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Re: first batch o' scotch

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  • closetdistiller
    Sorry Harry, I m having a bit of trouble following this so lets see if I understand. When you say you mix in a ratio of say 70 neutral: 30 single malt whiskey,
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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      Sorry Harry, I'm having a bit of trouble following this so lets see
      if I understand.

      When you say you mix in a ratio of say 70 neutral: 30 single malt
      whiskey, you then just dilute that blend out to your ~40% final
      drinking level with water? What sort of %ABV would you be looking at
      for the 70 spirit (I'm guessing 95% here) and the 30 whiskey (75%
      here)?

      Hmmm, I don't know if I'm explaining this very well here. Ok. So to
      make your final product would you be adding say 700mls of 40%
      neutral to 300ml of 40% whiskey, or would you be adding say 7 parts
      of 95% neutral to 3 parts 75% whiskey, then diluting this out to
      your 40% drinking strength? (If my brain was working today I could
      probably work out if this is exactly the same ;) )

      Basically I'm a bit confused, would you mind explaining this a bit
      better. I'm planning to do a whiskey very soon and I was going to do
      it as gatesbox did, I think I may have been surprised by the
      intensity and strength of the flavour. ;)

      Thanks, much appreciated.

      CD

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
      wrote:
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gatesbox" <gatesbox@y...>
      wrote:
      > > Hello all,
      > >
      > > I have not kept up with posts since I started working for a gov.
      > > contractor. I am a little paranoid that big brother is lurking
      > over
      > > my office computer. Following are results and questions on my
      > first
      > > batch o' scotch.
      > >
      > > I made a 6 gal liquid mash using 12lbs of extract and steaping
      > over
      > > a half pound of peat smoked malt (a little too much I think?).
      I
      > > stripped to an average of 45% and did a spirit run at about 75
      to
      > > 85%. Scaling down to this small batch I used the run results
      from
      > > smiley's book I decided to keep just under 2L which when diluted
      > > left me with under 3L at 45%. I set aside 300ml 75% for the next
      > > run. I liked the fragrance but a bit strong on the peat smoke.
      I
      > > threw in a couple of oak steeping bags from the homebrew shop.
      > The
      > > next day I pulled one out as it seemed the color was darkening a
      > bit
      > > too fast. I liked the suggestion to add a few pepper corns to
      > > bourbon so I threw a couple in this batch to age on and spice it
      > up
      > > a bit.
      > >
      > > My question is: Any suggestions on other finishing touches to
      add
      > to
      > > the flavor and appeal? Any input on the next run? I plan on
      > > repeating this method with another 5-6 gal batch.
      >
      >
      >
      > Scotch, as most people drink it, is actually 'Blended Scotch', a
      > blend of single malts and grain alcohol. The single malts (about
      35
      > or 40 of them) are blended together to form the base. The base
      > makes up around 30-35% of the finished blend, the other 65-70% is
      > grain alcohol (mostly barley, but sometimes corn and/or wheat).
      >
      > What you have is 'technically' single malt whisky (not Scotch).
      > From here you've got a couple of choices:
      > 1) Get used to the heavy peat taste
      > 2) Make your next batch a neutral spirit and blend with the
      peated
      > batch @ 70:30 ratio.
      >
      > You can use your extract, or if you think there's already
      > enough 'malty' flavour in the first batch, use Dextrose (it's
      grain
      > based glucose).
      >
      > HTH
      > Slainte!
      > regards Harry
    • Harry
      ... see ... at ... to ... parts ... do ... CD, look at it this way. The single malt whiskies that make up the base of a blended Scotch, are all drawn at cask
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "closetdistiller"
        <closetdistiller@y...> wrote:
        > Sorry Harry, I'm having a bit of trouble following this so lets
        see
        > if I understand.
        >
        > When you say you mix in a ratio of say 70 neutral: 30 single malt
        > whiskey, you then just dilute that blend out to your ~40% final
        > drinking level with water? What sort of %ABV would you be looking
        at
        > for the 70 spirit (I'm guessing 95% here) and the 30 whiskey (75%
        > here)?
        >
        > Hmmm, I don't know if I'm explaining this very well here. Ok. So
        to
        > make your final product would you be adding say 700mls of 40%
        > neutral to 300ml of 40% whiskey, or would you be adding say 7
        parts
        > of 95% neutral to 3 parts 75% whiskey, then diluting this out to
        > your 40% drinking strength? (If my brain was working today I could
        > probably work out if this is exactly the same ;) )
        >
        > Basically I'm a bit confused, would you mind explaining this a bit
        > better. I'm planning to do a whiskey very soon and I was going to
        do
        > it as gatesbox did, I think I may have been surprised by the
        > intensity and strength of the flavour. ;)
        >
        > Thanks, much appreciated.


