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Re: [Distillers] milk jugs

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  • Rana Pipiens
    Mark, I saw that same History Channel documentary and thought the same thing. I think they said that the product was 160 proof too and I think that would mean
    Message 1 of 28 , Jul 3, 2004
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      Mark, I saw that same History Channel documentary and thought the same thing. I think they said that the product was 160 proof too and I think that would mean a second time through the pot still. Notice how fast the distillate was coming out? Someone on a homebrewing site pointed out that the same channel has another documentary called "Distillers" which will air in the US on July 12. I'm not sure of the time. By the way do you agree that that was an interesting show? Rana

      Mark <markgofast@...> wrote:I saw a TV show involving moonshine. The 'shiners were collecting /
      storing / transportating their product in common plastic milk jugs.

      Maybe the abv wasn't that high - it looked like a pot still with a
      long worm coil. But I thought that plastic milk jugs made poor
      containers because of the reaction between the plastic and the
      alcohol.

      What's the deal?





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    • linw992003
      ... Yep, sounds fine to me if they are made from the same materials as NZ ones. Ours are made from HDPE (high density polyethylene). Another suitable plastic
      Message 2 of 28 , Jul 3, 2004
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markgofast@h...> wrote:
        > I saw a TV show involving moonshine. The 'shiners were collecting /
        > storing / transportating their product in common plastic milk jugs.
        >
        > Maybe the abv wasn't that high - it looked like a pot still with a
        > long worm coil. But I thought that plastic milk jugs made poor
        > containers because of the reaction between the plastic and the
        > alcohol.
        >
        > What's the deal?

        Yep, sounds fine to me if they are made from the same materials as NZ
        ones. Ours are made from HDPE (high density polyethylene). Another
        suitable plastic is PET (polyethylene terephthalate) as used for
        softdrink and juice bottles and other products.

        Of course, many say that plastic should never be allowed near your
        alcohol so ultimately you will have to decide for yourself!
      • Spiderfly
        Howdy folks Does anybody save that TV-show? Was that an EU TS-sender? Liam ... From: linw992003 To: Sent:
        Message 3 of 28 , Jul 3, 2004
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          Howdy folks

          Does anybody save that TV-show?
          Was that an EU TS-sender?

          Liam

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: linw992003 <linw@...>
          To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 10:55 PM
          Subject: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs


          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markgofast@h...> wrote:
          > > I saw a TV show involving moonshine. The 'shiners were collecting /
          > > storing / transportating their product in common plastic milk jugs.
          > >
          > > Maybe the abv wasn't that high - it looked like a pot still with a
          > > long worm coil. But I thought that plastic milk jugs made poor
          > > containers because of the reaction between the plastic and the
          > > alcohol.
          > >
          > > What's the deal?
          >
          > Yep, sounds fine to me if they are made from the same materials as NZ
          > ones. Ours are made from HDPE (high density polyethylene). Another
          > suitable plastic is PET (polyethylene terephthalate) as used for
          > softdrink and juice bottles and other products.
          >
          > Of course, many say that plastic should never be allowed near your
          > alcohol so ultimately you will have to decide for yourself!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
          > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Deze email is gecontroleerd door CAIWAY Internet Virusvrij.
          > Voor meer informatie, zie http://www.caiway.nl/


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        • Josh Wilson
          Ive made wine form welch s grape juice and I allow it to ferment in the plastic jugs with screw on tops.. as long as I open them up every other day or so to
          Message 4 of 28 , Jul 3, 2004
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            Ive made wine form welch's grape juice and I allow it to ferment in the plastic jugs with screw on tops.. as long as I open them up every other day or so to let out some of the pressure, it works jsut fine.. it doesnt have an unpleasnat taste or anything..




