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55 gallon of mash

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  • mark
    how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able to to run through the 55 gallon
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 29, 2004
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      how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
      before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able to
      to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before the
      mash starts to sour or go bad thank you
    • jimpuchai
      Mark, Please remember this is a hobby, and a sensitive one for many. 55 gallons of anything does not send a good message to anyone who visits this group. You
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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        Mark,
        Please remember this is a hobby, and a sensitive one for many. 55
        gallons of anything does not send a good message to anyone who
        visits this group. You will usually see liquid mash volumes
        mentioned up to 25 litres and very occasionally more. We are small
        time for a reason. I am sure you can work out why.

        Jim Puchai.


        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <drybag1@m...> wrote:
        > how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
        > before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able
        to
        > to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before
        the
        > mash starts to sour or go bad thank you
      • waljaco
        Wine after its initial open primary fermentation period is kept for up to 6 months with an airlock for the secondary stage. With an airlock you can keep it for
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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          Wine after its initial open primary fermentation period is kept for
          up to 6 months with an airlock for the secondary stage. With an
          airlock you can keep it for years if you are prepared to remove the
          yeast deposit every 3 months as yeast hydrolyses creating off-
          flavours.
          wal
          (I asume you are referring to winemaking which is legal for these
          amounts!)
          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jimpuchai" <puchai4@o...> wrote:
          > Mark,
          > Please remember this is a hobby, and a sensitive one for many. 55
          > gallons of anything does not send a good message to anyone who
          > visits this group. You will usually see liquid mash volumes
          > mentioned up to 25 litres and very occasionally more. We are small
          > time for a reason. I am sure you can work out why.
          >
          > Jim Puchai.
          >
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <drybag1@m...> wrote:
          > > how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
          > > before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able
          > to
          > > to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before
          > the
          > > mash starts to sour or go bad thank you
        • Scott Petrinec
          Jim, Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash s to 20%abv. SO...if
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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            Jim,
            Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash's to 20%abv.
            SO...if someone distilled a 55 gallon batch of a 5%whiskey batch they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv product).
            IF someone distilled a 25L batch of a 20%abv wash, they would get 5.277L (if it was run from the same still). SO...what is so bad about fermenting ONE batch to achieve 10L, as compared to fermenting TWO batches to achieve the same?(is someone who ferments 2 25L batch's not considered "small time")... Wether this is our hobby or not is irrelevant to this subject. a simple question was asked.

            jimpuchai <puchai4@...> wrote:
            Mark,
            Please remember this is a hobby, and a sensitive one for many. 55
            gallons of anything does not send a good message to anyone who
            visits this group. You will usually see liquid mash volumes
            mentioned up to 25 litres and very occasionally more. We are small
            time for a reason. I am sure you can work out why.

            Jim Puchai.


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <drybag1@m...> wrote:
            > how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
            > before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able
            to
            > to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before
            the
            > mash starts to sour or go bad thank you



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Scott Petrinec
            Mark, To me, it would depend on what it is in the barrel. If it is something that might benefit from age, don t worry about it. BUT...if you are gonna run some
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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              Mark,

              To me, it would depend on what it is in the barrel. If it is something that might benefit from age, don't worry about it. BUT...if you are gonna run some of it, you might as well run all of it(in stripping runs at least). The reason I say this is because if you ran 10-15 gallons of it, you would have alot of air in your barrel. And this is not good for storing. It could help to build bacterias that could either turn your product into vinegar, or just plain give it some nasty off flavors.

              If it were me, I would strip it all, then run the rest when it is convienient.

              ~Scott


              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <drybag1@m...> wrote:
              > > how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
              > > before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able
              > to
              > > to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before
              > the
              > > mash starts to sour or go bad thank you



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              FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • yttrium_nitrate
              In answer to the question, the time it takes for a 55 gallon wash to go bad is dependant on its alcohol content and the conitions in which it is kept. A low
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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                In answer to the question, the time it takes for a 55 gallon wash to
                go bad is dependant on its alcohol content and the conitions in which
                it is kept. A low ethanol wash kept in a leaky container will go bad
                much faster than a 18% wash kept in an airtight container.