        CD, look at it this way. The single malt whiskies that make up the
        base of a blended Scotch, are all drawn at 'cask strength' i.e. 53-
        55% abv. So is the 'neutral' grain whisky. Remember it's watered
        down to 65% before barrelling and aging. Remember also that the age
        of a blend, as stated on the label, is the age of the 'youngest'
        whisky in the blend. This includes the grain whisky.

        So the 35 or 40 malts are mixed together i.e. 'vatted', and the
        resulting overall abv is about ~53%. No water has yet been added.

        Now you add to this the aged grain alcohol (53-55%) in the ratio
        70:30, grain whisky to single malt blends, BY VOLUME. THIS you cut
        to your drinking strength with water. Personally I prefer 43% final
        abv but most commercial blended scotches are 40%.

        Blending and diluting is the last act that the master distiller
        performs on the malts and grain whiskies. The resultant scotch
        whisky blend is then 'married' for about 6 months in old used casks
        (no additional flavour or colours) and then bottled.

        In the home distilling environment, I find that the aging
        and 'marriage' can be speeded up by judicious use of an aeration
        system. See my previous posts #22159, #22161.

        HTH
        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • Maxime Belair
        Hi, I m very surprised that blended scotch is diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home might be twice less expensive than I though if a ratio of
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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          Hi,

          I'm very surprised that blended scotch is
          diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home
          might be twice less expensive than I though if a ratio
          of 70neutral/30whisky gives enough flavour.

          But when you buy a bottle of single malt, is it
          diluted with some neutral alcohol?

          Is it the same for bourbon, irish whisky, rhum,
          cognac, brandy...?

          Thank you,

          Maxime Belair


          __________________________________________________________
          Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
          magasinage.yahoo.ca
        • Maxime Belair
          Hi again, I forgot to talk about these neutral grain alcohol they use for the blend. If this neutral grain alcohol is made from barley, it means that
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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            Hi again,

            I forgot to talk about these "neutral
            grain alcohol" they use for the blend. If this
            "neutral grain alcohol" is made from barley, it means
            that there is some spent flavour? This because they
            don't take the tails, they only take the clean middle
            run.

            Right?

            Maxime Belair

            ---------------------------------
            Hi,

            I'm very surprised that blended scotch is
            diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home
            might be twice less expensive than I though if a ratio
            of 70neutral/30whisky gives enough flavour.

            But when you buy a bottle of single malt, is it
            diluted with some neutral alcohol?

            Is it the same for bourbon, irish whisky, rhum,
            cognac, brandy...?

            Thank you,

            Maxime Belair


            __________________________________________________________
            Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
            magasinage.yahoo.ca


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          • yttrium_nitrate
            A lot of scotch whisky is aged in barrels that have been used to age sherry. If you add a wee bit of sherry to the whisky, it can simulate part of aging in
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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              A lot of scotch whisky is aged in barrels that have been used to age
              sherry. If you add a wee bit of sherry to the whisky, it can simulate
              part of aging in used barrel.