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "linw992003" <linw@...>
            Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 20:55:59 -0000
            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs

            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markgofast@h...> wrote:
            > > I saw a TV show involving moonshine. The 'shiners were collecting /
            > > storing / transportating their product in common plastic milk jugs.
            > >
            > > Maybe the abv wasn't that high - it looked like a pot still with a
            > > long worm coil. But I thought that plastic milk jugs made poor
            > > containers because of the reaction between the plastic and the
            > > alcohol.
            > >
            > > What's the deal?
            >
            > Yep, sounds fine to me if they are made from the same materials as NZ
            > ones. Ours are made from HDPE (high density polyethylene). Another
            > suitable plastic is PET (polyethylene terephthalate) as used for
            > softdrink and juice bottles and other products.
            >
            > Of course, many say that plastic should never be allowed near your
            > alcohol so ultimately you will have to decide for yourself!
            >
            >

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          • Rana Pipiens
            Hello Spiderman. I didn t record the show but they advertised that copies could pe purchased through The History Channel. I saw this show last Thursday night
            Message 5 of 28 , Jul 3, 2004
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              Hello Spiderman. I didn't record the show but they advertised that copies could pe purchased through The History Channel. I saw this show last Thursday night in southern California. Rana

              Spiderfly <whperdix@...> wrote:Howdy folks

              Does anybody save that TV-show?
              Was that an EU TS-sender?

              Liam

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: linw992003 <linw@...>
              To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 10:55 PM
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs


              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markgofast@h...> wrote:
              > > I saw a TV show involving moonshine. The 'shiners were collecting /
              > > storing / transportating their product in common plastic milk jugs.
              > >
              > > Maybe the abv wasn't that high - it looked like a pot still with a
              > > long worm coil. But I thought that plastic milk jugs made poor
              > > containers because of the reaction between the plastic and the
              > > alcohol.
              > >
              > > What's the deal?
              >
              > Yep, sounds fine to me if they are made from the same materials as NZ
              > ones. Ours are made from HDPE (high density polyethylene). Another
              > suitable plastic is PET (polyethylene terephthalate) as used for
              > softdrink and juice bottles and other products.
              >
              > Of course, many say that plastic should never be allowed near your
              > alcohol so ultimately you will have to decide for yourself!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Deze email is gecontroleerd door CAIWAY Internet Virusvrij.
              > Voor meer informatie, zie http://www.caiway.nl/


              ---
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            • Rana Pipiens
              Josh, I think that the concern is with high abv. I had a cylinder for testing specific gravity with hydrometer at normal beer and wine %abvs that started to
              Message 6 of 28 , Jul 3, 2004
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                Josh, I think that the concern is with high abv. I had a cylinder for testing specific gravity with hydrometer at normal beer and wine %abvs that started to dissolve at high % when checking distillate with an alcoholmetmeter. Rana

                Josh Wilson <lordwilson@...> wrote:Ive made wine form welch's grape juice and I allow it to ferment in the plastic jugs with screw on tops.. as long as I open them up every other day or so to let out some of the pressure, it works jsut fine.. it doesnt have an unpleasnat taste or anything..




                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "linw992003" <linw@...>
                Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 20:55:59 -0000
                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs

                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markgofast@h...> wrote:
                > > I saw a TV show involving moonshine. The 'shiners were collecting /
                > > storing / transportating their product in common plastic milk jugs.
                > >
                > > Maybe the abv wasn't that high - it looked like a pot still with a
                > > long worm coil. But I thought that plastic milk jugs made poor
                > > containers because of the reaction between the plastic and the
                > > alcohol.
                > >
                > > What's the deal?
                >
                > Yep, sounds fine to me if they are made from the same materials as NZ
                > ones. Ours are made from HDPE (high density polyethylene). Another
                > suitable plastic is PET (polyethylene terephthalate) as used for
                > softdrink and juice bottles and other products.
                >
                > Of course, many say that plastic should never be allowed near your
                > alcohol so ultimately you will have to decide for yourself!
                >
                >

                --
                _______________________________________________
                Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
                http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10



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              • Grayson Stewart
                I think most everyone ferments in plastic as the alcohol concentration is not that great. I recorded that show from the History Channel...but what is EU TS-
                Message 7 of 28 , Jul 3, 2004
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                  I think most everyone ferments in plastic as the alcohol
                  concentration is not that great.

                  I recorded that show from the History Channel...but what is EU TS-
                  sender?
                • Spiderfly
                  Howdy Grayson EU-TS sender is the same as like BBC. What is your location? Maybe can you making a dvd? and you can send me a copy of that file to my
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jul 4, 2004
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                    Howdy Grayson

                    EU-TS sender is the same as like BBC.
                    What is your location?