                > Jim,
                > Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as
                alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash's to 20%abv.
                > SO...if someone distilled a 55 gallon batch of a 5%whiskey batch
                they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv
                product).
                > IF someone distilled a 25L batch of a 20%abv wash, they would get
                5.277L (if it was run from the same still). SO...what is so bad about
                fermenting ONE batch to achieve 10L, as compared to fermenting TWO
                batches to achieve the same?(is someone who ferments 2 25L batch's not
                considered "small time")... Wether this is our hobby or not is
                irrelevant to this subject. a simple question was asked.
              • Harry
                ... to ... which ... bad ... Alcohol is a preservative. Wash below 9% abv is susceptible to bacterial infection causing spoilage. Hops are also a natural
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "yttrium_nitrate" <incatare@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > In answer to the question, the time it takes for a 55 gallon wash
                  to
                  > go bad is dependant on its alcohol content and the conitions in
                  which
                  > it is kept. A low ethanol wash kept in a leaky container will go
                  bad
                  > much faster than a 18% wash kept in an airtight container.


                  Alcohol is a preservative.

                  Wash below 9% abv is susceptible to bacterial infection causing
                  spoilage.

                  Hops are also a natural preservative.
                  That's why they use hops in beer, as additional preservative.

                  INDIA PALE ALE (IPA):
                  This is a traditional British style strong, hoppier pale ale that
                  had to withstand the journey from England to India by ship without
                  spoiling. That was achieved by increasing the alcohol and the hops.

                  That's also why they distill scotch whisky wort as soon as possible
                  after fermentation, because whisky wort is only about 5-8% alcohol,
                  and doesn't (or shouldn't) contain hops. Hops refuse to grow in
                  Scotland and that's part of the reason that distilling became an
                  ideal method of preservation.

                  Wash that contains very little residual sugar (i.e. < 1.000) and has
                  abv > 10% is relatively safe to store for several months, providing
                  the normal storage precautions are taken, such as airtight
                  containers and/or refrigeration.

                  HTH
                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                • jimpuchai
                  ... alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash s to 20%abv. ... they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 30, 2004
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                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Scott Petrinec <crazycro2@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Jim,
                    > Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as
                    alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash's to
                    20%abv.
                    > SO...if someone distilled a 55 gallon batch of a 5%whiskey batch
                    they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv
                    product).
                    > IF someone distilled a 25L batch of a 20%abv wash, they would get
                    5.277L (if it was run from the same still). SO...what is so bad
                    about fermenting ONE batch to achieve 10L, as compared to fermenting
                    TWO batches to achieve the same?(is someone who ferments 2 25L
                    batch's not considered "small time")... Wether this is our hobby or
                    not is irrelevant to this subject. a simple question was asked.
                    >


                    Hello Scott,
                    My reply to Mark does not say that he should not ferment large
                    quantities of mash. It does say, that this is not a good image for
                    people who visit this group. In part, I am referring here to a wide
                    range of regulatory and enforcement authorities who will make this a
                    regular port of call. Paranoia? No. They will simply be doing their
                    job.

                    My guess is, that there is currently some tolerance for small time
                    home distillers in many countries. The way to maintain the status
                    quo is to continue to keep a low profile. In my opinion,
                    Marks "simple question" was the exact equivalent of putting your
                    head above the parapet when your defensive position is surrounded by
                    highly competent and bored sharp-shooters. Not recommended.

