Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Agave Nectar or syrup Pulque-Mezcal-Tequila pruduction experiments

Expand Messages
  • acthegreatone
    Hi, Who ever is interested in experimentig with agave nectar or any syrups juices from the agave plan to make an alcoholic drik, please e-mail me, so that we
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 26, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi,

      Who ever is interested in experimentig with agave nectar or any
      syrups juices from the agave plan to make an alcoholic drik, please
      e-mail me, so that we can exchange information and or talk about
      such proccedures leading to the production of alcoholic beverages.

      I am currently starting to investigate , and will start experimentin
      in production of pulque, and then move on to mezcal. Pulque is not
      distilled, but when u distill it it becomes mezcal, and if it is
      made from agave azul and comes from Jalisco Mexico, it is Tequila.

      So, the only problem is obtaining the fermentable juices from teh
      agave plants that can be used for these experiments of mine. The
      agave nectar can be fermented into alcohol.

      anyways, pls email me personally acthegreatone@..., and we can
      discuss in detail, perhaps in yahoo messenger.
    • Matt SF
      ... AC, since there is precious little past experience in the group in this area, isn t it better to keep these discussions on the list for now? Please share
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 26, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 05:33:24PM -0000, acthegreatone wrote:
        > anyways, pls email me personally acthegreatone@..., and we can
        > discuss in detail, perhaps in yahoo messenger.

        AC, since there is precious little past experience in the group in this
        area, isn't it better to keep these discussions on the list for now?
        Please share any positive and negative experiences you encounter in this
        venture, we're all here to learn! :)

        For my part, I've posted all I know (which isn't much) on this pursuit of
        distilling from agave nectar. For now, we might look to Tarvus and his
        results since he has already learned from my mistake of making a must
        that is too high in sugars for a speedy fermentation.

        -Matt sf

        --
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      • Tarvus
        ... pursuit of ... his ... must ... For Matt SF, acthegreatone, and all others interested in the agave nectar experiment, Last night I mixed up my first batch
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 1, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Matt SF <spore@p...> wrote:
          > On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 05:33:24PM -0000, acthegreatone wrote:


          > For my part, I've posted all I know (which isn't much) on this
          pursuit of
          > distilling from agave nectar. For now, we might look to Tarvus and
          his
          > results since he has already learned from my mistake of making a
          must
          > that is too high in sugars for a speedy fermentation.

          For Matt SF, acthegreatone, and all others interested in the agave
          nectar experiment,

          Last night I mixed up my first batch of agave nectar wash. Learning
          from Matt's experience with a too high original gravity, I
          deliberately mixed mine into a more dilute solution. Matt had sent
          me a pdf file explaining in detail tequila production and the article
          stated that natural agave juice fermented out to about 6% abv, so
          that was what I was shooting for.

          Basicaly, I added 18 pounds (6 quarts) of agave nectar to 2 gallons
          of boiling water, removed from heat, stirred, then cooled by adding
          another 13 1/2 gallons of cold water. I split the wash into 2
          fermenters for ease of handling and to accomodate my initial plan of
          trying out 2 different yeasts (48 hr turbo and regular baker's
          yeast). I was uncertain, however, whether the agave must had
          sufficient yeast nutrients, and given the high cost of the nectar
          ($100 US for 6 quarts) I decided to play it safe and use the turbo
          yeast in both batches knowing it had nutrients included.

          My hydrometer reading showed the starting gravity at just under 6%
          potential (1.044), but that was not corrected for the still warm
          temperature of the wash. I estimate the corrected gravity would have
          been roughly 1.050 giving about 6 1/2% potential alcohol.

          Both fermenters are bubbling merrily away in my laundry room at this
          moment. Given the low starting gravity, the yeast used, and the
          ambient temperature inside, the fermentation should easily finish
          within 2 days. I'll keep the group updated!

          best regards,
          Tar
        • Matt SF
          ... great report Tar, thanks for the info. Also let us know how the flavor profile comes out with the turbo yeasts; i m worried they would sacrifice desirable
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 2, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 02:54:14PM -0000, Tarvus wrote:
            > ($100 US for 6 quarts) I decided to play it safe and use the turbo
            > yeast in both batches knowing it had nutrients included.
            >
            > My hydrometer reading showed the starting gravity at just under 6%
            > potential (1.044), but that was not corrected for the still warm
            > temperature of the wash. I estimate the corrected gravity would have
            > been roughly 1.050 giving about 6 1/2% potential alcohol.

            great report Tar, thanks for the info. Also let us know how the flavor
            profile comes out with the turbo yeasts; i'm worried they would sacrifice
            desirable organoleptics for higher alcohol. So for my next batch I'm
            going to try a wine yeast (probably Lalvin K1V-1116) and a proper
            nutrient balance.