                    Maybe can you making a dvd?
                    and you can send me a copy of that file to my pigeon-hole?

                    We cannot see US TV only CNN via the TV-cable.

                    All the best from the Netherlands

                    Liam
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Grayson Stewart <grayson_stewart66@...>
                    To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 11:54 PM
                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs


                    > I think most everyone ferments in plastic as the alcohol
                    > concentration is not that great.
                    >
                    > I recorded that show from the History Channel...but what is EU TS-
                    > sender?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                    > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Deze email is gecontroleerd door CAIWAY Internet Virusvrij.
                    > Voor meer informatie, zie http://www.caiway.nl/


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                  • Spiderfly
                    Hello Rana In europe we cannot see that channel only via the cable CNN. In your location living some of my mates. (These are flyfishers) Thanx for your info
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jul 4, 2004
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                      Hello Rana

                      In europe we cannot see that channel only via the cable CNN.

                      In your location living some of my mates. (These are flyfishers)

                      Thanx for your info

                      Liam

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Rana Pipiens <ranawater@...>
                      To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 11:39 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs


                      > Hello Spiderman. I didn't record the show but they advertised that copies
                      could pe purchased through The History Channel. I saw this show last
                      Thursday night in southern California. Rana
                      >
                      > Spiderfly <whperdix@...> wrote:Howdy folks
                      >
                      > Does anybody save that TV-show?
                      > Was that an EU TS-sender?
                      >
                      > Liam
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: linw992003 <linw@...>
                      > To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 10:55 PM
                      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs
                      >
                      >
                      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markgofast@h...> wrote:
                      > > > I saw a TV show involving moonshine. The 'shiners were collecting /
                      > > > storing / transportating their product in common plastic milk jugs.
                      > > >
                      > > > Maybe the abv wasn't that high - it looked like a pot still with a
                      > > > long worm coil. But I thought that plastic milk jugs made poor
                      > > > containers because of the reaction between the plastic and the
                      > > > alcohol.
                      > > >
                      > > > What's the deal?
                      > >
                      > > Yep, sounds fine to me if they are made from the same materials as NZ
                      > > ones. Ours are made from HDPE (high density polyethylene). Another
                      > > suitable plastic is PET (polyethylene terephthalate) as used for
                      > > softdrink and juice bottles and other products.
                      > >
                      > > Of course, many say that plastic should never be allowed near your
                      > > alcohol so ultimately you will have to decide for yourself!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                      > > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Deze email is gecontroleerd door CAIWAY Internet Virusvrij.
                      > > Voor meer informatie, zie http://www.caiway.nl/
                      >
                      >
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                    • deanthms
                      ... Hi mark what was the name of the program I want to see if i can get it in the land of oz or if need be on the net. Thanks Dean
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jul 4, 2004
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                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markgofast@h...> wrote:
                        > I saw a TV show involving moonshine. The 'shiners were collecting /
                        > storing / transportating their product in common plastic milk jugs.
                        >
                        > Maybe the abv wasn't that high - it looked like a pot still with a
                        > long worm coil. But I thought that plastic milk jugs made poor
                        > containers because of the reaction between the plastic and the
                        > alcohol.
                        >
                        > What's the deal?

                        Hi mark what was the name of the program I want to see if i can get it
                        in the land of oz or if need be on the net.
                        Thanks

                        Dean
                      • Zarklan Zhaphedoix
                        One reason that the distillate was coming out so fast might be the size of the operation. Some moonshiners use 500+ gallon boilers. I have seen pictures of
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
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                          One reason that the distillate was coming out so fast might be the size of the operation. Some moonshiners use 500+ gallon boilers. I have seen pictures of an octopus like still where many boilers fed a single worm.



                          Rana Pipiens <ranawater@...> wrote:
                          Mark, I saw that same History Channel documentary and thought the same thing. I think they said that the product was 160 proof too and I think that would mean a second time through the pot still. Notice how fast the distillate was coming out? Someone on a homebrewing site pointed out that the same channel has another documentary called "Distillers" which will air in the US on July 12. I'm not sure of the time. By the way do you agree that that was an interesting show? Rana

                          Mark <markgofast@...> wrote:I saw a TV show involving moonshine. The 'shiners were collecting /
                          storing / transportating their product in common plastic milk jugs.