                    Jim Puchai
                  • Lindsay Williams
                    Some may think Jim is being a bit po-faced about this but even though I am from a country where our hobby is legal, why would we want to be
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 31, 2004
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                      <sermon>
                      Some may think Jim is being a bit po-faced about this but even though
                      I am from a country where our hobby is legal, why would we want to be
                      provocative? The authorities and wowsers don't care what percentage
                      may or may not be in the wash but the quantity is what will trigger
                      off reactions. I'm with Jim I'm afraid. If you want to do big
                      quantities, keep it to yourself and especially keep it off our newsgroups.
                      </sermon>
                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jimpuchai" <puchai4@o...> wrote:

                      > Hello Scott,
                      > My reply to Mark does not say that he should not ferment large
                      > quantities of mash. It does say, that this is not a good image for
                      > people who visit this group. In part, I am referring here to a wide
                      > range of regulatory and enforcement authorities who will make this a
                      > regular port of call. Paranoia? No. They will simply be doing their
                      > job.
                      >
                      > My guess is, that there is currently some tolerance for small time
                      > home distillers in many countries. The way to maintain the status
                      > quo is to continue to keep a low profile. In my opinion,
                      > Marks "simple question" was the exact equivalent of putting your
                      > head above the parapet when your defensive position is surrounded by
                      > highly competent and bored sharp-shooters. Not recommended.
                      >
                      > Jim Puchai
                    • Scott Petrinec
                      JIM, Winemaking and distilling has been in my family for 250 yrs+(that I know of). On my mothers side, the winemaking in the US. You are legally allowed to
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 31, 2004
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                        JIM,
                        Winemaking and distilling has been in my family for 250 yrs+(that I know of). On my mothers side, the winemaking in the US. You are legally allowed to ferment up to 200 gallons a year, and that is 200 gallons of wine that turned out and was bottled. Batches that spoil and get discarded don't count. Many people know that we make wine, and we have yet to have the authorities knock on our doors. In fact I ferment my 55 gallon drum in my front yard.
                        SO, MARK...if you want to ferment in 55 gallon drums to acheive the same amount of finnished product as 2 25l batches, and you have question, don't be afraid to ask...even though some people are so darn worried about what kind of container you use. There are PLENTY of people here and in our comunity that ferment large batches. But again, I suggest fermenting it quick, and stripping it quick, for spoilage reasons and so that you can keep your drum emptied.


                        jimpuchai <puchai4@...> wrote:
                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Scott Petrinec <crazycro2@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > Jim,
                        > Remember, some recipes are only meant to ferment to 5%abv(such as
                        alot of whiskeys). Also, some people ferment their sugar wash's to
                        20%abv.
                        > SO...if someone distilled a 55 gallon batch of a 5%whiskey batch
                        they would get 10.997L of distilate(if their still produces a 90%abv
                        product).
                        > IF someone distilled a 25L batch of a 20%abv wash, they would get
                        5.277L (if it was run from the same still). SO...what is so bad
                        about fermenting ONE batch to achieve 10L, as compared to fermenting
                        TWO batches to achieve the same?(is someone who ferments 2 25L
                        batch's not considered "small time")... Wether this is our hobby or
                        not is irrelevant to this subject. a simple question was asked.
                        >


                        Hello Scott,
                        My reply to Mark does not say that he should not ferment large
                        quantities of mash. It does say, that this is not a good image for
                        people who visit this group. In part, I am referring here to a wide
                        range of regulatory and enforcement authorities who will make this a
                        regular port of call. Paranoia? No. They will simply be doing their
                        job.

                        My guess is, that there is currently some tolerance for small time
                        home distillers in many countries. The way to maintain the status
                        quo is to continue to keep a low profile. In my opinion,
                        Marks "simple question" was the exact equivalent of putting your
                        head above the parapet when your defensive position is surrounded by
                        highly competent and bored sharp-shooters. Not recommended.