            --
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
          • Paul William
            Where did you get the agave nectar from? - Paul
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 2, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Where did you get the agave nectar from? - Paul
            • Tarvus
              ... Sweet Cactus Farms. Here s a link... http://www.sweetcactusfarms.com/orders.htm Tar
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 3, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Paul William" <stihl056paul@y...>
                wrote:
                > Where did you get the agave nectar from? - Paul

                Sweet Cactus Farms. Here's a link...
                http://www.sweetcactusfarms.com/orders.htm

                Tar
              • Tarvus
                ... flavor ... sacrifice ... I m ... Hello everybody, Here s the agave nectar update: The agave fermentation finished out at .995 I ran the batch this
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 3, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Matt SF <spore@p...> wrote:

                  > great report Tar, thanks for the info. Also let us know how the
                  flavor
                  > profile comes out with the turbo yeasts; i'm worried they would
                  sacrifice
                  > desirable organoleptics for higher alcohol. So for my next batch
                  I'm
                  > going to try a wine yeast (probably Lalvin K1V-1116) and a proper
                  > nutrient balance.

                  Hello everybody,
                  Here's the agave nectar update:

                  The agave fermentation finished out at .995

                  I ran the batch this afternoon. I discarded about an ounce and a
                  half of foreshots then started collecting. I kept the first pint
                  separate, collected 3 quarts, then kept the last 3 pints separate in
                  pint jars. I chilled everything down to 60F in my freezer to be able
                  to get an accurate alcohol reading.

                  The first pint and the 3 quart jars were crystal clear when chilled,
                  but the last 3 pint jars were clouding. I opted to use one pint (the
                  least cloudy) from the last three and all the earlier clear stuff in
                  my batch. So I wound up with exactly one gallon which measured out
                  at 92% abv. I cut it back to 80 proof and as soon as I added the
                  water, I realized it was a mistake to include that last pint. The
                  whole batch clouded slightly - not bad, but not what I wanted
                  cosmetically. Obviously I let a bit too much of the tails come thru
                  and the fusils in that last pint are clouding. I deliberately made
                  the cut later than usual because I wanted to capture as much flavor
                  as possible. I must admit, the tequila tastes very good - very
                  smooth and sweet with that gentle bite good pure agave tequilas
                  have. I am dissapointed though that it is slightly cloudy. I will
                  probably re-distill it tomorrow and narrow the cut just a bit to
                  remove the cloudyness.

                  All in all, I am quite pleased with the results. The turbo yeast
                  allowed plenty of flavor to come through. I may experiment with
                  different yeasts in future batches though - just to see what impact
                  yeast selection has on flavor.

                  I was a bit dissapointed in yield. There must be some unfermentable
                  dextrines in the agave nectar since it finished fermenting at .995
                  whereas I usually finish at about .98 with a sugar wash and turbo
                  yeast.

                  Recommendations and lessons learned:
                  #1. The 5 gallon bucket is a better deal than ordering 6 quarts of
                  agave nectar. $200 per 20 quarts versus $100 for 6 quarts when
                  ordering jugs. Next time, I will go with a full bucket.

                  #2. Much of the flavor of tequila is in the heads. Be stingy with
                  how much of the heads you throw away.

                  #3. Don't try to stretch the run on the back side. Better to cut
                  tails too early than too late.

                  #4. 8 kg of agave nectar won't give you the same yield as 8 kg of
                  sugar.

                  #5. If you try the agave nectar route, it WILL make good tequila! :)

                  best regards,
                  Tar
                  sipping on a shot glass full of "El Mulo Blanco Mojo Tarquila" as he
                  types this message :-)
                • theholymackerel
                  Thankyou, God bless you, and thankyou again. Yer the first person I ve ever seen post about makin their own tequilla. Thanks for postin all the way through
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 3, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thankyou, God bless you, and thankyou again.

                    Yer the first person I've ever seen post about makin' their own
                    tequilla.

                    Thanks for postin' all the way through yer project. Ya got me
                    thinkin' now.

                    Are ya gonna drink it white and young, or aged and on oak? Please
                    let us all know what ya do, and how it comes out.