                          Maybe the abv wasn't that high - it looked like a pot still with a
                          long worm coil. But I thought that plastic milk jugs made poor
                          containers because of the reaction between the plastic and the
                          alcohol.

                          What's the deal?





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                        • tmdellinger
                          ... for testing specific gravity with hydrometer at normal beer and wine %abvs that started to dissolve at high % when checking distillate with an
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
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                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Rana Pipiens <ranawater@y...>
                            wrote:
                            > Josh, I think that the concern is with high abv. I had a cylinder
                            for testing specific gravity with hydrometer at normal beer and wine
                            %abvs that started to dissolve at high % when checking distillate with
                            an alcoholmetmeter. Rana
                            >

                            At the laboratory where I work, we buy 200 Proof ethanol, and
                            it comes in HDPE (high density polyethylene) containers with
                            the little "2" recycling symbol on the bottom.

                            My feeling is that high-volume moonshine operations could
                            make much worse decisions about what to ship their product in
                            than food-grade polyethyhlene.

                            Tim Dellinger
                          • linw992003
                            ... 200 proof! I think that answers the question about HDPE! Cheers, Lindsay.
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tmdellinger" <tmdellinger@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              > At the laboratory where I work, we buy 200 Proof ethanol, and
                              > it comes in HDPE (high density polyethylene) containers with
                              > the little "2" recycling symbol on the bottom.
                              >
                              > My feeling is that high-volume moonshine operations could
                              > make much worse decisions about what to ship their product in
                              > than food-grade polyethyhlene.
                              >
                              > Tim Dellinger

                              200 proof! I think that answers the question about HDPE!

                              Cheers, Lindsay.
                            • Rana Pipiens
                              Thanks Tim. I m looking for some items and will look for the symbols you mentioned at a lab supplier. Rana tmdellinger wrote:--- In
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
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                                Thanks Tim. I'm looking for some items and will look for the symbols you mentioned at a lab supplier. Rana
                                tmdellinger <tmdellinger@...> wrote:--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Rana Pipiens <ranawater@y...>
                                wrote:
                                > Josh, I think that the concern is with high abv. I had a cylinder
                                for testing specific gravity with hydrometer at normal beer and wine
                                %abvs that started to dissolve at high % when checking distillate with
                                an alcoholmetmeter. Rana
                                >

                                At the laboratory where I work, we buy 200 Proof ethanol, and
                                it comes in HDPE (high density polyethylene) containers with
                                the little "2" recycling symbol on the bottom.

                                My feeling is that high-volume moonshine operations could
                                make much worse decisions about what to ship their product in
                                than food-grade polyethyhlene.

                                Tim Dellinger



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                              • Andrew Forsberg
                                Hi Tim, Except you wouldn t drink that ethanol, even after diluting it, would you? Or would you? What s the shelf life for pure ethanol in hdpe? Cheers Andrew
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
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                                  Hi Tim,

                                  Except you wouldn't drink that ethanol, even after diluting it, would
                                  you? Or would you?

                                  What's the shelf life for pure ethanol in hdpe?

                                  Cheers
                                  Andrew

                                  >At the laboratory where I work, we buy 200 Proof ethanol, and
                                  >it comes in HDPE (high density polyethylene) containers with
                                  >the little "2" recycling symbol on the bottom.
                                  >
                                  >My feeling is that high-volume moonshine operations could
                                  >make much worse decisions about what to ship their product in
                                  >than food-grade polyethyhlene.
                                  >
                                  >Tim Dellinger
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • tmdellinger
                                  ... would ... Ummm.... why not? It s pure ethanol. If there were any impurities in there, then they might negatively effect our experiments. Only the stuff
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
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                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Forsberg <andrew@u...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Hi Tim,
                                    >
                                    > Except you wouldn't drink that ethanol, even after diluting it,
                                    would
                                    > you? Or would you?

                                    Ummm.... why not? It's pure ethanol. If there were any
                                    impurities in there, then they might negatively effect our
                                    experiments.

                                    Only the stuff for sale at the hardware store has benzene,
                                    methanol, etc. in it.

