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Re: 55 gallon of mash

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  • waljaco
    Wine after its initial open primary fermentation period is kept for up to 6 months with an airlock for the secondary stage. With an airlock you can keep it for
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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      Wine after its initial open primary fermentation period is kept for
      up to 6 months with an airlock for the secondary stage. With an
      airlock you can keep it for years if you are prepared to remove the
      yeast deposit every 3 months as yeast hydrolyses creating off-
      flavours.
      wal
      (I asume you are referring to winemaking which is legal for these
      amounts!)
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jimpuchai" <puchai4@o...> wrote:
      > Mark,
      > Please remember this is a hobby, and a sensitive one for many. 55
      > gallons of anything does not send a good message to anyone who
      > visits this group. You will usually see liquid mash volumes
      > mentioned up to 25 litres and very occasionally more. We are small
      > time for a reason. I am sure you can work out why.
      >
      > Jim Puchai.
      >
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <drybag1@m...> wrote:
      > > how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
      > > before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able
      > to
      > > to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before
      > the
      > > mash starts to sour or go bad thank you
    • Scott Petrinec
      Jim, Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash s to 20%abv. SO...if
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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        Jim,
        Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash's to 20%abv.
        SO...if someone distilled a 55 gallon batch of a 5%whiskey batch they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv product).
        IF someone distilled a 25L batch of a 20%abv wash, they would get 5.277L (if it was run from the same still). SO...what is so bad about fermenting ONE batch to achieve 10L, as compared to fermenting TWO batches to achieve the same?(is someone who ferments 2 25L batch's not considered "small time")... Wether this is our hobby or not is irrelevant to this subject. a simple question was asked.

        jimpuchai <puchai4@...> wrote:
        Mark,
        Please remember this is a hobby, and a sensitive one for many. 55
        gallons of anything does not send a good message to anyone who
        visits this group. You will usually see liquid mash volumes
        mentioned up to 25 litres and very occasionally more. We are small
        time for a reason. I am sure you can work out why.

        Jim Puchai.


        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <drybag1@m...> wrote:
        > how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
        > before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able
        to
        > to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before
        the
        > mash starts to sour or go bad thank you



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Scott Petrinec
        Mark, To me, it would depend on what it is in the barrel. If it is something that might benefit from age, don t worry about it. BUT...if you are gonna run some
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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          Mark,

          To me, it would depend on what it is in the barrel. If it is something that might benefit from age, don't worry about it. BUT...if you are gonna run some of it, you might as well run all of it(in stripping runs at least). The reason I say this is because if you ran 10-15 gallons of it, you would have alot of air in your barrel. And this is not good for storing. It could help to build bacterias that could either turn your product into vinegar, or just plain give it some nasty off flavors.

          If it were me, I would strip it all, then run the rest when it is convienient.

          ~Scott


          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <drybag1@m...> wrote:
          > > how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
          > > before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able
          > to
          > > to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before
          > the
          > > mash starts to sour or go bad thank you



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          FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • yttrium_nitrate
          In answer to the question, the time it takes for a 55 gallon wash to go bad is dependant on its alcohol content and the conitions in which it is kept. A low
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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            In answer to the question, the time it takes for a 55 gallon wash to
            go bad is dependant on its alcohol content and the conitions in which
            it is kept. A low ethanol wash kept in a leaky container will go bad
            much faster than a 18% wash kept in an airtight container.


            > Jim,
            > Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as
            alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash's to 20%abv.
            > SO...if someone distilled a 55 gallon batch of a 5%whiskey batch
            they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv
            product).
            > IF someone distilled a 25L batch of a 20%abv wash, they would get
            5.277L (if it was run from the same still). SO...what is so bad about
            fermenting ONE batch to achieve 10L, as compared to fermenting TWO
            batches to achieve the same?(is someone who ferments 2 25L batch's not
            considered "small time")... Wether this is our hobby or not is
            irrelevant to this subject. a simple question was asked.
          • Harry
            ... to ... which ... bad ... Alcohol is a preservative. Wash below 9% abv is susceptible to bacterial infection causing spoilage. Hops are also a natural
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "yttrium_nitrate" <incatare@h...>
              wrote:
              > In answer to the question, the time it takes for a 55 gallon wash
              to
              > go bad is dependant on its alcohol content and the conitions in
              which
              > it is kept. A low ethanol wash kept in a leaky container will go
              bad
              > much faster than a 18% wash kept in an airtight container.


              Alcohol is a preservative.

              Wash below 9% abv is susceptible to bacterial infection causing
              spoilage.

              Hops are also a natural preservative.
              That's why they use hops in beer, as additional preservative.

              INDIA PALE ALE (IPA):
              This is a traditional British style strong, hoppier pale ale that
              had to withstand the journey from England to India by ship without
              spoiling. That was achieved by increasing the alcohol and the hops.

