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Re: First rum batch

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  • yttrium_nitrate
    The smell of the rum can change dramaticly based on variations of how you made your cuts. If you have a lot of heads, your wash should have a lot of floral
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 3, 2004
      The smell of the rum can change dramaticly based on variations of how
      you made your cuts. If you have a lot of heads, your wash should have
      a lot of floral smell. If you have a lot of tails, you should have
      fusiel oil tastes.

      In general, aging improves the smell and taste.

      > Hello everyone,
      >
      > I just double pot-stilled a
      > 8% rum wash I made from 4kg fancy molasses in 20L
      > water + 12gr Fleishmann's baker's yeast ( S.
      > cerevisae) . Surprisingly, it doesn't smell like
      > white rum at all. I was aking me if this will fix on
      > it's own with a couple of days of breathing.
      >
      > Thanks for any advices,
      >
      > Max Belair
    • Maxime Belair
      Yes, I know but every fraction of the distillate does not smell like white rum. Is it normal? Should I let the rum breath for a couple of days at undiluted or
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 3, 2004
        Yes, I know but every fraction of the distillate does
        not smell like white rum. Is it normal? Should I let
        the rum breath for a couple of days at undiluted or
        diluted strengh?

        ======
        The smell of the rum can change dramaticly based on
        variations of how
        you made your cuts. If you have a lot of heads, your
        wash should have
        a lot of floral smell. If you have a lot of tails, you
        should have
        fusiel oil tastes.

        __________________________________________________________
        Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
        magasinage.yahoo.ca
      • Héctor A. Landaeta C.
        ... Hola Maxime! Sorry for taking so long to get back to you but this days have been a bit hectic in this parts with the upcoming referendum to shorten
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
          On 8/3/04 1:50 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@...> wrote:

          > Yes, I know but every fraction of the distillate does
          > not smell like white rum. Is it normal? Should I let
          > the rum breath for a couple of days at undiluted or
          > diluted strengh?

          Hola Maxime!
          Sorry for taking so long to get back to you but this days have been a bit
          hectic in this parts with the upcoming referendum to shorten Chavez¹s
          presidency having everyone (including myself) stocking up in case of any
          major disruption.
          You¹d be surprised by how little rum alcohol tastes before maturation in
          ex-bourbon barrels. Even so and keeping the line I¹ve always maintained,
          that there is no such thing as a ³neutral² spirit, with some delicacy in
          tasting you can even find some subtle molasses tones in a 40% diluted spirit
          distilled to azeotropic purity. Baker¹s yeast is not the best choice for
          obtaining subtle flavors in sprits and the acid blend addition is
          unnecessary because molasses are naturally acidic. Molasses brewing
          couldn¹t be more straightforward: just dilute it in non-chlorinated water
          to your yeast¹s max osmotic tolerance (typically 20 degrees Brix),
          pasteurize and chill this solution and thoroughly aerate it before
          inoculating it with some good wine or beer yeast strain.
          I, for one, am not too fond of molasses washes congeners (taste giving
          substances bonded to ethanol). Widespread sharing of this perception is why
          most industrial distilleries rectify molasses spirits to the azeotropic max
          (96-97%), then dilute and let age for a minimum of 2 years. I feel most of
          the taste of rum comes from the American white oak used in this barrels
          (which are stripped of the charcoal before re-assembly from the staves they
          are shipped as) and the undertones from the honey and subtle spicing added
          before sealing the barrel. In most upscale distilleries they use the
          ³mother rum² method in which they have a very old (no less than 50 years old
          and typically centenarian), specially made rum ­normally distilled from
          sugar cane juice alone-, which is heavily spiced with honey, raw molasses,
          cloves, cinnamon, nutmeg, white pepper and other ³secret² ingredients, from
          which they take very small quantities that they add to the barrel to
          ³start-up² the maturation process. If the rum is destined to be an old (5
          years or more in-barrel aging), fancy rum they add more of this ³mother
          rum², less if it¹s to be a cheapo variety.
          If you want some help on troubleshooting your too neutral rum let us know of
          more specifics like head of column temp at distillation, alc. content of
          heart cut, stil specs, etc.
          Salud!
          --
          Hector Landaeta
          Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Maxime Belair
          Hola Hector, Thank you for your reply. I just started another wash using only sugar cane molasses only. It ferments up to 8% alcohol. ===== You¹d be
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
            Hola Hector,