                                    >
                                    > What's the shelf life for pure ethanol in hdpe?
                                    >

                                    I have no idea... the bottles don't list a shelf life. I assume
                                    it's years and years, as long as the cap stays sealed and
                                    you store it in a cool, dark place.

                                    The ethanol bottles are a little bit thicker than your standard
                                    milk jug, but I assume that's to prevent breakage. Flammable
                                    liquid spills are a little more dangerous than spilled milk.

                                    Tim Dellinger
                                  • Andrew Forsberg
                                    ... I remember reading somewhere about how you can t reliably ferment drinks like mead over a long period of time in plastic because the material is slightly
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      >>What's the shelf life for pure ethanol in hdpe?
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >I have no idea... the bottles don't list a shelf life. I assume
                                      >it's years and years, as long as the cap stays sealed and
                                      >you store it in a cool, dark place.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      I remember reading somewhere about how you can't reliably ferment drinks
                                      like mead over a long period of time in plastic because the material is
                                      slightly porous.

                                      Ahh, I found it -- page 14 of the Compleat Distiller: 'Glass is
                                      especially recommended because it's impervious to oxygen. A plastic
                                      container would allow significant amounts of oxygen to diffuse through
                                      the walls during the very long, quiet fementation traditional to mead.'

                                      Not that that's the last word on the subject, and of course not all
                                      plastics are made equal! However 100% alc would turn into 96% over a
                                      period of time *if* hdpe were porous. If that is acceptable for some lab
                                      experiment purposes, then perhaps so would small amounts of hdpe leached
                                      into the solvent.

                                      Cheers
                                      Andrew
                                    • Larry Bump
                                      ... Pretty much anything is porous to *something*. You are asking the wrong question; How large is an alcohol molecule? How large is an oxygen atom? HDPE can
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Andrew Forsberg wrote:

                                        > However 100% alc would turn into 96% over a
                                        > period of time *if* hdpe were porous. If that is acceptable for some lab
                                        > experiment purposes, then perhaps so would small amounts of hdpe leached
                                        > into the solvent.

                                        Pretty much anything is porous to *something*.
                                        You are asking the wrong question;
                                        How large is an alcohol molecule?
                                        How large is an oxygen atom?

                                        HDPE can let oxygen into the brew, which is bad for mead. It does not
                                        let the ethanol out.

                                        Larry
                                      • Andrew Forsberg
                                        ... I wasn t thinking about letting ethanol out -- more about letting moisture (i.e., water) in. H2O is smaller than ethanol, but larger than oxygen. So it s
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          >Pretty much anything is porous to *something*.
                                          >You are asking the wrong question;
                                          >How large is an alcohol molecule?
                                          >How large is an oxygen atom?
                                          >
                                          >HDPE can let oxygen into the brew, which is bad for mead. It does not
                                          >let the ethanol out.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          I wasn't thinking about letting ethanol out -- more about letting
                                          moisture (i.e., water) in. H2O is smaller than ethanol, but larger than
                                          oxygen. So it's reasonable to expect the abv to drop over time.

                                          At any rate, re: toxic substances in hdpe -- a quick google found this
                                          where a scientest suggests that it's not so much the hdpe istelf you
                                          should look to for in cases of ethanol contanimation, but the catalyst
                                          residue from the manufacture of hdpe:
                                          http://www.ivstandards.com/tech/advice/stability/12-03.asp

                                          <quote>
                                          Robert and his associates were working on a health problem that he
                                          assumed was caused by an unidentified contaminant in ethanol. The
                                          ethanol was 96%, shipped in 50 gallon HDPE barrels, and then diluted
                                          with water to 36% for drinking. Robert suggested a possible source for a
                                          toxic contaminant might be a substance in the polyethylene matrix. He
                                          asked Paul for any suggestions of what substances present in HDPE could
                                          be leached out by 96% ethanol.

