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Re: [Distillers] Re: first batch o' scotch

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  • Maxime Belair
    Hi, I m very surprised that blended scotch is diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home might be twice less expensive than I though if a ratio of
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
      Hi,

      I'm very surprised that blended scotch is
      diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home
      might be twice less expensive than I though if a ratio
      of 70neutral/30whisky gives enough flavour.

      But when you buy a bottle of single malt, is it
      diluted with some neutral alcohol?

      Is it the same for bourbon, irish whisky, rhum,
      cognac, brandy...?

      Thank you,

      Maxime Belair


      __________________________________________________________
      Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
      magasinage.yahoo.ca
    • Maxime Belair
      Hi again, I forgot to talk about these neutral grain alcohol they use for the blend. If this neutral grain alcohol is made from barley, it means that
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
        Hi again,

        I forgot to talk about these "neutral
        grain alcohol" they use for the blend. If this
        "neutral grain alcohol" is made from barley, it means
        that there is some spent flavour? This because they
        don't take the tails, they only take the clean middle
        run.

        Right?

        Maxime Belair

        ---------------------------------
        Hi,

        I'm very surprised that blended scotch is
        diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home
        might be twice less expensive than I though if a ratio
        of 70neutral/30whisky gives enough flavour.

        But when you buy a bottle of single malt, is it
        diluted with some neutral alcohol?

        Is it the same for bourbon, irish whisky, rhum,
        cognac, brandy...?

        Thank you,

        Maxime Belair


        __________________________________________________________
        Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
        magasinage.yahoo.ca


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      • yttrium_nitrate
        A lot of scotch whisky is aged in barrels that have been used to age sherry. If you add a wee bit of sherry to the whisky, it can simulate part of aging in
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
          A lot of scotch whisky is aged in barrels that have been used to age
          sherry. If you add a wee bit of sherry to the whisky, it can simulate
          part of aging in used barrel.

          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "closetdistiller"
          > <closetdistiller@y...> wrote:
          > > Sorry Harry, I'm having a bit of trouble following this so lets
          > see
          > > if I understand.
          > >
          > > When you say you mix in a ratio of say 70 neutral: 30 single malt
          > > whiskey, you then just dilute that blend out to your ~40% final
          > > drinking level with water? What sort of %ABV would you be looking
          > at
          > > for the 70 spirit (I'm guessing 95% here) and the 30 whiskey (75%
          > > here)?
          > >
          > > Hmmm, I don't know if I'm explaining this very well here. Ok. So
          > to
          > > make your final product would you be adding say 700mls of 40%
          > > neutral to 300ml of 40% whiskey, or would you be adding say 7
          > parts
          > > of 95% neutral to 3 parts 75% whiskey, then diluting this out to
          > > your 40% drinking strength? (If my brain was working today I could
          > > probably work out if this is exactly the same ;) )
          > >
          > > Basically I'm a bit confused, would you mind explaining this a bit
          > > better. I'm planning to do a whiskey very soon and I was going to
          > do
          > > it as gatesbox did, I think I may have been surprised by the
          > > intensity and strength of the flavour. ;)
          > >
          > > Thanks, much appreciated.
          >
          >
          > CD, look at it this way. The single malt whiskies that make up the
          > base of a blended Scotch, are all drawn at 'cask strength' i.e. 53-
          > 55% abv. So is the 'neutral' grain whisky. Remember it's watered
          > down to 65% before barrelling and aging. Remember also that the age
          > of a blend, as stated on the label, is the age of the 'youngest'
          > whisky in the blend. This includes the grain whisky.
          >
          > So the 35 or 40 malts are mixed together i.e. 'vatted', and the
          > resulting overall abv is about ~53%. No water has yet been added.
          >
          > Now you add to this the aged grain alcohol (53-55%) in the ratio
          > 70:30, grain whisky to single malt blends, BY VOLUME. THIS you cut
          > to your drinking strength with water. Personally I prefer 43% final
          > abv but most commercial blended scotches are 40%.
          >
          > Blending and diluting is the last act that the master distiller
          > performs on the malts and grain whiskies. The resultant scotch
          > whisky blend is then 'married' for about 6 months in old used casks
          > (no additional flavour or colours) and then bottled.
          >
          > In the home distilling environment, I find that the aging
          > and 'marriage' can be speeded up by judicious use of an aeration
          > system. See my previous posts #22159, #22161.
          >
          > HTH
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
        • Zarklan Zhaphedoix
          I went to the Scotch Heritage Museum in Edinburgh Scotland and saw that the blended scotch was blended from Pot Still Products and Coffee Still products. The
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
            I went to the Scotch Heritage Museum in Edinburgh
            Scotland and saw that the blended scotch was blended
            from Pot Still Products and Coffee Still products.

            The tourguide, an American, gave the impression that
            the blended scotch was essentially good scotch cut
            with industrial type alcohol.