              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "closetdistiller"
              > <closetdistiller@y...> wrote:
              > > Sorry Harry, I'm having a bit of trouble following this so lets
              > see
              > > if I understand.
              > >
              > > When you say you mix in a ratio of say 70 neutral: 30 single malt
              > > whiskey, you then just dilute that blend out to your ~40% final
              > > drinking level with water? What sort of %ABV would you be looking
              > at
              > > for the 70 spirit (I'm guessing 95% here) and the 30 whiskey (75%
              > > here)?
              > >
              > > Hmmm, I don't know if I'm explaining this very well here. Ok. So
              > to
              > > make your final product would you be adding say 700mls of 40%
              > > neutral to 300ml of 40% whiskey, or would you be adding say 7
              > parts
              > > of 95% neutral to 3 parts 75% whiskey, then diluting this out to
              > > your 40% drinking strength? (If my brain was working today I could
              > > probably work out if this is exactly the same ;) )
              > >
              > > Basically I'm a bit confused, would you mind explaining this a bit
              > > better. I'm planning to do a whiskey very soon and I was going to
              > do
              > > it as gatesbox did, I think I may have been surprised by the
              > > intensity and strength of the flavour. ;)
              > >
              > > Thanks, much appreciated.
              >
              >
              > CD, look at it this way. The single malt whiskies that make up the
              > base of a blended Scotch, are all drawn at 'cask strength' i.e. 53-
              > 55% abv. So is the 'neutral' grain whisky. Remember it's watered
              > down to 65% before barrelling and aging. Remember also that the age
              > of a blend, as stated on the label, is the age of the 'youngest'
              > whisky in the blend. This includes the grain whisky.
              >
              > So the 35 or 40 malts are mixed together i.e. 'vatted', and the
              > resulting overall abv is about ~53%. No water has yet been added.
              >
              > Now you add to this the aged grain alcohol (53-55%) in the ratio
              > 70:30, grain whisky to single malt blends, BY VOLUME. THIS you cut
              > to your drinking strength with water. Personally I prefer 43% final
              > abv but most commercial blended scotches are 40%.
              >
              > Blending and diluting is the last act that the master distiller
              > performs on the malts and grain whiskies. The resultant scotch
              > whisky blend is then 'married' for about 6 months in old used casks
              > (no additional flavour or colours) and then bottled.
              >
              > In the home distilling environment, I find that the aging
              > and 'marriage' can be speeded up by judicious use of an aeration
              > system. See my previous posts #22159, #22161.
              >
              > HTH
              > Slainte!
              > regards Harry
            • Zarklan Zhaphedoix
              I went to the Scotch Heritage Museum in Edinburgh Scotland and saw that the blended scotch was blended from Pot Still Products and Coffee Still products. The
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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                I went to the Scotch Heritage Museum in Edinburgh
                Scotland and saw that the blended scotch was blended
                from Pot Still Products and Coffee Still products.

                The tourguide, an American, gave the impression that
                the blended scotch was essentially good scotch cut
                with industrial type alcohol.


                --- Maxime Belair <maxime_belair@...> wrote:

                > Hi,
                >
                > I'm very surprised that blended scotch is
                > diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home
                > might be twice less expensive than I though if a
                > ratio
                > of 70neutral/30whisky gives enough flavour.
                >
                > But when you buy a bottle of single malt, is it
                > diluted with some neutral alcohol?
                >
                > Is it the same for bourbon, irish whisky, rhum,
                > cognac, brandy...?
                >
                > Thank you,
                >
                > Maxime Belair
                >
                >
                >
                __________________________________________________________
                > L�che-vitrine ou l�che-�cran ?
                > magasinage.yahoo.ca
                >


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              • Harry
                ... age ... simulate ... There s no doubt that a wee splash of sherry in your home-made poteen will give it a lift. However there s some debate about
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "yttrium_nitrate" <incatare@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > A lot of scotch whisky is aged in barrels that have been used to
                  age
                  > sherry. If you add a wee bit of sherry to the whisky, it can
                  simulate
                  > part of aging in used barrel.



                  There's no doubt that a wee 'splash' of sherry in your home-made
                  poteen will give it a lift. However there's some debate about
                  whether sherry barrels (specifically Oloroso sherry) from Spain
                  actually do anything for the profile.

                  Some sources say that the barrels are imported into
                  Scotland 'complete' with a half litre of sherry still in the cask.
                  Other sources say the barrels are broken down into staves for
                  transportation, and re-cut and reassembled by the coopers when they
                  take delivery.