                                          Paul Gaines answers:
                                          *RE: Contaminants of Ethanol in HDPE*
                                          Dear Robert,

                                          Hopefully the following will be of help in your investigation:

                                          1) Trace metals from the catalyst residue. HDPE is prepared by a
                                          catalytic process where the catalyst is incorporated (entrapped) in the
                                          final product. The catalyst is typically an alumina or alumina/silica
                                          based catalyst with a mixture of Ti, and Mg chlorides (Ziegler-Natta
                                          type catalyst) *plus* other elements. Therefore look for trace metals
                                          such as Si, Al, Ti, Mg, Cr, Zn, Fe, etc. ICP-OES is a good technique to
                                          use for both qualitative and quantitative purposes.

                                          2) If the drum has a 'color' then a dye or pigment is used. Take a
                                          sample of the drum HDPE and ash it in a Pt crucible by first igniting
                                          the HDPE with a propane flame and then taking the ash up to 500 °C in a
                                          muffle furnace. If there is no ash then a dye is the color agent. The
                                          presence of an ash that has the color of the drum is an indication of a
                                          pigment. In the case of a pigment the use of EDXRF can identify the
                                          elemental components and indicate the pigment used. Many pigments
                                          contain toxic elements such as As, Pb, Sb, and Cd. If an organic dye is
                                          used then extraction of the HDPE with a more non-polar solvent (such as
                                          methylene chloride) and identification by molecular spectroscopy
                                          (UV/VIS, IR and NMR) is adequate for identification (i.e., current data
                                          bases may allow for identification by IR alone).

                                          In summary, catalyst residues and certain inorganic pigments should be
                                          of concern. Please note that contaminants do not have to be soluble
                                          (i.e., biological systems can be poisoned by particulate matter when
                                          ingested as could be the case with inorganic pigments and catalyst
                                          residuals). Organic dyes may have long term health problems but are less
                                          likely to be a problem.
                                          </quote>

                                          Cheers
                                          Andrew
                                        • Larry Bump
                                          ... Hmm. I have never seen alcohol or water migrate through HDPE, but diesel does readily. ... That was quite good, thanks. People forget just what could
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jul 5, 2004
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Andrew Forsberg wrote:

                                            > I wasn't thinking about letting ethanol out -- more about letting
                                            > moisture (i.e., water) in. H2O is smaller than ethanol, but larger than
                                            > oxygen. So it's reasonable to expect the abv to drop over time.

                                            Hmm. I have never seen alcohol or water migrate through HDPE, but
                                            diesel does readily.


                                            > At any rate, re: toxic substances in hdpe -- a quick google found this
                                            > where a scientest suggests that it's not so much the hdpe istelf you
                                            > should look to for in cases of ethanol contanimation, but the catalyst
                                            > residue from the manufacture of hdpe:
                                            > http://www.ivstandards.com/tech/advice/stability/12-03.asp

                                            That was quite good, thanks. People forget just what could contaminate
                                            and ruin their "stuff".

                                            Larry
                                          • the1foy
                                            ... Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea where they got their information? Because I can t find any listing for a Distillers show on the 12th, or any
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jul 6, 2004
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              > Someone on a homebrewing site pointed out that the same channel
                                              >has another documentary called "Distillers" which will air in the
                                              >US on July 12. I'm not sure of the time. By the way do you agree
                                              >that that was an interesting show? Rana
                                              >

                                              Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea where they got their
                                              information? Because I can't find any listing for a Distillers show
                                              on the 12th, or any day near, and would really like to catch it if
                                              it's coming on.
                                            • Rana Pipiens
                                              I ve e-mailed the person who posted the announcemnet to find out his source and what time it is airing and will let you know when he answers. He did say that
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jul 6, 2004
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I've e-mailed the person who posted the announcemnet to find out his source and what time it is airing and will let you know when he answers. He did say that it was part of the "Modern Marvels" series. Rana

                                                the1foy <the1foy@...> wrote:> Someone on a homebrewing site pointed out that the same channel
                                                >has another documentary called "Distillers" which will air in the
                                                >US on July 12. I'm not sure of the time. By the way do you agree
                                                >that that was an interesting show? Rana
                                                >

                                                Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea where they got their
                                                information? Because I can't find any listing for a Distillers show
                                                on the 12th, or any day near, and would really like to catch it if
                                                it's coming on.



