countries are killing you just as surely by
                                selling you cigarettes.... and selling booze...

                                snip < 105,000 Americans die annually from alcohol-related causes
                                which could include everything from falls to drunk driving accidents
                                to cirrhosis of the liver. For comparison sake, there are 365,000
                                tobacco-related deaths in the U.S. each year >

                                governments do things that are expediant... chopping off heads,
                                lethal injection, legalisation....
                              • Carter Cathey
                                My father-in-law made his own schnapps while living in Saudi Arabia where the rules are pretty harsh on such things. He had some workers in his house to
                                Message 15 of 20 , Sep 2, 2004
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                                  My father-in-law made his own schnapps while living in Saudi Arabia where
                                  the rules are pretty harsh on such things. He had some workers in his house
                                  to repair something and they found his stash and drank all of it. They
                                  smiled at him when they left knowing that he wasn't going to do anything
                                  about it because you sure can't call the authorities in Saudi and tell them
                                  that workers stole you illegal booze.

                                  It is funny because they all drank over there, but they were much more
                                  low-key about it and kept their "sins" out of the public eye.


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Levi Langershank" <unit_77@...>
                                  To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:26 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Just wondering


                                  > ...as opposed to many Eastern un-civilized countries where there are many
                                  > who would cut your head off for drinking alcohol or smoking a
                                  > cigarette......:>)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >From: "rodmacd2000" <rmacdoug@...>
                                  > >
                                  > >The trick is to be selective about which laws to ignore. Yes you can
                                  > >get royally screwed for growing or smoking a few dollars worth of
                                  > >weed (haven't heard any credable evidence re. those caught by
                                  > >revenoors for distilling a few jugs of booze).
                                  > >
                                  > >But work a financial/stock scam yielding multi multi millions and the
                                  > >worst you face is a mild slap on the wrist - easy to take considering
                                  > >that if you have any sense many of those millions will have been
                                  > >safely stashed where government agencies can't find them.
                                  > >
                                  > >This applies to all of our Western "civilized" countries (well maybe
                                  > >not Kiwiland) - not just the U.S.
                                  > >
                                  > >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "whynda" <hstuiber@s...> wrote:
                                  > > > Unfortunately Pop you live in a country the law takes great
                                  > >delight
                                  > > > in hounding people to the ends of the earth if it feels it has been
                                  > > > cheated. People get 30 years gaol for smoking a banned substance,
                                  > >so
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "popwahtosh" <popwahtosh@y...>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > Does anyone know what the law says about home distilling in the
                                  > >U.S.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > _________________________________________________________________
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                                • Levi Langershank
                                  Its called FREEDOM...its not perfect but it as close as its gonna get...when you decide to move to Afganistan etc,I will gladly donate towards a one-way
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Sep 2, 2004
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                                    Its called FREEDOM...its not perfect but it as close as its gonna get...when
                                    you decide to move to Afganistan etc,I will gladly donate towards a one-way
                                    ticket....you probably wont be coming back...:>)


                                    >From: "pthoma_nz" <pthoma_nz@...>

                                    >
                                    >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Levi Langershank" <unit_77@h...>
                                    >wrote:
                                    > > ...as opposed to many Eastern un-civilized countries where there
                                    >are many
                                    > > who would cut your head off for drinking alcohol or smoking a
                                    > > cigarette......:>)
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >These kind western countries are killing you just as surely by
                                    >selling you cigarettes.... and selling booze...

                                    _________________________________________________________________
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                                  • Bradley Grace
                                    But if they do, it s because of freedom, provided by us, for free, like so many others before. ... Its called FREEDOM...its not perfect but it as close as its
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Sep 2, 2004
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                                      But if they do, it's because of freedom, provided by us, for free, like so many others before.
                                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                      Its called FREEDOM...its not perfect but it as close as its gonna get...when
                                      you decide to move to Afganistan etc,I will gladly donate towards a one-way
                                      ticket....you probably wont be coming back...:>)


                                      >From: "pthoma_nz" <pthoma_nz@...>

                                      >
                                      >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Levi Langershank" <unit_77@h...>
                                      >wrote:
                                      > > ...as opposed to many Eastern un-civilized countries where there
                                      >are many
                                      > > who would cut your head off for drinking alcohol or smoking a
                                      > > cigarette......:>)
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >These kind western countries are killing you just as surely by
                                      >selling you cigarettes.... and selling booze...