                        Jim Puchai



                        Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                        FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org


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                        ---------------------------------
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                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • jimpuchai
                        ... know of). On my mothers side, the winemaking in the US. You are legally allowed to ferment up to 200 gallons a year, and that is 200 gallons of wine that
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 31, 2004
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                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Scott Petrinec <crazycro2@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > JIM,
                          > Winemaking and distilling has been in my family for 250 yrs+(that I
                          know of). On my mothers side, the winemaking in the US. You are
                          legally allowed to ferment up to 200 gallons a year, and that is 200
                          gallons of wine that turned out and was bottled. Batches that spoil
                          and get discarded don't count. Many people know that we make wine,
                          and we have yet to have the authorities knock on our doors. In fact I
                          ferment my 55 gallon drum in my front yard.
                          > SO, MARK...if you want to ferment in 55 gallon drums to acheive
                          the same amount of finnished product as 2 25l batches, and you have
                          question, don't be afraid to ask...even though some people are so
                          darn worried about what kind of container you use. There are PLENTY
                          of people here and in our comunity that ferment large batches. But
                          again, I suggest fermenting it quick, and stripping it quick, for
                          spoilage reasons and so that you can keep your drum emptied.
                          >
                          >

                          Hello Scott,
                          Thank you for the interesting information about wine. However this is
                          a distillers group and the original posters question specifically
                          mentioned a 5 or 10 gallon pot still. He was not referring to wine.
                          We do not know the strength of his mash, but this is of no real
                          significance. My caution was, and is, well placed.

                          I can't help feeling that, in continuing this discussion, you may not
                          be thinking of the (however remote) possible consequences. For that
                          reason, and that alone, I will make no more posts on this subject. I
                          suggest you may want to think on similar lines.

                          Cordially

                          Jim Puchai.
                        • Carter Cathey
                          A sealed mash will keep for months at the right temperature even longer if you rack off of the trub. However, be very careful about your sanitation every time
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 1, 2004
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                            A sealed mash will keep for months at the right temperature even longer if
                            you rack off of the trub. However, be very careful about your sanitation
                            every time you open it for transfers, etc. I would also be careful about
                            temps. Don't let it get too warm. 70ish is ok, 50ish is better. And don't
                            disturb it or move unnecessarily. There is a blanket of CO2 on top that
                            protects it. If you lose this it is more vulnerable to infection.

                            The best thing to do would be to run your 55 gallons through a stripping
                            run, getting the alc up, and then re-run at you leisure.

                            But, all said, it should be fine for a short time as you run it through your
                            still over a week or so.

                            Carter

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "mark" <drybag1@...>
                            To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 6:57 PM
                            Subject: [Distillers] 55 gallon of mash


                            > how long will 55 gallon of mash keep after it has quit working
                            > before it starts to spoil? will a 10-15 gallon pot still be able to
                            > to run through the 55 gallon of mash doing stripping runs before the
                            > mash starts to sour or go bad thank you
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                            > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Maxime Belair
                            I once kept a 55L 11-12% sugar wash (with an air-lock) for about six months without problems. I think it could last even for 10 years and more if it s
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 1, 2004
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                              I once kept a 55L 11-12% sugar wash (with an air-lock)
                              for about six months without problems. I think it
                              could last even for 10 years and more if it's sealed.

                              __________________________________________________________
                              Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
                              magasinage.yahoo.ca
                            • Sven Pfitt
                              I think you are missing the point. The traditional beer was often made with open fermenters. If you want to keep a fermented wort (beer term for wash) for an
                              Message 14 of 14 , Aug 3, 2004
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                                I think you are missing the point.

                                The traditional beer was often made with open fermenters.

                                If you want to keep a fermented wort (beer term for wash) for an
                                extended period of time, you simply MUST follow scrutinuous
                                sanitization procedures.

                                (1) sanitize everything that will touch the wort before you start.
                                (2) Boil the wort (or wash) and chill before pitching (CRITICAL to
                                kill anything in it). Be sure your wort chiller (if used) is
                                sanitixed as well.
                                (3) Use air locks to keep nasties out. NO Openfermentation.
                                (4) Sanitize everything you use for racking wort after it has
                                fermented.
                                (5) High gravity wort keeps better.

                                After you worry about the above, then you can worry about racking off
                                the yeat cake and avoiding off flavors assocaited with prolonged
                                yeast exposure.
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