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                                              • Don Rickles
                                                also there is a video in the store called Rumrunners, Moonshiners And Bootleggers that apparently aired on the Time Machine series. Description of the
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jul 6, 2004
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  also there is a video in the store called "Rumrunners, Moonshiners And Bootleggers " that apparently aired on the "Time Machine" series. Description of the video is "
                                                  They raced through the back roads and sailed the high seas for a decade, delivering a precious liquid cargo to a nation whose thirst could not be quenched by legislation. From high-toned clubs and hidden speakeasies to backwoods shacks, Prohibition did little to stop America's consumption of liquor--it just diverted the flow to different channels.

                                                  RUMRUNNERS, MOONSHINERS AND BOOTLEGGERS revisits the rough-and-tumble days of Prohibition for a candid, inside look at the legacy of this tumultuous time. Former Rumrunners talk of their run-ins with the Coast Guard, and we'll see how NASCAR owes its existence to the failed attempt to dry out the nation. Authors like Philip P. Mason (Rumrunning and the Roaring Twenties) and Gary Regan (The Book of Bourbon) provide a historical perspective, while retired agents and prosecutors reflect on their difficult, dangerous and ultimately futile efforts to enforce a law that America clearly did not support.

                                                  Filled with extraordinary tales, rarely-seen footage and a host of captivating photos, RUMRUNNERS, MOONSHINERS AND BOOTLEGGERS is an unforgettable portrait of one of the most compelling eras in our history."





                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: Rana Pipiens
                                                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 10:58 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs


                                                  I've e-mailed the person who posted the announcemnet to find out his source and what time it is airing and will let you know when he answers. He did say that it was part of the "Modern Marvels" series. Rana

                                                  the1foy <the1foy@...> wrote:> Someone on a homebrewing site pointed out that the same channel
                                                  >has another documentary called "Distillers" which will air in the
                                                  >US on July 12. I'm not sure of the time. By the way do you agree
                                                  >that that was an interesting show? Rana
                                                  >

                                                  Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea where they got their
                                                  information? Because I can't find any listing for a Distillers show
                                                  on the 12th, or any day near, and would really like to catch it if
                                                  it's coming on.



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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Don Rickles
                                                  Oh, and one more called The prohibition Era description: It s remembered as a glamorous era of bootleggers, bathtub gin, illicit speakeasies and Al
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jul 6, 2004
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Oh, and one more called "The prohibition Era" description:
                                                    "
                                                    It's remembered as a glamorous era of bootleggers, bathtub gin, illicit speakeasies and Al Capone's whiskey-fueled empire. Journey from the mining towns of Kansas to the rum-running island of St. Pierre to learn the real, unvarnished story of Prohibition.

                                                    Take a fascinating look at the saloon-smashing Carrie Nation, the teetotalling tycoon Henry Ford and lawyer-turned-bootlegger George Remus. Discover how Prohibition's first President, Warren G. Harding, served cocktails in the White House. And meet Al Capone's oldest brother a successful enforcement agent in Nebraska!

                                                    Filled with the evocative sounds of "Sweet Georgia Brown," "Stompin' at the Savoy" and Duke Ellington's toe-tapping "It Don't Mean a Thing if it Ain't Got That Swing," THE PROHIBITION ERA is a stirring trip through one of American history's most uninhibited times."



                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: Rana Pipiens
                                                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 10:58 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs


                                                    I've e-mailed the person who posted the announcemnet to find out his source and what time it is airing and will let you know when he answers. He did say that it was part of the "Modern Marvels" series. Rana

                                                    the1foy <the1foy@...> wrote:> Someone on a homebrewing site pointed out that the same channel
                                                    >has another documentary called "Distillers" which will air in the
                                                    >US on July 12. I'm not sure of the time. By the way do you agree
                                                    >that that was an interesting show? Rana
                                                    >

                                                    Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea where they got their
                                                    information? Because I can't find any listing for a Distillers show
                                                    on the 12th, or any day near, and would really like to catch it if
                                                    it's coming on.