            Thank you for your reply. I
            just started another wash using only sugar cane
            molasses only. It ferments up to 8% alcohol.
            =====
            You¹d be surprised by how little rum alcohol tastes
            before maturation in
            ex-bourbon barrels. Even so and keeping the line I¹ve
            always maintained,
            that there is no such thing as a ³neutral² spirit,
            with some delicacy in
            tasting you can even find some subtle molasses tones
            in a 40% diluted spirit
            distilled to azeotropic purity.
            ====
            But even the dark rums (from molasses) are distilled
            to 96% in coloumn stills???
            =====
            I guess there is more than one type of baker's yeast.
            The one I use is a S. cerevisae. If you buy brewers
            yeast it is often S. cerevisae too or it's bayanus or
            a blend. So is my yeast comparable to a brewer's
            yeast?
            =====
            If you want some help on troubleshooting your too
            neutral rum let us know of
            more specifics like head of column temp at
            distillation, alc. content of
            heart cut, stil specs, etc.
            ========
            Yes, of course I would appreciate if you could tell me
            at what % you distill your rum. Also, how much do you
            collect as foreshots, heads, heart and tails...
            ===

            My 75% alcohol rum is now on toasted oak chips, it as
            the color of a gold rum when diluted at about 40%.
            I'll let this stand for a week. 4 days at 75% and the
            3days last at 55%. I know this is pretty short for
            aging but it already makes a great difference. It
            smells like rum!

            I'll let stand the next batch for longer on oak. This
            was just a try from a 20L 8% wash.

            Maybe I'll make next batch in my column still instead
            of in my pot still.

            Oh, and one more last thing. Do you know Appleton
            Estate rum from Jamaica? I think it's made from
            molasses and it is double pot-stilled. So not all rum
            made from molasses are distilled to 96%.

            Cheers!

            Maxime Belair

            __________________________________________________________
            Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
            magasinage.yahoo.ca
          • Lindsay Williams
            ... Hola, Hector. Thanks for the info on rum making - I found it interesting, especially how rum actually gets its flavour. I have just bought a little packet
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Héctor A. Landaeta C."
              <coloniera@c...> wrote:
              > On 8/3/04 1:50 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@y...> wrote:
              >
              Hola, Hector.
              Thanks for the info on rum making - I found it interesting, especially
              how rum actually gets its flavour. I have just bought a little packet
              of rum barrel chips which I intend using as a trial. I saw a bottle in
              the brew shop that had been sitting on these chips for a week and it
              already had a very nice colour and smell. I will add a little rum
              essence, too, I think. How does this sound? Any hints would be welcome
              before I start.

              Cheers, Lindsay.
            • Héctor A. Landaeta C.
              ... -- Hector Landaeta Colonia Tovar - Venezuela. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
                On 8/11/04 1:32 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@...> wrote:

                > Hola Hector,
                >
                > Thank you for your reply. I
                > just started another wash using only sugar cane
                > molasses only. It ferments up to 8% alcohol.
                > =====
                > You¹d be surprised by how little rum alcohol tastes
                > before maturation in
                > ex-bourbon barrels. Even so and keeping the line I¹ve
                > always maintained,
                > that there is no such thing as a ³neutral² spirit,
                > with some delicacy in
                > tasting you can even find some subtle molasses tones
                > in a 40% diluted spirit
                > distilled to azeotropic purity.
                > ====
                > But even the dark rums (from molasses) are distilled
                > to 96% in coloumn stills???
                >
                > Yes Max. Color comes from oak on one hand and caramel coloring on the other.
                > I haven¹t seen the first distilled product that has any color in it coming out
                > of the condenser.
                > =====
                > I guess there is more than one type of baker's yeast.
                > The one I use is a S. cerevisae. If you buy brewers
                > yeast it is often S. cerevisae too or it's bayanus or
                > a blend. So is my yeast comparable to a brewer's
                > yeast?
                >
                > Yes again. Taxonomic names typically have three components, the family, the
                > genus and the proper name or sub-genus. There¹s a large number (thirty
                > something I think I remember) of sub-spices of cerevisae. Some are good for
                > brewing and some are good for baking, and some still can wear both hats but
                > without doing too an outstanding work.
                >
                > =====
                > If you want some help on troubleshooting your too
                > neutral rum let us know of
                > more specifics like head of column temp at
                > distillation, alc. content of
                > heart cut, stil specs, etc.
                > ========
                > Yes, of course I would appreciate if you could tell me
                > at what % you distill your rum. Also, how much do you
                > collect as foreshots, heads, heart and tails...
                >
                > To my still¹s max @ 96.8% ABV. I do a continuous stripping run at a median
                > column head temp of 85º C (200 liter batches, typically. Sometimes 480
                > liters), a rectifying run to cut out heads mostly, because tails will be taken
                > care of on subsequent runs, and two more rectifying runs to get to the mid
                > 90¹s. On my 90 liter fill capacity still I take out aprox. 200-250 ml of
                > heads (heads and foreshots blend because of my firebox condenser¹s design) on
                > the first rectifying run and sometimes 50-75 additional cc¹s on the second.
                > Tails are left in the boiler since I cut off as soon as I hit the 92º C mark
                > in the first rectifying run.
                >
                > ===
                >
                > My 75% alcohol rum is now on toasted oak chips, it as
                > the color of a gold rum when diluted at about 40%.
                > I'll let this stand for a week. 4 days at 75% and the
                > 3days last at 55%. I know this is pretty short for
                > aging but it already makes a great difference. It
                > smells like rum!
                >
                > I'll let stand the next batch for longer on oak. This
                > was just a try from a 20L 8% wash.
                >
                > Maybe I'll make next batch in my column still instead
                > of in my pot still.
                >
                > Oh, and one more last thing. Do you know Appleton
                > Estate rum from Jamaica? I think it's made from
                > molasses and it is double pot-stilled. So not all rum
                > made from molasses are distilled to 96%.
                >
                > So? I could do that also if my column was higher, and my still is a
                > convertible pot still. Yes, I know Appleton and compared to some stuff we
                > make around here it¹s rather shabby and flat tasting. Get your hands on some
                > good Venezuelan Rum pal! Try if you can some Cacique Milenium or the more
                > commercial 500, or better yet some Santa Teresa 1796. Cheaper than the
                > Appleton and at least double the quality you can try some El Muco from
                > Carúpano.
                > Salud!
                --
                Hector Landaeta
                Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.