              That's also why they distill scotch whisky wort as soon as possible
              after fermentation, because whisky wort is only about 5-8% alcohol,
              and doesn't (or shouldn't) contain hops. Hops refuse to grow in
              Scotland and that's part of the reason that distilling became an
              ideal method of preservation.

              Wash that contains very little residual sugar (i.e. < 1.000) and has
              abv > 10% is relatively safe to store for several months, providing
              the normal storage precautions are taken, such as airtight
              containers and/or refrigeration.

              HTH
              Slainte!
              regards Harry
            • jimpuchai
              ... alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash s to 20%abv. ... they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Scott Petrinec <crazycro2@y...>
                wrote:
                > Jim,
                > Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as
                alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash's to
                20%abv.
                > SO...if someone distilled a 55 gallon batch of a 5%whiskey batch
                they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv
                product).
                > IF someone distilled a 25L batch of a 20%abv wash, they would get
                5.277L (if it was run from the same still). SO...what is so bad
                about fermenting ONE batch to achieve 10L, as compared to fermenting
                TWO batches to achieve the same?(is someone who ferments 2 25L
                batch's not considered "small time")... Wether this is our hobby or
                not is irrelevant to this subject. a simple question was asked.
                >


                Hello Scott,
                My reply to Mark does not say that he should not ferment large
                quantities of mash. It does say, that this is not a good image for
                people who visit this group. In part, I am referring here to a wide
                range of regulatory and enforcement authorities who will make this a
                regular port of call. Paranoia? No. They will simply be doing their
                job.

                My guess is, that there is currently some tolerance for small time
                home distillers in many countries. The way to maintain the status
                quo is to continue to keep a low profile. In my opinion,
                Marks "simple question" was the exact equivalent of putting your
                head above the parapet when your defensive position is surrounded by
                highly competent and bored sharp-shooters. Not recommended.

                Jim Puchai
              • Lindsay Williams
                Some may think Jim is being a bit po-faced about this but even though I am from a country where our hobby is legal, why would we want to be
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 31, 2004
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                  <sermon>
                  Some may think Jim is being a bit po-faced about this but even though
                  I am from a country where our hobby is legal, why would we want to be
                  provocative? The authorities and wowsers don't care what percentage
                  may or may not be in the wash but the quantity is what will trigger
                  off reactions. I'm with Jim I'm afraid. If you want to do big
                  quantities, keep it to yourself and especially keep it off our newsgroups.
                  </sermon>
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jimpuchai" <puchai4@o...> wrote:

                  > Hello Scott,
                  > My reply to Mark does not say that he should not ferment large
                  > quantities of mash. It does say, that this is not a good image for
                  > people who visit this group. In part, I am referring here to a wide
                  > range of regulatory and enforcement authorities who will make this a
                  > regular port of call. Paranoia? No. They will simply be doing their
                  > job.
                  >
                  > My guess is, that there is currently some tolerance for small time
                  > home distillers in many countries. The way to maintain the status
                  > quo is to continue to keep a low profile. In my opinion,
                  > Marks "simple question" was the exact equivalent of putting your
                  > head above the parapet when your defensive position is surrounded by
                  > highly competent and bored sharp-shooters. Not recommended.
                  >
                  > Jim Puchai
                • Scott Petrinec
                  JIM, Winemaking and distilling has been in my family for 250 yrs+(that I know of). On my mothers side, the winemaking in the US. You are legally allowed to
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 31, 2004
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                    JIM,
                    Winemaking and distilling has been in my family for 250 yrs+(that I know of). On my mothers side, the winemaking in the US. You are legally allowed to ferment up to 200 gallons a year, and that is 200 gallons of wine that turned out and was bottled. Batches that spoil and get discarded don't count. Many people know that we make wine, and we have yet to have the authorities knock on our doors. In fact I ferment my 55 gallon drum in my front yard.
                    SO, MARK...if you want to ferment in 55 gallon drums to acheive the same amount of finnished product as 2 25l batches, and you have question, don't be afraid to ask...even though some people are so darn worried about what kind of container you use. There are PLENTY of people here and in our comunity that ferment large batches. But again, I suggest fermenting it quick, and stripping it quick, for spoilage reasons and so that you can keep your drum emptied.


                    jimpuchai <puchai4@...> wrote:
                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Scott Petrinec <crazycro2@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Jim,
                    > Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as
                    alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash's to
                    20%abv.
                    > SO...if someone distilled a 55 gallon batch of a 5%whiskey batch
                    they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv
                    product).
                    > IF someone distilled a 25L batch of a 20%abv wash, they would get
                    5.277L (if it was run from the same still). SO...what is so bad
                    about fermenting ONE batch to achieve 10L, as compared to fermenting
                    TWO batches to achieve the same?(is someone who ferments 2 25L
                    batch's not considered "small time")... Wether this is our hobby or
                    not is irrelevant to this subject. a simple question was asked.
                    >


                    Hello Scott,
                    My reply to Mark does not say that he should not ferment large
                    quantities of mash. It does say, that this is not a good image for
                    people who visit this group. In part, I am referring here to a wide
                    range of regulatory and enforcement authorities who will make this a
                    regular port of call. Paranoia? No. They will simply be doing their
                    job.