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                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Rana Pipiens
                                                    O.K., the scheduling for Distillers on the History Channel has been changed twice and is now scheduled for Wednesday August 4at around 7 or 8 PM. The video
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jul 7, 2004
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      O.K., the scheduling for "Distillers" on the History Channel has been changed twice and is now scheduled for Wednesday August 4at around 7 or 8 PM. The video you are mentioning is the show I was talking about in my original post. Rana

                                                      Don Rickles <drickles37388@...> wrote:also there is a video in the store called "Rumrunners, Moonshiners And Bootleggers " that apparently aired on the "Time Machine" series. Description of the video is "
                                                      They raced through the back roads and sailed the high seas for a decade, delivering a precious liquid cargo to a nation whose thirst could not be quenched by legislation. From high-toned clubs and hidden speakeasies to backwoods shacks, Prohibition did little to stop America's consumption of liquor--it just diverted the flow to different channels.

                                                      RUMRUNNERS, MOONSHINERS AND BOOTLEGGERS revisits the rough-and-tumble days of Prohibition for a candid, inside look at the legacy of this tumultuous time. Former Rumrunners talk of their run-ins with the Coast Guard, and we'll see how NASCAR owes its existence to the failed attempt to dry out the nation. Authors like Philip P. Mason (Rumrunning and the Roaring Twenties) and Gary Regan (The Book of Bourbon) provide a historical perspective, while retired agents and prosecutors reflect on their difficult, dangerous and ultimately futile efforts to enforce a law that America clearly did not support.

                                                      Filled with extraordinary tales, rarely-seen footage and a host of captivating photos, RUMRUNNERS, MOONSHINERS AND BOOTLEGGERS is an unforgettable portrait of one of the most compelling eras in our history."





                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: Rana Pipiens
                                                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 10:58 AM
                                                      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: milk jugs


                                                      I've e-mailed the person who posted the announcemnet to find out his source and what time it is airing and will let you know when he answers. He did say that it was part of the "Modern Marvels" series. Rana

                                                      the1foy <the1foy@...> wrote:> Someone on a homebrewing site pointed out that the same channel
                                                      >has another documentary called "Distillers" which will air in the
                                                      >US on July 12. I'm not sure of the time. By the way do you agree
                                                      >that that was an interesting show? Rana
                                                      >

                                                      Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea where they got their
                                                      information? Because I can't find any listing for a Distillers show
                                                      on the 12th, or any day near, and would really like to catch it if
                                                      it's coming on.



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                                                    • tmdellinger
                                                      ... been changed twice and is now scheduled for Wednesday August 4at around 7 or 8 PM. The video you are mentioning is the show I was talking about in my
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jul 7, 2004
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Rana Pipiens <ranawater@y...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        > O.K., the scheduling for "Distillers" on the History Channel has
                                                        been changed twice and is now scheduled for Wednesday August 4at
                                                        around 7 or 8 PM. The video you are mentioning is the show I was
                                                        talking about in my original post. Rana
                                                        >

                                                        My latest source (got an email this morning) says that "Distillers"
                                                        is scheduled for:

                                                        THE CORRECTED DATE: WEDNESDAY, JULY 14, 2004 at 7pm in most cities:
                                                        check your local listings to be sure.



                                                        It looks to me like they're shuffling things around a lot, so I
                                                        personally won't believe anything I hear until I actually see the
                                                        program air.

                                                        Tim Dellinger
                                                      • Rana Pipiens
                                                        I agree Tim. I got the July 14th date and then later got the August 4th date. But as you said check your schedules. Rana tmdellinger
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Jul 7, 2004
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          I agree Tim. I got the July 14th date and then later got the August 4th date. But as you said check your schedules. Rana

                                                          tmdellinger <tmdellinger@...> wrote:--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Rana Pipiens <ranawater@y...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          > O.K., the scheduling for "Distillers" on the History Channel has
                                                          been changed twice and is now scheduled for Wednesday August 4at
                                                          around 7 or 8 PM. The video you are mentioning is the show I was
                                                          talking about in my original post. Rana
                                                          >

                                                          My latest source (got an email this morning) says that "Distillers"
                                                          is scheduled for:

                                                          THE CORRECTED DATE: WEDNESDAY, JULY 14, 2004 at 7pm in most cities:
                                                          check your local listings to be sure.



                                                          It looks to me like they're shuffling things around a lot, so I
                                                          personally won't believe anything I hear until I actually see the
                                                          program air.

                                                          Tim Dellinger



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