            --- Maxime Belair <maxime_belair@...> wrote:

            > Hi,
            >
            > I'm very surprised that blended scotch is
            > diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home
            > might be twice less expensive than I though if a
            > ratio
            > of 70neutral/30whisky gives enough flavour.
            >
            > But when you buy a bottle of single malt, is it
            > diluted with some neutral alcohol?
            >
            > Is it the same for bourbon, irish whisky, rhum,
            > cognac, brandy...?
            >
            > Thank you,
            >
            > Maxime Belair
            >
            >
            >
            __________________________________________________________
            > L�che-vitrine ou l�che-�cran ?
            > magasinage.yahoo.ca
            >


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          • Harry
            ... age ... simulate ... There s no doubt that a wee splash of sherry in your home-made poteen will give it a lift. However there s some debate about
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "yttrium_nitrate" <incatare@h...>
              wrote:
              > A lot of scotch whisky is aged in barrels that have been used to
              age
              > sherry. If you add a wee bit of sherry to the whisky, it can
              simulate
              > part of aging in used barrel.



              There's no doubt that a wee 'splash' of sherry in your home-made
              poteen will give it a lift. However there's some debate about
              whether sherry barrels (specifically Oloroso sherry) from Spain
              actually do anything for the profile.

              Some sources say that the barrels are imported into
              Scotland 'complete' with a half litre of sherry still in the cask.
              Other sources say the barrels are broken down into staves for
              transportation, and re-cut and reassembled by the coopers when they
              take delivery.

              As to the 'sherried' finish that scotch whisky afficionados speak
              of, this post on Riannon's Celtic Malts forum is interesting...

              <quote>
              American oak and European oak have a significantly different impact
              on maturing whiskies.

              Much of what is commonly called a 'sherry' flavour actually derives
              not from a cask's former content, but from the European oak effect.
              I have tasted samples from European oak casks that had previously
              held no sherry or other fortified wines, yet the whisky had very
              obvious 'sherried' characteristics.
              </quote>
              (Source:
              http://www.celticmalts.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25
              the last post on that page.

              Slainte!
              regards Harry
            • Harry
              ... all the whisky was distilled at the same distillery, and is not combined with grain whisky. ... Max, you need a crash course in Scotch. :-)
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Maxime Belair
                <maxime_belair@y...> wrote:
                > Hi again,
                >
                > I forgot to talk about these "neutral
                > grain alcohol" they use for the blend. If this
                > "neutral grain alcohol" is made from barley, it means
                > that there is some spent flavour? This because they
                > don't take the tails, they only take the clean middle
                > run.
                >
                > Right?
                >
                > Maxime Belair
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Hi,
                >
                > I'm very surprised that blended scotch is
                > diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home
                > might be twice less expensive than I though if a ratio
                > of 70neutral/30whisky gives enough flavour.
                >
                > But when you buy a bottle of single malt, is it
                > diluted with some neutral alcohol?

                >>>>>>>>>>>>> No. A Single Malt Scotch is an unblended Malt Whisky;
                all the whisky was distilled at the same distillery, and is not
                combined with grain whisky.
                >>>>>>>>>>>>>

                > Is it the same for bourbon, irish whisky, rhum,
                > cognac, brandy...?

                >>>>>>>>>>> No, níl, no mon, non.
                >>>>>>>>>>>


                > Thank you,
                >
                > Maxime Belair


                Max, you need a crash course in Scotch. :-)

                http://0url.com/www.whiskyweb.com-R

                http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Scotch_whisky

                HTH
                Slainte!
                regards Harry
              • yttrium_nitrate
                It seems like it would be expensive to break apart a barrel and then reassemble it. Something that would not appeal to scotish sensibilities. I agree that the
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
                  It seems like it would be expensive to break apart a barrel and then
                  reassemble it. Something that would not appeal to scotish
                  sensibilities. I agree that the oak can have a tremendous inpact on
                  the flavor, but American/European oak is not the only variabile when
                  it comes to oak. The age of the tree, the location of the tree, and
                  the part of the tree that is used to make the barrel all have an
                  impact on the final taste. The time of year that tree was cut down may
                  even change the flavor.

                  > There's no doubt that a wee 'splash' of sherry in your home-made
                  > poteen will give it a lift. However there's some debate about
                  > whether sherry barrels (specifically Oloroso sherry) from Spain
                  > actually do anything for the profile.
                  >
                  > Some sources say that the barrels are imported into
                  > Scotland 'complete' with a half litre of sherry still in the cask.
                  > Other sources say the barrels are broken down into staves for
                  > transportation, and re-cut and reassembled by the coopers when they
                  > take delivery.
                  >
                  > As to the 'sherried' finish that scotch whisky afficionados speak
                  > of, this post on Riannon's Celtic Malts forum is interesting...
                  >
                  > <quote>
                  > American oak and European oak have a significantly different impact
                  > on maturing whiskies.
                  >
                  > Much of what is commonly called a 'sherry' flavour actually derives
                  > not from a cask's former content, but from the European oak effect.
                  > I have tasted samples from European oak casks that had previously
                  > held no sherry or other fortified wines, yet the whisky had very
                  > obvious 'sherried' characteristics.
                  > </quote>
                  > (Source:
                  > http://www.celticmalts.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25
                  > the last post on that page.
                  >
                  > Slainte!
                  > regards Harry
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