                                      _________________________________________________________________
                                      Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
                                      http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




                                      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                      FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                      Yahoo! Groups Links










                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Derek Hamlet
                                      Y all can t provide freedom via military invasion. Just doesn t work. All you end up with is yet one more country that hates you. ... Derek Hamlet Victoria,
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Sep 2, 2004
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                                        Y'all can't provide freedom via military invasion.
                                        Just doesn't work. All you end up with is yet one more country that hates you.
                                        At 11:02 AM 02/09/2004, you wrote:
                                        >But if they do, it's because of freedom, provided by us, for free, like so
                                        >many others before.
                                        >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Its called FREEDOM...its not perfect but it as close as its gonna get...when
                                        >you decide to move to Afganistan etc,I will gladly donate towards a one-way
                                        >ticket....you probably wont be coming back...:>)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >From: "pthoma_nz" <pthoma_nz@...>
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Levi Langershank" <unit_77@h...>
                                        > >wrote:
                                        > > > ...as opposed to many Eastern un-civilized countries where there
                                        > >are many
                                        > > > who would cut your head off for drinking alcohol or smoking a
                                        > > > cigarette......:>)
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >These kind western countries are killing you just as surely by
                                        > >selling you cigarettes.... and selling booze...
                                        >
                                        >_________________________________________________________________
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                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >

                                        Derek Hamlet
                                        Victoria, B.C.
                                      • Kim Walker
                                        do we really need all the political rhetoric......????? I respect your views but I find it offensive here..... Kim
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Sep 2, 2004
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                                          do we really need all the political rhetoric......?????

                                          I respect your views but I find it offensive here.....

                                          Kim


                                          Derek Hamlet wrote:

                                          >Y'all can't provide freedom via military invasion.
                                          >Just doesn't work. All you end up with is yet one more country that hates you.
                                          >At 11:02 AM 02/09/2004, you wrote:
                                          > >But if they do, it's because of freedom, provided by us, for free, like so
                                          > >many others before.
                                          > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >Its called FREEDOM...its not perfect but it as close as its gonna get...when
                                          > >you decide to move to Afganistan etc,I will gladly donate towards a one-way
                                          > >ticket....you probably wont be coming back...:>)
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > >From: "pthoma_nz" <pthoma_nz@...>
                                          > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Levi Langershank" <unit_77@h...>
                                          > > >wrote:
                                          > > > > ...as opposed to many Eastern un-civilized countries where there
                                          > > >are many
                                          > > > > who would cut your head off for drinking alcohol or smoking a
                                          > > > > cigarette......:>)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >These kind western countries are killing you just as surely by
                                          > > >selling you cigarettes.... and selling booze...
                                          > >
                                          > >_________________________________________________________________
                                          > >Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
                                          > >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                          > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                          > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >Derek Hamlet
                                          >Victoria, B.C.
                                          >
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                                        • Mike Purcell
                                          Derek; Hate to say it but I don t think any country the US has gone into in the past have been real lovers of Americans. I just don;t think any more people in
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Sep 3, 2004
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                                            Derek;

                                            Hate to say it but I don't think any country the US has gone into in the
                                            past have been real lovers of Americans. I just don;t think any more people
                                            in Iraq hate the US more than before the invasion, in fact I'd say just the
                                            opposite. Don't get me wrong there is a real hatred over there from some but
                                            I think its a small minority of the people that can't see that things are
                                            gonna be better than before.

                                            Mike






                                            Quote from Derek;

                                            Y'all can't provide freedom via military invasion.

                                            Just doesn't work. All you end up with is yet one more country that hates
                                            you.


                                            --
                                            Mike Purcell
                                            <mailto:MPurcell@...> MPurcell@...
                                            Full Tilt Amusements
                                            Home of the Pinball Manuals FTP Site
                                            24.222.30.81 manual/manual




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