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Re: [Distillers] Re: First rum batch

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  • Maxime Belair
    Yes, I know but every fraction of the distillate does not smell like white rum. Is it normal? Should I let the rum breath for a couple of days at undiluted or
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 3, 2004
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      Yes, I know but every fraction of the distillate does
      not smell like white rum. Is it normal? Should I let
      the rum breath for a couple of days at undiluted or
      diluted strengh?

      ======
      The smell of the rum can change dramaticly based on
      variations of how
      you made your cuts. If you have a lot of heads, your
      wash should have
      a lot of floral smell. If you have a lot of tails, you
      should have
      fusiel oil tastes.

      __________________________________________________________
      Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
      magasinage.yahoo.ca
    • Héctor A. Landaeta C.
      ... Hola Maxime! Sorry for taking so long to get back to you but this days have been a bit hectic in this parts with the upcoming referendum to shorten
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
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        On 8/3/04 1:50 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@...> wrote:

        > Yes, I know but every fraction of the distillate does
        > not smell like white rum. Is it normal? Should I let
        > the rum breath for a couple of days at undiluted or
        > diluted strengh?

        Hola Maxime!
        Sorry for taking so long to get back to you but this days have been a bit
        hectic in this parts with the upcoming referendum to shorten Chavez¹s
        presidency having everyone (including myself) stocking up in case of any
        major disruption.
        You¹d be surprised by how little rum alcohol tastes before maturation in
        ex-bourbon barrels. Even so and keeping the line I¹ve always maintained,
        that there is no such thing as a ³neutral² spirit, with some delicacy in
        tasting you can even find some subtle molasses tones in a 40% diluted spirit
        distilled to azeotropic purity. Baker¹s yeast is not the best choice for
        obtaining subtle flavors in sprits and the acid blend addition is
        unnecessary because molasses are naturally acidic. Molasses brewing
        couldn¹t be more straightforward: just dilute it in non-chlorinated water
        to your yeast¹s max osmotic tolerance (typically 20 degrees Brix),
        pasteurize and chill this solution and thoroughly aerate it before
        inoculating it with some good wine or beer yeast strain.
        I, for one, am not too fond of molasses washes congeners (taste giving
        substances bonded to ethanol). Widespread sharing of this perception is why
        most industrial distilleries rectify molasses spirits to the azeotropic max
        (96-97%), then dilute and let age for a minimum of 2 years. I feel most of
        the taste of rum comes from the American white oak used in this barrels
        (which are stripped of the charcoal before re-assembly from the staves they
        are shipped as) and the undertones from the honey and subtle spicing added
        before sealing the barrel. In most upscale distilleries they use the
        ³mother rum² method in which they have a very old (no less than 50 years old
        and typically centenarian), specially made rum ­normally distilled from
        sugar cane juice alone-, which is heavily spiced with honey, raw molasses,
        cloves, cinnamon, nutmeg, white pepper and other ³secret² ingredients, from
        which they take very small quantities that they add to the barrel to
        ³start-up² the maturation process. If the rum is destined to be an old (5
        years or more in-barrel aging), fancy rum they add more of this ³mother
        rum², less if it¹s to be a cheapo variety.
        If you want some help on troubleshooting your too neutral rum let us know of
        more specifics like head of column temp at distillation, alc. content of
        heart cut, stil specs, etc.
        Salud!
        --
        Hector Landaeta
        Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Maxime Belair
        Hola Hector, Thank you for your reply. I just started another wash using only sugar cane molasses only. It ferments up to 8% alcohol. ===== You¹d be
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
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          Hola Hector,

          Thank you for your reply. I
          just started another wash using only sugar cane
          molasses only. It ferments up to 8% alcohol.
          =====
          You¹d be surprised by how little rum alcohol tastes
          before maturation in
          ex-bourbon barrels. Even so and keeping the line I¹ve
          always maintained,
          that there is no such thing as a ³neutral² spirit,
          with some delicacy in
          tasting you can even find some subtle molasses tones
          in a 40% diluted spirit
          distilled to azeotropic purity.
          ====
          But even the dark rums (from molasses) are distilled
          to 96% in coloumn stills???
          =====
          I guess there is more than one type of baker's yeast.
          The one I use is a S. cerevisae. If you buy brewers
          yeast it is often S. cerevisae too or it's bayanus or
          a blend. So is my yeast comparable to a brewer's
          yeast?
          =====
          If you want some help on troubleshooting your too
          neutral rum let us know of
          more specifics like head of column temp at
          distillation, alc. content of
          heart cut, stil specs, etc.
          ========
          Yes, of course I would appreciate if you could tell me
          at what % you distill your rum. Also, how much do you
          collect as foreshots, heads, heart and tails...
          ===

          My 75% alcohol rum is now on toasted oak chips, it as
          the color of a gold rum when diluted at about 40%.
          I'll let this stand for a week. 4 days at 75% and the
          3days last at 55%. I know this is pretty short for
          aging but it already makes a great difference. It
          smells like rum!