                    Best of luck, THM
                  • Tarvus
                    ... Glad you found the postings of value, THM! :) This batch I will drink as a silver. I may experiment in future batches with oak aging a reposado and anejo.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 3, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "theholymackerel"
                      <theholymackerel13@y...> wrote:
                      > Thankyou, God bless you, and thankyou again.
                      >
                      > Yer the first person I've ever seen post about makin' their own
                      > tequilla.
                      >
                      > Thanks for postin' all the way through yer project. Ya got me
                      > thinkin' now.
                      >
                      > Are ya gonna drink it white and young, or aged and on oak? Please
                      > let us all know what ya do, and how it comes out.
                      >

                      Glad you found the postings of value, THM! :)

                      This batch I will drink as a silver. I may experiment in future
                      batches with oak aging a reposado and anejo. I want to perfect the
                      tequila making basics first before worrying about oaking and aging,
                      though my personal preference in tequilas is for the reposados.

                      best regards,
                      Tar
                    • Matt SF
                      ... True, as Srs. Cruz and Alvarez-Jacobs detail, the main esters found in silver tequila were Ethyl Acetate (17.77%), Ethyl decanoate (2.78%), Ethyl lactate
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 3, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 01:17:01AM -0000, Tarvus wrote:
                        > #2. Much of the flavor of tequila is in the heads. Be stingy with
                        > how much of the heads you throw away.

                        True, as Srs. Cruz and Alvarez-Jacobs detail, the main esters found in
                        silver tequila were Ethyl Acetate (17.77%), Ethyl decanoate (2.78%), Ethyl
                        lactate (2.74%), Ethyl octanoate (1.92%), and Ethyl dodecanoate (.95%).

                        What's weird is that when talking about the esters they also say:
                        "Ethyl acetate has been reported to be the second most abundant compound
                        in tequila after isoamyl alcohol." Now the main isomer of isoamyl alcohol
                        (aka isobutyl carbinol aka fermentation amyl alcohol) is listed as having
                        a boiling point of 130.5 C ... are the pot stillers south of the border
                        really running their stills that hot and heavy to drive that compound
                        over in great abundance? But since I see references to it being a major
                        component of the group known as fusels, then I guess it does make sense.
                        Heck even Ethyl Decanoate has a bp of 117 C.

                        Congrats on your success! If I can get this whiskey mash to finish
                        fermenting and free up the bucket I'll try to play catch-up :)

                        -Matt sf


                        --
                        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      • Andrew Forsberg
                        ... Hi Matt, Are those meant to be percentages, or parts per million? 17.77% ethyl acetate sounds incredibly high. Don t you think? After all those esters it
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 3, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 15:10, Matt SF wrote:
                          > On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 01:17:01AM -0000, Tarvus wrote:
                          > > #2. Much of the flavor of tequila is in the heads. Be stingy with
                          > > how much of the heads you throw away.
                          >
                          > True, as Srs. Cruz and Alvarez-Jacobs detail, the main esters found in
                          > silver tequila were Ethyl Acetate (17.77%), Ethyl decanoate (2.78%), Ethyl
                          > lactate (2.74%), Ethyl octanoate (1.92%), and Ethyl dodecanoate (.95%).

                          Hi Matt,

                          Are those meant to be percentages, or parts per million? 17.77% ethyl
                          acetate sounds incredibly high. Don't you think? After all those esters
                          it sounds like there would be bugger all room left for ethanol and
                          water...

                          Not that I'm pretending to know much about tequila makeup or anything.
                          The figures just sounded odd. A ppm / percent confusion may explain why
                          those 130+ deg C BP compounds getting such high figures too.

                          Cheers
                          Andrew
                        • Matt SF
                          ... Hi Andrew-- yes the authors aren t entirely clear but it appears they are saying that those are the percentages found when you sample the family of esters
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 3, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 03:22:44PM +1300, Andrew Forsberg wrote:
                            > On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 15:10, Matt SF wrote:
                            > > True, as Srs. Cruz and Alvarez-Jacobs detail, the main esters found in
                            > > silver tequila were Ethyl Acetate (17.77%), Ethyl decanoate (2.78%), Ethyl
                            > > lactate (2.74%), Ethyl octanoate (1.92%), and Ethyl dodecanoate (.95%).
                            >
                            > Hi Matt,
                            >
                            > Are those meant to be percentages, or parts per million? 17.77% ethyl
                            > acetate sounds incredibly high. Don't you think? After all those esters
                            > it sounds like there would be bugger all room left for ethanol and
                            > water...

                            Hi Andrew--

                            yes the authors aren't entirely clear but it appears they are saying that
                            those are the percentages found when you sample the family of esters
                            alone. I'm assuming it's percentage by weight.

                            They are quoting this source, according to the bibliography:

                            Estarrón, M., T. Martín del Campo and R. Cosío.
                            1999. Identificación de los componentes volátiles que caracterizan la
                            huella cromatográfica distintiva de tequilas. Technical Report for Tequila
                            Herradura S.A.

                            I don't suppose anyone here has a copy of that on the shelf, eh? :)

                            Hmm interesting, I just found that if you search via Google using the
                            authors above, you can find a link with the pdf Tarvus and I have been
                            discussing. Funny how that works! ;)

                            -matt
                            --
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.