                  As to the 'sherried' finish that scotch whisky afficionados speak
                  of, this post on Riannon's Celtic Malts forum is interesting...

                  <quote>
                  American oak and European oak have a significantly different impact
                  on maturing whiskies.

                  Much of what is commonly called a 'sherry' flavour actually derives
                  not from a cask's former content, but from the European oak effect.
                  I have tasted samples from European oak casks that had previously
                  held no sherry or other fortified wines, yet the whisky had very
                  obvious 'sherried' characteristics.
                  </quote>
                  (Source:
                  http://www.celticmalts.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25
                  the last post on that page.

                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                • Harry
                  ... all the whisky was distilled at the same distillery, and is not combined with grain whisky. ... Max, you need a crash course in Scotch. :-)
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Maxime Belair
                    <maxime_belair@y...> wrote:
                    > Hi again,
                    >
                    > I forgot to talk about these "neutral
                    > grain alcohol" they use for the blend. If this
                    > "neutral grain alcohol" is made from barley, it means
                    > that there is some spent flavour? This because they
                    > don't take the tails, they only take the clean middle
                    > run.
                    >
                    > Right?
                    >
                    > Maxime Belair
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > I'm very surprised that blended scotch is
                    > diluted with neutral spirit. Making scotch at home
                    > might be twice less expensive than I though if a ratio
                    > of 70neutral/30whisky gives enough flavour.
                    >
                    > But when you buy a bottle of single malt, is it
                    > diluted with some neutral alcohol?

                    >>>>>>>>>>>>> No. A Single Malt Scotch is an unblended Malt Whisky;
                    all the whisky was distilled at the same distillery, and is not
                    combined with grain whisky.
                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    > Is it the same for bourbon, irish whisky, rhum,
                    > cognac, brandy...?

                    >>>>>>>>>>> No, níl, no mon, non.
                    >>>>>>>>>>>


                    > Thank you,
                    >
                    > Maxime Belair


                    Max, you need a crash course in Scotch. :-)

                    http://0url.com/www.whiskyweb.com-R

                    http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Scotch_whisky

                    HTH
                    Slainte!
                    regards Harry
                  • yttrium_nitrate
                    It seems like it would be expensive to break apart a barrel and then reassemble it. Something that would not appeal to scotish sensibilities. I agree that the
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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                      It seems like it would be expensive to break apart a barrel and then
                      reassemble it. Something that would not appeal to scotish
                      sensibilities. I agree that the oak can have a tremendous inpact on
                      the flavor, but American/European oak is not the only variabile when
                      it comes to oak. The age of the tree, the location of the tree, and
                      the part of the tree that is used to make the barrel all have an
                      impact on the final taste. The time of year that tree was cut down may
                      even change the flavor.

                      > There's no doubt that a wee 'splash' of sherry in your home-made
                      > poteen will give it a lift. However there's some debate about
                      > whether sherry barrels (specifically Oloroso sherry) from Spain
                      > actually do anything for the profile.
                      >
                      > Some sources say that the barrels are imported into
                      > Scotland 'complete' with a half litre of sherry still in the cask.
                      > Other sources say the barrels are broken down into staves for
                      > transportation, and re-cut and reassembled by the coopers when they
                      > take delivery.
                      >
                      > As to the 'sherried' finish that scotch whisky afficionados speak
                      > of, this post on Riannon's Celtic Malts forum is interesting...
                      >
                      > <quote>
                      > American oak and European oak have a significantly different impact
                      > on maturing whiskies.
                      >
                      > Much of what is commonly called a 'sherry' flavour actually derives
                      > not from a cask's former content, but from the European oak effect.
                      > I have tasted samples from European oak casks that had previously
                      > held no sherry or other fortified wines, yet the whisky had very
                      > obvious 'sherried' characteristics.
                      > </quote>
                      > (Source:
                      > http://www.celticmalts.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25
                      > the last post on that page.
                      >
                      > Slainte!
                      > regards Harry
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