                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Héctor A. Landaeta C.
                ... Hola Lindsay! Remember it¹s just the same oak as in aging scotch whiskey. They use EXACTLY the same ex-bourbon barrels. There is this big business
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
                  On 8/11/04 4:17 PM, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@...> wrote:

                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Héctor A. Landaeta C."
                  > <coloniera@c...> wrote:
                  >> > On 8/3/04 1:50 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@y...> wrote:
                  >> >
                  > Hola, Hector.
                  > Thanks for the info on rum making - I found it interesting, especially
                  > how rum actually gets its flavour. I have just bought a little packet
                  > of rum barrel chips which I intend using as a trial. I saw a bottle in
                  > the brew shop that had been sitting on these chips for a week and it
                  > already had a very nice colour and smell. I will add a little rum
                  > essence, too, I think. How does this sound? Any hints would be welcome
                  > before I start.

                  Hola Lindsay!
                  Remember it¹s just the same oak as in aging scotch whiskey. They use
                  EXACTLY the same ex-bourbon barrels. There is this big business around
                  bourbon distilleries that disasemble, tie-up each barrel in the same bunch
                  so as to facilitate re-assembly, ship it in large containers and get a nice
                  revenue, mostly from proverbially cheap Scots but rum, Jerez, brandy and
                  even wine makers all around the globe chip in too. Try and make your own
                  rum essence! It¹s mostly a pinch of ³tropical² tasting spices, some honey
                  and oak essence.
                  Salud!
                  --
                  Hector Landaeta
                  Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Lindsay Williams
                  Thanks, Hector, for the extra info. Cheesrs, Lindsay. ... bunch ... a nice ... your own ... honey
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 11, 2004
                    Thanks, Hector, for the extra info.

                    Cheesrs, Lindsay.

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Héctor A. Landaeta C."
                    <coloniera@c...> wrote:
                    > On 8/11/04 4:17 PM, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Héctor A. Landaeta C."
                    > > <coloniera@c...> wrote:
                    > >> > On 8/3/04 1:50 PM, "Maxime Belair" <maxime_belair@y...> wrote:
                    > >> >
                    > > Hola, Hector.
                    > > Thanks for the info on rum making - I found it interesting, especially
                    > > how rum actually gets its flavour. I have just bought a little packet
                    > > of rum barrel chips which I intend using as a trial. I saw a bottle in
                    > > the brew shop that had been sitting on these chips for a week and it
                    > > already had a very nice colour and smell. I will add a little rum
                    > > essence, too, I think. How does this sound? Any hints would be welcome
                    > > before I start.
                    >
                    > Hola Lindsay!
                    > Remember it¹s just the same oak as in aging scotch whiskey. They use
                    > EXACTLY the same ex-bourbon barrels. There is this big business around
                    > bourbon distilleries that disasemble, tie-up each barrel in the same
                    bunch
                    > so as to facilitate re-assembly, ship it in large containers and get
                    a nice
                    > revenue, mostly from proverbially cheap Scots but rum, Jerez, brandy and
                    > even wine makers all around the globe chip in too. Try and make
                    your own
                    > rum essence! It¹s mostly a pinch of ³tropical² tasting spices, some
                    honey
                    > and oak essence.
                    > Salud!
                    > --
                    > Hector Landaeta
                    > Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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