          I'll let stand the next batch for longer on oak. This
          was just a try from a 20L 8% wash.

          Maybe I'll make next batch in my column still instead
          of in my pot still.

          Oh, and one more last thing. Do you know Appleton
          Estate rum from Jamaica? I think it's made from
          molasses and it is double pot-stilled. So not all rum
          made from molasses are distilled to 96%.

          Cheers!

          Maxime Belair

          __________________________________________________________
          Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
          magasinage.yahoo.ca
        • Lindsay Williams
          ... Hola, Hector. Thanks for the info on rum making - I found it interesting, especially how rum actually gets its flavour. I have just bought a little packet
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
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            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Héctor A. Landaeta C."
            <coloniera@c...> wrote:
            > On 8/3/04 1:50 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@y...> wrote:
            >
            Hola, Hector.
            Thanks for the info on rum making - I found it interesting, especially
            how rum actually gets its flavour. I have just bought a little packet
            of rum barrel chips which I intend using as a trial. I saw a bottle in
            the brew shop that had been sitting on these chips for a week and it
            already had a very nice colour and smell. I will add a little rum
            essence, too, I think. How does this sound? Any hints would be welcome
            before I start.

            Cheers, Lindsay.
          • Héctor A. Landaeta C.
            ... -- Hector Landaeta Colonia Tovar - Venezuela. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
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              On 8/11/04 1:32 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@...> wrote:

              > Hola Hector,
              >
              > Thank you for your reply. I
              > just started another wash using only sugar cane
              > molasses only. It ferments up to 8% alcohol.
              > =====
              > You¹d be surprised by how little rum alcohol tastes
              > before maturation in
              > ex-bourbon barrels. Even so and keeping the line I¹ve
              > always maintained,
              > that there is no such thing as a ³neutral² spirit,
              > with some delicacy in
              > tasting you can even find some subtle molasses tones
              > in a 40% diluted spirit
              > distilled to azeotropic purity.
              > ====
              > But even the dark rums (from molasses) are distilled
              > to 96% in coloumn stills???
              >
              > Yes Max. Color comes from oak on one hand and caramel coloring on the other.
              > I haven¹t seen the first distilled product that has any color in it coming out
              > of the condenser.
              > =====
              > I guess there is more than one type of baker's yeast.
              > The one I use is a S. cerevisae. If you buy brewers
              > yeast it is often S. cerevisae too or it's bayanus or
              > a blend. So is my yeast comparable to a brewer's
              > yeast?
              >
              > Yes again. Taxonomic names typically have three components, the family, the
              > genus and the proper name or sub-genus. There¹s a large number (thirty
              > something I think I remember) of sub-spices of cerevisae. Some are good for
              > brewing and some are good for baking, and some still can wear both hats but
              > without doing too an outstanding work.
              >
              > =====
              > If you want some help on troubleshooting your too
              > neutral rum let us know of
              > more specifics like head of column temp at
              > distillation, alc. content of
              > heart cut, stil specs, etc.
              > ========
              > Yes, of course I would appreciate if you could tell me
              > at what % you distill your rum. Also, how much do you
              > collect as foreshots, heads, heart and tails...
              >
              > To my still¹s max @ 96.8% ABV. I do a continuous stripping run at a median
              > column head temp of 85º C (200 liter batches, typically. Sometimes 480
              > liters), a rectifying run to cut out heads mostly, because tails will be taken
              > care of on subsequent runs, and two more rectifying runs to get to the mid
              > 90¹s. On my 90 liter fill capacity still I take out aprox. 200-250 ml of
              > heads (heads and foreshots blend because of my firebox condenser¹s design) on
              > the first rectifying run and sometimes 50-75 additional cc¹s on the second.
              > Tails are left in the boiler since I cut off as soon as I hit the 92º C mark
              > in the first rectifying run.
              >
              > ===
              >
              > My 75% alcohol rum is now on toasted oak chips, it as
              > the color of a gold rum when diluted at about 40%.
              > I'll let this stand for a week. 4 days at 75% and the
              > 3days last at 55%. I know this is pretty short for
              > aging but it already makes a great difference. It
              > smells like rum!
              >
              > I'll let stand the next batch for longer on oak. This
              > was just a try from a 20L 8% wash.
              >
              > Maybe I'll make next batch in my column still instead
              > of in my pot still.
              >
              > Oh, and one more last thing. Do you know Appleton
              > Estate rum from Jamaica? I think it's made from
              > molasses and it is double pot-stilled. So not all rum
              > made from molasses are distilled to 96%.
              >
              > So? I could do that also if my column was higher, and my still is a
              > convertible pot still. Yes, I know Appleton and compared to some stuff we
              > make around here it¹s rather shabby and flat tasting. Get your hands on some
              > good Venezuelan Rum pal! Try if you can some Cacique Milenium or the more
              > commercial 500, or better yet some Santa Teresa 1796. Cheaper than the
              > Appleton and at least double the quality you can try some El Muco from
              > Carúpano.
              > Salud!
              --
              Hector Landaeta
              Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.