                    My guess is, that there is currently some tolerance for small time
                    home distillers in many countries. The way to maintain the status
                    quo is to continue to keep a low profile. In my opinion,
                    Marks "simple question" was the exact equivalent of putting your
                    head above the parapet when your defensive position is surrounded by
                    highly competent and bored sharp-shooters. Not recommended.

                    Jim Puchai



                    Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                    FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org


                    Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


                    ---------------------------------
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/

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                    Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • jimpuchai
                    ... know of). On my mothers side, the winemaking in the US. You are legally allowed to ferment up to 200 gallons a year, and that is 200 gallons of wine that
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 31, 2004
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                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Scott Petrinec <crazycro2@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > JIM,
                      > Winemaking and distilling has been in my family for 250 yrs+(that I
                      know of). On my mothers side, the winemaking in the US. You are
                      legally allowed to ferment up to 200 gallons a year, and that is 200
                      gallons of wine that turned out and was bottled. Batches that spoil
                      and get discarded don't count. Many people know that we make wine,
                      and we have yet to have the authorities knock on our doors. In fact I
                      ferment my 55 gallon drum in my front yard.
                      > SO, MARK...if you want to ferment in 55 gallon drums to acheive
                      the same amount of finnished product as 2 25l batches, and you have
                      question, don't be afraid to ask...even though some people are so
                      darn worried about what kind of container you use. There are PLENTY
                      of people here and in our comunity that ferment large batches. But
                      again, I suggest fermenting it quick, and stripping it quick, for
                      spoilage reasons and so that you can keep your drum emptied.
                      >
                      >

                      Hello Scott,
                      Thank you for the interesting information about wine. However this is
                      a distillers group and the original posters question specifically
                      mentioned a 5 or 10 gallon pot still. He was not referring to wine.
                      We do not know the strength of his mash, but this is of no real
                      significance. My caution was, and is, well placed.

                      I can't help feeling that, in continuing this discussion, you may not
                      be thinking of the (however remote) possible consequences. For that
                      reason, and that alone, I will make no more posts on this subject. I
                      suggest you may want to think on similar lines.

                      Cordially

                      Jim Puchai.
                    • Carter Cathey
                      A sealed mash will keep for months at the right temperature even longer if you rack off of the trub. However, be very careful about your sanitation every time
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 1, 2004
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                        A sealed mash will keep for months at the right temperature even longer if
                        you rack off of the trub. However, be very careful about your sanitation
                        every time you open it for transfers, etc. I would also be careful about
                        temps. Don't let it get too warm. 70ish is ok, 50ish is better. And don't
                        disturb it or move unnecessarily. There is a blanket of CO2 on top that
                        protects it. If you lose this it is more vulnerable to infection.

                        The best thing to do would be to run your 55 gallons through a stripping
                        run, getting the alc up, and then re-run at you leisure.

                        But, all said, it should be fine for a short time as you run it through your
                        still over a week or so.

                        Carter

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "mark" <drybag1@...>
                        To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 6:57 PM
                        Subject: [Distillers] 55 gallon of mash


                        > how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
                        > before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able to
                        > to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before the
                        > mash starts to sour or go bad thank you
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Maxime Belair
                        I once kept a 55L 11-12% sugar wash (with an air-lock) for about six months without problems. I think it could last even for 10 years and more if it s
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 1, 2004
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                          I once kept a 55L 11-12% sugar wash (with an air-lock)
                          for about six months without problems. I think it
                          could last even for 10 years and more if it's sealed.

                          __________________________________________________________
                          Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
                          magasinage.yahoo.ca
                        • Sven Pfitt
                          I think you are missing the point. The traditional beer was often made with open fermenters. If you want to keep a fermented wort (beer term for wash) for an
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 3, 2004
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                            I think you are missing the point.

                            The traditional beer was often made with open fermenters.

                            If you want to keep a fermented wort (beer term for wash) for an
                            extended period of time, you simply MUST follow scrutinuous
                            sanitization procedures.

                            (1) sanitize everything that will touch the wort before you start.
                            (2) Boil the wort (or wash) and chill before pitching (CRITICAL to
                            kill anything in it). Be sure your wort chiller (if used) is
                            sanitixed as well.
                            (3) Use air locks to keep nasties out. NO Openfermentation.
                            (4) Sanitize everything you use for racking wort after it has
                            fermented.
                            (5) High gravity wort keeps better.

                            After you worry about the above, then you can worry about racking off
                            the yeat cake and avoiding off flavors assocaited with prolonged
                            yeast exposure.
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