              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Héctor A. Landaeta C.
              ... Hola Lindsay! Remember it¹s just the same oak as in aging scotch whiskey. They use EXACTLY the same ex-bourbon barrels. There is this big business
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
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                On 8/11/04 4:17 PM, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@...> wrote:

                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Héctor A. Landaeta C."
                > <coloniera@c...> wrote:
                >> > On 8/3/04 1:50 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@y...> wrote:
                >> >
                > Hola, Hector.
                > Thanks for the info on rum making - I found it interesting, especially
                > how rum actually gets its flavour. I have just bought a little packet
                > of rum barrel chips which I intend using as a trial. I saw a bottle in
                > the brew shop that had been sitting on these chips for a week and it
                > already had a very nice colour and smell. I will add a little rum
                > essence, too, I think. How does this sound? Any hints would be welcome
                > before I start.

                Hola Lindsay!
                Remember it¹s just the same oak as in aging scotch whiskey. They use
                EXACTLY the same ex-bourbon barrels. There is this big business around
                bourbon distilleries that disasemble, tie-up each barrel in the same bunch
                so as to facilitate re-assembly, ship it in large containers and get a nice
                revenue, mostly from proverbially cheap Scots but rum, Jerez, brandy and
                even wine makers all around the globe chip in too. Try and make your own
                rum essence! It¹s mostly a pinch of ³tropical² tasting spices, some honey
                and oak essence.
                Salud!
                --
                Hector Landaeta
                Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lindsay Williams
                Thanks, Hector, for the extra info. Cheesrs, Lindsay. ... bunch ... a nice ... your own ... honey
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
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                  Thanks, Hector, for the extra info.

                  Cheesrs, Lindsay.

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Héctor A. Landaeta C."
                  <coloniera@c...> wrote:
                  > On 8/11/04 4:17 PM, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Héctor A. Landaeta C."
                  > > <coloniera@c...> wrote:
                  > >> > On 8/3/04 1:50 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@y...> wrote:
                  > >> >
                  > > Hola, Hector.
                  > > Thanks for the info on rum making - I found it interesting, especially
                  > > how rum actually gets its flavour. I have just bought a little packet
                  > > of rum barrel chips which I intend using as a trial. I saw a bottle in
                  > > the brew shop that had been sitting on these chips for a week and it
                  > > already had a very nice colour and smell. I will add a little rum
                  > > essence, too, I think. How does this sound? Any hints would be welcome
                  > > before I start.
                  >
                  > Hola Lindsay!
                  > Remember it¹s just the same oak as in aging scotch whiskey. They use
                  > EXACTLY the same ex-bourbon barrels. There is this big business around
                  > bourbon distilleries that disasemble, tie-up each barrel in the same
                  bunch
                  > so as to facilitate re-assembly, ship it in large containers and get
                  a nice
                  > revenue, mostly from proverbially cheap Scots but rum, Jerez, brandy and
                  > even wine makers all around the globe chip in too. Try and make
                  your own
                  > rum essence! It¹s mostly a pinch of ³tropical² tasting spices, some
                  honey
                  > and oak essence.
                  > Salud!
                  > --
                  > Hector Landaeta
                  > Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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